Difficulty: turn it up to 11

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iakiss
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Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby iakiss » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:10 am UTC

I enjoy playing most all kinds of video games from any and every genre i have no prefrance really i love them all. I do however love hard games more than any other. the more it makes me cuss, throw my controller, just turn off my console in anger the better. This is my list of games ive played personally that make me mad. And i want from you guys to list your own so we can compile the best list of SOB games ever. i would like to leave out games that are more annoying because of bad design or lack of it for that matter like superman 64 or the first Metal gear solid(fuck that game) my list IS NOT in any order its just as i think of them, NOT a ranking

1. Contra of course
2. Resident Evil 4 and 5 in professional
3. Call of Duty modern warfare 1 and 2 in veteran
3. Ninja Gaiden (all of them)
4. Devil May Cry 3
5. Halo odst in legendary
6. Battletoads
7. Mike tysons super punch out
8. Ghosts & Goblins(i havent played this one but i hear its real bad)
9. The legend of Zelda on nes
10. Guitar hero
11. Dead Space in hardest difficulty
12. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion turn that slider up all the way lol
13. There are some really tough achievements out there too list them as well

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby aion7 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:20 am UTC

iakiss wrote:2. Resident Evil 4 and 5 in professional
3. Call of Duty modern warfare 1 and 2 in veteran
5. Halo odst in legendary
10. Guitar hero
13. There are some really tough achievements out there too list them as well
NO.

If you want to have a rhythm game up there, Guitar hero is definitely not the hardest one. For FPS' the same goes for Fish and Halo. Resi 4/5 gamebreaking strat: run away, shoot, repeat.

Also, needs more bullet hell.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Toeofdoom » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:30 am UTC

Also needs more ridiculously punishing roguelikes.

Gravitron 2 is a bit of the old arcade style spaceship flying thing difficulty, pretty fun until you get half way in to the easier campaign. Crysis gets a mention for changing enemy languages, even if it isn't ridiculously hard.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Avelion » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:01 pm UTC

0. Touhou

Look it up on youtube if you've never played it.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:35 pm UTC

If you want a third person shooter on there, try Lost Planet on Extreme. Data posts are removed and your T-Eng depletes stupidly fast, and even more so when you jump and dodge.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Jorpho » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:38 pm UTC

iakiss wrote:i would like to leave out games that are more annoying because of bad design or lack of it for that matter like superman 64 or the first Metal gear solid(fuck that game)
That is a pretty fine distinction.

1. Contra of course
9. The legend of Zelda on nes
Also no.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Phen » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:00 pm UTC

I'm narrowly resisting making snide comments.

Anyhow, Dorf Fortress?
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Chen » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:23 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
1. Contra of course
9. The legend of Zelda on nes
Also no.


I don't know about The Legend of Zelda (which was fairly straightforward) but the second one on NES was a pain (the Adventure of Link or whatever it was). And contra, without the 99 lives cheat was pretty damn unforgiving.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby diotimajsh » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:14 am UTC

In my experience, NetHack and Super Ghosts'n'Ghouls.

People also like to list some of the hacked Mario ROMs for these things. That's usually a different kind of hard, though.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:49 am UTC

Never played it myself, but I have a friend who swears System Shock 2 is painfully difficult.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Chicostick » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:02 am UTC

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned:

I Wanna Be The Guy.

Not only is it difficult, but it's free! And certain parts of it may cause you to lose your sanity after awhile... but in a good way.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Jorpho » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:12 am UTC

Chen wrote:And contra, without the 99 lives cheat was pretty damn unforgiving.
For starters, there is no 99 lives cheat, only a 30 lives cheat.

And secondly, it really just takes practice. The same can be said for a lot of other games - and Contra takes a lot less practice than some of those.

Ikagura suddenly springs to mind.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby ProZac » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:54 pm UTC

I can say I like games of this same fashion, but some of the ones listed in the original post don't fit the bill. Those have already been declared though.

Ninja Gaiden 2 on 360 isn't really the same either. While when failing in the first, it always felt like it was a mistake made on your part. The second one, certain sets of enemies bosses were just cheap and could result in deaths that you could do nothing about.

I would give Contra the benefit of being on the list. The game is designed in that frustratingly difficult fashion, and there's a certain skill set that goes with being good at the games. On top of this, some of the challenges in Contra 4 (on DS) were kinda hard, and I will say completing the full Contra: Shattered Soldier game (on PS2), which requires no deaths and killing all enemies is friggin' hard.

Also, Ikaruga (just for being a well known Bullet Hell) and I Wanna Be The Guy definitely have to be on there.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Texas_Ben » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:41 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:Never played it myself, but I have a friend who swears System Shock 2 is painfully difficult.

I tried it a few years ago. I don't think it's even possible to play the game as anything other than the techie class, since your weapons break after like 2 shots and he's the only one that can fix them. But since you dumped all your stat points into fixin' skills, you are stuck using basic weapons like the pistol and shotgun.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Phrozt » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:15 pm UTC

ODST on firefight has actually pissed me off more than most games... but in a fun way. Nothing like the feeling of a hammer guy coming at you w/black eye on and you only have half a clip left in a pistol.

Of course L4D has provided quite a few as well... horde overwhelming you and whatnot.

Lately, League of Legends has been pissing me off for a lot of fun as well.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby iakiss » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:21 pm UTC

Yea firefight can get very hard

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Cecilff2 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:58 pm UTC

iakiss wrote:12. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion turn that slider up all the way lol


Not really. Magic is so overpowered. But then again it is magic.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:42 pm UTC

Chicostick wrote:I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned:

I Wanna Be The Guy.

Not only is it difficult, but it's free! And certain parts of it may cause you to lose your sanity after awhile... but in a good way.

I posted this on another forum, and the first five replies were "FUCK THIS GAME!"

It has a sequel that I haven't played yet called I Wanna Save The Kids.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Restartagain » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:Also, Ikaruga (just for being a well known Bullet Hell) and I Wanna Be The Guy definitely have to be on there.

Urgh... CAVE lives off destroyed controllers and crushed gamer spirits. My PS2 can attest to that.
Personally, By the time they got to Mushihime-sama I think the designers just gave up and said: 'Okay, just think of any pretty and seizure-inducing pattern you can find and throw it in.'
As for I Wanna Be The Guy, I just flat-out gave up in about an hour or so.

Then there's the massive memorization routine enforced by R-type series...
I don't know if this counts or not... but Warcraft II (yes, the second one), against CPU, on maximum game speed. I know of no other games where game speed settings has such a profound effect on the AI.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Midnight » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:53 am UTC

seconding battletoads.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby BlackSails » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:53 am UTC

Tetris! Ive never beaten it!

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Kag
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Kag » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:20 am UTC

I Wanna Be The Guy isn't THAT hard, you just have to be determined.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby psion » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:12 am UTC

Devil May Cry 1, God Hand, and God of War 2. Hardest difficulty of course.

I couldn't say Oblivion is hard, there's so many exploits in that game, difficulty slider or not. I.E. play a thief, steal, get a chameleon suit (doesn't even need to be 100%) and game over.

IWBTG IS hard, to say it doesn't deserve to be mentioned because it's finishable is ridiculous.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Jorpho » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:37 am UTC

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NintendoHard

Oh wait, we're not supposed to link there, are we?

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby CogDissident » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:45 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:Tetris! Ive never beaten it!

I hope thats irony. Tetris just keeps getting faster and faster until the drop rate is such that you can only ever drop pieces in the center even if every piece is always the ideal piece and you have infinite time to plan out future moves. Thats not difficulty, because for something to be difficult it has to be possible to complete.

My entry into this list is Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall. I've never seen an RPG that difficult ever before, not even Gothic 1 was that hard.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Cynical Idealist » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:54 am UTC

Phen wrote: Dorf Fortress?

This. Once it becomes easy, you can turn the difficulty up to over 9000 with some reasonably simple modding.

diotimajsh wrote:NetHack

Also, this.

Chicostick wrote:I Wanna Be The Guy.

And this.


Also, Ninja Gaiden (NES version)
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby aion7 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:19 am UTC

CogDissident wrote:
BlackSails wrote:Tetris! Ive never beaten it!

I hope thats irony. Tetris just keeps getting faster and faster until the drop rate is such that you can only ever drop pieces in the center even if every piece is always the ideal piece and you have infinite time to plan out future moves. Thats not difficulty, because for something to be difficult it has to be possible to complete.

My entry into this list is Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall. I've never seen an RPG that difficult ever before, not even Gothic 1 was that hard.

I believe you mean "sarcasm" and not "irony".

@Jorpho: I am immune to that link, as I have already read that page multiple times. HA!
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Shadic » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:35 am UTC

iakiss wrote:9. The legend of Zelda on nes

No.

Well, not if you want difficulty other than "OH HAE, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE I'M GOING. WAIT, SHOULD I BURN A RANDOM BUSH!?"

If you want combat difficulty, Zelda II's the game.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Patch » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:38 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:Oh wait, we're not supposed to link there, are we?


No, we are not. Also, I want the last half hour of my life back.

Back OT, more deliciously harsh, but fair, games:
'Splosion Man (Co-op mode)
Shadow of the Colossus
Mega Man 2

And two that I highly enjoyed, but that skirt the edges of being cheap:
Odin Sphere
Lucidity

The cool thing about 'Splosion Man co-op is that, thanks to some tight multi-player mechanics and level design, it is impossible to progress in the game unless all players have mastered the challenges it presents. That "high" you get when you've mastered an especially difficult bit, and you can feel your nerves singing with released tension and pride at having done something hard? So much better when it's a shared experience ...

Also, why has nobody mentioned Demon's Souls? I don't have a PS3, and therefore haven't played it, but I hear tell that it just about perfectly hits the "harsh, but fair" spot.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:12 am UTC

Patch wrote:'Splosion Man (Co-op mode)

Pfft, you're just playing with incompetent people who can't master the intricacies of moving and 'sploding at the same time. Or maybe that's just two of my friends. Admittedly, one of them I've banned from ever playing platformers because he's that bad at them.

Then again, we still haven't gotten to part 3 in co-op yet, so it may get demonic at that point.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Kag » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:18 am UTC

psion wrote:IWBTG IS hard, to say it doesn't deserve to be mentioned because it's finishable is ridiculous.


No, once you know where all the traps are, only some of the bosses and like 6 rooms are actually difficult. You just have to accept that the only way to find traps is to be killed by them repeatedly.

Of course, since you spend so much time dying, by the time you return to someplace you've been, you'll likely have forgotten how to do it, and die 100-something times there again.

I'd say La Mulana is about a trillion times worse, since by the Hell Temple, you pretty much will not die, but fucking up could send you any number of obnoxious places where you have to do even more difficult things.

Also, Radiant Silvergun.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Patch » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:19 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
Patch wrote:'Splosion Man (Co-op mode)

Pfft, you're just playing with incompetent people who can't master the intricacies of moving and 'sploding at the same time.
[/quote]

That would be silly. Most of the fun lies in playing with competent people who can match the challenge with you ;-)

Amnesiasoft wrote:Then again, we still haven't gotten to part 3 in co-op yet, so it may get demonic at that point.


Part 3 is where they figure you a) have probably learned how to play and b) probably like the game, on account of playing that far, which means that they really start to throw the fun stuff at you. The nice bit is that it gets hard without ever getting cheap -- it's possible to successfully navigate almost every level on the first try, if you don't make mistakes, and are quick enough to catch on to the puzzles (of course, you end up dying a lot, because everything requires precise timing, and some of the puzzles are fiendish).

One more game to add to the list:
Spelunky. So much crunchy gaming goodness, so many ways to die horribly. (It's free, too, so if you like platformers, roguelikes and/or metroidvania games, there's pretty much no excuse not to have played it -- surprised it hasn't made the collective list yet.)

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby diotimajsh » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:45 am UTC

aion7 wrote:I believe you mean "sarcasm" and not "irony".
Sarcasm is a specific type of irony, so if CogDissident erred, it was on the side of being too general.

And, actually, I think irony is a more appropriate word for that context, since sarcasm is usually sharp/cutting or aimed at belittling a specific person/establishment/entity, neither of which did BlackSails's comment appear to be.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby psion » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:10 am UTC

Kag wrote:
psion wrote:IWBTG IS hard, to say it doesn't deserve to be mentioned because it's finishable is ridiculous.


No, once you know where all the traps are, only some of the bosses and like 6 rooms are actually difficult. You just have to accept that the only way to find traps is to be killed by them repeatedly.

So, it's just like Battletoads? And Ikaruga? And Contra? And every other game listed here? Ah, I see why it doesn't belong.
In each of these games, there's a trap that the player is unaware of that will kill or impede them. The nature of the trap shouldn't determine the game's difficulty, but rather the difficulty should lie in the execution of avoiding the trap. Bullet patterns in Ikaruga, enemy spawns in FPS/TPS, Battletoads snakes, enemy abilities in several genres, and apples in IWBTG.
That's why you won't see something like a Final Fantasy game on a difficult games list, because even though there's traps, the execution is quite simple.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby SiC » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:42 am UTC

Are we only talking action games?

I found Day of the Tentacle, and the like pretty tricky. Back before walkthroughs all over the internet.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby stormbringer_951 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:28 pm UTC

M0ar roguelikes? My list of difficult games

1. Rogue
2. Nethack
3. Deus Ex (realistic)
4. Thief (expert)

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby ProZac » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:49 pm UTC

psion wrote:
Kag wrote:
psion wrote:IWBTG IS hard, to say it doesn't deserve to be mentioned because it's finishable is ridiculous.

No, once you know where all the traps are, only some of the bosses and like 6 rooms are actually difficult. You just have to accept that the only way to find traps is to be killed by them repeatedly.

So, it's just like Battletoads? And Ikaruga? And Contra? And every other game listed here? Ah, I see why it doesn't belong.
In each of these games, there's a trap that the player is unaware of that will kill or impede them. The nature of the trap shouldn't determine the game's difficulty, but rather the difficulty should lie in the execution of avoiding the trap. Bullet patterns in Ikaruga, enemy spawns in FPS/TPS, Battletoads snakes, enemy abilities in several genres, and apples in IWBTG.


Wrong. Having beaten IWBTG, there are many traps in that game that are unavoidable if you don't know they are there. There's not really enough reaction time to save you. You can eventually learn to predict traps, but you could be wrong and get screwed over anyway.

Now in Contra, Battletoads, Ikaruga, etc you are given enough time to respond. Sure, it's helpful if you know what is coming ahead of time, but it is by no means neccessary.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby Decker » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:55 pm UTC

psion wrote:Devil May Cry 1

The one game that made me feel awesome when I played it.
For me, the first Phantom fight was down to the wire, with both of us having just a little health left. I was all the way across the room when he starts charging a fireball.
So I activate Devil Mode, ran up to his face and slashed just as there was a big explosion.
I'm pretty sure I swatted it back down his throat.
Then there was the time a Deathscythe threw me up into the air with a whirlwind, and as he flew up to swat me, I smashed his mask with a well placed slash on the way down.
There were so many close calls in that game and I had a fantastic time playing it.
I was angry with my friend. I told my wrath. My wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe. I told it not. My wrath did grow.

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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby mike-l » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:32 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:
Wrong. Having beaten IWBTG, there are many traps in that game that are unavoidable if you don't know they are there. There's not really enough reaction time to save you. You can eventually learn to predict traps, but you could be wrong and get screwed over anyway.

Now in Contra, Battletoads, Ikaruga, etc you are given enough time to respond. Sure, it's helpful if you know what is coming ahead of time, but it is by no means neccessary.


It takes one death to learn where a trap is though, and (unless you're playing through the game for the first time on hard/impossible) you spawn right back in the same spot, so you lose minimal time figuring out where the traps are. That hasn't stopped me from dying thousands of times AFTER I knew where the traps were.
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Re: Difficulty: turn it up to 11

Postby psion » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:43 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:Wrong. Having beaten IWBTG, there are many traps in that game that are unavoidable if you don't know they are there. There's not really enough reaction time to save you. You can eventually learn to predict traps, but you could be wrong and get screwed over anyway.

If all the apples/spikes/etc have little arrows on them that signified they were there and which way they were going to go it'd barely impact the difficulty of the game. It doesn't take people weeks to finish the game because they can't remember where the traps are from one minute to the next.
Also, battletoads has several parts that are impossible to predict as well: spikes that are offscreen, that wheel that chases you, and probably several more I can't think of.
Last edited by psion on Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:55 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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