SMAC Carbon on Mac OS 10.6 (problem with saving progress)

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Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:17 am UTC

This might be of interest to you. You'd need Civ Iv and its expansions (which ARE good), but someone has modded the game back to life under the form of Civ Iv (w/ apparently new things)
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Re: SMAC fans, over here!

Postby Jessica » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:46 pm UTC

I see.
I think I shall get those expansions then.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby aion7 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm UTC

I may need to buy the expansions in that case.
Spoiler:
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Xanthir » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:28 pm UTC

This really should have been given a poll.

The answer is, of course, "Greatest Game". Any game where you can freeze all the liquid water into the polar icecaps so that you have more space to spread fungus is a great game. SMAC does it with style.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Gadren » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:31 am UTC

This is awesome -- it's been a while since I last checked up on Planetfall, and it looks like they've made awesome progress.

And of course, SMAC was the greatest game -- it's wonderful to have actual philosophy in a game.

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Yuri2356 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:07 am UTC

And yet no way within the plot to get away with mass-fungicide. To make a world safe for humanity. (Well, safe from everything but itself, but that's what nerve staples are for)

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:39 am UTC

Yuri2356 wrote:And yet no way within the plot to get away with mass-fungicide. To make a world safe for humanity. (Well, safe from everything but itself, but that's what nerve staples are for)


Is the statute of limitations for spoilers up on this game yet? Just in case.

Spoiler:
Hear, hear. Like hell I'm merging with some collective-conciousness planet thing. Communists. Probably more hippie than Deirdre. My spartans are going to go find another new system, just watch. (Actual note: I played as University and beat the hell out of everyone else at research. Transcendence ending, awwwright.)
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Kizyr » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:44 am UTC

Greatest game, perhaps. Once I'm back home, I'll have to try this mod out... If anyone has any screenshots, I'd like to see.

My favorite faction in SMAC is The University. But the best game I played was as The Hive. I went straight for a thought-control police state, with immensely populated cities and a larger military than all the other factions combined. Of course the military was superfluous, considering I just planetbusted all the other factions into craters. KF
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Phen » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:06 am UTC

I've only heard of this game as a precursor for Civilization... But it sounds awesome. I'll check it out ASAP.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Sanctuary1 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:06 pm UTC

Hehe, I have one of the original discs my Dad bought way back sitting up on my shelf right now.

Epic game.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Phen » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:09 pm UTC

I havn't actually downloaded it to see if it works yet, but it looks like it's not updated for the latest version of Civ IV yet?
Nevermind, that's a completely new patch that I havn't got yet. So no worries there, I hope. (The .17 I mean. The mod is for .13)

EDIT1: I must be a complete idiot, but I can't find out how to load the mod :( I think it miiight have something to do with that the game is in the 2K games folder and not just the firaxis folder that the mod seems to assume.

Apparantly it doesn't like the complete version.

EDIT2: After a bit of tinkering around, I've managed to start the game up with the mod, but I'm not convinced it'll keep working...
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Okita » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:12 pm UTC

Every year or so I always boot up this game and play it again. I think the degree of customization is a lot greater in some areas than current Civ games. That's just me.

But I like the whole ideology concept. The funny thing is I always end up being the UN Peacekeepers anyway. Sure, I don't get the same advantages like UoP's superb tech but on the other hand, I have a lot of variability in what I can do.

That and having a talent every four citizens means I don't really have to pay for Psych facilities.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Yakk » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:17 pm UTC

I remember SMAC. :-) Haven't played in in a while.

Spoiler:
My favorate game was playing the Morganites. I was stuck on a small island with the Believers. We where peaceful -- I was interested in commerce, not conquest! And I was stronger than they where.

Then the god damn believers went to war, and planet-busted one of my cities, in the same god-damn turn. God damnit. I proceeded to wipe them off the face of the continent.

South of me where the Survivalists. My war with the Believers had set me back (and lost me a good city!), so they where much larger. I proceeded to deal with them diplomatically, built up a navy to attempt to defend against them (my economy was pretty good), and explored for areas to expand into.

Then I ran into the Hive.

The Spartans had claimed about 3 times as much land area, and where twice as powerful as me on the power graph. When I met the Hive, the where twice as high as the Spartains.

Oh fuck.

And they where friendly with the Spartains.

Crap.

War broke out. I had a large war-chest -- so I used spy units to buy Spartain and Hive boats that approached my coast, and then reverse engineered them to build my own "ultra-lite" coast guard boats. Eventually I managed to generate naval superiority in the strait between me and the Spartain continent.

But meanwhile, I had explored in the other direction. The Hive where both East and West of me -- they had conquored the entire god damn world, other than the sliver owned by me and the Spartains.

I wasn't going to hold onto my naval advantage if the Hive fleet reached here -- I simply didn't have the manufacturing base. So I switched over to the mass production of probes, and fought a losing attrition war in the strait. Then I sent the probes over.

And bought the entire northern Spartan continent out from under them.

As a bonus, the Spartans had been massing their army in the North, in order to start an invasion of my lands. So now I had over half of the Spartan army! I headed south.

But it wasn't enough. Me + Spartan power was economically, production and mass-wise way smaller than the Hive. I could keep on trying the "buy enemy units", but I couldn't do this to Hive air power, which was starting to harass my coast lines and wiped out my scout navy.

So I switched up. Between mine and the Spartan wonders, we had a few bonuses to Psychic combat. My entire coastal force started pumping out isles of the deep, and sending them off towards Hive territory. They ran into heavy resistance -- but all of the technological advancements of the Hive couldn't stand up to the raw terror of mind-worms.

Meanwhile, the remainder of the Spartans-turned-traitor finished off the Spartan resistance. I needed the resources elsewhere, so I accepted the capitulation of the final Spartan cities, and redirected my empire to producing an invasion force.

They overran the exterior Hive islands, flying through the fungus that the Hive hadn't cleared yet, and swarmed over enemy defenses. Slowly, my power and economy started catching up to the Hive.

But ... the hive was still more advanced. My spies reported that the Chariman had started a project to upload and take control over the entire planet's network of fungus -- clearly, given my mindworm-based technology, this was a serious danger.

However, the Chairman was unwise. The project was located on the coasts of his continent.

My first wave of mindworm controllers was long dead, but the second wave was even larger. This Vanguard of my navy and marines changed direction. Loaded down with now veteran mind-worm workers, they forged towards the heartland of the enemy industry. Meanwhile, the 3rd wave landed on the nearer parts of the coast of the main continent -- hoping to distract enemy resources enough to make the primary thrust succeed.

A handful of turns before the Hive finished the project, my force took the city. By that time, the 3rd wave had managed a foothold down south, and the 4th and 5th waves of troops where advancing. A 6th wave of high-tech orbital-insertion assault tanks was then dropped behind enemy lines, and the Hive folded in a manner of turns.

Meanwhile, I had discovered what the Hive was up to with their attempt to control the world-fungus. It was not co
@#@#$ NO CARRIER


These games, I find, are more fun if you are both not-dominant, and you still have a chance.

That is a problem with many of these "empire games" -- a good start is too important.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Xanthir » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:18 am UTC

Yakk wrote:These games, I find, are more fun if you are both not-dominant, and you still have a chance.

Agreed. It's a challenge, but it produces the awesome feeling of actual *success*, that you could outwit and outmaneuver the cheating computer bastard anyway.

Yakk wrote:That is a problem with many of these "empire games" -- a good start is too important.

One of the things that I love about GalCiv2 is that even in the face of the Evil Empire, you can still fight back pretty well, just because attack units can't take over planets. They have to send over specialized invasion ships, which are full of their actual population (so losing them is actually a hardship), and even then you've got a decent chance of resisting (depending on your relative levels of soldiering skill/tech, of course).

That roadblock in the path of absolute conquest is often more than enough to give you a fighting chance.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:29 am UTC

Greatest game. Of its type, at least.

I've put off buying the Civ4 expansions for a long time, just like I put off buying Civ4. I'll end up getting them eventually, and when I do I'll definitely get this mod.

The nicest thing will probably be being able to start a map without all 7 people. That's the only thing I actively dislike about SMAC- it's impossible to play on the harder difficulty without having war at some point, and that bastard Yang always rushes airplanes. *grumbles*
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:11 am UTC

I'm going to see if I can buy or aquire the game somewhere, but it's probably just wishful thinking... I only tried the Civ4 mod briefly, because it was pretty confusing. Then again, it's not done yet.
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In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Gravitas Shortfall » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:42 am UTC

Greatest game ever made, without a doubt. I would always sit back, building up infrastructure, and then finally once I had completely outpaced everyone else tech-wise, I'd let loose with the drop singularity shock troops; never gets old.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:46 am UTC

This thread made me play the original Smac and smacx again.
Last time I played them I was in primary school (like 10?)
It is better than I remember as I understand some of it slightly better.

As an aside, I always used to favour the Gaians or University in the original, or the Consciousness in the expansion, I think I like the tree hugging freedom of information sides, and tend to play very peacefully terraforming a nice little empire (Weather paradigm definately built) until attacked, then I have to mobilise and tend to go for mind worms ("paralyse their victims with psychic terror") or depending if I have contact with everyone and the UN treaty is repealed, fast attack units with nerve gas pods.

Basicly don't piss off hippies.

Although, playing as Miriam (can't remember her faction name, believers?) was fun, due to the tech disadvantage, and needing to get Planatery Datalinks to assure military might.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Okita » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:27 pm UTC

Well Miriam as the Believers has that nice 25% attack bonus. Planetary Datalinks does help you maintain tech parity but with Miriam, if you're not attacking and using your probe teams, you're not using your skills to their full advantage.

Not to mention that your anti-person is typically the University of Planet who just happens to have the best techs.

In my current game, I'm Lal on the same continent with Miriam. I've got a pretty good hold on a choke point so when she inevitably attempts to betray me, I just take over the closest city and then trade it back for peace (I don't really want to spend the time taking over the rest of the faction and would rather have her using her bonuses on the other people who she's pissed off).

Unfortunately, a bad probe action has gotten me into a war with Zhakarov on another continent. I wanted the tech. He can't really take me out but neither can I and I still want the rest of his technology. I'm considering taking over and then trading one of Miriam's bases to him so that he spends more time attempting to fight her off while I steal his technology...but then she would steal his tech as well and then I'd have to deal with that later. Meh.

Also, the supply crawler and former are King! King I say!
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby hipp5 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:48 pm UTC

That is one game I never tried. Maybe once I reinstall civ4 I'll get that mod and try it out.

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Phen » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:01 pm UTC

Is there any problems with the game using vista? I went down to my games retailer and it seems that they might be able to get the game for me.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:08 pm UTC

@Phen I'm running Smac and Smacx in Vista, and no problems running.

@Okita I hate (not in difficulty to play against or as but for annoyance) Miriam, all the time she is just "blah blah you chose tech eeeeeevil, but gimme it or i'll attack, or maybe i'll just attack everything in crazed fury". Her redeeming feature for me is that her church bases look more pleasing than most of the others. :p

Formers are indeed king, esp against the ai (no human vs games :(, maybe we could get some going?) you can if in a pact with someone you wish to destroy (miriam) just ruin their bases with terraformers, lowering them into water (what no submersion domes? Should have fucking researched the tech eh bitch?) or raising land so they are on the dry slope, or just planting fungus.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Yakk » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:09 pm UTC

/shrug -- Former cheapness (being able to raise/lower terrain in someone else's territory, without being in that square, and supply-crawler "I just made a size 3 city into a super-producer", seems too cheap for me. The AI isn't smart enough to use these tactics, and a game in which the AI was smart enough to use those tactics wouldn't be as interesting.

The mindworm late-game economic trump card is bad enough. (the cost of units scales up as the game progresses, but the cost of mind worms do not -- which means that economically, the late game is mind-worm centric, unless need the special powers of a high-tech unit, or are stomping someone far far lower in tech -- in which case, the defenders should be using mind worms (but aren't smart enough)).
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:09 pm UTC

Ian Ex Machina wrote:Her redeeming feature for me is that her church bases look more pleasing than most of the others
I know. The faction is so terrible (probably slightly better than the Spartans, but still so terrible) but they have the best-looking bases.

Yakk wrote:/shrug -- Former cheapness (being able to raise/lower terrain in someone else's territory, without being in that square, and supply-crawler "I just made a size 3 city into a super-producer", seems too cheap for me. The AI isn't smart enough to use these tactics, and a game in which the AI was smart enough to use those tactics wouldn't be as interesting.
I wish the multiplayer games I'd played of it had gone longer / I had better people to play with, but multiplayer games with smart humans tend to still be interesting.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:47 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Ian Ex Machina wrote:Her redeeming feature for me is that her church bases look more pleasing than most of the others
I know. The faction is so terrible (probably slightly better than the Spartans, but still so terrible) but they have the best-looking bases.

Ugh Spartans, their bases look the worst I think.

Maybe we could get an excd Smac/smacx game going somehow?
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Xanthir » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:06 pm UTC

For some reason, I've never played as anyone but the Gaians in every one of my games. I considered playing UN once, but at the last moment switched back to Gaian. Probably because (a) I have a ridiculous weakness for playing hotties and (b) she has a *really* easy time converting/pumping up mindworms.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:40 pm UTC

SO do you play Boudica in Civ 4?
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:06 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:For some reason, I've never played as anyone but the Gaians in every one of my games. I considered playing UN once, but at the last moment switched back to Gaian. Probably because (a) I have a ridiculous weakness for playing hotties and (b) she has a *really* easy time converting/pumping up mindworms.


And you didn't play as Miriam :o?
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Vaniver » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:45 am UTC

Ian Ex Machina wrote:Maybe we could get an excd Smac/smacx game going somehow?
I've tried a few times and it hasn't gotten that far, but I'm willing to try again.

TCP/IP or PBEM (play by email)? The second is easier to get going, but probably will die at around turn 100 (which will take three months to get to).
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Bruce » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:42 am UTC

SMAC is great and the last one to have a linux port. Unfortunately I try not to play it as I always end up getting no sleep that night.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Shadic » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:11 am UTC

Sid Meier's SimGolf is the greatest game he's ever made, sorry. :D

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Okita » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:42 pm UTC

Tch, all this talk about Spartans, Gaians, and UoP.

Am I the only guy who likes the UN and Morgan?

(Also, whenever I play Morgan, I don't imagine Nwabudike Morgan's voice but instead imagine Morgan Freeman saying everything)
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Xanthir » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:21 pm UTC

Cryopyre wrote:SO do you play Boudica in Civ 4?

Haven't played Civ 4, but Google Images tells me... maybe.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Cryopyre » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:47 pm UTC

Hey, my CD is all scratched, is there a place I can DL this game again, because all this talk is giving me an itch.
Felstaff wrote:I actually see what religion is to social, economical and perhaps political progress in a similar way to what war is to technological progress.

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Yakk » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:09 pm UTC

Cryopyre wrote:Hey, my CD is all scratched, is there a place I can DL this game again, because all this talk is giving me an itch.

There are companies that repair scratched CDs.

This appears to be a demo download:
http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/gam ... a-Centauri
Dunno how it is "demo" and not full-featured.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Ian Ex Machina
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:35 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Tch, all this talk about Spartans, Gaians, and UoP.

Am I the only guy who likes the UN and Morgan?

(Also, whenever I play Morgan, I don't imagine Nwabudike Morgan's voice but instead imagine Morgan Freeman saying everything)


I played UN the other day, so many talents, so many popups about golden ages. And extortionate number of votes.

Planetary council things are awesome, I got people to vote to raise sea levels, and then half of the Datatech faction's bases don't have submersian domes...soon after the university bases were all building them. (Infiltration, yay, although he had sworn a pact before I destroyed him.)

Also Domai of the drones, so stubborn, I say vote for supreme leader, everyone but him agrees everyone pacts with me against him, and nuke him with so many planet busters, but noooo he just won't give up.
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Okita
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Okita » Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:50 pm UTC

Actually... I was wondering about Infiltrator status. You get it with the Empath Guild and/or being the Planetary Governor.

As Lal, of course, I'm almost always the Planetary Governor (pop limits restriction removed + double vote means I can outvote the entire planet) but I don't know what the Infiltrator status means or how I can ... access it.

But yeah, the talents make pop booms and golden ages ridiculously easy because you almost never need psych stuff for drones if you have just a children's creche and rec commons. I had actually forgotten what a drone looked like for a while since I never got them.
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Ian Ex Machina
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:01 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Actually... I was wondering about Infiltrator status. You get it with the Empath Guild and/or being the Planetary Governor.

As Lal, of course, I'm almost always the Planetary Governor (pop limits restriction removed + double vote means I can outvote the entire planet) but I don't know what the Infiltrator status means or how I can ... access it.

But yeah, the talents make pop booms and golden ages ridiculously easy because you almost never need psych stuff for drones if you have just a children's creche and rec commons. I had actually forgotten what a drone looked like for a while since I never got them.


Infiltrator is being able to see their income/reasearch/all that jazz in the same way you can see yours, and you can see what each base is building under it's name and see what units are inside. I think that's roughly it.

Strange that talent's are girls, citizens are guys and drones are lobster peoples/sunburnt.
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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:38 pm UTC

Ian Ex Machina wrote:Strange that talent's are girls, citizens are guys and drones are lobster peoples/sunburnt.
I believe I've seen male and female talents, but I may be misremembering.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

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Re: Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri - Great Game, or Greatest Game?

Postby Kizyr » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:56 pm UTC

Okita wrote:But yeah, the talents make pop booms and golden ages ridiculously easy because you almost never need psych stuff for drones if you have just a children's creche and rec commons. I had actually forgotten what a drone looked like for a while since I never got them.


Before I was able to implement thought control, I just nerve-stapled everyone. That tended to circumvent (or at least delay) the need for building as many Rec Commons and other happiness-related improvements.

Besides which, nerve stapling is so much more fun. Especially nerve stapling citizens in a conquered base. KF
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