Science: The Gathering (?)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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pi-3 orionis
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Postby pi-3 orionis » Tue May 15, 2007 4:17 am UTC

This is the coolest idea I've heard all day. I think I might start making some cards once an aggreement has been found on the colours.

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SpitValve
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Postby SpitValve » Tue May 15, 2007 5:02 am UTC

Why do they have to correspond to Magic colours anyway? Can't we just call it "Chemistry" or "Physics" and have it as it's own thing?

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Postby __Kit » Tue May 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC

This is the coolest idea I've heard all day.
=]

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evilbeanfiend
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Postby evilbeanfiend » Tue May 15, 2007 9:36 am UTC

SpitValve wrote:Why do they have to correspond to Magic colours anyway? Can't we just call it "Chemistry" or "Physics" and have it as it's own thing?


good point, don't have to shoehorn social sciences in then.
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Postby Toeofdoom » Tue May 15, 2007 9:58 am UTC

Actually, thats a good point, but something we would have to keep is the enemies/allies arrangement

like, in magic the 5 colours are in a pentagon

Code: Select all

        White

Green              blUe

   Red       Black


and the ones near each other are allies, the ones on opposite sides are enemies. Mainly for multicolour cards anyway.
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue May 15, 2007 1:28 pm UTC

good point, don't have to shoehorn social sciences in then.


:roll:

Actually, thats a good point, but something we would have to keep is the enemies/allies arrangement

like, in magic the 5 colours are in a pentagon


Code: Select all

             Math

Physics              Psychology/Sociology

  Chemistry     Biology


Works well, I think.
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Spaz Funbag
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Postby Spaz Funbag » Tue May 15, 2007 2:12 pm UTC

I don't know, but somehow this looks...."odd".


Like this:Image
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue May 15, 2007 2:32 pm UTC

Hmm. We need symbols for all the various sciences.
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Postby evilbeanfiend » Tue May 15, 2007 2:51 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Hmm. We need symbols for all the various sciences.


based on google image search results

physics = atomic model or e=mc^2
chemistry = coloured liquids in flasks
biology = a leaf or a sea creature
maths = equations (no wai!)
social science = cross section of a human head
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue May 15, 2007 2:52 pm UTC

sweet.
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evilbeanfiend
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Postby evilbeanfiend » Tue May 15, 2007 3:05 pm UTC

a further image result breakdown:

psychology = human heads
sociology = bright cartoon people holding hands (wtf?)
computer science = fractals or matrix like streams of symbols
archaeology = bones or people in a hole
economics = graphs (mostly going down, oops!)
philosophy = dudes in togas
medicine = pill bottles
linguistics seems to give no common results (think we all know why this is :wink: )

id suggest philosophy as the fifth as it fits in with the others in a classical sense
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue May 15, 2007 3:07 pm UTC

But is even less like science than Sociology or Psychology.
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evilbeanfiend
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Postby evilbeanfiend » Tue May 15, 2007 3:11 pm UTC

what about CS or medicine then? surely they are harder science then sociology? (actually id be tempted to say geography is as well)
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue May 15, 2007 3:28 pm UTC

Medicine is a subset of biology the way engineering is a subset of physics or chemistry.

CS I might be able to see, but it lacks the broad importance that Sociology/Psychology has.

I still really don't see the objection to Sociology/Psychology.
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evilbeanfiend
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Postby evilbeanfiend » Tue May 15, 2007 3:38 pm UTC

just my little prejudices i guess, but i was having fun finding symbols for the others
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue May 15, 2007 3:41 pm UTC

Haha, fair enough. Honestly, if there's one of the current five that I don't feel really "fits", I'd say it's Math....it's not really a science, so much as it's the underpinning of a lot of science...but..meh.
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Mighty Jalapeno
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Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue May 15, 2007 4:07 pm UTC

I don't want to start a new thread for this, because it's more of a private project, but this is too close to something I'm doing, but this seems to be the best place to attract the like-minded people... does anyone want to help me with a Religion CCG?

Also, when you get the Science CCG up and running, I'll totally help with graphics and card design :)

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Solt
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Postby Solt » Tue May 15, 2007 6:35 pm UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:maths = equations (no wai!)


An integral sign. Or a sigma. Or a delta. Take your pick, I guess.
"Welding was faster, cheaper and, in theory,
produced a more reliable product. But sailors do
not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a
most annoying habit of splitting in two."
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The LuigiManiac
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Postby The LuigiManiac » Tue May 15, 2007 6:39 pm UTC

Solt wrote:
evilbeanfiend wrote:maths = equations (no wai!)


An integral sign. Or a sigma. Or a delta. Take your pick, I guess.


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Postby ArchangelShrike » Tue May 15, 2007 7:11 pm UTC

Combine Math with CS to give it more weight, if you want to. CS has a variety of uses in our lives no, like running the intartubes and these forums..

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Postby RealGrouchy » Wed May 16, 2007 2:17 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I don't want to start a new thread for this, because it's more of a private project, but this is too close to something I'm doing, but this seems to be the best place to attract the like-minded people... does anyone want to help me with a Religion CCG?

I think every card in such a CCG would have to have an effect related to ante. By which I *could* mean that the effects within the game all try to relate to something outside the system (as religion tries to do)...

...but really what I mean by that is I think such a CCG should be illegal. No good could come from it.

- RG>
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Postby Vandole » Wed May 16, 2007 2:46 am UTC

Belial wrote:Haha, fair enough. Honestly, if there's one of the current five that I don't feel really "fits", I'd say it's Math....it's not really a science, so much as it's the underpinning of a lot of science...but..meh.


What about Economics instead of Math? Just throwing that out there.

Also, where would Computer Science (indeed, anything computer related) fit into this? Would it be like... colourless/artifact? Or would we just shoehorn it into a group?
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ArchangelShrike
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Postby ArchangelShrike » Wed May 16, 2007 2:51 am UTC

Economics isn't a hard science, per se... But Math would include statistics, which is usually used to bend all the rules, and Sociology/Psych is just as "hard" as Economics, so...

Math/Economics/CS! Or that's my take.

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Postby electoralfraud » Wed May 16, 2007 2:58 am UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:id suggest philosophy as the fifth as it fits in with the others in a classical sense


Belial wrote:But is even less like science than Sociology or Psychology.


*ahem* I would beg to differ. Western philosophy laid much of the foundation for what we now consider sciences. You could argue that the main aim of western philosophy was the conception and refinement of scientific method.

As a suggestion maybe philosophy should be an equivalent of artifacts?


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Toeofdoom
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Postby Toeofdoom » Wed May 16, 2007 9:26 am UTC

Just so you know, there is an easier way to make cards that look more realistic: http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/download

You can put in custom backgrounds too, not sure about changing the mana symbols though. I dont have time to actually make any atm though...
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Postby Spaz Funbag » Wed May 16, 2007 10:48 am UTC

Why would you want to make an ATM??? ;)

well, first consensus needs to be found regarding the sciences, and then need to find matching symbols....

my suggestions:
physics
chemistry/biology
CS
psychology, maybe add sociology in there (can't really identify with that, what exactly is it?)
as fifth maybe history/archaeology

math(s) being the "subskeleton" of sciences might be a type of cards represented in all of these (like a red mathematician, or a blue formula)...philosophy in a similar way, as it was closely connected to all of these in the past (except CS obviously)

I would broaden the five areas, as you can always create subsections (->medicine), that are still "compatible" to other creatures and artifacts of the same colour. Like, use medicine with bunsen burner to get ...."crack" (get the point?)[/code]
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed May 16, 2007 1:32 pm UTC

As a suggestion maybe philosophy should be an equivalent of artifacts?


That works, since, like math, it's not really science so much as the thing on which science is built.
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Postby Nyarlathotep » Wed May 16, 2007 3:55 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Haha, fair enough. Honestly, if there's one of the current five that I don't feel really "fits", I'd say it's Math....it's not really a science, so much as it's the underpinning of a lot of science...but..meh.


But... it's MATH.


(Randomly, the enemies/allies thing suddenly explains why I am godawful at chemistry.)

AND GOD NO NOT ECONOMICS. AAAAAAH. SOMEONE GET ME HOLY WATER.

There must be a Schrodenger's Cat card in the physics set. Or maybe not.
'Gehȳrst þū, sǣlida, hwæt þis folc segeð?
hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
ǣttrynne ord and ealde swurd,
þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Postby The LuigiManiac » Wed May 16, 2007 4:00 pm UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:There must be a Schrodenger's Cat card in the physics set. Or maybe not.


It will be both in the set and not in the set at the same time.
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Postby Eschatokyrios » Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 pm UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:linguistics seems to give no common results (think we all know why this is :wink: )


I would suggest the IPA symbol for a glottal stop, myself.
კაცი ბჭობდა, ღმერთი იცინოდაო
k'atsi bch'obda, ghmerti itsinodao
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simen
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Postby simen » Wed May 16, 2007 5:01 pm UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:computer science = mountain dew
archaeology = raptor

Fixed.

Am I the only one who thinks this game is unfairly biased towards the hard sciences? There's only one part of it that isn't a lab science or math. I think that psychology and maybe linguistics should have a place. Math, although holy, shouldn't be there any more than literacy, simply because it doesn't discover new things, it merely elaborates on old ones (most of the time).

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Spaz Funbag
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Postby Spaz Funbag » Wed May 16, 2007 5:17 pm UTC

my thoughts exactly!

Like, about math and not sciency
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Postby Solt » Wed May 16, 2007 6:51 pm UTC

ArchangelShrike wrote:Combine Math with CS to give it more weight, if you want to. CS has a variety of uses in our lives no, like running the intartubes and these forums..



No! No CS. This is Science: The Gathering, not Engineering: The Gathering.


Perhaps if there are disagreements about the fifth science, we could do archeology/history since it has been around the longest.
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produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

not float on theory, and the welded tankers had a

most annoying habit of splitting in two."

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed May 16, 2007 6:54 pm UTC

Archaeology is really a subset of social science, the way paleontology is a subset of biology.

I think if we wanted to go

Phys
Chem
Bio
Soc/Psych
Enviro-Sci

That would make a sort of sense. Not sure, though, Enviro-sci manages to be even less data-filled than Psychology, because experiments are so hard to conduct. It also just tends to be a Chem/Bio hybrid on a huge scale, so I could see an argument against using it as an "element"
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electoralfraud
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Postby electoralfraud » Wed May 16, 2007 7:21 pm UTC

I think CS and engineering are better choices than enviro-sci for the fifth class. As you say it really it's more of a subset; sorta like geography and biology's bastard child or something. I dunno, environmental science as the fifth just seems like a soft-touch.

I will lobby against history as a class to my dying breath though. It seems the least like a science of any of them.

My favorite so far is:

Phys
Chem
Bio
Soc&Psych
CS&Engineering

Phil&Math - Artifact equivalents.

I mean that seems to cover most of the ground, and most everything else is going to be within one of those areas or a multi-colour (gold) card.
It also seems to me to provide the best balance so far as far as potential cards goes. I think remembering that the areas must be balanced in card potential is important here.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed May 16, 2007 7:23 pm UTC

I really don't like Engineering as a Science, since it's kindof like putting "Bullet" on a list of guns.
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electoralfraud
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Postby electoralfraud » Wed May 16, 2007 7:28 pm UTC

Yeah, but as I said I think putting it together with CS gives an area with the potential for good cards. Gotta remember it should actually play as a game rather than be totally accurate. With CS&Eng its pretty much the sort of 'technology' side of science in one place which gives a good theme for a set.
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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed May 16, 2007 7:33 pm UTC

I can kindof see that, now that you put it that way, but won't that section just leech cards from the other sections? Like, without engineering present, I would put "Hydrogen Bomb" under physics, but with Engineering present, it kindof defaults to that, since it's technology rather than theory and phenomena.
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Postby Rysto » Wed May 16, 2007 8:03 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:That's still true today.

I was under the impression that banding is no longer used as a creature ability. But it's not like I've played the game in several years.

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Postby Spaz Funbag » Wed May 16, 2007 8:16 pm UTC

still, isn't chemistry and biology too close to be two independent sections?

yeah, accuracy not important. It might only get crowded for ideas in some sections and rather empty in others.

Also, I see no problem with history. especially if you add archaeology to it.
then again, it could easily be a subsection of each other section, therefore oh crap.

Someone with authority decide over the issue. So we can move along ;)
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