Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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sikyon
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby sikyon » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:28 pm UTC

I beat it on brutal on... friday? It's pretty good. You'll get a chance to build up massive armies in later missions, in the earlier ones it's all about aggression.

It's even better here... the local version costs A$90, and the US version costs US$60... both digital downloads from battle.net. Why is it so much more expensive here when the game is probably bit-for-bit identical anyway, there's no translation costs or distribution costs or anything? Because fuck you, that's why.


I believe the primary reason is that the battle.net servers are more costly to run in Australia.

Other than that, it does seem rather highly priced.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:57 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:I don't mind some of the bold strategies, but you have to have a contingancy plan for if it fails.

Well, it's called a cheese strategy. Any cheese strategy is basically defined by not having a contingency plan, and that's the only way it can work. If the barracks in my base wasn't the first thing he built, there'd be no way he could have got it in when I would then have overlords and zerglings flying around. If your teammate didn't build those cannons immediately, then it would be pointless to do so at all. You either don't mind it or you hate it, but it's impossible for a cheese strategy to have a contingency plan.
Xanthir wrote:No, I think European prices being the same number of euros as dollars is pretty standard for the games industry. I guess they just think europeans are retarded?

I knew it happened now and then, but I didn't think it was a standard. Especially not for digital purchases. I'd just assume they're exploiting complacency built over the past few decades because Europe and Australia are usually foreign markets and thus more expensive for hard copies. Expenses which are now almost non-exitent for digital downloads. It's the same logic for pushing for $60 games -- to build complacency so that $70 doesn't seem so extreme anymore, and so on.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:17 am UTC

sikyon wrote:I believe the primary reason is that the battle.net servers are more costly to run in Australia.


The wallabies are chewing on the cables?

psion wrote:
Xanthir wrote:No, I think European prices being the same number of euros as dollars is pretty standard for the games industry. I guess they just think europeans are retarded?

I knew it happened now and then, but I didn't think it was a standard. Especially not for digital purchases. I'd just assume they're exploiting complacency built over the past few decades because Europe and Australia are usually foreign markets and thus more expensive for hard copies. Expenses which are now almost non-exitent for digital downloads. It's the same logic for pushing for $60 games -- to build complacency so that $70 doesn't seem so extreme anymore, and so on.


That, or it's too much of a hassle to constantly update the price to reflect the market changes, and as the currencies are roughly on par on a good day, they figure it evens out.

I've seen it the other way around as well. Especially for games you can find priced in US dollars. When the dollar is weak, they can be as low as 60% of local retail price (which include a 25% VAT).
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Mo0man » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:09 am UTC

By Cheese, they mean "Full of Holes"
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:36 am UTC

Well the Euro has averaged roughly 1.2 to 1 USD over the past 7 years, but I guess they only care about exchange rates when it makes them money (AUD). I suppose this is no revelation.
Mo0man wrote:By Cheese, they mean "Full of Holes"

Actually it's a phrase that has originated from Korea and has evolved over time. "Chi Zu" is short for "cheater." We picked it up because it was unusually fitting.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby VectorZero » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:58 am UTC

phlip wrote:So, I finally got in, going through the start of the campaign... gah, I clearly need more practice not turtling to a ridiculous extent. Took me 3 goes to get the "beat on hard in under 10 minutes" achievement on the second mission (second time was 10:16... that wasn't fun... third try was 9:54, which I'll live with).
Don't remind me about that. 2nd go 10:15, 3rd 10:03 :rage:

Anyone interested in some intra-xkcd games? I'm on SEA, VectorZero (489), and bloody awful looking to improve.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Texas_Ben » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:40 pm UTC

Alright, I love the game. The gameplay is perfect, and the slightly cartoonified graphics don't really bother me (pre-release I was having rage). But the story.
Specifically, the protoss side missions. Dear god.
They need to remember that StarCraft is sci-fi, not fantasy. I do not approve of Obi-wan tassadar, or the overall magical space elfs vibe the protoss are giving off in general. In the first game they were badass professional warriors. Not really getting the same vibe from them this time around. And they felt the need to give the dark templars the emo treatment, for some reason. Always going on about darkness and shadow now. Pretty annoying. Basically for some parts of the story I'm getting really hideous WarCraft vibes from it, and I do not approve.

But again, I love the game. They nailed the terrans perfectly, I think. They're the same rag-tag bunch of misfits and rednecks they always were. I especially love the SCV. "Well butter my biscuit". And mercenaries are fun. So are permanently cloaked ghosts. And that tech-upgrade mega-transport is rediculously fun.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:49 pm UTC

phlip wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:I don't know what to buy. Due to the stupid region locking, I have a choice of either buying the US version to be able to play with people I know, or the EU version to be able to play with reasonable ping against twits with atrocious English skills. And I'm not getting both versions.

It's even better here... the local version costs A$90, and the US version costs US$60... both digital downloads from battle.net. Why is it so much more expensive here when the game is probably bit-for-bit identical anyway, there's no translation costs or distribution costs or anything? Because fuck you, that's why.
Also, Australia censorship, so they have to.. what, edit out the blood, turn the stimpack drugs to "Energy Bars" and replace the guns with kittens?
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Mo0man » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:19 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Also, Australia censorship, so they have to.. what, edit out the blood, turn the stimpack drugs to "Energy Bars" and replace the guns with kittens?
I would pay extra for that
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby WarDaft » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:21 pm UTC

They need to remember that StarCraft is sci-fi, not fantasy. I do not approve of Obi-wan tassadar, or the overall magical space elfs vibe the protoss are giving off in general. In the first game they were badass professional warriors. Not really getting the same vibe from them this time around. And they felt the need to give the dark templars the emo treatment, for some reason. Always going on about darkness and shadow now. Pretty annoying.
They really ruined Zeratul's character =/
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:47 pm UTC

Remember, the Protoss you use in those side missions are all Dark Templar, and they were always kinda into the "power of the void" bullshit. The few times that you run into Orthodox Protoss they're just as cool as they ever were, although i dunno if "professional" is really the word i'd use.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:26 pm UTC

WarDaft wrote:
They need to remember that StarCraft is sci-fi, not fantasy. I do not approve of Obi-wan tassadar, or the overall magical space elfs vibe the protoss are giving off in general. In the first game they were badass professional warriors. Not really getting the same vibe from them this time around. And they felt the need to give the dark templars the emo treatment, for some reason. Always going on about darkness and shadow now. Pretty annoying.
They really ruined Zeratul's character =/


What upsets me the most is the burning eyes* thing both protoss and (some) Zerg have (specifically Kerrigan). That looked awesome in Warcraft 3, where there was actual magic and stuff to explain it. In Starcraft 2, it's very out-of-place.

* not just glowing. There's smoke coming out of them.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:36 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Also, Australia censorship, so they have to.. what, edit out the blood, turn the stimpack drugs to "Energy Bars" and replace the guns with kittens?
I would pay extra for that
Hence, A$90.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Texas_Ben » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:26 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:Remember, the Protoss you use in those side missions are all Dark Templar, and they were always kinda into the "power of the void" bullshit. The few times that you run into Orthodox Protoss they're just as cool as they ever were, although i dunno if "professional" is really the word i'd use.

Yeah professional doesn't really nail what I was trying to get across, but it was the closest I can think of off the top of my head. The original protoss just had more of... well, more of an edge I guess. These guys just sound 20x more badass.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby TommyTumnus » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:24 pm UTC

I can't say I'm a particularly good player, but I can say that half of the people I encounter in bronze league are idiots. I've only been playing team matches with friends, and we have yet to encounter a protoss player who doesn't try and mass void rays no matter what. It's not even funny anymore, it's just annoying to repeatedly deal with. One time this guy built nothing but cannons and void rays. Before he reached five, I flew into his base with some vikings and took them out. A couple minutes later, I find that he's still just building void rays, so I fly in and wreck him again. Needless to say, we haven't lost to void rays...

Also, I've found that playing 4v4 bronze league on Sundays late at night will get you matched against diamond league 4v4 teams. No joke--last night we kept getting matched against diamond and platinum players, and we kept getting our shit wrecked. When we finally got matched against another bronze team, it felt like heading into a preschool and beating up toddlers after getting into a bar fight with some UFC fighters. At least you learn a lot from playing matches against those guys up top.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby achan1058 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:50 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:Remember, the Protoss you use in those side missions are all Dark Templar, and they were always kinda into the "power of the void" bullshit. The few times that you run into Orthodox Protoss they're just as cool as they ever were, although i dunno if "professional" is really the word i'd use.
You mean the times when they try to murder you for defiling their sacred whatever?

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Texas_Ben » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:05 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:Remember, the Protoss you use in those side missions are all Dark Templar, and they were always kinda into the "power of the void" bullshit. The few times that you run into Orthodox Protoss they're just as cool as they ever were, although i dunno if "professional" is really the word i'd use.
You mean the times when they try to murder you for defiling their sacred whatever?

Those aren't your standard khala-following protoss either. They're the convenient rogue subfaction that are there so you can fight protoss without having the main protoss faction turn against you. Raynor and the Protoss have a very friendly relationship, so you can't go around blowing their shit up.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby WarDaft » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:27 am UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:Those aren't your standard khala-following protoss either. They're the convenient rogue subfaction that are there so you can fight protoss without having the main protoss faction turn against you. Raynor and the Protoss have a very friendly relationship, so you can't go around blowing their shit up.

Except for that one mission where you can, and they actually look forward to you doing so.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Kain » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:52 am UTC

WarDaft wrote:
Texas_Ben wrote:Those aren't your standard khala-following protoss either. They're the convenient rogue subfaction that are there so you can fight protoss without having the main protoss faction turn against you. Raynor and the Protoss have a very friendly relationship, so you can't go around blowing their shit up.

Except for that one mission where you can, and they actually look forward to you doing so.


Well, yeah, in that one you have a perfectly valid reason for blowing them up, one that Tassadar would clearly have approved of. After all, it was a similar circumstance that saw him get in trouble with the Conclave.

As for the Protoss spirituality thing, that is still annoying, but it was there in the first game as well, just more in the pre-mission briefings rather than the unit acknowledgments. I have to say, though, the stalker quotes are generally funny. "I will serve... for now." Heh, totally captures the essence of the zombified remains of a dark templar.


Spoiler:
On a side note, I totally wish regular high templar could learn that heal everything spell whatshisname used in the first Zeratul mission.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:50 am UTC

How is everyone doing in their leagues?

I am in Gold 2v2 Leviathon Zeta and currently ranked 16. Getting better with toss every day, its all I play anymore.
4 Rax Zealot spamming is winning all my games if my partner is willing to spam tier 1 units as well, its undefeated so far.
People to eager to tech, and they quickly get overwhelmed. Also, I ignore a lot of units and just quickly pound down their hive/pyramid and thats pretty much gg. Easy to switch to voids/colossus after that, and then finish the mop up.

I am still kind of shocked at how many players I attack with 12+ zealots and they only have like 4 units. I like watching them helpless try to micro me, while I have 8 take down the base, with 4 micro attacking.

Someone add me as a Friend: Ixtellor if I have a good partner I never lose at my skill level.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:02 am UTC

The campaign system has it's flaws. If you take missions in the wrong order, they can become almost ridiculously easy.

Spoiler:
Siding with the Protoss and killing the infested

when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:29 am UTC

The Dark Templar are kind of mystical, so since all the missions are just following Zeratul it made the Protoss appear more fantastical. Their society has been fairly broken apart since Brood War though.
You, sir, name? wrote:when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.

I'm pretty sure that's not possible unless you're playing from the level select after you've finished the campaign, and only if you chose the other path. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Eseell » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:34 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:The campaign system has it's flaws. If you take missions in the wrong order, they can become almost ridiculously easy.

Spoiler:
Siding with the Protoss and killing the infested

when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.

Yeah, I did the same thing with banshees. God damn I love banshees.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby phlip » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:38 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:The campaign system has it's flaws. If you take missions in the wrong order, they can become almost ridiculously easy.

Spoiler:
Siding with the Protoss and killing the infested

when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.

But isn't that the mission that unlocks siege tanks? Or am I misremembering? 'Cause delaying that mission would make that mission easier, sure, but it'd mean you'd have to do even more other missions without tanks...

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:41 am UTC

psion wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.

I'm pretty sure that's not possible unless you're playing from the level select after you've finished the campaign, and only if you chose the other path. Correct me if I'm wrong.


It's quite possible. Only missions from the same mission-giver depend on each other. I simply did all of Tosh', Horner's, and most of Tychus' missions before I did the last of Dr. Hanson's missions. So I had wraiths, thors and nukes.

phlip wrote:But isn't that the mission that unlocks siege tanks? Or am I misremembering? 'Cause delaying that mission would make that mission easier, sure, but it'd mean you'd have to do even more other missions without tanks...


No. It's the one that grants you Vikings.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby achan1058 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:41 am UTC

phlip wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:The campaign system has it's flaws. If you take missions in the wrong order, they can become almost ridiculously easy.

Spoiler:
Siding with the Protoss and killing the infested

when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.

But isn't that the mission that unlocks siege tanks? Or am I misremembering? 'Cause delaying that mission would make that mission easier, sure, but it'd mean you'd have to do even more other missions without tanks...
No, that mission unlock viking, IIRC.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Diadem » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:26 am UTC

Yeah changing the order can really make the game easier.

I totally got my ass handed to me on The Great Train Robbery on brutal the first time I tried it. Thought it would be easy 'cause it's very easy on hard. But brutal there's less time in between trains, they move faster, there's two marauder kill squads, and they are huge. I had a huge army but when they start powering up their trains they are just too damn fast, and half of the time you can't even reach them because of those marauder squads.

So I did some other missions first, and just redid it, now with siege tanks and lots of tech upgrades. Automated refineries and instant supply depos and orbital command really gave my economy a kickstart. I never seemed to run of of cash. And siege tanks rule that map. Those marauder squads just melt away, I killed both just out of spite, and trains die before reaching your tanks too. It's simply unfair.

So yeah, taking missions in the right order can really help. In particular you should do all the zeratul missions asap, since all upgrades and tech don't help there (they only affect terran units), but you do gain a lot of tech during those missions.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby WarDaft » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:33 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:The campaign system has it's flaws. If you take missions in the wrong order, they can become almost ridiculously easy.

Spoiler:
Siding with the Protoss and killing the infested

when you've got wraiths makes the mission EXTREMELY easy. They have no detection capabilities to speak of, and anti-air is weak as hell.

It's totally easy just by massing Vikings too.

So is the other choice.


Even on Brutal.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Texas_Ben » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:59 am UTC

Diadem wrote:I totally got my ass handed to me on The Great Train Robbery on brutal the first time I tried it. Thought it would be easy 'cause it's very easy on hard. But brutal there's less time in between trains, they move faster, there's two marauder kill squads, and they are huge. I had a huge army but when they start powering up their trains they are just too damn fast, and half of the time you can't even reach them because of those marauder squads.

Permacloaked ghosts + seige tanks are delicious.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Kain » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:12 pm UTC

So, does anyone know if the Hard/Brutal 5/10/15/20/25 or whatever achievements are only supposed to be awarded for completion of missions from the starmap/equivalent, or if that is a bug? As it stands, completing a mission on hard/brutal from the mission archive does not seem to count (though it does for completionist) even though it is very hard to see what the big difference is (as tech upgrades do not carry over).

As a side thought, anyone think that maybe in the original design, the upgrades applied to the archived missions as well?
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby WaterToFire » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:11 pm UTC

So, question for all you people who have the game.

My brother and I both very much like Starcraft, and want to get the sequel. He's seven years younger than me, so our skill levels are not exactly matched. How will this work with the whole Battle.Net login tied to your activation key thing? Can we each have our own accounts for purposes of league, division, and rank, or will we be forced to use the same one unless we each buy a copy?

I hope and expect that the former is true, but I want to make sure before buying.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Xeio » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:14 pm UTC

The latter, one account per key. Though, I've never tried to register the key on a second account, so it's possible but unlikely it works.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby WaterToFire » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:50 pm UTC

That is so obnoxious. Listen, Blizzard-Activision: I hate you.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Texas_Ben » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:01 pm UTC

WaterToFire wrote:That is so obnoxious. Listen, Blizzard-Activision: I hate you.

They can't hear you over the sound of ALL THAT MONEY

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby sunami » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:37 pm UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:
WaterToFire wrote:That is so obnoxious. Listen, Blizzard-Activision: I hate you.

They can't hear you over the sound of ALL THAT MONEY

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Xeio » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:53 pm UTC


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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:06 pm UTC

Grargh, USPS doesnt have my starcraft until tomorrow, and my computer goes back to HP today!

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:56 pm UTC

This game rocks! Been playing in all my free time that I haven't been raiding :) (Making that 8 hour achievement even more appropriate).

They've done an amazing job making the campaign levels interesting instead of just 20 levels of 'here's a new unit, now kill the enemy again'. I really really enjoyed the last Tosh level (both versions, but I liked Tosh's slightly better), and ought to be finishing up the campaign on hard tonight before raid time (with all the mission achieves... some of those were quite challenging).

I also really like how some missions require more clever solutions than simply overwhelming the enemy. I think I lost about 5 times before figuring out
Spoiler:
to blink over the destructable rocks at the end of

the first Zeratul mission, or
Spoiler:
to get vision with Vikings and kill buildings with the laser

to get the achievement on The Dig
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Dark567 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:50 pm UTC

I am ranked number 1 in my 1v1 Gold League. This is mostly just due to my build order with the protoss, I usually have about 5 or 6 Zealots in the first 240 seconds and go for their economy. Usually this will put them on the defense for the rest of the game allowing me to win.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby rigwarl » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:49 pm UTC

you have to lose a game. don't worry about it, just play normally and it'll probably happen eventually


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