Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Xeio » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:12 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:That's why I haven't played more than my first placement game. I won it and everything, but I want to enjoy the game, and hammering out "9Pylon12Gateway14Assimilator16Pylon..." just doesn't grab me.
Play as terran in FFA till you get a map with an island, liftoff, land on island, produce nukes. NUKE EVERYTHING. Die a horrible death. Laugh.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Kain » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:02 pm UTC

I now have can use a portrait of a zealot wearing a chef's hat. Yay Blizzard! (Totally didn't know about this until I played a 2v2 where both enemies had that portrait. Thought I was going insane.)
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:44 pm UTC

Are ghosts useful in TvT? I'm mostly thinking of EMPing medivacs, which I feel would significantly impair enemy bioballs. But I'm not sure if it's cost effective, as academy+2-3 ghosts is a fairly hefty amount of money.

Xeio wrote:
Goldstein wrote:That's why I haven't played more than my first placement game. I won it and everything, but I want to enjoy the game, and hammering out "9Pylon12Gateway14Assimilator16Pylon..." just doesn't grab me.
Play as terran in FFA till you get a map with an island, liftoff, land on island, produce nukes. NUKE EVERYTHING. Die a horrible death. Laugh.


Mass raven is also a FFA classic. Their turret carpet is a serious headache to deal with, as all of their kills are essentially free. Everything that can kill ravens is either dies rather horribly from HSMs, or can be stopped with PDDs and turrets. I think ghosts are one of few relatively good countermeasures to this, though.

+++

Unrelated matter: I was up against a really strange player today. I attacked him with two cloaked banshees. He just sat there, watching his SCVs die one by one. Then he moved in some marines, and allowed me to kill those too. Then he scanned, and I moved away. Then I came back and killed some more SCVs, no reaction. Then I killed his expansion, and he just kept sending like 10 tanks and 20 marines at the banshees, most of which died horribly. Then I felt bad for him, returned the banshees and allowed him to expand, and destroyed him with MMMST instead.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby BlackSails » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:46 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Are ghosts useful in TvT? I'm mostly thinking of EMPing medivacs, which I feel would significantly impair enemy bioballs. But I'm not sure if it's cost effective, as academy+2-3 ghosts is a fairly hefty amount of money.


They are very effective. Nukes can be the deciding factor in pushing your tank line forward, since you can nuke the enemy tank line and force them to unsiege and move back. There are also marine/ghost builds that use ghosts to pick off marines and marauders with snipe. which is very very effective in an early push.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:41 am UTC

Heh. I saw a korean game ages ago where one player was cheesing the hell out of the other guy with a hidden academy, proxy barracks ghost rush. Those sniper bullets are so nasty.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby sunami » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:22 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Heh. I saw a korean game ages ago where one player was cheesing the hell out of the other guy with a hidden academy, proxy barracks ghost rush. Those sniper bullets are so nasty.

So confused; What I thought you meant:
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:27 pm UTC

sunami wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:Heh. I saw a korean game ages ago where one player was cheesing the hell out of the other guy with a hidden academy, proxy barracks ghost rush. Those sniper bullets are so nasty.

So confused; What I thought you meant:
Image


Same here. Sniper bullets? Uhhh??? Does he mean lockdown?

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:29 pm UTC

Yeah, those aren't actually part of SC2, you know. I suppose you could call ghost academies "haunted houses", but it doesn't really shorten the word.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:31 pm UTC

I never liked the old academies anyway. Spectres are never built by me either, but I should try doing the nuke island thing. That sounds fun :D

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby BlackSails » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:53 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:I never liked the old academies anyway. Spectres are never built by me either, but I should try doing the nuke island thing. That sounds fun :D


Yeah, I dont build spectres ever actually, seeing as how they dont exist in multiplayer....

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:58 pm UTC

Whoops, been playing the campaign the past couple nights and I got spectres on mah brain.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:02 pm UTC

Speaking of which, why must Heart of the Swarm be so far away? :'(
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby TheBanana » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:13 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:Speaking of which, why must Heart of the Swarm be so far away? :'(


Seriously. I want more units and more storyline progression.

Spoiler:
Also want to find out if Kerrigan is good or bad in the next game.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:23 pm UTC

That game... You know that game, where you end up base trading half an hour in, and you have like an 140 supply army that's slow, and he has a 20 supply army that's fast. And then the opponent spends another half hour building command centers and flying them off into every nook and crevice on the map? You know, this game?

argh.png


Argh!
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby WarDaft » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:19 pm UTC

Ironically, Terrans have it easiest against said strategy.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Sensor_tower
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:31 pm UTC

WarDaft wrote:Ironically, Terrans have it easiest against said strategy.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Sensor_tower


This was one of those absolutely humongous maps, and I had a mind-bogglingly slow army consisting of tanks, thors and battlecruisers. He had 30 or so marines, which are like jet fighters in speed comparison. I had 2 or 3 vikings, but they were damn vulnerable with those marines around.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Jesse » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:07 pm UTC

Ha, so I played again for the first time in a month, decided to try 4-Gating as 'Toss, because it looks like fun. So, placement match, hitting my timings fine, but seem to have an excess of minerals, go to get warp gate tech and then realise that I forgot to build the assimilator. What an absolute spenk! Can't believe I forgot to do that, laughed pretty hard and told my opponent who laughed as well. Second game I got 4-Gated by someone who had clearly been doing it longer than me, so switched back to Terran afterwards to see if I could win a game.

First TvP, went for a stim timing attack only to be reminded that they've made stim take forever when my normally strong attack was crushed by immortals and stalkers. Second game was a TvT that I lost, but would have won had I paid more attention to the minimap and seen him moving his army out, or if I'd remembered to research cloak on my banshees, as it was I got spanked and then headed off to watch 30 Rock. So yeah, not the grand return to my laddering I'd hoped for, but it was pretty funny anyways.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:02 pm UTC

The replay viewer seems to have seen some patching. Or maybe these features were around earlier, and I didn't know. Try pressing like Ctrl+M, Ctrl+A, Ctrl+I, hotkeys like that bring up various overlays.

Also, I'm slowly improving again. My APM has doubled this week. Not quite back at the 80 I used to pull yet, but we're getting there.

Right now I'm focusing mainly on improving my macro, as my money was creeping kinda embarrassingly high. Really, you're gonna cringe if you read this
Spoiler:
At one game, I lost with over 5000 minerals in the bank and I was nowhere near the supply cap.


When that is better, I need to work on my builds as well. Right now I really don't have so much as builds, as much as buildings that are randomly thrown down because they'll probably be useful at some point or whatever. I can't believe how often I forget stuff. And not even like supply depots, but like building a second barracks, or getting gas.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:32 pm UTC

So, I'm trying a canon rush build. I don't know jack about canon rushing and don't really know how to improve my stuff.
Replay: first time I managed to canon rush with actual success (taking out 2 nexuses and thus 2 players out of 4). Could a kind, competent soul watch it and point out the flaws?
Replay link: http://www.qfpost.com/download.do?get=4 ... b796199fd0

(yes, this strategy is terrible, yes it's not going to work past gold, no I don't care)

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:32 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:(yes, this strategy is terrible, yes it's not going to work past gold, no I don't care)


It also makes you a terrible person. Imagine Hitler pirating a copy of SC2, and installing it on a computer he stole from a crying baby, and then transitions from reaper harass into hellion drops into banshee harass. You're worse than that if you cannon rush.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:45 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:It also makes you a terrible person. Imagine Hitler pirating a copy of SC2


But SC2 has DRM!

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby WarDaft » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:50 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:It also makes you a terrible person. Imagine Hitler pirating a copy of SC2, and installing it on a computer he stole from a crying baby, and then transitions from reaper harass into hellion drops into banshee harass. You're worse than that if you cannon rush.


Translation: Keep up the good work!
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:54 pm UTC

It's also not hard to stop. Lay down two spine crawlers then fast tech to nydus and drop speedlings on their main.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:51 am UTC

Does anyone have any ideas on how to change races? I'm considering going P, but I have no idea where to start.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby psion » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:07 am UTC

Click on the Protoss button.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:55 am UTC

psion wrote:Click on the Protoss button.


How do I not die in a fire? With Terran I had the whole single player campaign teaching me how to play the race (to some extent, as SP does teach you plenty of bad habits). I've tried playing a few protoss games, and they really didn't go spectacularly. I have a vague idea of what I need to do in PvT, but in PvP and PvZ I'm completely lost.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:32 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
psion wrote:Click on the Protoss button.


How do I not die in a fire? With Terran I had the whole single player campaign teaching me how to play the race (to some extent, as SP does teach you plenty of bad habits). I've tried playing a few protoss games, and they really didn't go spectacularly. I have a vague idea of what I need to do in PvT, but in PvP and PvZ I'm completely lost.

When I switched to Zerg I did it by finding few good Zerg players who had a play style I wanted to imitate (Primarily IdrA) and started watching their replays.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby yurell » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:48 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:How do I not die in a fire? With Terran I had the whole single player campaign teaching me how to play the race (to some extent, as SP does teach you plenty of bad habits). I've tried playing a few protoss games, and they really didn't go spectacularly. I have a vague idea of what I need to do in PvT, but in PvP and PvZ I'm completely lost.


First, I would suggest watching a few replays, just to see what Protoss generally do. Then, start a few games against the AI just to practise the early game, just quitting after the first ten minutes, to help you get the early build down. After that, play a few games and lose. Repeatedly. It's something that you'l be good at (having little experience with the race) and importantly it will help you learn - you'll be able to see that "Oh, A didn't work ... maybe next time I'll try B".

When switching a race, it is inevitable you will lose games. Don't focus on this, these are things the other guy is doing, focus on the things you're doing, and set goals for yourself. Look at your macro - does it need more work? Okay, that's something on which to work. Are you always missing a specific pylon? That's something to work on. The important thing is, if these problems are cropping up in the first ten minutes of the game (or perhaps the first eight), these are things that can be worked against the AI (since the AI, like most players, won't attack you before then). Eventually you will have to focus on what your opponent is doing as you get better, but it is most important to know what you're doing. If you have friends that play the races you're having trouble with, practise against them.

Losing isn't everything - it's a learning exercise. Just set your goal when you start. If you say "I will not let my minerals go above 500", and you make sure you don't, then it doesn't matter if you're killed or not because you achieved your goal. And when you're regularly achieving your goals, you'll find your wins will just start coming as you become better and more confident.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby achan1058 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:13 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
psion wrote:Click on the Protoss button.


How do I not die in a fire? With Terran I had the whole single player campaign teaching me how to play the race (to some extent, as SP does teach you plenty of bad habits). I've tried playing a few protoss games, and they really didn't go spectacularly. I have a vague idea of what I need to do in PvT, but in PvP and PvZ I'm completely lost.
Depends on your league, I guess. There's a thread on Reddit of some guys using just macro and build nothing but stalkers and roflstomping everyone who isn't diamond or above. If you are diamond, then chances are you will know what build they are using. If all else fails, I guess there's 4 warpgate.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:21 am UTC

No advice on canon rushing :( ?

For P try the specialist challenge, and learn how to use sentries/HTs.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Jesse » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:06 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Does anyone have any ideas on how to change races? I'm considering going P, but I have no idea where to start.


Make pylons, make probes.

The most important thing to be aware of is that the shortcuts all change, so E will build a harvester instead of S. Not noticing that at first completely screwed me when I first switched. But yeah, find a few 'Toss players you like and watch what they do early game. Also when you've been playing as Terran did you notice the 'toss doing anything particularly effective against you? If so, do that.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby psion » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:17 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:No advice on canon rushing :( ?

Bring more probes? It's pretty basic, there's nothing to improve upon besides perfect placement, which depends on the map.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:09 am UTC

I AW NOW MIGHTY PLATINUM
PREPARE REAR FOR PHOTON CANON ENTRY, PLATINUM PLAYERS

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:21 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:So, I'm trying a canon rush build.

1 day later
Menacing Spike wrote:I AW NOW MIGHTY PLATINUM



Go figure
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:24 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:So, I'm trying a canon rush build.

1 day later
Menacing Spike wrote:I AW NOW MIGHTY PLATINUM



Go figure


Eeeh, most of the victories are either speedling swamp or reapers.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:04 pm UTC

I've tried to open a Protoss game a few times, but there's this bump between my first pylon and the probe that comes after it. Either the probe is delayed due to lack of money, or I'm supply blocked. Just for a few seconds, but still I was like... eww, and figured I was doing something wrong, and checked a few replays, and it seems that other people are getting this as well.

Is this really the way things are in protoss, or were the replays I was checking out done by scrubs who hadn't figured out how to open protoss smoothly?
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby BlackSails » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:35 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:I've tried to open a Protoss game a few times, but there's this bump between my first pylon and the probe that comes after it. Either the probe is delayed due to lack of money, or I'm supply blocked. Just for a few seconds, but still I was like... eww, and figured I was doing something wrong, and checked a few replays, and it seems that other people are getting this as well.

Is this really the way things are in protoss, or were the replays I was checking out done by scrubs who hadn't figured out how to open protoss smoothly?


Protoss and zerg both need to halt worker production to get the first supply unit/structure out.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Robstickle » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:27 pm UTC

Yeah your days of constant worker production are over.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:32 pm UTC

That's so icky.

I tried to 3gate robo against a medium terran AI but just kinda 3 gated and didn't have enough units and died :-(
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby achan1058 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:24 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:I've tried to open a Protoss game a few times, but there's this bump between my first pylon and the probe that comes after it. Either the probe is delayed due to lack of money, or I'm supply blocked. Just for a few seconds, but still I was like... eww, and figured I was doing something wrong, and checked a few replays, and it seems that other people are getting this as well.

Is this really the way things are in protoss, or were the replays I was checking out done by scrubs who hadn't figured out how to open protoss smoothly?
After 9 pylon, you will have a small gap at 10 supply which is unavoidable. The only thing to note is not to chronoboost too early so that you waste it while you are supply blocked.


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