Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Kain » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:31 pm UTC

RPPR

Real Players Play Random :)
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

But one of the better ways to learn to play a competent Random is to learn one race first. Then, once you are at least half decent, pick another race and learn it. Finally, pick up the third race.

After you have all 3 under your belt, start playing random and realize you forgot how to play the first race.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Kain » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:34 pm UTC

Oh I know, I was just having a little fun :)

Also, how is it that RPPR isn't a thing? It has a lovely amount of symmetry, and none of the thorny issues that come from using gendered nouns...
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Metaphysician » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:11 am UTC

I am so much better at watching SCII than playing it lol. I did play some ai matches today, beat easy twice, lost to medium once... such a noob. There is SO MUCH SHIT GOING ON.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Metaphysician » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:46 pm UTC

Seems like whenever I check out the forums of any starcraft website, terrans think terrans are UP, toss think toss are UP, and zerg think zerg are UP.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Will » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:10 pm UTC

Metaphysician wrote:Seems like whenever I check out the forums of any starcraft website...

There's your mistake. SC-related forums are pretty much nothing but bitching about balance. And by "balance", I mean: "it's possible for my opponent to win, so they need to buff my race/nerf the other races."

TL has some good discussion if you can learn to ignore the whining. Don't go to Blizz's official forums, though, it's NOTHING but constant bitching.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Adacore » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:22 pm UTC

Metaphysician wrote:Seems like whenever I check out the forums of any starcraft website, terrans think terrans are UP, toss think toss are UP, and zerg think zerg are UP.

If they're complaining in equal measure, that sounds like a good indication that the balance is about right. :D

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:46 pm UTC

Will wrote:TL has some good discussion if you can learn to ignore the whining. Don't go to Blizz's official forums, though, it's NOTHING but constant bitching.


Blizz forums are good for comedic value though. TL is a bit elitist for my taste. They're very "Oh, you're not top 5 GM in KR? Go away, peasant!"

I like /r/AllThingsX (where X in Terran, Zerg, Protoss) on reddit. Nice and constructive. /r/starcraft is mostly garbage though.

--edit--

Oh god. I matched vs a gold league zerg. I beat him to both getting a natural and a third...

--edit--

I think I'm starting to get my macro groove going again. I'm starting to see "Oh me yarm Oh you're money hacking I'm gonna report you lol"
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Eomund » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:23 am UTC

I am thinking of getting this game. Should I? And do I need both wings of liberty and hear of the swarm?

I know they each have their own campaign but do I need both to play online?

I have never played online rts's before. What is the best way to learn how to play? Can I be successful with just trial and error or will I need to read stuff and learn a bunch of stats? What resources would you recommend to a complete n00b to learn the basics? Should I play the campaign first or just jump into online play?

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Xeio » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:00 am UTC

HotS requires WoL to play. You may still be able to play WoL by itself online, but it's probably almost dead if you try.

I may recommend the starter edition which is basically a free demo. You can play the first few missions as well as one or two multiplayer maps for free.

I definitely recommend playing the campaign first, but there are also "training" AI and missions you can play. They'll teach you some things like very basic macro and micro. If you want to get good at it, basically it takes a lot of practice, and looking up videos like Day[9] isn't a bad place to start. I think these require the full game, but I've never used the starter edition so some of it may be available.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Xanthir » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:23 am UTC

I enjoy the game quite a lot, but play virtually no multiplayer. I've just done multiple campaign playthroughs for cheevos and fun, and occasionally play matches against the AI locally.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Nylonathatep » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:54 pm UTC

Eomund wrote:I am thinking of getting this game. Should I? And do I need both wings of liberty and hear of the swarm?

I know they each have their own campaign but do I need both to play online?

I have never played online rts's before. What is the best way to learn how to play? Can I be successful with just trial and error or will I need to read stuff and learn a bunch of stats? What resources would you recommend to a complete n00b to learn the basics? Should I play the campaign first or just jump into online play?


The great thing about SC2 is its user-created content, and I think that has actually outgrown significantly then the Game's RTS element. (More people playing custom maps then matchmaking)

For example there's star-striker (a football game in Sc2), There's Star battle, and My fav ... Mafia (a Party game) :)

(ofcourse there's also the DOTA)

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Eomund » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:53 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:HotS requires WoL to play. You may still be able to play WoL by itself online, but it's probably almost dead if you try.

I may recommend the starter edition which is basically a free demo. You can play the first few missions as well as one or two multiplayer maps for free.

I definitely recommend playing the campaign first, but there are also "training" AI and missions you can play. They'll teach you some things like very basic macro and micro. If you want to get good at it, basically it takes a lot of practice, and looking up videos like Day[9] isn't a bad place to start. I think these require the full game, but I've never used the starter edition so some of it may be available.


Thanks for the link to the demo. I am currently downloading it. :mrgreen:

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:18 pm UTC

I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Eomund » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

Well, I've all of the campaign I can do in the demo and some vs ai stuff.

I have a basic strategy that seems to be working well. (I have beaten harder AI with it).

Spoilered for longness
Spoiler:
What I liked about terrans in sc1 was that they could put up a very good defensive line that would be almost unpenetrable and it seems they have the same ability in sc2. If I tried to just turtle in my own base I will run out of minerals very fast. So I got the idea to put up a defensive line in my opponents natural. I think this is similar to a proxy rush, but I am not exactly sure what that is.

About when I put in the first supply, I send out an scv to scout. Once I've found where they are a build a barracks just outside their natural. I send over another scv to build another barracks. I then put up 2 or 3 bunkers filled with marines inside their natural. I then get a factory or two and start pumping the siege tanks. I try to put the tanks so they blow away anything coming down the ramp out of their base. I usually get some reapers to jump up and spot for the tanks. For aa, I build an engineering bay and some missile turrets. By now, I am looking to expand and usually do so in my opponents 3rd expansion. I then creep up with the tanks, turrets and bunkers. Usually this is good enough to hold whatever they can throw. I sometimes get a couple of vikings up to help with aa and spotting. If I need another expansion I will go to my natural. Before long my tanks are hitting their structures and they are running out of cash.

It seems to work pretty well, but any comments or suggestions would be great.

There is one hole that I see, but it hasn't been exploited yet. They could fly some workers out of their base and set up a new one anywhere or the map. They could then rush my original base as it has zero defense.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:01 am UTC

That's nothing. Try 1v7 insane AI!

(I only managed it as Terran of course)

spoiler: method
Spoiler:
pick map with islands, move to island, use long range units and autoturrets/pdds to tank for you while vikings and missileturret dps, your energy renews but their minerals do not; also it's nerve-wracking as hell

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:35 am UTC

If you want to join the xkcd group channel anyone can temporarily "spawn" you to a full version of the game. Click the group button in the lower right, "find", search "xkcd" and join the chat.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

My win rate in in general, TvZ in particular, is pretty disgusting so far this season.

Image

Feels good, man.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Sytri » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:13 am UTC

Decide to have a quick match last night before heading to the pub. 1v1 Z(me)vP.

He tries to cannon rush me, I spotted it and defended it as by the time he had his first cannons down I had a spine crawler, second hatch and my roach warren. He can't touch me, I destroy his probe and the cannons and with my remaining roaches I head out to finish him off. I get to his base: cannons everywhere with 3 voidrays. Do as much damage as I can, fall back and get hydras. Already upgrading missiles and armor.

I manage to keep him contained to three bases as I take all the others, I have a massive pool of resources and now I sense I'm playing with my food.

Played too long.

I go in for the kill and he has cannons everywhere, with tempests and more voids. My hydras can handle the air units and roaches do decent damage; again, still not enough to break him.

Now here comes the awful part. What I should have done was think: He has air units and cannons galore, lets get some broodlords and corrupters and finish this, you have time as your roaches and hydras have him completely contained.

What I actually did: Lets build an ultralisk den to break through the cannons and use roaches and zerglings as bait whilst my hydras finish off their air units.

Within 10 minutes of that decision I had died as he flew his voids and tempests around my blockade and picked off my spore crawlers and destroyed my bases.

A lesson learned but damn was it painful.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:52 pm UTC

I've played a similar game to that as far back as the beta and as recently as a few weeks ago. SC2 is very much designed around 3 base income being ideal and around asymmetric army power. Thus, a protoss who can get to three bases can sit on it until they build up an unstoppable army. He might have been playing with you the whole time rather than the other way around. Maybe even a troll that games the system to play weaker players. You can check their match history and see if any of their losses last for more than a minute, given that they would leave right away to accumulate 'fake' losses to make the match making think that they're lower than they are. To digress a little further, I've talked to several people who do that and they mostly seem to be borderline sociopaths. They've fed me ridiculous lies about why they do it and have little self-awareness, empathy, guilt, and all the other signs of sociopathy. Example:

Spoiler:
This guy asked me to spectate a bronze league bo5 and I wasn't doing anything so I agreed. He messages me after he won:

hydra.jpg


Notice how he was more focused on fishing for praise by asking what league he should be in, rather than any concern over my accusation or the bronze league player he just happily smashed in games very similar to what Sytri played. As for him leaving "a few" games, I checked at least 30 games in his match history and every single loss was less than a minute, roughly 60% winrate. If he's not a compulsive liar then he's gullible and insane. Regardless, he set up the bo5 that he knew he was going to win and wanted an audience. I have other examples, but... anyway...


Funnily enough, brood lord and corruptor probably wouldn't have worked either. Void rays demolish corruptors and tempests were specifically created and designed to kill brood lords. It sounds strange but if they're void ray heavy, infestors work wonders. Chain fungal can kill as many void rays as they decide to clump up for you. If you go that route don't forget neural either, in case there's a carrier follow-up or other juicy neural targets. Equally strange, queens are the most cost efficient antiair unit for zerg and their speed and production rate are the only issues.

Swarm hosts can peck away at them while they're trying to amass their army, and as long as you have plenty of antiair over your swarm hosts (spores, queens, hydra, corruptor) it becomes a long slugfest where you should slowly gain an advantage.

Delaying or denying the third is a good investment (burrow helps). The strategy relies a lot on securing the third fairly early. Sometimes they'll get so desperate to get the third that you can slip a group of lings into their main. Otherwise you can try and kill them somewhere around 12-14 minutes where they're at their weakest. Ventral sacks or nydus is really handy for that. For example, drop a ton of zerglings into the main, and when they come to defend it hit the third with roaches and hydras, stringing his army around while destroying vital structures. It's very difficult to execute but it can be a blast.

Just be sure if you decide to do any of that that you commit to it. Doing a little bit of everything will usually be too ineffectual, and when protoss gets that maxed army it really can be unstoppable for zerg.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Sytri » Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:27 pm UTC

Got accused of six pooling last night because I had a lot better control than my other zerg opponent. My overlord was at his main before he had a spawning pool. At which time I had a pool and a hatchery. Felt good to play a match where I was clearly better and not just being messed around. Hoping I get get some more game time in this weekend and get into silver at least.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:08 pm UTC

I once got accused of using a money hack.

I guess that's a pretty nice compliment to my macro (and/or MULEs).
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:52 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:I once got accused of using a money hack.


This happened a few times to me in Dota but never in SC2. I need to either step up my macro, or find dumber opponents.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby yurell » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:12 pm UTC

I love 'you couldn't possibly afford this' when you're six-base to their one-base.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:32 pm UTC

How do you get to the point where you are six-base to their one-base?

I mean, in the time it takes for them to mine out, how (and why?) do you manage to invest that much in bases? Are they on their second base?
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:53 am UTC

Yakk wrote:How do you get to the point where you are six-base to their one-base?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbxY-7hvtCg

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby yurell » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:08 am UTC

Yakk wrote:How do you get to the point where you are six-base to their one-base?

I mean, in the time it takes for them to mine out, how (and why?) do you manage to invest that much in bases? Are they on their second base?


I was Zerg vs a Terran in WoL Bronze. Terran never threw anything at me, so I just kept expanding. TBH, it says nothing about my skill but of their incompetence; I just thought it was funny that they accused me of cheating.

Edit: Also, I was bad enough to not know how to fight it
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:24 pm UTC

how to beat a cannon rush

the video turned out better than expected

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Kain » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:13 pm UTC

I thought for sure that last pylon they built was going to be a cannon. I mean, really, why bother making another pylon when you see that you are being all-in'd?
In any case, nice video, and a rather amusing turnabout.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:23 am UTC

Just played several amusing 2v2s where the core strategy was to send at least two starting workers for harass while macroing behind it. We ended up facing and beating an axiom and complexity GM 2v2 team before we even got placed. We're now rocking platinum league 2v2.
Attachments
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby |Erasmus| » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:Decide to have a quick match last night before heading to the pub. 1v1 Z(me)vP.

He tries to cannon rush me, I spotted it and defended it as by the time he had his first cannons down I had a spine crawler, second hatch and my roach warren. He can't touch me, I destroy his probe and the cannons and with my remaining roaches I head out to finish him off. I get to his base: cannons everywhere with 3 voidrays. Do as much damage as I can, fall back and get hydras. Already upgrading missiles and armor.

I manage to keep him contained to three bases as I take all the others, I have a massive pool of resources and now I sense I'm playing with my food.

Played too long.

I go in for the kill and he has cannons everywhere, with tempests and more voids. My hydras can handle the air units and roaches do decent damage; again, still not enough to break him.

Now here comes the awful part. What I should have done was think: He has air units and cannons galore, lets get some broodlords and corrupters and finish this, you have time as your roaches and hydras have him completely contained.

What I actually did: Lets build an ultralisk den to break through the cannons and use roaches and zerglings as bait whilst my hydras finish off their air units.

Within 10 minutes of that decision I had died as he flew his voids and tempests around my blockade and picked off my spore crawlers and destroyed my bases.

A lesson learned but damn was it painful.


Actually, you'd be surprised just how horrible corruptors are vs. void rays... You should make swarm hosts to siege down the cannon lines and just queen/hydra/infestor to deal with his air units.

You, sir, name? wrote:I like ravens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpKwmIGIbyY

As do I

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Xenomortis » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:09 am UTC

Hydras, Infestors, Mutalisks, Queens, and Zerglings ( :D ) all do better against Void Rays than Corruptors.

As a rule, if it's "Armoured", it dies to Void Rays.
Image

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:36 pm UTC

Ultralisks do better against Void Rays than Corruptors, and they are armored! (I mean, Corruptors just lose, but Ultralisks lose and destroy some buildings first).

Heck, Battlecruisers do better against VR than Corruptors (supply for supply they win (3:2 ratio), gas-for-gas they lose (2:1 ratio)), but that is academic (as a protoss will mix in some tempests, and (tempests > VR) against BCs -- similar DPS as an aligned VR, 2.5x the range, 2x the durability).
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:50 pm UTC

many thanks for that edit

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Sytri » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:54 am UTC

I would like to opint out that the corruptors were for the other flyers he had and to morph to brrodlords to take down his cannons. I had enough hydras to keep his voids at a minimum for a while. My problem was that I went all ground for some reason rather than adding air units.

Is that right thinking or should I have just played better on the ground?
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:49 pm UTC

I would say that for the most part, flying and ground units aren't different theatres of war. In Supreme Commander there's land, air and navy, and they can assist one another but they all generally exist in their own bubble and fight the opponent's counterpart. In SC2, the difference in a flying and ground unit is much more muted, it's more about the utility and pathing mechanics (unit stacking mainly, a trade-off of being vulnerable to aoe and having all units firing simultaneously) of having a flying unit and having the right tool for the right job. If hydras were flying units or void rays were ground units, it wouldn't make too much of a difference as to whether or not you would want to build them... At least not as much as I assume you think.

I've seen people say that they're going to "go air" or "go ground" but it has never made much sense. Every single unit in the game has a very different application, and having strength in the air or on the ground usually doesn't account for too much.

That said, did you use the right tools? I don't know. Verbal communication of a game of SC2 isn't sufficient enough for me to even begin to discuss that, especially across the wide array of skill levels. If it is just about winning though, chances are that it wasn't so much about the units you chose to make, but the choices you neglected to make in other areas much earlier in the game. Idle larva, as an example.
Last edited by Koa on Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:59 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Spambot5546 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:59 pm UTC

It's basically like having the flying attribute in MTG, except you can't block land creatures.
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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

Koa wrote:I've seen people say that they're going to "go air" or "go ground" but it has never made much sense. Every single unit in the game has a very different application, and having strength in the air or on the ground usually doesn't account for too much.


When you're not playing against Protoss, a flying attack against an enemy base with heavy ground defences or a ground attack against one with good anti-air blanks most of their defences, while a mixed attack group will always get hurt by defensive fire.

Of course, if your opponent is any good, then their defences will be set up so that they don't just crumble to a relatively light specialist attack...

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Yakk » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:09 pm UTC

Static defences are almost always speedbumps.

In a team game, a protoss player specializing in air, robo or templar units lets them climb the tech tree and get upgrades much faster. Three players each doing one of those three branches can generate an "end game" mixed and upgraded army far faster than three players doing all three branches.

Against Zerg and Protoss, the enemy has to invest a sigificant amount of effort getting units that can shoot at air. Protoss needs air units or stalkers: stalkers, other than shooting up, suck, and barely win against Protoss VR or Phoenix units anyhow. Robo tech for Protoss is nearly completely negated by a player "going air".

Zerg needs air units or Hydras. Zergs ability to adapt makes this less of a problem. On the other hand, Zerg mutalisk play gets completely shut down by Protoss phoenix, and without Phoenix the Zerg mutalisks are hard to deal with as a Protoss player.

Only Terran cares little if their targets are up or down, because Terran has only a few units that don't shoot up (tanks, hellions and bats, and marauders), their cheap unit is a ridiculously strong anti-air unit, and *every one* of their production buildings has a unit that shoots up.
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Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

Postby Koa » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:05 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:In a team game, a protoss player specializing in air, robo or templar units lets them climb the tech tree and get upgrades much faster. Three players each doing one of those three branches can generate an "end game" mixed and upgraded army far faster than three players doing all three branches.

I agree. That's true of protoss overall and most evident in PvP. Pick a tech and put it to use immediately. More tech is more expensive but expands your versatility, and the point at which that expensive is acceptable is dependent upon the economic (one base, one tech choice preferably) and strategic (I need observers or I'm dead) state of the game.

In 1v1, a few tempests in the late game are great because of their incredible range and not because they strengthen your air prowess. It's the utility of the unit, and the fact that it flies is fairly unimportant. It could be another tag like "light" or "biological". No one says "I'm going light units".

In 4v4 it's much more murky and I would probably only build tempests to counter the opponent. I would prefer more blunt force than utility.

Yakk wrote:Against Zerg and Protoss, the enemy has to invest a sigificant amount of effort getting units that can shoot at air.

Now that is mostly a team game thing, especially 4v4. With expectedly poor communication and being (by yourself) incapable of knowing and focusing on what the other seven players are doing at any given time, a bunch of void rays can come out of the fog of war and ruin your day. Trying to fight off what you couldn't have been prepared for is the crapshoot of 4v4 and does make terran look much more versatile in the case of shooting up. A marine walked into a bar...

When you can possibly prepare for it, ironically, TvT has the highest strategic benefit of having air units and air control. Being able to pick away at medivacs and shut down drops (directly on the army or otherwise), provide tank vision, and pave the way for banshees or battlecruisers makes viking numbers fairly important at times.

The utility that the unit provides and how it interacts with the opponent's capability usually becomes a far more important factor than whether or not it can fly. A two base sentry immortal all in wins against any sort of muta strategy despite the weak antiair. A chargelot timing can crush a stargate phoenix opening.

If you haven't seen those things you might have a strange idea of the reasons behind that. You might simulate equal supply and equal cost of mass phoenix numbers lifting mass zealots, calculating the most efficient number of simultaneous graviton beams, and overvaluing the importance of potential structural damages all while inside a vacuum. Of course I don't care if you want to spend your time simulating a bunch of nonsense, but maybe my "show-and-tell masturbation" comment from before makes a little more sense. Academic indeed; irrefutable yet irrelevant. It wouldn't look like that whatsoever. I'm pretty glad that the game isn't so simple. It would be solved in a week.

edit: Though... Now that I think about it... It does make a lot more sense if your whole perspective of the game is limited to the one base no expand, 4v4 monobattles thing you were doing when we played. Almost no economic or strategic variances. One unit, maybe two in the whole game per player clashing against the other... Hm.

edit2: Yeah. I went through the build orders of your games. Mass one unit, build workers haphazardly, expand when your macro slips too much, and then switch into your second unit until the game ends. If that's all you think SC2 is then it makes a lot of sense to me why you think what you say. I don't know why I didn't consider that sooner.

edit3: So, no reply. Then I would guess that this post looks like an ad hominem attack from an elitist asshole. Presuming it's right and you don't watch or play or think about the game apart from those that you play with your colleagues, it does make a big difference. You're correct in a very different context rather than misleading and inconsistent (things that make me bristle). I've got nothing against people playing the game in different ways, but talking about Fastest Map Possible strategies and never stipulating that they're for Fastest Map Possible... it's not the first assumption. Even saying "4v4" isn't enough context, as I said that it's far closer to monobattles with how you approach the game.

On a lighter note, those IEM finals games were entertaining... in a funny sort of way.
Spoiler:
Naniwa was playing extremely passively for some reason, and Life saw that as weakness and played very inefficiently. Naniwa would take incredibly cost efficient battles and win a game that Life wasn't taking seriously. The crowd goes wild.


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