THEN WHY DO PROTOSS SPAM STALKERS EVEN IN THE FACE OF COUNTERS TO STALKERS?
Yakk wrote:Protoss build tonnes of stalkers because it is among one of the best "general purpose" units they have, not because stalkers are good units.
Because zealots suck as much as stalkers, and sentries are hard to use and/or they already have enough sentries to the casting they need?
Why are they making more Stalkers when the Terran is almost pure Marauder/Medivac? Why aren't they making more Chargelots and more Archons? There is no air to worry about, and archons can handle the medivacs as well as the marauders (so can the sentries.)
Archons are ridiculously expensive. Chargelots are melee units, and melee units don't scale well because the AI brings them in on columns (making their micro really hard), and their max damage output is bounded by surface area while your opponents range 5 unit damage output is bounded by a depth 5 surface area. Linear vs quadratic power scaling.
Sentries are very good casters, and T1/2 protoss suck because they have sentry support. Nobody else has anywhere near a unit as strong as the protoss sentry in T1/T2.
And you continue to compare units on a unit-per-unit basis for whatever reason.
And HuK's stalkers are great with his insane micro, but his sentries are godly.
One Archon (dark templar route) is 250 minerals 250 gas (generally considered cheaper than 100 minerals 300 gas templar based one, because gas is worth more than 3 times as much as minerals) and 4 supply (or 50 minerals worth of supply).
One stalker is 125 minerals 50 gas and 2 supply (or 25 minerals worth of supply).
At a cheap 3 gas:1 mineral, that's 1050 minerals vs 300 minerals, or 1 archon is worth 3.5 stalkers. So let's look at 1/3.5th of an archon.
10/35th of an Archon DPS is 8.8 with splash, and HP is 102.8. +0.65 DPS per upgrade.
One Stalker is 10.9 against armored (which roaches are), and HP is 160. +0.7 DPS per upgrade.
Stalkers have a point of armor by default on half their HP.
Defensive upgrades on the Archon require shield upgrades.
Colossi aren't great vs Roaches to begin with (unless you have several)
Collossi are decent against Roaches. Sure, it takes more than one round to drop them -- but with low Roach DPS, you have lots of rounds to do it.
Hell, in team games: why do Protoss spam Stalkers constantly, regardless of enemy team composition?
Because Stalkers, like Marines, are ground units that attack air. And they aren't hard to use like sentries.
Stalkers are the only
protoss ground unit that attacks air. So a protoss player either has to build air-to-air power (and lose against ground that attacks air, like marines or stalkers), or rely on allies to be able to defend against air attacks.
Their damage isn't even terrible - it's just not amazing like the Thor's ground DPS or a stimmed Marine's.
Their damage is great, except they are a unit that costs a huge amount. They are the most expensive T1/2 unit in the game. And their damage output per second is the same as the 2nd cheapest T1 unit in the game. (and I'm not talking about stim)
Throw 50 stalkers against 50 T1/2 units and the 50 stalkers do great
(except maybe marauders). But the cost-to-cost level is more like 25 stalkers against 50-75 T1/T2 units, and that is why stalkers are far from overpowered.
the Marauder is doing MORE damage per second than the Marine is doing
Why do you keep on comparing 1 marine to 1 marauder? Unit to unit comparisons, without paying attention to huge cost differences, are ridiculous. Marauders cost about 3.2 times as much as a Marine.
Marauders are useful for their acceptable anti-armored damage output and concussive shells. Cost-for-cost they aren't that good at tanking. Their DPS against non-armored is abysmal. Against armored, their damage output is acceptable.
Zealots are kind of the other way around, yet are still balanced very well. They do almost as much DPS as the (unstimmed) Marine and Zergling combined,
Lets compare a 1/2 supply 25 mineral unit, a 1 supply 50 mineral unit, and a 2 supply 100 mineral unit on a unit-vs-unit basis.
This sounds like a great idea!
have a ridiculous amount of HP for a minerals-only unit (150 combined, 100 HP 50 Shields),
Or 1.5 HP for every mineral.
A value that zerglings match, by the way.
(Zerglings weakness is the high cost of larva, and choke points. Pack them tightly and splash damage gets them don't pack them tightly and the splash damage attackers get to reload.)
I agree, you see Stalkers (and to a somewhat lesser extent, Roaches) spammed because they're a terrific all-purpose unit.
Roaches aren't all-purpose units. Roaches are anti-ground units.
Zealots aren't underpowered - they're quite possibly the best-balanced unit in the game.
Possibly this is where you are wrong.
Zealots are expensive bullet sponges. Don't get me wrong -- I love them! I love them because the AI is stupid enough to attack my zealots and ignore the units behind the zealots which the AI should be attacking.
It isn't the stalker that is strong, or the zealot. Sure, on a unit-per-unit basis both are decent units -- but they are ridiculously expensive units for their strength. The sentry is the T1/2 protoss unit that is far and above better than any other races T1/T2 unit: so much so that the suck of stalkers and zealots can be made up for.
(Well, that and warpgate research, which gives protoss the ability to exploit successful attacks better than any other race)