League of Legends

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Lostdreams
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Lostdreams » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:40 pm UTC

Yesterday I was in a game with 3 people that trolled then left. They were already at our inhibitors at 16 minutes. When they broke through after an early baron I ran around the nexus and summoners platform attacking them and managed to grab all 5 to an lasery insta death. The minions still finished it though.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby rigwarl » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:59 pm UTC

You pentakilled in a 2v5? That counts as a victory IMO.

Obviously no system will ever please everyone, but I think the surrender function generally serves it's purpose as well as it can: when 4/5 people on a team decide that starting a new game will bring greater enjoyment than continuing the current one, they have the option for it.

Also, learning to play from behind is an integral part of the game, *especially* since it's a team game. What if you're solo'ing top and 0-3 vs their 3-0, but your mid and bottom lanes are both winning? You can't just surrender because you're relying on your opponent to make mistakes (which, as Intrigued pointed out, is basically what you're relying on the entire game starting at level 1 anyway).

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Phrozt » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:00 pm UTC

Marbas wrote:
Every time ppl want to surrender, I say, "how about learning how to play the game instead of running away?"


Actually, not surrendering when you should promotes bad play. In effect, it causes you to start relying on your opponents making mistakes. I find far too often that people who don't understand when to surrender don't actually understand the difference between "I did well" and "The other team fucked up."


For reasons others have pointed out as well as my own, I completely disagree with that statement. Not only do teams learn how to play better, but chars are effective at different stages of the game. Snowballers keep getting better, assassins usually dull over time.. etc.

The only thing surrendering says is that you gave up. That's it. There is no other message there.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Lostdreams » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:30 pm UTC

rigwarl wrote:You pentakilled in a 2v5? That counts as a victory IMO.


Sadly The kills were too far apart to be penta but it was very funny and I really didnt expect to live past the first 10-15 seconds.
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TrlstanC wrote:But, I'm still curious, did no one else ever learn about creationism in science class at some point, at least those who went to public school?

Sorry, we just learned science.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:53 pm UTC

For reasons others have pointed out as well as my own, I completely disagree with that statement. Not only do teams learn how to play better, but chars are effective at different stages of the game. Snowballers keep getting better, assassins usually dull over time.. etc.


Everyone seems to have ignored the "When you should" part of that statement. There's a difference between playing at a disadvantage and "OH GOD WHYYYY?" For example, I'm sick of being in games where it's 4-16 and we have three outer towers of our own down, and none of their towers down, and two morons are like "HEY GUYS WE CAN WIN THIS"

And I'm sorry if you think that's winnable, but really, it's not. Unless the other team is composed entirely of mental cripples, you should not be able to come back from that kind of a disadvantage.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:20 pm UTC

Seriously? 4-16 and 3 towers down? That's so still easily winnable that i'm not sure if you're trying to build a strawman. I've won tons of games like that, so I'm sorry if you think it's not winnable, but really, I've done it, so it is. Just because you've never won something like that (likely because you completely give up) does not make it unwinnable. I think everyone who responded did take into account when you "should" surrender (which is generally never if you want to improve at the game and win more often), in fact, that's exactly what we've been responding to. Sorry if this feels overly harsh, but that's exactly the attitude that loses games that are still winnable and frustrates tons of people. I never understand why people who give up at the drop of a dime even play games like this. If you don't want to challenge yourself, why not just play against bots?

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Re: League of Legends

Postby rigwarl » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:34 pm UTC

If half your team thinks you can still win, then it's likely you can still win. Your example is a pretty large deficit but I've definitely won from much worse scenarios.

On the "I don't understand why people play this game..." topic, I personally don't understand why people who frequently get upset at a loss would play a game where you lose nearly 50% of your games.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:05 pm UTC

Seriously? 4-16 and 3 towers down? That's so still easily winnable that i'm not sure if you're trying to build a strawman. I've won tons of games like that, so I'm sorry if you think it's not winnable, but really, I've done it, so it is


Let me put it this way, I have lost less than twenty times with that kind of a lead. But that's probably because I always queue with at least two other people. And we know how to press an advantage.

I should have specified that the situation have occurred before twenty minutes in my example.

Just because you've never won something like that (likely because you completely give up) does not make it unwinnable.


I have won games like that. Plenty of times. But it wasn't fun, and the problem was, I should not have won those games. I have fun when both teams are demonstrating solid play. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat isn't fun to me unless the game has gone into fifty minutes and we get one of those awesome aces where your carry has free time to knock over EVERYTHING. Because then it's actually a reasonable win. Instead of "HERPDERP their Vayne is dumb so we caught her out of position eight times and now we caught up."

And something like that is exactly what's happening if you're winning games when the enemy gets that kind of a lead.

(which is generally never if you want to improve at the game and win more often)


See, I disagree with that. Playing against bad people builds bad habits, and if you're winning a game when the other team has that kind of a lead, then you're probably playing against people who are substantially worse than you.

I personally don't understand why people who frequently get upset at a loss would play a game where you lose nearly 50% of your games.


My rule is that I'm not allowed to get upset at a loss unless I did something dumb to cause it. My win rate has seemed to consistently hover at fifty-five percent, lately I've been aiming for sixty.
Last edited by Marbas on Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:19 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:15 pm UTC

I agree with Marbas. I don't mind pushing on when 0-5 down and hoping for a better mid game, but when the 20 minute mark hits and things are still looking bad, it's usually better to surrender and stop wasting everyone's time. Coming back from that sort of disadvantage isn't inspiring, it's just a reminder that the team that dicked all over you don't actually know what they're doing. Let me end this game and get on with a good one instead.

But I still don't know what I'm looking at when I see your forum avatar, Marbas.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:21 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:But I still don't know what I'm looking at when I see your forum avatar, Marbas.


Behold!
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:35 pm UTC

Marbas wrote:
Seriously? 4-16 and 3 towers down? That's so still easily winnable that i'm not sure if you're trying to build a strawman. I've won tons of games like that, so I'm sorry if you think it's not winnable, but really, I've done it, so it is


Let me put it this way, I have lost less than twenty times with that kind of a lead. But that's probably because I always queue with at least two other people. And we know how to press an advantage.

I think the argument most people, myself included, would make is that if you lost 20 times with that lead, then it's obviously possible to win against that lead. It's only in a situation where you lose every time you had that lead that surrendering should even be considered.

Half the skill in coming back from behind is learning how to bait those mistakes out of your enemy. Make them feel too confident so they split people off and you get those easy out-of-position kills, or so they push too hard and you get a favourable teamfight. I guess it does somewhat depend on what level you're playing at*, but if you watch the pro games sometimes even really good teams make game-changing mistakes.

*One thing I really noticed around the level 10-20 mark that I assume goes away as people gain experience/skill was that teams get way too overconfident when they've got baron. I think I've won just as many games when the enemy baroned as I've lost, purely because they always overextended thinking the buff made them invulnerable or something, and my team just let them come to us then aced them.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:52 am UTC

Marbas wrote:Let me put it this way, I have lost less than twenty times with that kind of a lead. But that's probably because I always queue with at least two other people. And we know how to press an advantage.


Ah, yes, well I was directly responding to the comment you made that this was "unwinnable". Since you DO still lose those even with a team with great communication and teamwork (which you can't guarantee the other team doesn't have) it's hardly worth calling them unwinnable.

Marbas wrote:I have won games like that. Plenty of times. But it wasn't fun, and the problem was, I should not have won those games. I have fun when both teams are demonstrating solid play. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat isn't fun to me unless the game has gone into fifty minutes and we get one of those awesome aces where your carry has free time to knock over EVERYTHING. Because then it's actually a reasonable win. Instead of "HERPDERP their Vayne is dumb so we caught her out of position eight times and now we caught up."

And something like that is exactly what's happening if you're winning games when the enemy gets that kind of a lead.


Really, it's not always that. You can win key teamfights by pulling off good strategies coming back from 4-16. Even still, even if that were the only kind of win, you're saying that you basically want to play against better players, yet you are purposely surrendering games that aren't necessarily lost. That's backwards logic. If you want to play against better people, you should make every effort to win games that are winnable.

Marbas wrote:See, I disagree with that. Playing against bad people builds bad habits, and if you're winning a game when the other team has that kind of a lead, then you're probably playing against people who are substantially worse than you.


...uhhh? So losing and surrendering against people who are significantly worse than you is better than sticking it out and tightening up your game? If you're losing really badly to people who are substantially worse than you, they really aren't significantly worse than you. Call it a bad game if you want, but doing things badly is what defines being bad, imo. Playing against bad people doesn't build bad habits, never playing with better people repeatedly means you probably won't get better. The best way to stop playing with bad people is to win every game you can and bring up your elo (hidden or not). Surrendering against bad people means you'll be playing against worse people next game.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:14 am UTC

Intrigued wrote:Really, it's not always that. You can win key teamfights by pulling off good strategies coming back from 4-16.


Only if they also pull of exceptionally bad ones. Like not warding appropriately and letting you force fights at Baron. Or other very silly things.

Even still, even if that were the only kind of win, you're saying that you basically want to play against better players, yet you are purposely surrendering games that aren't necessarily lost.


But they are lost. Or rather, I don't want the win anyways. Since I don't want my bad habits being rewarded. More importantly

That's backwards logic. If you want to play against better people, you should make every effort to win games that are winnable.


I don't just want to play against better people. I mainly want to get better. And I want to play against better people consistently. Getting better will let me play against better people faster and more consistently than drawing out games that by all means should be unwinnable. Since, if I win those games, my bad habits will have been rewarded.


Playing against bad people doesn't build bad habits,


I'm sorry, but this is incredibly wrong. I have 6+ years of experience in the competitive fighting game community. And one of the notable constants is that weak regions tend to get weaker and strong ones get stronger. This is because weak regions have a pool of weaker players, and this creates a sort of feedback effect where people can win games in those areas using tactics that are only viable because of the poor quality of the players. So their bad habits get rewarded/go unpunished, which are the same thing with a bad habit, and so they can't win outside their little area.

So losing and surrendering against people who are significantly worse than you is better than sticking it out and tightening up your game?


You're not actually tightening up your game. You only think you are.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby rigwarl » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:27 am UTC

I know what you're saying about bad habits being rewarded but it's completely wrong IMO. LoL is almost exclusively about capitalizing on your opponents mistakes- it has nothing to do with good or bad players, mistakes are made from 500 ELO to 2500 ELO. Ask CLG what determines their matches vs TSM. If you are unable to take advantage of "bad players", what makes you think you can take advantage of good players? Recognizing your opponents' weaknesses and adapting to them is critical at every level.

You posted that you had ~55% winrate earlier- if you are only winning 11/20 games vs these "bad players", I'd say you're in the perfect training grounds to get better. To continue with the console game analogy, if you're beating your "noob" little brother in Street Fighter only 11/20 games, you don't go to train against Daigo. You train against your brother until you can beat him consistently (90%+), then you play in regional tourneys, then in national, etc. Someone who follows this progression will almost certainly improve faster than someone who plays exclusively against Daigo and gets owned every time.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:38 am UTC

Both arguments are valid. Playing against worse players does make you play worse. I know from experience, my skill level at any game increases dramatically after after a period of time playing significantly more skilled opponents. But conversely, in any high-level game you play, what wins and loses games will be mistakes, both yours and your opponents'. If you only focus on your mistakes winning/losing games, you're missing half the dynamic of the gameplay.

I know I didn't/don't play LoL at anything approaching a high level, so I'm used to all players on both teams making constant mistakes. The key is capitalising on them - in games at the level I play, if your team can pull itself into shape and start playing with few mistakes, the opponent will almost always still be making enough that it's possible to pull it back, even if you're down by 20 kills and 5 turrets.

EDIT: From my perspective, I would argue that it's your responsibility to continue playing if your team wants to play. You committed to play a team game, if anyone (or, at least, more than one person) on the team thinks there's something valuable to be gained from playing, then you should support them in that.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby rigwarl » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:43 am UTC

Basically I'm just trying to say that if you can't beat "noobs", you won't be able to beat good players. Even if you have to dumb down your own game to beat noobs.

I used to be a poker pro and this was basically what all the low stakes grinders said- "man, how can John call a 30$ river bet with only a pair of 7's, no one good would ever do that, I could win if I had the bankroll to play high stakes and my opponents weren't so random" and they'd lose money to John. But, false. A good player knows how to beat both John as well as other straightforward players.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:04 am UTC

rigwarl wrote:Basically I'm just trying to say that if you can't beat "noobs", you won't be able to beat good players. Even if you have to dumb down your own game to beat noobs.

I used to be a poker pro and this was basically what all the low stakes grinders said- "man, how can John call a 30$ river bet with only a pair of 7's, no one good would ever do that, I could win if I had the bankroll to play high stakes and my opponents weren't so random" and they'd lose money to John. But, false. A good player knows how to beat both John as well as other straightforward players.


I guess I'd have to concede that. If only because I know how bad it can hamper your game against someone if you just brush off what someone is doing as "random"
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:31 pm UTC

Marbas wrote:I don't just want to play against better people. I mainly want to get better. And I want to play against better people consistently. Getting better will let me play against better people faster and more consistently than drawing out games that by all means should be unwinnable. Since, if I win those games, my bad habits will have been rewarded.


If you want to play against better people consistently, you don't surrender winnable games. If you think you are only getting better by playing against better people, your whole goal should be to play against better people more often, and the only way to do that is to win more games against the people you face now. Being adaptable is everything in this game, and sometimes that means using strategies that wouldn't work in a game against higher skilled players in order to win against lower skilled ones.

Marbas wrote:
Playing against bad people doesn't build bad habits,


I'm sorry, but this is incredibly wrong. I have 6+ years of experience in the competitive fighting game community. And one of the notable constants is that weak regions tend to get weaker and strong ones get stronger. This is because weak regions have a pool of weaker players, and this creates a sort of feedback effect where people can win games in those areas using tactics that are only viable because of the poor quality of the players. So their bad habits get rewarded/go unpunished, which are the same thing with a bad habit, and so they can't win outside their little area.


Quote taken out of context pretty hard, and when you put it back into context, you spent most of the paragraph agreeing with me. It's not about playing against bad people making you worse, it's about the fact that you don't get a chance to grow by facing stronger opponents. The weak regions get weaker by comparison because people of a higher skill level are getting better. To avoid this you don't surrender to people who fight poorly, or try to imitate good strategies while playing against lower skilled opponents, you just do everything you can to get some time against the people in the stronger regions.

Marbas wrote:
So losing and surrendering against people who are significantly worse than you is better than sticking it out and tightening up your game?


You're not actually tightening up your game. You only think you are.


This doesn't make sense to me. You think your game can't get any tighter, and yet you're losing to people who are "substantially worse" than you. Since your game is already tight, you only could have gotten this huge disadvantage by playing against people who are substantially better than you or by messing up hugely yourself (which I would consider not playing a tight game), but you're calling them substantially worse. It doesn't add up.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Vapour » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:10 pm UTC

Marbas wrote:
For reasons others have pointed out as well as my own, I completely disagree with that statement. Not only do teams learn how to play better, but chars are effective at different stages of the game. Snowballers keep getting better, assassins usually dull over time.. etc.


Everyone seems to have ignored the "When you should" part of that statement. There's a difference between playing at a disadvantage and "OH GOD WHYYYY?" For example, I'm sick of being in games where it's 4-16 and we have three outer towers of our own down, and none of their towers down, and two morons are like "HEY GUYS WE CAN WIN THIS"

And I'm sorry if you think that's winnable, but really, it's not. Unless the other team is composed entirely of mental cripples, you should not be able to come back from that kind of a disadvantage.


3 Towers is nothing.

Turned a game around when our nexus was on 100hp. Ace'd them, ploughed down mid past 2 turrets and the 2 nexus turrets to hit their nexus in one shot.

All because they made a mistake that cost them the game.

The fed Twitch (Their main damage) tried to solo a Mord with Thornmail.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby eeris » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:30 pm UTC

I prefer come backs that don't rely on your enemies overconfidence / incompetence.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:33 pm UTC

eeris wrote:I prefer come backs that don't rely on your enemies overconfidence / incompetence.


The way LoL is constructed, im not sure that this is possible.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Mavketl » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:35 pm UTC

I guess it's possible if the reason that you're behind is that some players on your team were fucking up badly (playing below their level, essentially) and get their act together. But yeah, punishing the other team's mistakes is a pretty big part of the game.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:12 pm UTC

How often do you feel you truly outplayed/were outplayed by the enemy team? Because for me it is very rarely. For me the game is about minimizing mistakes and taking advantages of the enemy's mistakes. Everybody makes them. It's identifying them and knowing when to act that secures wins.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:15 pm UTC

While I generally feel I'm somewhere between 2-0-0 or 0-2-0 by the fifteen minute mark, there's invariably one or two people in another lane that have some horrible number of deaths. I feel that usually decides the game and my own hard-fought gains or unfortunate losses aren't very relevant to the outcome.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Phrozt » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:32 pm UTC

Marbas wrote:
Just because you've never won something like that (likely because you completely give up) does not make it unwinnable.


I have won games like that. Plenty of times. But it wasn't fun, and the problem was, I should not have won those games. I have fun when both teams are demonstrating solid play. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat isn't fun to me unless the game has gone into fifty minutes and we get one of those awesome aces where your carry has free time to knock over EVERYTHING. Because then it's actually a reasonable win. Instead of "HERPDERP their Vayne is dumb so we caught her out of position eight times and now we caught up."


Ok, now I'm 100% positive you're trolling, as "Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat" is one of the single most exhilarating parts of playing LoL.

And FTR, I've won dozens of games where we've been down 10-20 kills + towers. The only loss I hate is one that comes at the hand of a surrender. That makes the game absolutely worthless.

BlackSails wrote:
eeris wrote:I prefer come backs that don't rely on your enemies overconfidence / incompetence.


The way LoL is constructed, im not sure that this is possible.


Sure it is. As I posted earlier, there are snowball champs that continually get better but may not be great early on, then there are champs that are awesome early on and almost worthless later, then there are champs that can hold strong for quite awhile but hit a wall and never get any better.

You have to adapt to your enemies' strengths while building your offense at the same time.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:59 pm UTC

Though, in broad terms, if your enemy has a large advantage and you have a snowball team, it is probably their incompetence that caused them to lose - they didn't end it like they should have. On the other hand, if you weren't really at a disadvantage, you were just biding your time and building up strength, that's not really the type of comeback we're (or at least I'm) talking about, that's just a late game focused strategy.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby rigwarl » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:How often do you feel you truly outplayed/were outplayed by the enemy team? Because for me it is very rarely. For me the game is about minimizing mistakes and taking advantages of the enemy's mistakes. Everybody makes them. It's identifying them and knowing when to act that secures wins.

I'm not sure I totally understand your question, but I consider making less mistakes to be equivalent to outplaying them. So, pretty much any time we win, we outplayed the other team and vice versa.

If what you're asking is how often I attribute a win/loss to someone making a good play compared to someone making a bad play, I'd say equally often because I attribute "good" to be "better than average" and vice versa.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby eeris » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:16 pm UTC

Depends on who you'd rather give the credit/blame to. Unless someone does something completely mental I'd rather praise the other team for persevering and not giving the opposition any edge in the match

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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:46 pm UTC

rigwarl wrote:I'm not sure I totally understand your question, but I consider making less mistakes to be equivalent to outplaying them. So, pretty much any time we win, we outplayed the other team and vice versa.

If what you're asking is how often I attribute a win/loss to someone making a good play compared to someone making a bad play, I'd say equally often because I attribute "good" to be "better than average" and vice versa.

I suppose you have a point, as they can be quite intertwined. The difference in my mind would be something along the lines of just getting out harassed or dominated in lane. There have been games where 2 people are super aggressive and good at it. They keep you at your tower, and eventually may just dive you and live. In those situations I don't feel I've really made mistakes. I have to stay in lane, or I become underleveled. I may already be losing farm. Maybe I should be swapping lanes or something to make it better, but I've rarely seen lane swapping work out for the best, and maybe given my team it wasn't an option. you could say 'bad team comp' or some such, but eh. With what I was given in the situation I did my best and there were no clear "you shouldn't have done that" moments.

Maybe once teamfights starts it's another case of them not having to actually wait for the right moment to engage (oh how I hate that), but just being able to go into your team and expect the win without trouble. This is a bit harder to justify as well, as that can easily be caused by other mistakes earlier in the game.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:03 pm UTC

If 2 people dive you, get a kill, and walk away, you made a mistake. If you're talking about a 1v2 lane, you need to get support from your extra player. If you're talking about a 2v2 lane, then you getting pushed out of the lane means 1) you're committing a series of mistakes, 2) you are stronger in teamfights/late game and it's expected, or 3) you have a significantly inferior lane comp, and then yeah, that's a mistake.

You can wave off bad team comp as doing the best you can all you want, but like it or not, it's a mistake. It's your team playing poorly before the match even starts. You're dismissing an integral part of the game. Picking a bad team is playing badly just as is buying bad items, attacking at the wrong time, having bad map awareness, etc.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:04 pm UTC

3 Towers is nothing.


3 towers is 450 global gold and a ton of lost map control. It's actually pretty bad. Towers are very very important.

And FTR, I've won dozens of games where we've been down 10-20 kills + towers. The only loss I hate is one that comes at the hand of a surrender. That makes the game absolutely worthless.


Absolutely worthless? I'm not sure what you're saying here. I guess it's different for me, because I almost exclusively play blind pick normal. We play for fun, and the personal satisfaction we get when we think we did a good job. And those things aren't fun to us. Because whenever me and my friends win games like that, none of us are happy or satisfied. We spend about twenty minutes in Skype saying things like "That was stupid, we shouldn't have won that."

How often do you feel you truly outplayed/were outplayed by the enemy team? Because for me it is very rarely


Often enough, actually. Although I tend to blame myself for losses, no matter what happens.

Since your game is already tight,


Well, no. But if you've screwed up badly, surrendering provides negative reinforcement, and should help convince you not to make the same mistakes again. I guess I tend to value that negative reinforcement, I feel that it provides more valuable feedback than a comeback.
Last edited by Marbas on Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:26 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby setzer777 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:17 pm UTC

Going back a bit to the question of when to surrender:

To me the time to surrender is when you're significantly behind, someone on your team has quit or is sitting in fountain, and someone on your team is spamming all chat to constantly complain about how their teammates suck. At that point I just want it to be fucking over.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Marbas » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:23 pm UTC

team is spamming all chat to constantly complain about how their teammates suck. At that point I just want it to be fucking over.


I think the worst is when one of the All-Chat spammers is also one of the people who stubbornly refuse to surrender. It is mind-boggling.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Phrozt » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:12 pm UTC

IMO, the most annoying type of spam ever is ping spamming.

There's NOTHING you can do against it, you can't see the damn map, and it's impossible to detect in a Tribunal report.

I've only had about 2 bad games of it, but it was excruciating.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Jesse » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:44 pm UTC

Gonna give this a try since I'm free next week. VTJRaen on EUWest

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Re: League of Legends

Postby maybeagnostic » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:06 am UTC

I think the surrender mechanic is horrible and needs to be rethought and significantly reworked. I win more than half of my games yet overall something like 2/3 of my play time is spent in losing games because I can't do anything to prevent the enemy team from surrendering way too early. As I am writing this my last three games were wins that lasted 25-28 minutes. My team always had a minor lead in kills (3-5 more kills with a minimum of 20 kills for each team) and only 1-2 more towers down than the enemy team which is not a major advantage. None of the games had any trolls, feeders, leavers or spammers. They were developing as really pleasant evenly-matched games and turned out more disappointing and boring than most losses. I'm tired of having to go through 10 minutes of starting a game and 15 minutes of boring laning only to either have to play on the losing side or be cheated out of enjoying my win.

As far as playing in losing games, Marbas, I think we have very different experiences. You play in big arranged teams and have high expectations about how your team should perform. I almost always do solo queue and feel very lucky if I find two decent teammates. Yesterday I played a game where two trolls decided to jungle together as Teemo and tf. We ended up doing three solo lanes (Maokai, Tristana, and Akali) but we stuck together, gave it our best and actually worked pretty well together as a three-person team. We refused to surrender and just had a fun and pretty long game (over 50 minutes) against a team with no feeders or leavers. About 30 minutes in the trolls felt bad and actually started playing seriously but they were already 0/8 each so it was too late to turn the game. In the end, trolls and all, that loss was a much better game than these 25-minute wins I've been having today.

P.S. Quite unrelated but I find Dominion pretty annoying. It's even more skewed towards rewarding only carries and assassins, the game is too fast paced to coordinate a team without voip so random games have no teamwork, and I can't seem to remember the names of the buildings so I get a quest to capture/defend X and don't know what X is or what completing the quest gives me/my team.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby rigwarl » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:24 am UTC

The quest points will have a gold ring circling the tower, and a (gold?) shield on the minimap. It damages the enemy nexus and gives you a minor buff (10% damage IIRC), they're not too important IMO.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:39 am UTC

Jesse wrote:VTJRaen on EUWest

Weren't found, apparently.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:54 am UTC

Jesse - is that your login name or your summoner name? I think we need your summoner name to friend you.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Vapour » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:23 am UTC

Picking Morgana to face the inevitable Xeraths is fun.
The entire game, he managed to get like 2 stuns on me.

The only thing I'm jealous about is his farming. It got to the point when he could clear minion waves faster then I did :(

Not bad a game though, finished at like 4/1/19. Only death attributed to tower diving the shit out of them with my ulti active.


Regarding surrenders. I only ever really play as a 3-5 and two of us never like to surrender. Unless the situation is extremely dire. Like a Vlad running around 3 shotting people.


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