League of Legends

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Kag
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:45 am UTC

Rylai's is definitely skippable on Kat for most teams. DFG is less attractive since the nerf. In most matchups your best bet is just rushing deathcap.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:17 am UTC

I'm talking in the stages after a dethcap. Around mid-game when you're ganking other lanes, a Rylai's really helps for those situations where they've almost gotten away. Suddenly you don't have to worry so much about taking that extra tower hit or them getting away after taking that extra tower hit.

I'd wouldn't say it's mandatory, but it's a nice bonus. I'd put it in the same category as Abyssal, Void Staff and even Lich Bane to an extent which are all really nice on her.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:15 pm UTC

She's doesn't really excel at capitalizing on the slow. Katarina almost always casts all of her spells at roughly the same time (so Lich Bane is bad!). After blowing your load, you're chasing for like 4 seconds, at least, to get that next spell off. You would be in a much better position if you could just kill them in the first place. She's also not so hot at applying the slow. Since almost all of her spells are AoE, you only get the 15% slow, and since they have fairly long cooldowns, the uptime is poor. To that end, the biggest benefit of Rylai's is keeping people from walking away from her ult. Great, but only if nobody else on your team is applying good cc. If your assassination targets are getting away a lot, gunblade is better.

Katarina also doesn't really need to slow people to keep up with them. Her longest range spell is a teleport, she has 325 base move speed, which is unmatched against competent mid champions, and she has an incredible move speed steroid on a short cooldown.

As for survivability, Zhonya's and Abyssal are better at that in general, and are also better offensively for Katarina. Keep in mind that towers do physical damage.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:28 pm UTC

/agree
/agree
/agree

The slow isn't that huge, and if someone really would've just barely made it away without the slow, the extra ap/pen from another item would've probably killed them anyway. That, and the fact that after your second big item, you probably don't really have much time left to screw around with laning and ganking, if any. YMMV, it's certainly not a bad item at all, it's just I think there's better. The "better" items also will rely on your teammates a little more, so at lower levels, rylai's is probably a better choice.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:07 pm UTC

Her e is single target and applies the full slow. I like the hp from it, but the slow from the active on gunblade is better.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:44 am UTC

I've really been enjoying Kat. Today I picked up Ahri, Anivia, and Eve, plus some sweet skins... I haven't played any of my new ones yet (well I played Anivia during a free week a long time ago). I think I pretty much own every major champion for the Mid position now, I need to pick up a couple more supports (Leona and Zyra) and I will have pretty much all the big champs in both mid and support. Plus today I picked up the only AD carry I am much good with, Caitlyn... I think she's underplayed, I always have fantastic success with her when I play her.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby NieXS » Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:31 pm UTC

Gunblade isn't terribly good on her either since her remake since her only AD ratios are on her ultimate and W, and they aren't really good.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:12 am UTC

I really, really love Ahri, I've had a couple pretty dominant games with her (and they were the first two pvp games I played, with only one bot game to get a handle on her abilities). I have to say, she's super powerful and I dominated even though I was up against Diana who is supposed to shit all over Ahri in mid lane... granted a fantastic jungler helped a lot... but she has everything I look for in an AP carry, strong damage and high mobility, her abilities are reasonably costed, her ult is pretty good and has a fairly low cooldown, overall she's very strong and I plan on playing her a lot.

Also I purchased Caitlyn (and her awesome Resistance skin) and have done pretty well in the couple games I've played with her.

I really felt like I was stagnating for a little while and it was discouraging but I'm in a pretty good place right now... all I need to do is pick up Leona and I'll have the last support I want.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby SuperTD » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:30 am UTC

NieXS wrote:Gunblade isn't terribly good on her either since her remake since her only AD ratios are on her ultimate and W, and they aren't really good.

I think her ultimate ratio is actually very good-3:1 on bonus AD. Unforunately, her W has a pathetic ratio, so all it really comes in handy for is the ultimate as she's not based around auto attacks. It's not a useless item though, as it gives her AP, AD and spell vamp, all of which work with her. Plus, the slow is good for keeping enemies in range for another shunpo.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:42 pm UTC

SuperTD wrote:Unforunately, her W has a pathetic ratio


The AD Ratio on it is 60%, which is fairly typical for a spammable AoE. It also has a slight edge because it does magic damage.

Still, Gunblade is a lot more situational than it used to be.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby SuperTD » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:05 am UTC

I suppose it is spammable, but the AoE is fairly small, and it's only bonus AD rather than total. It procs the bouncing blade mark though, which is a plus.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Aaeriele » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:09 am UTC

SuperTD wrote:I suppose it is spammable, but the AoE is fairly small, and it's only bonus AD rather than total. It procs the bouncing blade mark though, which is a plus.


It also has the advantage of making it harder to mitigate all of your damage - heavy MR builds will leave themselves open to autoattacks; heavy armor builds leave themselves open to the ability damage. Sure, it's a small consideration next to ratios, but it's still a nice little fringe benefit.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:45 am UTC

In dominion you just build a ton of MPen and wreck stuff anyway.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:37 am UTC

Weeks wrote:In dominion you just build a ton of MPen and wreck stuff anyway.

FTFY

I'm starting to build my nukes with heavy mpen before building a dethcap and it's paying off quite nicely. Usually Sorcerers Shoes -> Blasting Wand -> Haunting guise -> Dethcap works really nicely on someone like Le Blanc who does pretty high base damage before you add much AP and will ruin people with heavy mres runes on. Obviously this takes a back seat if you notice they went for straight AP runes.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:11 pm UTC

I am in a rut where my team will generally win if I play Jax, Volibear, Mundo, Garen or my team will probably lose if I go APC or support.
Taric - If I go tank build, my heals do JACK and I feel totally ineffective... plus my gear is bad becase I get no CC. If I try to mix in some AP, I can't ank...

My only two intermediate heros seem to be Teemo and Ashe. I love teemo, but he is SOOO squishy. Anyone have a good build for him where I am not a total glass cannon, but my shrooms still hurt?

When it comes to mages... I am just bad. Squishy's and me don't mix, I need a new strat because I see people do great with them. (I am ok with Karthus)

Also, question: Is spell vamp any good on teemo? Is AD Teemo viable? I seem to end every game with a 1:1 K:D.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

My best advice without knowing much about you or your playstyle would be to watch what others do and see what works or doesn't. I don't know what level you're at but pretty much all tarics I see just build support, not as a tank or strong ap. that means getting lots of gp5, maybe some aura items, and warding a ton. If you play lots of tanky characters keep in mind when playing ap or ad that you generally don't want to be the one initiating, it's more on your tank(s). As ap your job is generally to either burst one guy down super fast or put out a bunch of ae dmg and control. If you have any more specific questions shoot them out but it's hard to give advice without knowing your situation better.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:58 pm UTC

Why did no one report the clusterfuck that is this thread?

Fucking hell.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:08 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Why did no one report the clusterfuck that is this thread?

Fucking hell.

In all honesty I sort of blacked out thought it was bleed-over from the first ruling or I would have reported it (I'm presuming) again.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:28 pm UTC

Yea, full page of good posts, I thought the 'bad' stuff was pages ago. I just skip over that stuff anyway.


Taric - Yes I play him support with money making stuff, I spend several 1000's on wards. Do money making items stack? Do the same types of items stack? (2 philospher stones -- my first item on Taric --- I buy faerie + 3 wards +1 mana +1 health pot to start).

Is AD + attack speed Teemo viable?

BTW I am level 30 now with 3 Rune pages. (one defense, one AP, one AP/AD hybrid)
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:49 pm UTC

Are you playing ranked or normals?

I haven't ever seen a viably played AD teemo, aside from like years ago when you could viably play anyone anyway because people didn't know what was going on. Doesn't mean it won't work, but... it probably won't. He has a weak built in escape with his W, his range is weak, and his abilities mostly rely on AP to be useful with no steroid type ability. The blind is nice, sure, but it doesn't make up for him lacking all over the place outside of that. This does not mean that you can't play teemo AD and be successful, and it doesn't mean that someone won't come up with some crazy way to play him that really makes him work, but right now I think it's pretty much a no-go.

GP5 different items stack, same ones don't. E.g. you can have a kage's pick and a philo stone stack, but two philos won't.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:00 pm UTC

Intrigued wrote:Are you playing ranked or normals?

.


Thanks for the info.

I play normal, apparently you have to own 18 heros to play ranked.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:15 pm UTC

Yeah. They do want you to have enough heroes that if you're picking last after all the other picks/bans that you'll still have someone to choose. 18 seems a bit arbitrary, but obviously it bare minimum needs to be 16. Playing normals gives you pick of the litter, have you tried ali or blitz when you're forced into supporting? You may have more luck there, if you have access to them.

With Taric, it sounds like you're doing it right on the large scale. I can't tell you how your micro is or how you're handling the lane. I will say that when you play a support, you're a multiplier. The better you are, the more you amplify your team, but if your team is junk, you're going to lose and there's nothing you can do to sway it.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:18 pm UTC

But a good support can lift a mediocre ad carry over a good ad carry. Even a player who is not so good can auto attack win with enough of an advantage.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:26 pm UTC

Good ad carry + mediocre support > mediocre ad carry + good support imo. Of course if you're talking mediocre ad carry + good support vs good ad carry + bad support, you're probably right, but it's not really a fair comparison. The gap also widens into late game, where a good carry + bad support will even out or possibly manage to beat a mediocre ad carry + good support. To toot my own horn and supposed I'm a "good" adc, I'll also say that I feel like I have a decent chance with a bad support as I can capitalize on the enemy's mistakes that a bad support will draw out. A bad support may get himself killed, but a good adc will often pull a kill out of the situation and get away, which will generally be a net win (since you'll probably be killing the ADC, vs them just killing your support).

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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:43 pm UTC

How often do you guys do draft? I have only done blind so far. I guess draft takes more thought and planning.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:54 pm UTC

I almost exclusively play either dominion on normal - because the draft queue is practically the length of a game - or summoner's rift on ranked/draft - because when I'm playing SR I'm looking for a serious game. I wouldn't say draft necessarily takes more thought and planning, I think more than anything it just removes a handful of blatantly OP champs from play, and prevents cross-team duplicates. What that boils down to is that you need to have a larger repertoire of champs you can play well, and that you can't expect to get the specific one you want.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:23 pm UTC

I dont like draft just because it takes extra time to set up the game.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:44 pm UTC

I'll do draft when I'm confident enough on my skills.

Basically I consider draft "serious mode". Except when it's a Dominate Dominion inhouse match, which is just a bunch of old Dominion players having fun.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:30 pm UTC

Thanks for responses, you guys actually made me feel better, because I am a good support player. I ward like mad, don't take any last hits, sacrifice myself for my carries, dont feed, and put my carry in good positions to get kills.

I will try out some other carries.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:38 pm UTC

So who should be buying wards? Seems like mid needs to, and it's a good idea if they have a jungler.

Also, figured out one of my issues. Apparently if you attack a champ near a turret, it will start hitting you, even if there are a ton of creeps around. This has gotten me killed many times.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

emceng wrote: Apparently if you attack a champ near a turret, it will start hitting you
Yep. This is known as drawing turret aggro. Watch out for the icon on top of your champ and the little chime it makes.

emceng wrote:So who should be buying wards? Seems like mid needs to, and it's a good idea if they have a jungler.
As mid I always buy wards, preferably two each time I go back to base. That way I have both brushes covered. The jungler should ward too, mostly with Wriggle's Lantern and regular wards if possible.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:41 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
emceng wrote: Apparently if you attack a champ near a turret, it will start hitting you
Yep. This is known as drawing turret aggro. Watch out for the icon on top of your champ and the little chime it makes.

.

Yeah, I knew about the chime and such, just thought the turret was supposed to target the creeps if they were there. Didn't know/realize that it immediately started pounding me when I attack a champ hiding at the turret.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:59 pm UTC

Something I didn't really notice until somewhat recently: you draw minion aggro as well if you target a Champion around their creep wave. This is why you can die pretty quickly if you engage in the middle of a creep wave.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:59 pm UTC

Turret AI is as follows (basic behavior, then overriding conditionals - the last item will be highest priority):
-Lock onto a creep in range, attack that creep until it dies or moves out of range
...unless a player-controlled non-champion unit (e.g. Heimer turrets, Tibbers, Shaco clone) is in range and the tower is not currently locked onto anything, in which case
-Lock onto player-controlled non-champion unit, attack until it dies or moves out of range
...unless an enemy champion within tower attack range deals damage to a friendly champion who is also inside tower attack range and the tower is not currently locked onto an enemy champion, in which case
-Drop current lock, lock onto enemy champion, attack until it dies or moves out of range

Note that it's not an attack that triggers the lock-on, it's damage - when playing Teemo/Cassiopeia/Darius/anyone else with a long-lasting damage-over-time effect, be careful about going near their tower while it's ticking, as the periodic damage will aggro the tower. There may be another step in between, where the tower will aggro specifically onto things that aren't enemy champions and are attacking friendly champions, but I'm not sure so I didn't put it in.

Minion aggro works a bit differently: they don't seem to do a full lock-on, but the main thing to note is that they'll aggro on any nearby enemy champion who attacks a nearby friendly champion. Unlike towers, this doesn't trigger on spell damage or periodic damage - you can safely poke with spells, but autoattacking will get the minions angry at you.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:15 pm UTC

Angry Minions
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Lostdreams » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:31 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Note that it's not an attack that triggers the lock-on, it's damage - when playing Teemo/Cassiopeia/Darius/anyone else with a long-lasting damage-over-time effect, be careful about going near their tower while it's ticking, as the periodic damage will aggro the tower.


I'm not sure if it's changed but this applied to Teemo shrooms as well. Sitting under tower chipping away when someone in jungle triggers a shroom and walks under the tower he's under and it switches targets. Mostly this applies to shrooming tri-bush and the jungle paths near it.

edit: I had my patches crossed. A while ago to have the tower target an enemy for causing damage to a friendly champ the friendly champ didn't actually need to be under the tower. The result is any time a Teemo, Caitlyn, or Nidalee trap was triggered, if they were under tower, the tower targeted them.
Last edited by Lostdreams on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:36 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Turret AI is as follows (basic behavior, then overriding conditionals - the last item will be highest priority):
-Lock onto a creep in range, attack that creep until it dies or moves out of range
...unless a player-controlled non-champion unit (e.g. Heimer turrets, Tibbers, Shaco clone) is in range and the tower is not currently locked onto anything, in which case
-Lock onto player-controlled non-champion unit, attack until it dies or moves out of range
...unless an enemy champion within tower attack range deals damage to a friendly champion who is also inside tower attack range and the tower is not currently locked onto an enemy champion, in which case
-Drop current lock, lock onto enemy champion, attack until it dies or moves out of range

Note that it's not an attack that triggers the lock-on, it's damage - when playing Teemo/Cassiopeia/Darius/anyone else with a long-lasting damage-over-time effect, be careful about going near their tower while it's ticking, as the periodic damage will aggro the tower. There may be another step in between, where the tower will aggro specifically onto things that aren't enemy champions and are attacking friendly champions, but I'm not sure so I didn't put it in.

Minion aggro works a bit differently: they don't seem to do a full lock-on, but the main thing to note is that they'll aggro on any nearby enemy champion who attacks a nearby friendly champion. Unlike towers, this doesn't trigger on spell damage or periodic damage - you can safely poke with spells, but autoattacking will get the minions angry at you.



Holy crap, that's lots of info. Thanks! I had also wondered why creeps sometimes seemed to randomly ignore me or not. Thanks for all of that information, it should help me a ton!
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:44 pm UTC

Wait, I don't see the case for "champ walks into turret range with no other target". I believe that has the same priority as enemy pets (non-champion units). I didn't know towers targeted Heimer turrets though.
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Lostdreams
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Lostdreams » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:46 pm UTC

Also if there are no minions and multiple champs under the turret it will pick the closest champion.
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BlackSails
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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:48 pm UTC

A wierd bug that I recently discovered with tower aggro - DoT effects on "dead" players, such as karthus using his passive still draws tower aggro


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