League of Legends

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Weeks
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:13 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:I realize ARAM isn't a good harbinger for game balance in general, but man, Fiora with a Hydra is *vicious*. (Also, Liandry's + Rylai's seems hilarious on Brand and to a lesser extent Malzahar.)
BFT + Rylai's Brand is pretty good in dominion
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:06 pm UTC

SuperTD wrote:What's wrong with Hydra on Jax?


It does nothing for about half of his damage. It's good if you really, really need AoE damage, but hopefully you solve that at champ select.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:23 pm UTC

hydra is awesome on champs like yi, since it doesnt just give aoe damage, it gives aoe LIFESTEAL

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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:59 pm UTC

Intrigued wrote:Do we have 10 people? Seems like it's a rotating 6 or 7 posting at any one time.

Not to mention it's split over US/EUW at the very least.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:50 pm UTC

Played a very interesting game.

Opposing team picked all AD carries and support.
Game starts,they invade, and get 2 kills.
People go to their lanes and I notice there are 2 mid. (I was mid teemo) they push lane, and a 3rd guy comes.... then a 4th. I'm telling my team "need help mid NOW".
I die defending tower to 4 level 2-3 heros. I respawn and head mid... and there are now 5 mid pushing the 2nd tower. I am spam pinging mid, and our rammus shows up to help... we are only level 3.
Me and Rammus die defending AND they get the tower. They all go away.
I get 1 more level and suddenly all 5 show up mid... rammus comes to my aid, we both die and they get 3rd tower and our RAX.
Rest of the team finally wakes up and comes to defend, but with me and rammus dead its 5v3 so they kill 2 more heroes AND get a castle tower.

At this point my team is freaking out and everyone comes to defend.

The other team never stops pushing mid with 5, its a very scary match with lots of death, and it always seems like they are about to get our final tower and take us out.

Once we hit level 6 things start to change and we get a bunch of kills.

Long story short at level 5 they had 4 towers and the rax MID. With a kill advantage of 9-1. My team is on the verge of rage quitting.... but we come back and win the game to some great teamwork, a back dooring Shaco, Fields of poison mushrooms, and a world class Rammus.

If your bored sometime try the 5 man push mid, is was insane how fast they got to our rax when my team didn't instantly react.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:54 pm UTC

Let alone more than 10 for a tourney. I imagine trying to get 10 people together for one game might be a struggle, but you could try it.

I haven't logged much time since the big changes, I need to dive back in head first at some point.

Yeah, that push is super gimmicky and will only work against really bad teams. Honestly, a teemo and a rammus might be able to hold off 5 from a tower at level 2-3, and even if they couldn't, 3 should be able to, and 4 definitely will be able to. That's 1-2 people free farming other lanes. Even if your team doesn't respond to the threat in mid, with 2 bot and 1 top free farming and hard pushing, they should be getting towers down almost as fast and threatening two lanes with inhibitor loss.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby SuperTD » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:19 am UTC

Any competent team should respond to something like that instantly, and either help or hard push their own lane. It's not really a viable strategy in higher level play.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:13 am UTC

Yeah, I've done the "hard push mid" strat on 4 occasions, with a 50/50 win loss rate. I actually had it happen to me for the first time last night. I was with a 4 man premade, so we noticed and called it out instantly. 3 of us defended for about 5 minutes and when the first tower went down, 4 of us started defending while our other player (jarvan) just pushed. Once he hit 6 and they were all still level 3, he showed up and started wrecking (as expected). It's an easy counter, but Jarvan was sure to let the other team know he was wrecking their face, as if he was God's gift to LoL.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:57 pm UTC

SuperTD wrote:Any competent team should .


Yea thats the problem. I find that generally people are already mad at each other during hero selection as its very common for people to spam pick, lock in, and call "top" or "mid".

I find that any time I get a competent team we win. Its the fact you're going to be on a lot of incompetent teams that makes LoL a challenge, or you're going up against an incompetent team in which you just faceroll them.

LoL isn't about what should happen - its about what happens when 5 people of different skill levels with a propensity to nerd rage play a team game togeather in which success depends on their teamwork.

Hence, the 5 man mid strategy was a fun experience for me as a team of people who initially hated each other, learned to work togeather. It was basically a disney movie aka Remember the Titans.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:11 pm UTC

Yea, what Ixy said. I main support and I find that as long as my team isnt raging or feeding or afking, I can usually win about 75% of my games(these games being equally skilled teams slugging it out, the best kind), but the problem is I feel like more than 50% of my total games contain afker/dc's, ragers, or feeders(You know that guy who wont turret hug when hes down 3 deaths and is getting caught out all the time).
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:58 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:It's an easy counter, but Jarvan was sure to let the other team know he was wrecking their face, as if he was God's gift to LoL.

If you ask me, that's the perfect response to a team that's chosen a gimmicky strat. You almost know for a fact any team that wins a game with something like a 5 man mid lane rush will be asshats about it during/post game, so when you pick it apart with such an easy counter I feel that there's plenty of room for "Your strat is bad and you should feel bad."

In the same way that if there's a guy who's calling out your plays and you murder the everliving fuck out of him due to some nice juking and a little cleverness, there's room for a pithy remark or two. What I wouldn't endorse is counterflaming, but there's a big difference between that and a little elbow-nudging.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:23 pm UTC

Yeah, need better teammates. Was solo top last night - against freaking Blitz and Teemo. And one of their guys dropped at level 1. So it's 5 on 4, with one of our guys jungling, and I am still solo against those two champs? Started out 1-4 I think. We won because they were short a man, but still, pissed me off.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Christophoros » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:26 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:I find that any time I get a competent team we win. Its the fact you're going to be on a lot of incompetent teams that makes LoL a challenge, or you're going up against an incompetent team in which you just faceroll them.

It's only the games in which both teams have a competent team that you can really count. Put it this way - if you assume that 75% of your games you are on an incompetent team (probably not that high, but mein gott it seems it sometimes.), then by the same logic, even when you are on a competent team, 75% of your games will be AGAINST incompetents.

So you'll get incompetent vs incompetent games 9/16 times, facerolls 6/16 times, and GOOD games 1/16 times.

Those numbers are horribly depressing.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:07 pm UTC

Based on complete anecdotal evidence: I would say that in a typical game 2-3 people are incompetent at level 30. Frequently this might just be due to playing a hero that is new to them. Those 2-3 people might all by on your team (3 days ago my bottom went 0-9 by the 8 min mark). Or maybe its divided equally... you just never know.

But yes, most games are 1 sided. That part is depressing, but I think to be expected with 108 heros in the game, odds are somebody is going to be BAD at their hero.

But is anyone shocked when they get a teamate with ZERO map awareness, even at level 30? Being a long time Dota player, I have very good map awareness.


Question: I have never used smart casting.... do you guys like it? It occured to me it would make it a lot easier to hit combos... I died yesterday because I couldn't get my "R" off on the target during some spam stunning.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:48 pm UTC

Yea, I swapped to smart casting when I hit 30 and it improved my reacting to something time to actual spell being casted time drastically.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:09 pm UTC

OMGWTFBBQSAUCEYESSWITCHTOSMARTCASTING.

It can take a little getting used to, and you may blow a couple ults that totally screw you, but in the long run it's SO worth it. I started it when cassie came out, because smartcasting is a whole different animal on her. I resisted going to smartcasting for my ult for a little, but not long. It really makes a huge difference on all champions.

It doesn't really surprise me to have level 30's with 0 map awareness. Playing a game for a long time != increasing your skills at that game, especially when they're very macro type skills. You can be doing things poorly without ever realizing it unless you make a conscious effort to get better. When you get to higher levels of play, you'll see less and less people who are outright bad, though you'll still have people raging. Those few perfect games where it's just an honestly good battle between two teams of similar competence make the whole game worth it, though, imo, win or lose.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:06 pm UTC

I hear some people use regular casting on certain champs. I wouldn't though, it feels too clunky for me. I also got used to unlocked camera for better vision.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Lostdreams » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:24 pm UTC

Christophoros wrote:
Ixtellor wrote:I find that any time I get a competent team we win. Its the fact you're going to be on a lot of incompetent teams that makes LoL a challenge, or you're going up against an incompetent team in which you just faceroll them.

It's only the games in which both teams have a competent team that you can really count. Put it this way - if you assume that 75% of your games you are on an incompetent team (probably not that high, but mein gott it seems it sometimes.), then by the same logic, even when you are on a competent team, 75% of your games will be AGAINST incompetents.

So you'll get incompetent vs incompetent games 9/16 times, facerolls 6/16 times, and GOOD games 1/16 times.

Those numbers are horribly depressing.


I read that whole section as incontinents. Considering how shitty some of the playerbase is, it totally fit.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:10 pm UTC

Locked camera is that thing that's annoying every once in a while when you accidentally hit the button for it and don't realize it. I do however make liberal use of space bar to lock the camera when I'm crossing distances.

Those numbers are kind of depressing, but they're also completely made up, and don't take into account differences in competence at elo (ranked or hidden in normals).

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:08 am UTC

On smartcasting, there's some champions where you want to turn it off on certain abilities. For example, Ez or Ashe's ultis are better non-smartcast, in general, because then you can line the shot up better with the visual indicator. It's really useful for most abilities - you should definitely be smartcasting the majority of the time, although it does make it a little trickier to play champions you don't know well until you learn the size and shape of their powers' effects. Especially for AP carries who rely so heavily on single combo burst damage, it makes it so much easier to get a fast full combo off. I switched when I was about level 15 and never regretted it at all.

I've actually seen some of the top players (especially AD carries) use A+left-click instead of right-clicking for basic attacks/moves some of the time - kind of the opposite of smartcasting - it gives you a slight edge if someone jumps you unexpectedly by coming out of a bush or something, and maybe some other advantages too, I'm not sure.

I've never managed to get used to unlocked camera. I guess I should try again. I can see the advantages, I just always end up with the camera in the wrong place at some crucial point in a fight when I unlock it - I suppose using the spacebar more for temporary locking would help with that.
emceng wrote:Yeah, need better teammates. Was solo top last night - against freaking Blitz and Teemo. And one of their guys dropped at level 1. So it's 5 on 4, with one of our guys jungling, and I am still solo against those two champs? Started out 1-4 I think. We won because they were short a man, but still, pissed me off.

Who were you playing? Assuming the enemy team doesn't have a jungler (so one of your teammates isn't just getting a completely free lane), that could be pretty good for your team, if you have a champ with good sustain. It's basically all on your jungler. If you can stay safe near your tower, you should be able to gank them with your jungler coming up from river when they get low - Blitz/Teemo will have pretty poor sustain; alternatively, the jungler has basically free ganks against both bot and mid lanes, since the enemy won't have a jungler to countergank. 1v2 against a good Blitz is brutal, though. Get your positioning even slightly wrong and you're hooked and killed instantly.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:12 am UTC

Adacore wrote:On smartcasting, there's some champions where you want to turn it off on certain abilities. For example, Ez or Ashe's ultis are better non-smartcast, in general, because then you can line the shot up better with the visual indicator.
But you can just leave the key pressed to aim...
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:05 am UTC

Weeks wrote:
Adacore wrote:On smartcasting, there's some champions where you want to turn it off on certain abilities. For example, Ez or Ashe's ultis are better non-smartcast, in general, because then you can line the shot up better with the visual indicator.
But you can just leave the key pressed to aim...

Yeah, you can also rebind the keys so non-smartcasting occurs on a shift-R, with smartcast on R, for example. But it's not terribly difficult to rebind the keys at the start of a game if you find it valuable to have an ability non-smartcast with whatever champion you're playing. I mostly just use shift-button to do non-smartcast casting - I use it most often when I'm camping in a brush with a champion that has a skillshot initiate - on Morgana, for example, I hit shift+Q in order to give me the spell graphic so I can line up the shot more accurately if/when someone appears.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:09 am UTC

Weeks wrote:
Adacore wrote:On smartcasting, there's some champions where you want to turn it off on certain abilities. For example, Ez or Ashe's ultis are better non-smartcast, in general, because then you can line the shot up better with the visual indicator.
But you can just leave the key pressed to aim...

I did not know that. I might finally make the switch.

But I am no man to talk about interface issues. I play with smartcast off and the camera locked, and have done for nearly three years.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby faranim » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:15 pm UTC

with smartcasting, there are essentially 2 modes.

Instant smartcast will cast the spell as soon as you press the hotkey. If you are not in range of the targeted location (for skills that require a target), your champion will move to the required spot and then use the skill. In this mode, you never get any sort of range indicator, the spell just goes off the instant you press your keyboard. Some skills work this way by default (Flash, and Karthus' Q for example)

Somewhere in the Config GUI is a smartcast range indicator option. In this mode, when you press the hotkey, it shows the range and targeting cone/circle of the ability (exactly like when you click it with your mouse). The ability actually goes off when you release the hotkey - or you can cancel the skill by right clicking. This is incredibly useful for skills like Anivia's ice wall (and Ashe's Ultimate, etc), so you can see the visual placement indicator before actually using the skill.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:37 pm UTC

Yeah, I like my visual indicator too much to go full smartcast. I'm just trained myself to smartcast nearly everything with shift+.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:14 pm UTC

I rebind keys in matches usually. Like when I play shyvana, I rebind her ult to not smartcast, same for hecarim, viktor's e and a few others.

Edit: I also have items and summoners on smartcast.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:55 pm UTC

Dangit, I wanted to get things done this week, but there are like 5 free champs I want to try out.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:57 am UTC

I played a 5 1/2 minute game of Dominion yesterday where all 10 people were present: Proving that sending two people bot doesn't work if you have the Le Blanc to juke with. They both chased me as I ran towards the opposite bottom cap, I jumped and they kept chasing me, recalled to the jump spot and ran back to point. Chain, Q and turret hits killed them both off just as I died.
In the mean time, my team stomps all over the three at top, then sends our Shaco to cap their bot just before they come back. By three minutes we have all 5 caps and they're continuing to try to cap the closest points rather than breaking into the jungle in an effort to get to a point we're not turtled up on with superior gear.

So I guess I want to hear people's dominion strategies, horror stories, etc.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:39 pm UTC

My biggest issue with Dominion? Apparently no ones know about the objective things. We'll be told to cap/defend bottom, and 4 guys will be wandering in the jungle, or top, or wherever - just ignoring the fact you get a huge boost for capping the assigned point.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:54 pm UTC

emceng wrote:My biggest issue with Dominion? Apparently no ones know about the objective things. We'll be told to cap/defend bottom, and 4 guys will be wandering in the jungle, or top, or wherever - just ignoring the fact you get a huge boost for capping the assigned point.

The flip side of that is people that cap the buff then refuse to capitalise on it. The mechanics are there to get you to take a risk either in capturing that fourth point or mounting up your guys to take back that currently usurped point in an effort to bring you back in the game. I can see you not going for it, for instance, if you have the three main points for your side. What I don't understand, though, is people who refuse to help (or refuse help!) in defending an objective point. If someone sneaks that point away from your team, the 4vs4 up top becomes almost impossible to defend against if the tables were balanced.

I think that's the problem in general with dominion. People still carry over the mindset that overall deathcount weaken the enemy team. Unless you capitalise on the fact that for however many seconds they're a few players down, then it was pointless. If you kill 4 people, but the last person manages to drive you all off without killing you, that's zero-sum in Dominion. Equally, if you stop chasing someone and let them cap, or all chase someone and leave no one capping, you're zero-sum. This is why I like playing squishies like Sona, Zilean, LeBlanc in Dominion. It really messes with that mindset.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby faranim » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:42 pm UTC

I play Maokai almost exclusively in Dominion, so I mostly play in the bot lane. Map awareness is key, you need to know when to push and when to fall back. If there is a big fight going on at the Windmill, then it's good to push the bot since nobody will be able to gank you or help defend in time. If there are lots of enemy champs not on your map, you need to assume they are trying to gank you and get back.

It's also important to watch your bot lane for some easy gank opportunities. Very often against pushing champs like Nunu, Mordekaiser, Singed, etc. they will push the lane and sit underneath your bot tower. These are super easy ganks, or alternatively you can backdoor their bottom tower since their bot laner won't be around to defend it.

Bot lane in Dominion feels a lot like playing Support in Classic. When your other teammates are good and help you out, you do well. But when the rest of your team sucks, there is nothing you can do to help them.


I tried Nami in a Classic game last night. We won, but I felt like I played horribly. I didn't realize her ultimate had such a low cooldown (about 60 seconds with CDR gear), I would have used it a lot more often. Her bubble thing sure is fun - it feels similar to playing blitzcrank.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:54 pm UTC

I feel like bot feels more like a carry. You rely on your team to be reasonably good, but if you do well, you can put on enough pressure to constantly pull resources from top, if you don't position properly, you're going to die a lot if the enemy team is competent, making it a lot harder for your team.

I agree completely with your map awareness pushing vs safety analysis though. Pushing can be really important in bot, but if you get yourself killed repeatedly you're really hurting your team. If your team has top, and there's any missing, you're generally best off playing safe and making sure you hold your lane.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby emceng » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:02 pm UTC

Dominion feels like if you had a decent team that queued together, you could just steamroll the competition. Does anyone buy wards? I've never seen them used. Also, when do the new free champs become available? I thought it was Monday evenings, but at 10 cst last night it wasn't updated.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:06 pm UTC

Wards aren't available in dominion, one of the reasons teemo/nid have a leg up.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:40 pm UTC

I actually wrote about dominion a few pages ago.
4 top 1 bottom is really the only good strat to begin with.

Best most consistant way to win is get 3 towers and defend them.
The biggest mistake is looking for fights away from the tower when you don't have to engage.... MAKE the enemy tower dive.

Towers are vastly more important than kills.
During the big fight to get the top at the beginning, do not stop trying to cap. I see lots of people get lured away going for the killing blow, when the smartest play is to turn back and get the cap. Espeically at low level when a tower dive is pretty much instant death for most heros.

I love playing teemo, but find that tanks work just as well, because you make the team dive you, and let the tower chew them up as you take a beating.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:53 pm UTC

faranim wrote:Bot lane in Dominion feels a lot like playing Support in Classic. When your other teammates are good and help you out, you do well. But when the rest of your team sucks, there is nothing you can do to help them.

Personally, I don't think the lanes are as hard and fast except for bot lane. In this respect, it's a lot like top. You both put as much pressure on as you can, if you get the opportunity to kill safely, you take it (which is very much as you said), but otherwise it's all about keeping your tower well defended and pulling as many resources as you can.

The rest of the lanes, as far as I see, can mix it up. You can play a team of tanks that are impossible to shove off of points, or a team of squishies to attempt to nuke them down, a team of champs that excell at kiteing to have them constantly guessing where the attacks are going to come from and split them: Ultimately the best teams are the ones that recognise that you don't have to keep beating your head off of a brick wall that has 3 full health champs with a massive amount of resistance/health/damage hiding behind it, I find.

Ixtellor wrote:I actually wrote about dominion a few pages ago.
4 top 1 bottom is really the only good strat to begin with.

Best most consistant way to win is get 3 towers and defend them.
The biggest mistake is looking for fights away from the tower when you don't have to engage.... MAKE the enemy tower dive.

Towers are vastly more important than kills.
During the big fight to get the top at the beginning, do not stop trying to cap. I see lots of people get lured away going for the killing blow, when the smartest play is to turn back and get the cap. Espeically at low level when a tower dive is pretty much instant death for most heros.

I think that's a good breakdown of the most consistent strat, but there's plenty of leeway for certain comps against certain other comps. For instance (as I think I may have mentioned?) if I play Kha'zix, I make sure that I cap mid, then ghost and jump on the enemies mid champ IFF I'm sure I can do a significant amount of damage to them (e.g. Ezereal, or really anyone without a stun) continue to attack until you either kill or bait the enemy to attack you. Generally be a pain in the ass. You will die, but their team will become preoccupied with you, opening up opportunities for your team to cap.
Again, if your team is getting steamrolled, clinging to the "We need our mid, bot and top" strat will loose you the game. I've seen more games lost to that than I have won because of it.

emceng wrote:Dominion feels like if you had a decent team that queued together, you could just steamroll the competition.

Kinda like classic and 3v3 then? ;)

Really the only place that isn't true is ARAMs.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:49 pm UTC

20/3/17 with akali, with 20 stacks on soulstealer and sword of the occult. Final build was alacrity sorc boots, gunblade, soulstealer, sword of the occult, GA, deathcap. I had 3k gold that I was just spending on red/blue/oracle potions.

Eventually their team realized that I had to be #1 target no matter what, so they all bought pink wards. In response kayle just ulted me. 8-)

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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:19 pm UTC

That Vi Login music is going to convince me to get Vi. Not like I don't have the IP to spend but the last champ I bought on release I hated (Kha'zix). Granted, that was one instance, where I enjoyed Shyvana/Jayce when I got them for release. Really hoping Vi is a respectable jungler. She could clearly be a top laner, but I'm terrible at that.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:02 am UTC

Hey Jayce, POWER SLAM
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:19 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:Hey Jayce, POWER SLAM

I got a "Nice shot, cupcake!" the last night, and squeeled SO HARD. Vi is my new favourite champ. Everything about her makes me so happy.
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