League of Legends

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tompliss
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Re: League of Legends

Postby tompliss » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:14 am UTC

Isn't Top Kennen usually AP ?

I think I saw him building abyssal/zhonia more then anything else :/
Because it's clealy easier to build a little bit tanky with AP than AD, and without tankiness, you won't live long, in this lane ... :D

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:45 am UTC

Thank God for the protection period after a promotion. I got promoted to Silver 1 and then proceeded to go on a 5 game losing streak, but it didnt demote me. I finally broke it so now I should be ok to go on another winning streak. Before the losing streak I was on a 9 game winning streak. Im finding that I go on so many streaks now, one way or the other.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Lostdreams » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:34 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:
Adacore wrote:The existance of all-female leagues and constructed all-female teams is symptomatic of a lot that's wrong with sexism in gaming imo.


The latter, I totally agree with. The former, however... is actually potentially part of the path to a solution. An all-female league gives a venue that inherently isn't going to have sexism within the player base (granted, the audience is another matter). Having a competitive environment where female players can grow without having to deal with the proportionally greater burden they would face vs. male gamers in the main leagues (not gameplay-wise, but social-wise) has its benefits, as long as players from that league are free to transfer into the main league (and/or play in both).


In a vacuum that might be a good idea but, realistically, that is a terrible idea. Gimmick teams are inherently disrespected. Even if they had a image of "Real girls playing LoL" and not the "LOL girlz playing" that usually gets pushed, the message they are trying to voice won't start to reach the audience that needs it the most until they can win the respect they need to make people pay attention, which is placing high in a tournament. If, by magic, a five girl team can be put together that has the skill, cohesiveness, coordination, coaching, and all the other things that keep teams from falling apart long enough to win (which even top teams end up doing anyway) then we might be able to see more recognition faster. Essentially, you would need the perfect storm.

What will probably need to happen is the same shitty slow infiltration that is seen everywhere else. If few skilled female players can make it into some top team and perform well during tournaments, it would be a tremendous force of change. It would no doubt be hard on the trailblazers but the impact of having someone like Doublelift or Saint say that a female member is important and take up the same pro-women-gamer banner would be huge move forward, piggybacking on their already existing fanbase and "credibility".

An all female league is a really bad idea until the number of females in the playerbase increases. It would be improbable enough to find five females that could come together as a team and make things happen on par with current teams using the reduced pool we have now but several of them together, is damned impossible. Worse than that, if a women's league is made and the teams are subpar, then members of the "men's league" will inevitably be asked to comment on them by e-sports press and while Alex Ich might sugar coat the need for improvement in a few areas, some others I expect to be less kind, with their respective fanbases watching the whole time.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby philsov » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:46 pm UTC

Drumheller769 wrote:Thank God for the protection period after a promotion. I got promoted to Silver 1 and then proceeded to go on a 5 game losing streak, but it didnt demote me. I finally broke it so now I should be ok to go on another winning streak. Before the losing streak I was on a 9 game winning streak. Im finding that I go on so many streaks now, one way or the other.


How steep are the players in ranked? I'm curious because when I'm level 30 (someday~) I'd like to get my toes wet there. Currently I have two generic rune pages -- they share movement speed quints, yellows for armor, blues for magic resist, and then the red is a mishmash of either AP/mana regen/CD reduction/Magic Pen or AD/attack speed/armor pen/attack speed. Will this suffice or do I need more pages and/or modify the existing pages into character-specific ones which lock me into one or two characters in order to be viable?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

I have 3 rune pages and I feel that i do fine, I have a support/tank page with Armor red/yellow, MR blues and GP5 quints, and then I have a AD focused page, and an AP focused page, both with blue MRs.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:38 pm UTC

I did alright with only 2 rune pages (one for AD, one for AP) when I played SR, but I didn't really play ranked. As of now I make do with 4 rune pages, of which one I rarely use.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:36 pm UTC

philsov wrote:How steep are the players in ranked? I'm curious because when I'm level 30 (someday~) I'd like to get my toes wet there. Currently I have two generic rune pages -- they share movement speed quints, yellows for armor, blues for magic resist, and then the red is a mishmash of either AP/mana regen/CD reduction/Magic Pen or AD/attack speed/armor pen/attack speed. Will this suffice or do I need more pages and/or modify the existing pages into character-specific ones which lock me into one or two characters in order to be viable?


You could play every champ with just like AD reds/quints, Armor yellows, MR blues if you were so inclined. Generally speaking just a couple of pages should let you get away with most of the stuff you want to play. The key is to actually understand how the stats you're getting translate into stuff happening in the game.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:30 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:The latter, I totally agree with. The former, however... is actually potentially part of the path to a solution. An all-female league gives a venue that inherently isn't going to have sexism within the player base (granted, the audience is another matter). Having a competitive environment where female players can grow without having to deal with the proportionally greater burden they would face vs. male gamers in the main leagues (not gameplay-wise, but social-wise) has its benefits, as long as players from that league are free to transfer into the main league (and/or play in both).

I played a different game for about 5 years in variety of teams (with 5-8 players per team), and the teams I was on had a female player more often than not. Now, obviously I'm coming at this as a male, so maybe I missed things, but I don't think the atmosphere was at all sexist within those teams. Sure, the audience, if/when we had one, could still be sexist, but in the team the fact that one of the players was female just wasn't relevant - we were all good friends, had a similar skill level in the game, and spent as much time chatting and joking around out of the game as we did playing it.

It's possible that other teams with a minority of female players did have problems, or that sexism doesn't occur when you're together in the team, but is prevalent in the selection process for new players. But if you're in a serious competitive gaming team, you're spending a lot of time with this small group of people - tens or hundreds of hours a week - and that tends to result in fairly close team bonding (or, if it doesn't, players leaving the team due to internal disagreements), and not much room for prejudice against your teammates.

Having said that, I don't have anything against all-female leagues, per se. They could provide a safer arena for females to play competitively, although the improvement you'd see would be far less than if they were competing in an open field. The problem I have is if they are given large prize money pools and advertised to non-female gamers, because in my experience the advertising is almost universally of the 'sex sells' variety.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:00 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:Yet some other ones become very good, like Poppy.

The only champ I can think of that is really not viable in Dominion is Thresh...every other champ gets played and can shine. Unless there's a Kassadin or a Kha'Zix on the enemy team, that is.

AD Thresh is still a thing, I suppose, but you're totally right thanks to most of his ability to survive coming off of souls; which you're actively slowing your team down by collecting. I tried playing him bot to make up for it, but you start off at such a disadvantage that it feels nearly impossible; and that's ignoring the fact that you lose the purpose of at least one of your spells!
The other way I see it is that supports are still useful in dominion, provided there's at least one person that you stick to like glue AND you play intelligently (going to cap their mid to distract them, etc.), which a lot of people ignore for the sake of trying to overwhelm top with sheer numbers/brute force.

Are we any closer to ranked Dominion? I heard there was a Dominion league, but I'd play the shit out of that.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby philsov » Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

AD Thresh is still a thing, I suppose, but you're totally right thanks to most of his ability to survive coming off of souls; which you're actively slowing your team down by collecting. I tried playing him bot to make up for it, but you start off at such a disadvantage that it feels nearly impossible; and that's ignoring the fact that you lose the purpose of at least one of your spells!


I buddy of mine loves being AD Thresh as top in SR. Maxed death sentence huuuuurts.

I want to try AD Malz in the near future; the minions that spawn get 100% AD and armor pen scaling, and proc black cleaver -- all while retaining the team fight utility of the silence, %health-based AoE, and ranged suppress for ulti. In a spammy scenario I can have like 3 minions up at once...
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Re: League of Legends

Postby setzer777 » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:15 pm UTC

Can someone explain Irelia to me? I tried many her months ago and got her recently in ARAM, but I just can't figure out how to make her work. She seems to get focused down really fast and her ult feels kinda weak. Do you need to build her really tanky to survive teamfights?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:21 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:She seems to get focused down really fast and her ult feels kinda weak. Do you need to build her really tanky to survive teamfights?


Her ult is kinda weak, if you're trying to kill someone with it. It has a very low cooldown, disintegrates minion waves, and restores an embarrassing amount of health (none of which is very useful in ARAM).

Irelia has built-in cc reduction and high natural sustain, so you can usually afford to invest in offense early-ish. Items like Wit's End, Zephyr, and Phage all work really well on her. And then you optimize for total damage output by becoming impossible to kill. GA, Randuin's Omen, Warmog's, Frozen Heart, Bulwark, Spirit Visage, etc. Her builds are very versatile, so you benefit from being keenly aware of what you need and what you can get away with. Provided you can overcome that hurdle, she has basically no bad matchups whatsoever.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:50 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:Can someone explain Irelia to me? I tried many her months ago and got her recently in ARAM, but I just can't figure out how to make her work. She seems to get focused down really fast and her ult feels kinda weak. Do you need to build her really tanky to survive teamfights?
She benefits a lot from attack speed (because of her w) and tankiness (so she can apply w longer), as mentioned above. As Irelia I usually let someone initiate, then go for the squishies and try to kill them ASAP. A thing that helped me play her a bit better was to realize she's not really a tank but a bruiser; as in, she's more like Xin Zhao than Malphite.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:She benefits a lot from attack speed (because of her w) and tankiness (so she can apply w longer), as mentioned above. As Irelia I usually let someone initiate, then go for the squishies and try to kill them ASAP. A thing that helped me play her a bit better was to realize she's not really a tank but a bruiser; as in, she's more like Xin Zhao than Malphite.

I think a lot of people (perhaps me included) have the opposite problem and mistakenly see her more as an assassin than a bruiser, then are never able to get the burst damage out of her that they expect an assassin to have. She is listed as an assassin in the game, I believe, but is best played as a bruiser that sticks on people until they die, rather than your traditional 'jumps on someone and makes them go pop' type glass cannon assassin.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby setzer777 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:03 am UTC

Adacore wrote:
Weeks wrote:She benefits a lot from attack speed (because of her w) and tankiness (so she can apply w longer), as mentioned above. As Irelia I usually let someone initiate, then go for the squishies and try to kill them ASAP. A thing that helped me play her a bit better was to realize she's not really a tank but a bruiser; as in, she's more like Xin Zhao than Malphite.

I think a lot of people (perhaps me included) have the opposite problem and mistakenly see her more as an assassin than a bruiser, then are never able to get the burst damage out of her that they expect an assassin to have. She is listed as an assassin in the game, I believe, but is best played as a bruiser that sticks on people until they die, rather than your traditional 'jumps on someone and makes them go pop' type glass cannon assassin.


This. When I tried her I think I went for too much damage and not enough tankiness. I might be mistaken, but even champs like Xin Zhao and Jax seem more naturally burst-y than Irelia.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:28 am UTC

Yes, I don't think of her as bursty. Xin Zhao and Jax will likely deal more damage quicker.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:11 am UTC

Did a random solo queue ranked fives after doing nothing but ARAM for like a month... picked Karthus, went 13-1-10 or something like that. Felt really good... oh and we won.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:33 am UTC

I wonder how hard it would be for me to get to gold, having not played SR ranked ever.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:25 am UTC

Im back in Silver 1 for the second time this season and I seem to be doing ok, after my short losing streak im winning again consistently. Now I just have to get past this throttling thing. If I win I get 5-8 LP, if I lose I lose 2-5 LP, its odd.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:04 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:I think a lot of people (perhaps me included) have the opposite problem and mistakenly see her more as an assassin than a bruiser, then are never able to get the burst damage out of her that they expect an assassin to have. She is listed as an assassin in the game, I believe, but is best played as a bruiser that sticks on people until they die, rather than your traditional 'jumps on someone and makes them go pop' type glass cannon assassin.

I'm pretty sure the champion tags are based entirely off their abilities. Anyone with a targeted gap closer is an assassin. Anyone with an AS or crit steroid is a carry. Champs sporting both CC and a defensive steroid are labeled tanks. This if why things can seem to be mislabeled from how they are played. There always seems to be like one exception to each category though.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:16 pm UTC

I wouldn't trust the labels. Sure, they can be a way to guide you into a vague sense of the character, but you're better off looking at a champion's skills, whether they're ranged or not, etc., or looking at high elo play of the champion.

I also don't think the attack - health - spells - difficulty ratings are that useful either. They list Ezreal as having good "spells" and "attack", but that doesn't mean you should play him hybrid.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby philsov » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:26 pm UTC

My understanding of that attack/defense stuff was a relative measure on how much AP/HP/Mana they gained on level up rather than an overall rating of the character.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:00 pm UTC

Which can definitely be misleading. Kassadin gets a lot of AD but he isn't played AD. So does Alistar.

(I think you meant AD, champs don't naturally get AP per level)
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:23 pm UTC

So, my main AP champs (Twisted Fate, Karthus, and Lux) are pretty strong and fit a good variety of team compositions. I'm currently trying to determine which three champions in the top and AD role are the best choice. I want champions with either strong carry potential that can win games on their own if my team sucks (by getting back in the game through farming up and split pushing etc). Champs I am currently considering are Tryndamere, Vayne, Twitch, Teemo (ap/atkspd), Singed, and Shen. I know the last two aren't carries, but their split pushing ability and potential to cause mayhem around the map is very strong. Thoughts?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:13 pm UTC

Riven is the classic pick for hard-carrying from the top lane, I'd think. And so long as your map awareness is good, Shen is probably the best split-pusher, obviously.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:17 am UTC

Adacore wrote:Riven is the classic pick for hard-carrying from the top lane, I'd think. And so long as your map awareness is good, Shen is probably the best split-pusher, obviously.


I will have to check Riven out, I've never played her.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:52 am UTC

She has a shield that scales on AD, a stun and a ranged execute ultimate. I don't play her but I know some people that can do frickin' magic with her.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:25 am UTC

Weeks wrote:She has a shield that scales on AD, a stun and a ranged execute ultimate. I don't play her but I know some people that can do frickin' magic with her.


Nice... sounds like my kind of gal. I mean I am familiar with the champion, just haven't really played top much, but I need to diversify and learn to carry from each of the main carry slots... I'm a good support but it's hard to carry a team on support. I suck at jungling so I decided to never do it again lol.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Drumheller769 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:03 pm UTC

Yea, the only counter to a fed riven is at least 3 seconds of hard CC...or someone is going to die because you can only flash once :D.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:51 pm UTC

On top laners: Riven, Rekenton, Trynd are all good top laners for carrying if you play them right. Riven is quite skill dependant and can absolutely crush a lane hard, meaning free farm and kills if jungler doesn't interfere too much. Rekenton is safe, but can be first picked and still carry against almost any team comp. Trynd can split push all day and win late game anyway.
Singed beats a lot of top laners by default and can farm behind towers for a lot of disruption. The only thing I find with singed is that his hard carry potential flattens off late game very quickly vs particular team comps. If they have vayne thresh bot and they get fed, doesn't matter how fed you are you won't be able to carry as hard as quite a few other top laners.

Rumble is also exceptionally good, but doesn't scale as well into late game. He can win against most top laners, does 2v1 well, easily gets fed. Good counter for malphite pick.

It also depends a lot on what rating you're playing against. Some champs work much better at particular ratings; mostly ones that win 1v1 by default and have high kill potential since teamwork isn't as important the lower you go.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:49 pm UTC

elminster wrote:Rumble is also exceptionally good, but doesn't scale as well into late game. He can win against most top laners, does 2v1 well, easily gets fed. Good counter for malphite pick.

One of Rumble's biggest benefits is his ult, though, and that's mostly good for well-coordinated teamfights. Although he can destroy people 1v1 if he gets very fed too. Teamfighting in the jungle or with a mass slow/stun plus Rumble ult can melt an entire team in seconds, but needs to be planned.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:05 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:
elminster wrote:Rumble is also exceptionally good, but doesn't scale as well into late game. He can win against most top laners, does 2v1 well, easily gets fed. Good counter for malphite pick.

One of Rumble's biggest benefits is his ult, though, and that's mostly good for well-coordinated teamfights. Although he can destroy people 1v1 if he gets very fed too. Teamfighting in the jungle or with a mass slow/stun plus Rumble ult can melt an entire team in seconds, but needs to be planned.


I love Rumble but when you're in Bronze IV you can't count on coordinated teamfights and because people really tend to lack when it comes to finishing games at my level, it seems to be a good idea to pick champions that scale very strong in the late game.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:30 pm UTC

Hm, I might try to do SR ranked this season. Would anyone want to duo with me? I suppose us forum folk could play some games together.

Unless you're afraid we're gonna start bickering, because LoL tends to cause that...but I did play with skeptical scientist eons ago and he was really cool about it.
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tompliss
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Re: League of Legends

Postby tompliss » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:03 am UTC

You're on which server ?

You should begin by trying some normal draft games to get used to the system, and maybe play the placing games so someone with a level close to yours can play with you ;)

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Weeks
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:47 pm UTC

I'm on NA as Weeks1.

I already tried draft a few times and I've played draft Dominion many times, I just...never bothered with ranked.
NieXS wrote:Oh god that smiley ruined it.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Mutex wrote:Enjoy the shoe!

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:00 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:Hm, I might try to do SR ranked this season. Would anyone want to duo with me? I suppose us forum folk could play some games together.

Unless you're afraid we're gonna start bickering, because LoL tends to cause that...but I did play with skeptical scientist eons ago and he was really cool about it.


You just have to be chill when duoing with people you actually like. If you want to duo my main is smifcollege, I have an xkcd friends list from ages ago but I don't think most of the people still play, and the ones that do are way higher ranked than I am.

I play a pretty strong support and a pretty strong AD carry, but tend to avoid those roles when I am not duoing because it means I normally have to play with a terrible lane partner. When I am solo I rarely lose when I play midlane on Karthus, TF, or Lux, and my top lane tends to be just OK. I almost never feed regardless of what lane I am in but I'm not always able to carry a team when somebody else feeds. Overall I feel I am fairly average, maybe a little below average in terms of skill in most roles except mid. I am above average in mid but unfortunately everybody wants to play mid. I don't like arguing for a position so if somebody calls it before me, or picks it when drafting even though I called it, I normally keep my mouth shut. They normally end up feeding the opposing mid and losing us the game.
What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby yurell » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:42 am UTC

Oh my God the ping is 300 less on Oceania than North America! It's a wonder I had more than 10% win rate on NA seeing how smoothly this plays.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby philsov » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:48 pm UTC

last night was bad :\

fight 1) Bad support fed bottom lane like a boss. We surrender at 20.
fight 2) dude picks Sivir, I pick Maokai. He asks to swap, I comply. He's now maokai, but runs down to bot and joins me and supp anyways. We now have no jungle gold, no ganks, and then he afk's halfway through. we surrender at 20.
Fight 3) Right off the bat this pair of people call double top; fine, we'll treat them as a funky adc/supp, bot will be "top" and we'll be merry; they go Riven/Teemo and 20 minutes in STILL manage to lose their tower vs a single darius while dealing zero damage to the enemy tower this entire time.
Fight 4) Enemy nunu counterjungles our Udyr; who then ragequits less than 3 minutes in

Bleh.

Did an ARAM after that. Actually won(!); got saddled up with Lux. I can see why she's so popular with her range and her AoE snare and her root and her damage and her shield. And her laser beam of dead is OP in this format. And there was a Jayce on my team as well; the other guys didn't stand a chance :3
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Metaphysician » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:31 pm UTC

yurell wrote:Oh my God the ping is 300 less on Oceania than North America! It's a wonder I had more than 10% win rate on NA seeing how smoothly this plays.


Totally different game right?

So I decided to try an experiment. I started a smurf account because I wanted to give myself a challenge (I know, sounds lame). My main problem with playing my main account is that I have trouble learning new roles and champions because it's difficult to just play one role consistently. I've been wanting to focus on playing hyper carries top and adc hypercarries like Vayne and Twitch. I also wanted to learn how to never rely on my team being good to win games. The reason I want to focus on top and bot instead of mid is because you can push towers by yourself and if you take the game late, you can farm up and carry super hard. There are simply more options when playing AD based champions. So I have been playing mostly tryndamere on my smurf and getting to the point where I know the character pretty well. The inexperience of my opponents has enabled me to begin learning a more aggressive playstyle which is good as when I learned to play the game people were pretty passive and I have a hard time gauging when to be aggressive in lane, and what trades I can make. You also play against a wider variety of champions and teamcomps on a smurf.

I know most people consider smurfing lame but I am finding it to be valuable in helping me accomplish my play goals.

I carried yesterday with Tryndamere going 23-8-15 (or some such) for the win when we were 4v5 the whole game and 3v5 for the last ten minutes.
What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured.
-Kurt Vonnegut

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Weeks
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:45 pm UTC

I don't think there's anything particularly bad about smurfing. Play below level 30 is not as serious.
NieXS wrote:Oh god that smiley ruined it.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Mutex wrote:Enjoy the shoe!


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