League of Legends

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ProZac
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:08 pm UTC

The idea of "I am not with you, DO NOT ENGAGE" is lost on most people. Even when playing with friends, the inclination to stay by your minions and poke is strong, even if that's within flash+engage range. Hell, I might have played a game against you. Sometime in the past week, I played a game as Rammus where both teams were 5v5 in mid and their Yi decided to roam to push another lane since nothing was happening. The second I saw him near Baron, I powerballed in with my boots of mobility. Even with their escapes, Rammus is faster. Granted, if that was you, you are a rager, and shame on you :P .

The advice I always go with for solo queue (which I think might have come from someone on here) is "If you think something is going to happen, treat it like it will". Does it look like someone might start a dumb fight in the jungle? Go there just in case. Teams grouping and a fight might break out? Better be there just in case.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:28 pm UTC

I hear it referred to as "Murphy's Law".
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Ixtellor
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:50 pm UTC

ProZac wrote: Hell, I might have played a game against you. Sometime in the past week, I played a game as Rammus where both teams were 5v5 in mid and their Yi decided to roam to push another lane since nothing was happening. The second I saw him near Baron, I powerballed in with my boots of mobility. Even with their escapes, Rammus is faster. Granted, if that was you, you are a rager, and shame on you :P .


Wasn't me and I don't rage.
I was completly shut down by a Riven who did that though.

The advice I always go with for solo queue (which I think might have come from someone on here) is "If you think something is going to happen, treat it like it will". Does it look like someone might start a dumb fight in the jungle? Go there just in case. Teams grouping and a fight might break out? Better be there just in case


Thats good advice I need to take more.
When I mid, I keep failing to notice when my jungler tries to steal red at level 2. So by the time I get there, he is usually dead or the enemy gets away.

New Question:
Zed.... how much do you love/fear him?
I pretty much see a Zed in every game now unless he is banned. He is my worst nightmare as Kassadin, even more than Talon now.

Two kind of OP champs I don't own are Fizz and Zed, need to correct that soon.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:01 am UTC

I like Zed so long as your team doesn't get behind and/or the game doesn't go super-late. If you give the opponents' squishies enough space in their builds to get defensive items (Zhonya's Hourglass/Quicksilver Sash), then Zed becomes nearly useless compared to most of the other assassin mids, and will start losing 1v1s against enemy carries, which is disastrous for an assassin. Purely on that basis, I'm not really a fan of him.

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Kag
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:48 am UTC

Ixtellor wrote:My KD's are great when the games are evenly matched (i.e. no trolls).


This will skew towards games where you have an advantage, since you can't always see trolls on the enemy team.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby philsov » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:15 pm UTC

Anyone play twisted treeline/3's regularly? I wanna dip my hand into that. I did a game or two versus bots to mess with some of the concepts, and then did one game versus other people where I got carried by a malphite rocking boots + 5x Zeal.

I'm curious how the usual meta/manner of play is. Is there a lot of jungle farming? Or double laning, and if so, which lane? Emphasis of cs vs kills? What's a good level to hit up the baron-like-spider thing?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:43 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Thats good advice I need to take more.
When I mid, I keep failing to notice when my jungler tries to steal red at level 2. So by the time I get there, he is usually dead or the enemy gets away.
Don't just pay attention when the jungler steals their red. Watch when he's doing his red too, especially if he's a tank jungler. When I Rammus, things like Lee and J4 love to fight at red. It has the added bonus of getting used to watching the jungle around that time, no matter what's going on.

philsov wrote:Anyone play twisted treeline/3's regularly? I wanna dip my hand into that. I did a game or two versus bots to mess with some of the concepts, and then did one game versus other people where I got carried by a malphite rocking boots + 5x Zeal.

I'm curious how the usual meta/manner of play is. Is there a lot of jungle farming? Or double laning, and if so, which lane? Emphasis of cs vs kills?
I do! Or did. I haven't played nearly as regularly recently, but I still play it from time to time. There isn't really a set meta though. In my experience, 2 solo lanes and a jungler is most common (it's what my team runs). Duo bot is also a thing though. Pretty much any Bruiser is a good choice. Pure Tanks work a little less well, but can do well in the right comp. ADCs work if the have an escape, and the lack of Thornmail nearly makes them auto-win if you're not running an assassin and it gets to late game. Assassin's typically don't work well outside of that because of the prevalence of bruisers and the lack of squishy targets. Certain Mages work extremely well. The ones able to kite and provide utility, such as Zyra, Cassiopeia, and Orianna. As far as objectives, control the points when you can, but don't die to take/defend them. Spider is equivalant to Baron. Unless you're really far ahead, if they come in on you doing it, they will murder you. Be careful about when you take it.

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Ixtellor
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:50 pm UTC

philsov wrote:Anyone play twisted treeline/3's regularly? I wanna dip my hand into that. I did a game or two versus bots to mess with some of the concepts, and then did one game versus other people where I got carried by a malphite rocking boots + 5x Zeal.

I'm curious how the usual meta/manner of play is. Is there a lot of jungle farming? Or double laning, and if so, which lane? Emphasis of cs vs kills? What's a good level to hit up the baron-like-spider thing?


I played it for a while.
Yes Bruisers -- or tanky champs that can also dish Damage (I used Mundo a lot)

1) Make sure you get the buffs.
2) In my experience it was mostly about Kills and not CS.
1 person in each lane and 3rd guy perma ganks. Only jungle when there is no one to gank or its not safe to do so. And then half the time have all 3 champs ganking.

3) The people in the lanes should hide as much as possible to prevent the other team from getting comfortable jungling or pushing lanes. Always keep them guessing where you are.

4) The pre minon release portion of the game I found was quite important. Your goal should be to win the initial fight and try to get both buffs.
RUN to a bush upon spawn (whole team) you want to gank from and as soon as somone face checks it, get FB.

5) The only squishy I ever played was Teemo and that was for map control. I don't think I would use him now.

6) Brusier bruiser brusier brusier.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:07 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:4) The pre minon release portion of the game I found was quite important. Your goal should be to win the initial fight and try to get both buffs.
RUN to a bush upon spawn (whole team) you want to gank from and as soon as somone face checks it, get FB.
This isn't a thing. Not anymore at least. On release, the altars unlocked at 2:00, with minions hitting lane about 1:45 (spawn at 1:20) However, now they unlock at 3:00. There is no guaranteed fight over the initial unlock. People will rush the brushes, and you should too, but mostly defensively, unless you have a team built for level 1 fights. My team will never fight at level 1, we don't pick champs suited for it.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:09 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:
Ixtellor wrote:4) The pre minon release portion of the game I found was quite important. Your goal should be to win the initial fight and try to get both buffs.
RUN to a bush upon spawn (whole team) you want to gank from and as soon as somone face checks it, get FB.
This isn't a thing. Not anymore at least. .


Good to know, thanks for the update.

My team will never fight at level 1, we don't pick champs suited for it


Premade team?

Although any team could fight at level 1 if you have the numbers or the surprise.

Question: Do you ever see 'support champs'? I never did in my experience, but seems like a Blitz or Sona could be viable. Maybe Leona?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:32 pm UTC

So who do you guys think is gonna win worlds? (Spoilers, the correct answer is SKT T1)
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:42 am UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Question: Do you ever see 'support champs'? I never did in my experience, but seems like a Blitz or Sona could be viable. Maybe Leona?


Leona is really good. Blitz, Thresh, and Nami are all strong as well. For that matter, champions that take advantage of the narrowness of the map are very good in general. So Cassiopeia and Annie, for example, are extremely strong there.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:54 am UTC

Weeks wrote:So who do you guys think is gonna win worlds? (Spoilers, the correct answer is SKT T1)

I agree on SKT, although I think Royal have a chance, at least. I think fnatic actually would've had a better playstyle to go up against SKT than Royal, but they didn't adapt to Royal's hyper-aggressive play fast enough. SKT won't make the same mistake, they might lose one game, maybe two, but I think they'll figure out how Royal work and shut them down.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:51 pm UTC

I'm rooting for Royal, because I have yet to be impressed by a Korean team and want to see the tears of sadness when that hype train derails.

Ixtellor wrote:Premade team?

Although any team could fight at level 1 if you have the numbers or the surprise.

Question: Do you ever see 'support champs'? I never did in my experience, but seems like a Blitz or Sona could be viable. Maybe Leona?
Yes, I only plays 3's in ranked. And when you run things like Rammus, Wukong, Zyra, you really don't have shit for teamfight at lvl 1 against things like Lee, Jarvan, Garen, Renekton...

As for supports, they're pretty rare, but you see them all. Probably see Leona the most, as she is actually tanky, and brings a ton of Hard CC, which is usually lacking on typical 3's champs. If there is a support, it's normally combo'd with an ADC.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:37 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:Yes, I only plays 3's in ranked


I didn't know they had ranked 3v3.

Challenge accepted.

SoloQ 3's here I come.

I'm thinking Jax or malphite.

Do they have bans in 3v3?
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Kag
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:03 pm UTC

They do have bans (protip ban singed). I don't think there's solo queue, though.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:34 am UTC

Kag wrote:They do have bans (protip ban singed). I don't think there's solo queue, though.


Yea there is no ranked solo q.
Got an easy win as Kassadin in ranked, then I went 4-0-1 as Jungle yi and lost badly, our mid said he was too drunk to play and went 1-12. Or support zyra said he had lag, 3-13-5. Ranked is cool.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:59 pm UTC

Yes there is ranked 3's, but no SoloQ. Only premade teams. And yes to bans, 3 just like SR.

And I think I need to stop duo'ing with my friend or something. We had a like 75% win rate before hitting gold. Once gold, this has dropped to about 10% (not including pre-gold). When I play solo, I seem to get about 50%, but I get more LP for a win than a loss. I still don't understand the huge jump. And while he usually ends up support, and I jungle, it'd be nice for ANY lane to actually win. I know I should be turning some of these favorable, and he should be helping stomp bot, it's just not happening. Or I can be successful, but one lane has tanked so hard it's irrelevant. We did have one successful game last night where he got mid, and I jungled. We were like 9 - 1, but a stupid Baron attempt (after trading their jungle and mid for our support) where we baited them in, but our top and ADC stayed out baron while we fought the cost of. Which we would have had that fight if they peeled off. They were outnumbered, and we dropped nearly all of them to half with a Shyv/Ori ult combo. They aced us and took Baron instead.

In fact, most of my games seem to get turned by people that want to Baron when we have no right to. We killed a single person (jungler or support) on the other team? Let's go Baron. I think I might enter a complete and total Baron refusal in ranked.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:And I think I need to stop duo'ing with my friend or something


When you duo you are supposed to be matched against better opponants. I see that when I am ALWAYS last pick when I duo.

Or you are experiencing what I am.
I have been promoted to Silver 2, 4 times. I have been demoted 3 times.
The games are just garbage.

Although my last loss was 100% my fault. I went full tank Jax in a game my team was losing BADLY. We actually came back to tie up the game k/d wise. Then I went stupid and starting initiating badly.

My last, game ending initiation was when I started my E (stun) and just couldn't help myself leaping on their Varus even though my team was WAY out of position.
Even with my Ult up and nothing but tank items, I MELTED then the team aced my team.

That + 3 other really bad initations + 1 face check = team lost.
(Our ADC was very medicore, so couldn't make up for my suicide leaps on their Varus or Ahri)
[What was most aggrvating was that I hit EVERY SINGLE stun that game and 90% of the time they escaped alive]
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:57 pm UTC

I don't think we were ever far apart in Elo , but when in Silver, he was ALWAYS first pick, and I was ALWAYS last. He hit gold a few games before me, but immediately when I did, we both started ending up 4th and 5th. It wasn't that big of a deal, but I prefer Jungle or ADC and he prefers mid or support. Since we are now both always last, he is always support, and I am usually just fill, which is jungle most of the time. On the other hand, we always get matched against duo queues which (for a long time) were usually Diamond + Gold. So Diamond player always got their preferred role and wrecked.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:42 pm UTC

Recently when duoing:
on my smurf (silver 1 atm) with my bronze 1 friend (32win/38loss) I'm always first pick, he's always last. Games average around silver 2/3.
on my smurf with my silver 1 friend (actually much higher, but 20win, 11loss), he's always first, I'm always last (Fewer games, high hidden rating). Games average around gold 3 (had some low hidden rated plat 5's in last 2 games).
on my main, everyone else is higher rated, so were always last. e.g.Last ranked game. Games average around diamond 3.

It seems like duoing boosts the rating by around 1 to 2 divisions worth over your duos average. That's my best guess anyway.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:46 pm UTC

elminster wrote:It seems like duoing boosts the rating by around 1 to 2 divisions worth over your duos average. That's my best guess anyway.


I have one duo partner he was silver 1 (when I was silver 4), and I was always last pick, he was always 1st or 4th. Most games were against Gold 5's, 4's and silver 1's.

On a side note. Holy crap you have a lot of regular games under belt.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:32 pm UTC

philsov wrote:Anyone play twisted treeline/3's regularly? I wanna dip my hand into that. I did a game or two versus bots to mess with some of the concepts, and then did one game versus other people where I got carried by a malphite rocking boots + 5x Zeal.

I'm curious how the usual meta/manner of play is. Is there a lot of jungle farming? Or double laning, and if so, which lane? Emphasis of cs vs kills? What's a good level to hit up the baron-like-spider thing?


I do a lot of 3v3s.

Some things to note:

1) Jungle is super easy, you really can jungle with anyone
2) There is a lot more skirmishing than 5v5
3) Mobile champs like kassadin can basically gank bot and then go back top without losing any cs
4) Because the walls are different widths than 5v5s, some champs like kassadin are extra mobile (kass can make it over the wall separating top lane from jungle, and from nexus to jungle), but like fizz (who is still amazing on this) can barely clear any walls on the map with playful/trickster
5) Single target cc is much stronger (since you are controlling 1/3rd of the enemy instead of 1/5th)
6) Whenever you have the advantage, you should be taking an objective, either an altar or a tower. That said, if you get a kill but are now low, its not worth getting aced over an altar
7) Hybrid champs with double altar buff are super strong, avoid engaging

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Biliboy » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:51 am UTC

Kag wrote:They do have bans (protip ban singed). I don't think there's solo queue, though.


You weren't kidding... I've been going about 50/50 wins in solo queue TT, with lee sin and other bruiser types, sometimes shaco or teemo... saw your post, tried singed, and went 7 wins in a row... only stopped because i'm getting tired.

Only two close games, one vs aatrox/olaf/darius, and one vs sejuani/teemo/nidalee, and the last one was only close because my internet was acting up for about 5 minutes.

Once singed gets rod of ages and tenacity boots it's gg.... if it goes longer than that rylais/liandries is just funny.

I take ghost/exhaust, poison first in case of team fight at lvl 1, then play it safe till lvl 3 and start roaming, jungling, and making a nuisance of myself.

The best part is when poison gets the kill you don't get yelled at for kill stealing.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby yurell » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:30 am UTC

I found the finals to be incredibly
Spoiler:
disappointing. It was so incredibly one-sided it wasn't funny — SKT played solidly throughout the games, and RYL just kept making mistakes for them to catalyse off.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:31 pm UTC

yurell wrote:I found the finals to be incredibly
Spoiler:
disappointing. It was so incredibly one-sided it wasn't funny — SKT played solidly throughout the games, and RYL just kept making mistakes for them to catalyse off.

I completely agree.
Spoiler:
I was really hoping Royal would pull something together for at least one of the games, and make a bit of a contest of it, but they never did. They had a chance in game 2, but Godlike getting caught in the jungle screwed them. And then when they actually had half-decent lane matchups in the 3rd game they just fell apart.

I have no idea why they insisted on keeping the Vi ban, though, rather than switching it out to Jax. At least make SKT move a little bit away from what they'd obviously planned out for the game.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:39 am UTC

Yep.
Spoiler:
Called it, of course, that SKT would win, but I didn't think they'd win that hard. That was just amazing, and rather disappointing at the same time.

The only thing I can hope is that NA somehow learns from this.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby yurell » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:43 am UTC

Weeks wrote:Yep.
Spoiler:
Called it, of course, that SKT would win, but I didn't think they'd win that hard. That was just amazing, and rather disappointing at the same time.

The only thing I can hope is that NA somehow learns from this.


Spoiler:
I would have been fine with SKT stomping RYL if they had been good games; if they made some brilliant plays that ended up stomping them, I would have left with a smile on my face. But they stomped RYL because RYL kept doing stupid things and SKT punished them consistently for it. It was the kind of massacre that results from your opponents playing badly, not you playing fantastically (not to say that they don't play fantastically, but all things relative).
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

I watched games 1 and 2 of the finals.

Spoiler:
I enjoyed watching Kassadin being used. It reaffirmed my going RoA, since he was unable to do anything other than finish off champs until he finished his zhonyas.

My favorite moment was when Ez R'ed and sniped a recalling Vayne in bottom river bush allowing his team to get an easy kill on him.

I also thought Piglet was brilliant on his Ez with his multiple W kills on fleeing champs. Especially the snipe at Vayne hugging a tower.

It seemed to me like Royal lost because they tower dove too many times when they should have played safe like SKT did every game.

I also was intrigued by top lane jax who basically said 'fuck it' and just went and killed golems at top lane against ranged harass and just tower hugged last hits when lane got pushed.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:03 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:
Spoiler:
It seemed to me like Royal lost because they tower dove too many times when they should have played safe like SKT did every game.

I also was intrigued by top lane jax who basically said 'fuck it' and just went and killed golems at top lane against ranged harass and just tower hugged last hits when lane got pushed.

Spoiler:
Diving towers at every opportunity is Royal's signature style of play. If they're completely, perfectly coordinated it wins them lots of objectives very early which they can then snowball into a win. If they're not, it's a terrible strategy and allows opponents to get easy kills. Against SKT, their tower dives just weren't good enough - I don't think SKT really did anything special to counter them, it was just that Royal didn't have their teamplay tight enough for it to work.

The side solo-lane going to get a jungle camp before coming to lane and tower-hugging is turning into the standard meta in pro play. 2v1 matchups happen more often than not at the moment, and when they do a solo laner can't safely farm unless they're under turret. The duo lane knows this, and normally tries to freeze lane away from the turret, which means the solo laner has time to get a jungle camp and go back to lane without missing any (safely available) gold or XP.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:36 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Completely agree that the finals sucked. Even aside from SKT1 winning, only game 2 was thoroughly entertaining. Game 1 had it's moments, but the series lacked any real tension. The only thing it did for me was made me realize I will never go to an event that is just a single best of 5. I had an interest in going to see it live, but decided it wasn't worth it. I would have been pissed if I dropped a few hundred to see that.

I also think Riot needs to do something about snowballing at the top level. Most games are lost by the 10 minute mark, and the only winning strategy (or at least the only thing we saw even make it to quarterfinals) was "early and continued aggression". There is no "late game protect the carry", "mid game team fight synergy", or poke comp anymore. I think through the entirety of Worlds, first inhib always ended in a win as well. The sole exception was a Royal vs Oh me yarm game, where Royal traded Baron against a split pusher, but immediately won with that Baron buff. First inhib should definitely lead to a win most of the time, but essentially 100% seems excessive.

Nork
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Nork » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:25 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:I also think Riot needs to do something about snowballing at the top level.


I agree that it needs to be done, but I have no idea how to do it effectively. The current format is:

Code: Select all

1: Do well
2: Get money/buff/XP
3: Use money/buff/XP to extend lead
4: Goto 1

On the other hand, if doing well doesn't give you any advantage, the format becomes:

Code: Select all

1: Do well
2: ???
3: Somebody wins eventually

If you get no reward for doing things well, the game loses all it's strategy. On the other hand, getting rewarded for doing things well is the core of how snowballing works.

Intrigued
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:48 pm UTC

I don't think anyone is arguing to REMOVE snowballing. Like you pointed out, that doesn't make any sense, it would involve making victory unrelated to how well you play. What is being suggested is a "tone down" of the snowballing, such that comebacks are easier under certain conditions. I don't know if the data is there to support it though. Is getting an inhibitor down such an extreme advantage that it almost always leads to a win, or is getting an inhibitor down a sign that you've already gained a significant enough advantage that you've won the game if you don't screw up massively? I think the answer is somewhere in between. Things that could be done to change the "inhibitor down basically equals auto-win" -

scale back the advantage of downing an inhibitor -
-tone down the super creeps, less health/damage, etc.
-make inhibitors respawn faster
-make super creeps worth more gold
-tower respawns when inhibitor does

make downing an inhibitor less of an indicator of a "decided" game -
-make inhibitors EASIER to take down - inhibitors may go down when the game hasn't yet been decided
-make taking down the nexus towers/nexus much harder (more damage/health/regen/special abilities on those towers) - when a team has a significant advantage they may be able to break the 3rd line of defense, but they may not be able to finish the 4th
-increase the difficulty of taking down 2nd/3rd inhibitors when the first is down

Obviously this isn't an exhaustive list, but there's some examples of some changes (some simple, some complex, some major, some minor) they could make to change the high win rate that is currently connected to the "first inhibitor down" metric.

ProZac
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:10 pm UTC

Yeah, while I think something should probably change, it's not like I'm sitting here with any grand ideas. The best I've heard is to remove the buff on the minions in OTHER lanes when the inhib is down. But as noted, that doesn't address the "is taking an inhib a sign that you're just that far ahead". I feel odd when you see teams win with only a single inhib down. I do feel that 2 should pretty much guarantee a win unless you seriously screw upl Maybe they could tie the Nexus towers defense/damage to the number of inhibs up? 2 inhibs down and they're like normal towers, 3 inhibs down and they're like butter?

I also don't know how that'll affect lower level play. At least around gold it's so easy to throw. Once a single inhibitor is down it's like people lose any concept of what to do and coordination. One person wants to just push into their base in the downed inhib lane, another wants to take baron, another just wants to bait baron, another wants to split push, and the last guy wants to group and siege a remaining tower (and any single one of these would technically work... if everyone worked towards the same one, but no one does).

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Biliboy » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

I wouldn't mind seeing the last two turrets be a bit stronger, maybe bring back the aoe damage from that old summoner spell? As it is, by the time you get to those two turrets, someone has enough armor to just facetank it with no minions, and someone else has enough damage/attack speed to drop it in seconds.

Give that last person alive a chance to defend with proper use of cc, instead of just being a snack hiding futilely under two turrets.

As a matter of fact, I'd like to see slightly faster scaling on turrets entirely, as it is the first turret is just about right, you can take 2-3 hits early game, then have to back out, so a fast enough dive works, but you can't stay all day. By the 2nd or 3rd turret, I've seen people stay under for 5-6 hits and walk away at 30% health... keep them fairly dangerous without minions nearby.

I like the idea of giving the inner turrets buffs based on the number of inhibs still up, that gives people the general guideline of 'take all inhibs and win' but still leaves room for just diving one lane if you feel prepared for it.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Nork » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:32 pm UTC

In that case, I'd think some equalizing effects might help. Possibilities:
- Destroying a tower makes all your towers weaker, giving the other team a chance to catch up.
- Destroying a tower makes all the enemy's towers stronger, making it harder for you to extend your lead.
- Return the bounty/diminishing returns system for kills to it's previous state (and fix Singed).
- Give players a stacking buff for each missing tower on their team (creating an odd balance where destroying a tower hurts your team, but is necessary to actually win).

I like the idea of a mechanic where gaining objectives is necessary, but gives the other team some type of advantage. It would promote additional strategic decision making - do you clear everything and hope that the map control gives you an edge, or do you focus on a single lane to try to minimize the benefit the other team gets from lost towers? There's always the risk that the ideal strategy would become "drag out the laning phase until you win a team fight, then try to end the game".

Unfortunately, most of these ideas would draw out the game, and I think Riot would prefer to keep them shorter.

Intrigued
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Intrigued » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:50 pm UTC

Yeah, you have to be really careful. When you have to do something to win the game but it directly and artificially makes the opposing team stronger, that's counter-intuitive and the definition of "anti-fun". As you pointed out, I think it'd lead to people holding off on taking objectives until they were sure they could make a huge dent (e.g. trying NOT to push until they knew they could push to win), which makes for a less interesting to watch game. Obviously any change you make to the game can be viewed in a positive or negative light, but this type of change, in particular, riot has pretty adamantly opposed, and with good reason.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:11 pm UTC

Dominion games are shorter, more engaging, and have (deeply flawed) comeback mechanics. If Riot fixed the latter, we could have a very interesting to watch game mode. Tourneys in Dominion are already pretty amazing to watch as it is.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby ProZac » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:14 pm UTC

On the idea of making taking towers causing the enemy team to get stronger... Intrigued mostly covered it, but I'm strongly opposed. that immediately reminds me of the old TT, where taking an inhib before you were certain to take nexus pretty much made you lose. The prime objective of the game is to kill the nexus. The *only* thing required to complete that is to take towers. There should be no negative consequences as you work toward the prime objective. I feel like there are games that have that kind of mechanic, but I don't think it belongs in LoL.

On Dominion... I don't think there's enough interest to do that. I would certainly like to see it some, as like a small side tourney or something, but they should stay focused on SR. I have actually taken to playing Dominion over ARAM when I only have time for a quick game. I can at least guarantee I won't have to play something I hate, and matches feel less 1 sided.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:12 pm UTC

I think towers damage should be buffed more, mostly percentage armour penetration,
One of the problems with snowballing is that towers don't provide the protection to even sit in lane safely to try come back. With champions like Aatrox with enhanced tower diving, you practically stand no chance if you're a little bit behind on some champions.
It should be more risky to dive with only a small advantage. Not having enough risk makes some more divable champs less viable and removes comebacks. Having the lane advantage already allows you to freeze the lane if you want to deny. I've said the same thing for a very long time, they buffed it a few times, but it's not quite where it needs to be.

Ixtellor wrote:On a side note. Holy crap you have a lot of regular games under belt.
Kinda. I mean, yeah that's quite a lot compared to the average, although there's loads with more.
Best example: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/19055624 . Probably the most games on any account in the world. Assuming 50% win rate, 30min games on average, that's almost 4 years of 5 hours per day on average.

At my current rate, my smurf will hit plat from mostly duoing with still-bronze friend (1 win away from silver). Still tiny champ pool of mostly 'unviable' stuff and no full set of T3 runes. Favourite has been Sion mid. I'm pretty sure any reasonable silver/gold player could learn to carry with Sion mid to a high %. People don't know how to deal with it.
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