League of Legends

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Adacore
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:01 am UTC

If you kill someone that's just getting stomped, the minimum 50 gold for kill is actually less than the corresponding increase in your value (factoring in the assist gold just increases both numbers by 50%). Thus, it's almost guaranteed to be negative value for your team overall, unless you make use of the death time to take an objective.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:10 am UTC

Adacore wrote:If you kill someone that's just getting stomped, the minimum 50 gold for kill is actually less than the corresponding increase in your value (factoring in the assist gold just increases both numbers by 50%). Thus, it's almost guaranteed to be negative value for your team overall, unless you make use of the death time to take an objective.


If you lose more than a handful of cs, its negative for you.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:41 pm UTC

Personally, I have tried to adjust my mentality to make everything about objectives.
When I get kills, I immediatly look for an objective that can be taken.

I have also gotten a lot better about calling for dragon when I see enemy jungler top -- I didn't really recognize that opportunity before but now its part of my wiring to look for it.

What I find is that this is not consistently translating into wins (I am currently on a huge losing streak (3-7)).
I think I am going to change up my champs and start only picking champs that can take objectives by themselves and stop relying on help --- which I am thinking will require tanky AD's like Garen.
I have had success with Riven and Aatrox before so might bring them back into my mix.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:27 am UTC

I was watching a bronze players stream for 2 games, he actually played really well... except they didn't take objectives when they could have done. Dragon was left when it could have safely been taken, baron calls were non-existent (Really I still wouldn't risk it if you don't have a good understanding), and kills were done ONLY for the sake of killing. People would literally back away from free towers (Near impossible to die while doing them) to go back to base or to help another lane which didn't need it or go kill jungle monsters.

Then came all the terrible engages. Just so many where it was almost certainly going to end bad. 90% of the difference between the bronze games I watched and diamond was decision making. Sure there was mechanical failures, lower map awareness, etc, but the biggest failures were deciding to go somewhere when you should be somewhere else or engaging at a bad time, etc.

If that exactly same bronze player was in the right place each time, or taking objectives at the right time, he'd be at platinum. Literally that's all it would take.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Biliboy » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:07 pm UTC

I wonder if part of the problem is that perhaps in lower rankings people are still thinking about getting a full build, and then ending the game, instead of ending the game as fast as possible. There's a certain emotional payout from finishing big items/all 6 items.

I haven't watched the buy order on many high level matches, so I'm curious if a better strategy is to go one item at a time, whichever is needed, or go for 3-4 of the 'mid-level' items like brutalizer/zeal and build up after that.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:31 pm UTC

Biliboy wrote:I haven't watched the buy order on many high level matches, so I'm curious if a better strategy is to go one item at a time, whichever is needed, or go for 3-4 of the 'mid-level' items like brutalizer/zeal and build up after that.

Normally top players try to buy big items one at a time, for maximum value, but it's somewhat situational and if they're forced to back without enough gold for a full top tier item, and think they'll be in an important teamfight before they get to back again, then they'll buy multiple 'mid-level' items instead.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:49 pm UTC

It depends on the item and situation. Brutalizer is a fairly common item to buy and not complete until later on.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:37 am UTC

Today was a good day for LoL: I won an Riot Nasus k-9 skin in a raffle; got to the finals of a 1v1 tourney with 40 people where I'm going to win either a 880 or 1960RP prize tomorrow; got smurf into diamond.

They could make more emotional value on taking objectives by improving the graphics/notification/sounds associated with them. Too many people come from other games and think "oh wow, I'm getting loads of kills, I'm winning" when, in reality, kills have little to do with winning. Which kills, when and where is far more important than the number of them and all kills have different values where gold value is only a smaller part of that equation.

Also, pretty much what Adacore said about items.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:33 pm UTC

Biliboy wrote:I wonder if part of the problem is that perhaps in lower rankings people are still thinking about getting a full build, and then ending the game, instead of ending the game as fast as possible. There's a certain emotional payout from finishing big items/all 6 items.
.


I think the biggest problem is that most of them are raging toxic idiots.
1) In pretty much every game I am in people go for Baron at the wrong time.

2) I have lost many games because my team chased down a fleeing champ instead of taking objectives, but I have won many games because when my team loses a team fight I flee TOWARDS their base thus luring all the morons away from my objectives.

3) Silver league mentality is Kills > Baron > CS > Dragon > Towers > Inhibitors

4) Had a caitlyn (1-9) on my team yesterday that didn't use her E a single time. So then she raged on her team for not peeling for her... even though the whole team was trying to peel for her. Watching an enemy Garen kill a Caitlyn at will because she doesn't know what E does... is not fun.

5) Another problem is smurfs. The skill level ranges are insane. Since I am not a Smurf my team has a 20% lower chance of having a smurf.

Had a game where enemy elise annouces "im a smurf" --- he was. He carried a team of utter garbage because my team of geniuses targeted FULL tank elise every single fight. I must have typed "stop targeting elise" 100 times... to no avail.

I hate humanity or at least the portion that plays LoL.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:25 am UTC

Ixtellor wrote:5) Another problem is smurfs. The skill level ranges are insane. Since I am not a Smurf my team has a 20% lower chance of having a smurf.


It's apparently very easy to convince you that someone is a smurf. People who have completely unremarkable match histories over 100+ games are exceedingly unlikely to be smurfing. I have yet to hear about a person claiming in game to be a smurf who didn't fit that profile. If people above your level are not dumb, then doing well against people you think are dumb shouldn't be strong evidence that someone is vastly more skilled.

Anyway, by your own observations, you mostly run into people dragging their team down. That's usually a totally non-credible narrative, but it would mean that not being a rager or a smurf would still skew the odds in your favor.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:17 pm UTC

1) I probably should not have said smurf when what I really meant was the vast skill level differences in silver. Caits that don't know how to use E versus Caits that DO know how to kite. In reality there were probably only 3 people who claimed to be smurfs that I believed.

2) You use to many negatives (Kag) your sentences are hard to follow. Or "thats usually a totally non-credible narrative" Why put the word totally in there? It serves no purpose other than to clutter up your sentence and is basically redundant.

3) Anyway, you made a good point about smurfs, but I'm really just puzzled by the wide range of skill levels in Silver.

4) Could the new Feral Flare change the meta? I was wondering if a double jungle would be viable now.
Seems like you would have to adapt to bottom lane.
I was thinking Ren top, Ziggs mid, Chogoth Bottom, Yi and Jax Jungle.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:57 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:1) I probably should not have said smurf when what I really meant was the vast skill level differences in silver.


OK, but that has the exact same problem. If they're vastly more or less skilled, they wouldn't be getting matched with you.

People have good or bad games, and you only get to see one. Weaker players are notoriously inconsistent, but on average, they're playing about as well as you.

Also, double jungle is probably still bad. The team you list doesn't really have an answer for eurolane push.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:49 pm UTC

Kag wrote:OK, but that has the exact same problem. If they're vastly more or less skilled, they wouldn't be getting matched with you.


Everyone of my duo partners are in gold or plat now. And I met them all in game and they were impressed enough with my game play that the friended me. And since lots of them are plat now, clearly they were vastly more skilled AND getting matched with me.

A lot of people are just going through silver on their way to higher levels. I doubt that is true of platinum, I imagine a majority of platinum players are there to stay for long periods of time.

So in my games there are people destined for platinum + people that don't know what skills their champ has and/or how to avoid a blitz grab, etc.

So there is a HUGE difference between having a bad game and knowing how to E as Cait, or having a bad game and putting down ZERO wards as top lane. Or having a bad game and having ZERO map awareness. (Having an enemy jungler invade and watching the lanes do NOTHING about it is my biggest aggrevation + when I'm playing in a lane I LOVE invasions because it means free kills and setting their jungler back)
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:37 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Everyone of my duo partners are in gold or plat now. And I met them all in game and they were impressed enough with my game play that the friended me. And since lots of them are plat now, clearly they were vastly more skilled AND getting matched with me.


That's not a counterexample, unless their match history shows they were playing at a higher level when they met you, or they were just fresh out of placements. A more reasonable inference is that they improved more quickly than you.

A lot of people are just going through silver on their way to higher levels. I doubt that is true of platinum, I imagine a majority of platinum players are there to stay for long periods of time.


Uh, no? Placement matches will work with the same accuracy for all levels of skill, except anyone above plat was placed into plat, so they're more likely to move up quickly.

Anyway, what difference does it make to you? It's not like that changes what you should do, which is play better.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:38 pm UTC

Kag wrote:That's not a counterexample, unless their match history shows they were playing at a higher level when they met you, or they were just fresh out of placements. A more reasonable inference is that they improved more quickly than you


Every duo partner I accepted, was only because they stomped in game. Then every time we duo'ed we stomped the enemy team. I had 80% win rates with all my old duo partners. (Old meaning beginning of this season).
They didn't just get better, they were really good and in all our games we dominated.

So being that you believe I am horrible and I am in silver because of my horrible play, that would mean that my duo partners carried me (if your right) --- meaning that they were WAY better than their placements in my league would suggest... thus proving my point.

Uh, no? Placement matches will work with the same accuracy for all levels of skill, except anyone above plat was placed into plat, so they're more likely to move up quickly.


A lot of gold and plat players were placed in bronze and silver at the beginning of this season. Those guys having just been moving through silver on their way back up versus the old silvers and bronzes who are grinding out games trying to get better --- In silver league you play against platinum players.
Not to mention the good players that intentionally sabotage their wins to stay in low leagues.


Anyway, what difference does it make to you? It's not like that changes what you should do, which is play better.


I care because its frustrating to be on a team with a Cait who doesn't know what E does. I know all my weaknesses but I do not lack the basic fundamentals. Dodging skill shots... is a very basic skill and I see so many people who get nailed by EVERY single skill shot.

I just want to consistantly be on teams with the same basic skill as me, even if my skill level is sub-par. Don't chase kills, go for objectives, don't feed, avoid jungle ganks, understand Inhib > Baron, dodge skill shots, how to bully, how to get CS when your getting bullied.... I want my teamates to know that.
I hate the fact that the game is a fucking roll of the dice on what skill level your team is. Will you get the 'rapidly moving on to gold 1' guy or the 'Whats a skill shot?' guy?

I don't mind the 'having a bad game guy'. The guy who is 0-4 in lane but still know to go fucking help with the dragon... that I can handle. I don't want the 'I'm going to ignore the AD carry and go after the full TANK chogoth because he is at 20% health -- no matter how much he kites me'.

Edit: To be more consise --- LoL is the most frustrating multiplayer game in history.
I played DoTa (the real dota not the new stand alone) from the beginning all the way into All-Stars and it was never as frustrating as LoL even through there was no matchmaker (there was an add on that kind of helped with it though) -- -people would just say "im a noob" and then you could help them. In LoL you get total idiots who go 0-10 and blame their team and they think they are just as good because they are in the same league. <--- the portion I call BS on in Silver/Bronze league.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:14 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:Every duo partner I accepted, was only because they stomped in game. Then every time we duo'ed we stomped the enemy team. I had 80% win rates with all my old duo partners. (Old meaning beginning of this season).
They didn't just get better, they were really good and in all our games we dominated.

So being that you believe I am horrible and I am in silver because of my horrible play, that would mean that my duo partners carried me (if your right) --- meaning that they were WAY better than their placements in my league would suggest... thus proving my point.


So, why didn't you just duo queue your way out of silver? It's not like it would take long if you're really winning that many games.

Are you going to tell me you think you're in silver for a reason other than the quality of your play?

A lot of gold and plat players were placed in bronze and silver at the beginning of this season. Those guys having just been moving through silver on their way back up versus the old silvers and bronzes who are grinding out games trying to get better --- In silver league you play against platinum players.


Unlikely. A plat player in silver would be like you facing people in low bronze, but probably a bit worse because increases in skill across rankings aren't linear. That wouldn't take months to even out. And anyway, it would just mean you win about 50% of your games against players who are sometimes plat-level. It's not like you can somehow be disadvantaged.

I just want to consistantly be on teams with the same basic skill as me, even if my skill level is sub-par.


Quit playing solo queue. What you want does not happen.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby 3fj » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:29 am UTC

I finally hit silver. Had three games in a row where I ruined with Vel'Koz, and it felt so fucking good.

Seriously, I felt more accomplished today than when I earned my degree.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:38 am UTC

...whoa. After two years of playing this game I have not done ranked, but it doesn't seem worth it to start even now.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:37 am UTC

Really, you're always going to get bad players in your team, regardless of what rating it is. Sometimes those "bad" players are just having a bad day, or are on tilt, but either way you'll need to carry them because sometimes you'll be the "bad" player.
Don't assume rating changes anything, the same thing happens in all ratings (Slightly more bizarre when you realise people do bronze stuff in diamond all the time). The difference is that good players carry poor ones, great players carry entire teams of poor ones.

Also, people assume getting scores like 0/6 is their fault, but really it's a team game and sometimes all it takes is a little help for that person to be 6/0 in the same game. If it's a snowball vs snowball lane, and the jungler ganks it, 1 person will be down a kill then the other will all-in every time he gets back to lane. Either way, 1 person will get crushed. If you were to roam there and gank, that could not just give your team 1 kill, but another 5 because he's now got the advantage. All of a sudden that player isn't so "bad" anymore, so maybe that's all it needs.
Similarly, if their jungler camps top, and counter ganking would be useless, organizing a dragon kill is worth more for the team.

Either way, all of that is near unimportant. The important thing is to think about what YOU, and YOU ALONE, could do to increase your chances of winning. Sometimes that's outplaying people, sometimes it's warning teammates, sometimes it's warding for your team (Rather than "Oh me yarm why u no ward"), sometimes it's just letting them be stupid and die alone, sometimes it's split pushing, sometimes it's objectives.
However, if you're focusing on what other people do, you won't be asking the most important question of all when losing... "What could have I done better to win?"
Sometimes, there isn't anything you could do, but thats far less often than people think.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Adacore » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:11 pm UTC

That mindset is also an extremely useful one to take if you ever get into a situation where you're playing with a premade team. If someone's blaming other people and bitching over voice comms, it will destroy your team's communications and morale far more than if that person is spamming instults in chat.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:54 pm UTC

UGH.

So need advice. Been on several teams with horrific bottoms (0-15 before 20 mins).
During one of those games I was ziggs mid and was 2-0-1 versus an akali.
So I buy wards for bottom, I go bottom 9 times to help them. It results in few kills, and few assists, but enemy is so fed, they still get kills on my bottom even with me there.
Meantime -- I'm losing CS, Akali is pushing my lane hard and gets my tower --- Akali catches up to me even though I was making her life hell before I tried to salvage out bottom --

So basically it feels like a lose lose. If I got help bottom, my enemy mid snowballs and free farms.
If I don't got bottom, they enemy ADC is hyper fed and becomes unstoppable.

So... I switched to bottom lane and DOMINATED once as leona with a decent ADC.
Then my next game I was leona again with an ADC that just stood there and let the enemy kill him 3 times. I asked "try and dodge those Thresh hooks" and he replied "STFU I'm high as F___ and I hope you die of cancer".

By the end of the game he had 15 deaths, suicided to enemy towers several times, told everyone on my team to kill ourselves and wished our whole families would get cancer and die.

Welcome to Silver league.

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2nd Question: How often to Platinum + players intentionally feed?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:12 pm UTC

Firstly, the biggest reason for "feeding" is not knowing how to play when behind. It's generally only closer to diamond where people properly adjust play style to account for being behind (i.e. Where it starts to become more often than not). So it's not really intentional for the most part, it's just that they don't know how to NOT feed while still being relevant.

For the Ziggs game:
It depends really. Sometimes it's better to just pressure your lane as hard as possible or take objectives elsewhere. If bot lane is failing, they can still sit there and farm, but getting them a kill probably won't make them strong enough to actually win an all-in. This is pretty crucial as going from far behind to somewhat behind is basically no different; Going from a little behind to a little ahead is huge
so often times it's better to get another lane ahead or take objectives fast elsewhere forcing them to react.
Really you don't want to be roaming so much with ziggs that you lose a tower, it would be better to forcefully take their mid tower. E.g. if you can lower akalis HP enough, you + jungler can easily siege their mid tower.

If your top laner is strong enough, you can force down the tower in his lane too, that's gold and more opportunities for jungler to gank.
Failing those, you have to just farm as much as you possibly can to the point where you dominate in fights. Ziggs is the single best champ in the game at forcing a late game due to his anti-siege potential and wave clear. Potentially you could force the game to go on long enough that the overall difference is reduced and you can effectively kill them on their own.

In general reactive play is weaker than proactive. If you force them to react to you, you're most likely in a winning situation. That doesn't always have to be helping failing lanes. In fact, I tend to only help failing lanes over winning ones if it's crucial they don't snowball or my gank will at least balance it out again.

Ziggs isn't really a hyper carry either, he's solid and wins a lot, but can't carry teams that are failing really hard on his own. Someone like Kat mid could easily make up for a feeding bot lane, winning >90% of games in silver. So there's always the possibility of better champion picks to solo carry, but that's largely dependant on actual skill with them. If you're already super good with a champion, you would win far more than enough to gain rating quickly.

Although I'd have to really watch the game to say what was best to do.

In the leona game:
Personally I don't like Leona, especially in low ratings. She's one of the strongest supports still, but is a teamwork champ. You don't have the luxury of assuming people are good enough to capitalize on that. Leona will win quite a lot of the time because she's so strong BUT (big but) that doesn't mean she can do it alone, she still needs a moderately competent ADC, whereas Karma can do it on her own.
Recently, I've been favouring Karma because, not only can you beat all other support picks, but you can be so proactive on your own that you can easily force summoners or kills. If you get fed, late game you can take >70% of ADCs hp off in 1 combo. You're such a strong force in lane that it almost doesn't matter if the adc is bad. For comparison, ignoring mid/top, I'd personally expect to "win" bot lane about 80-90% of the time with Karma in silver with a random selection of people playing adc/support, whereas with Leona, about 65-75%. Outside of laning phase, it's far more dependant on exact circumstances, but she's still very strong.

Zyra support works in the same way, but requires a lot more skill/practice and far less forgiving. Note: Zyra has practically the same win rate as Leona in silver, but considering how much harder she is to play, that's rather impressive; also hence why you'd crush hard if you're actually really good with her. I regularly out damage everyone in the game as zyra support.
Thresh ofc is still the best over if you're good with him, but most aren't.
Morg works to make up for lesser skilled adcs, but it's harder to solo dominate bot lane.

Basically, if you took a high diamond support main, stuck them in 100 random silver games, the ones that will win the most will be ones that play very aggressive champs that make it easy for your ADC to get ahead and is very potent on their own. This also includes non-standard ones, e.g. teleport+ignite LB can wreck an entire team even as support (Snowball by teleporting around picking people off); Cassio barely needs anything to crush by mid game, etc.

Saying all that, what works for me may not work for you. Different strengths/weaknesses.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:07 am UTC

elminster wrote:Thresh ofc is still the best over if you're good with him, but most aren't..


Hold on a sec there. Thresh's win rate is about the same in diamond as in bronze. Rather than being a matter of mechanics, it's about having people you can reliably coordinate with. Same with Lee Sin and Elise, who are both fine champions that perform awfully in solo queue. People's ability to aim skillshots evidently increases at the exact same rate as their ability to dodge them.

If you have a theory about a champion being better for higher or lower mmr games, it's probably wrong. Very very few champions have significant performance differences across leagues.

If you can guarantee you'll win your lane hard, then pick the most snowbally champ you can handle. If you want "YOLO TO THE ULTIMATE MAX," buy meijai's and occult on Akali. Otherwise, just pick whatever has the best average-case performance for you.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:43 am UTC

4.6 about to be released. Thank god for Feral Flare nerf, seen way too many pentas from Yi already.

Thresh has one of the highest skill caps and is the most flexible with regards to what team comps he can fit into. Hence there's more thresh mains in challenger than probably any other champ, regardless of role (I did a quick check a little while back).
If you have a theory about a champion being better for higher or lower mmr games, it's probably wrong. Very very few champions have significant performance differences across leagues.
I mostly base it on what I've seen. If you exclude bronze and challenger, most champs tend to win roughly the same amount, but people with the highest win rates don't hang around in lower leagues, so the win rates aren't as affected. As mentioned, playing only kat mid, a really good player could win over 90% of their games through silver, which means they'll be out of there quickly.
Also there's the inverse relationship between amount a champion is played and win rate. High skill cap champs that get played a lot because people think it's easy end up with low win rate. E.g. leblanc.

The absolute best thing you can do to increase your chances of winning is duoing with the right people. If they've played 500 ranked games, they're probably not going to go up fast as all if you duo, but some people just need a little guidance or someone they can cooperate with to win.

Really the best thing to do in general is look at is the win rate of champs in your division: Here on lolking. (Note: Currently skewed towards every feral flare champ)
The problem is that it doesn't take into account:
-players strengths and weaknesses. E.g. Draven may have a high win rate, but won't work if you have poor mechanics.
-what they like to play
-experience or skill with particular champions.
-what will potentially be useful at higher ratings
-what quick tactics they can learn to win games easily. (i.e. Cheese tactics)
-natural affinity to a champ.

But honestly, everything except for the particular champion actually matters a whole lot more. If you know what to do, you'll still win a lot almost regardless of champion played.

Also, play Kayle, as I mentioned at the very start of the season, Kayle is strong and only relatively gotten stronger despite Q nerf and LB nerf. Kayle is still the highest win rate on gold to challenger, ~5th highest on silver. Even managed to get Kayle ADC to work on my Kayle only account (Duoing with a person who makes it harder than a random).
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Re: League of Legends

Postby yurell » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:04 am UTC

elminster wrote:4.6 about to be released. Thank god for Feral Flare nerf, seen way too many pentas from Yi already.


I saw it more as 'great, now I need to wait even longer for my jungler to gank for me'. Since FF has come out, most jungler's I've played with (low-silver) have basically lived in the jungle without really ganking.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:17 am UTC

People also seem to build feral flare on everyone, even characters for whom it is obviously a bad idea.

elminster wrote:High skill cap champs that get played a lot because people think it's easy end up with low win rate. E.g. leblanc.


Which is a total bullshit example, since she wins more games in bronze than diamond. She also gets slightly more popular as you go up in leagues.

Also, Lee Sin seems popular for other reasons, Thresh is extremely popular and has a respectable win rate, and Elise is very unpopular and does very poorly. I don't think your model holds up.

I mostly base it on what I've seen. If you exclude bronze and challenger, most champs tend to win roughly the same amount, but people with the highest win rates don't hang around in lower leagues, so the win rates aren't as affected.

Uh, yeah, that means win rates will be reflective of players typical to that league.

As mentioned, playing only kat mid, a really good player could win over 90% of their games through silver, which means they'll be out of there quickly.

Well yeah, obviously if you're straight up smurfing then the statistics are applied differently, but that has no bearing on anyone for whom matchmaking is correctly functioning.

If you can't reliably guarantee that you'll be significantly better than everyone else in your game, then trying to "carry" is just going to cost you games you would have won with teamwork. That doesn't necessarily mean you should let win rates dictate who you pick, but unless you see evidence to the contrary, you have no reason to expect to outperform them.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:12 pm UTC

Kag wrote:People also seem to build feral flare on everyone, even characters for whom it is obviously a bad idea.


I assume its because your clear times go WAY up. I threw in on volibear jungle a few times, and it had a noticeable difference in CS and amount of time farming. It allowed me to gank even more than I already do and still get some respectable gold. It did force me to get Mercs instead of Ninja Tab but I didn't let it dictate that I had to farm stacks the whole time and did stick to my strat of feeding kills to my team.

I'm glad the Flare is getting downgraded though, because Yi, Jax, Xin, and WW were feeling OP.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Kag » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:31 pm UTC

Mostly I was thinking of extra heavy ganking junglers like Jarvan or Kha'zix. Sure, you clear faster, but it delays your biggest power spike until after the window where you can have the biggest impact, and you really don't want to be spending as much time farming as a Shyvana or something, so you don't get the transformation until much later. On its own, Wriggle's Lantern is very bad.

I would think it's good on Volibear, for pretty much the reasons you listed. He autoattacks quickly already, so the benefit of the procs for clear speed is really significant, and you get to farm reasonably fast and still gank.

I played a game yesterday as Warwick. I died twice early. Then I got my ult and threw the entire enemy team into a dumpster. He still seems pretty good.

I'm really excited for Braum.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:36 pm UTC

I'd highly recommend people to watch this guys tutorials to learn the finer elements of laning, he's a diamond 1 korean player. https://www.youtube.com/user/lastshadow9.
All the videos labeled "[Coaching]", the last 5 at the moment are about LoL.

The mindset shows not just diamond level insight, but high diamond 1 level insight. You don't actually have to be remotely as good as he explains what to do to be diamond (Note: Don't confuse diamond with diamond 1, it's practically a different league), but it's he gives an absolutely comprehensive guide on the thought processes going on. I really can't emphasize enough how much he hits the nail on the head.

They are all over an hour long, but if you are serious about gaining rating, time spent watching those is FAR better than what you'll learn in any ranked games you'll play in that time. He doesn't cover absolutely everything, but if you're silver or above, you probably already know the rest (e.g. he doesn't speak about perfecting CSing except for tactical side, i.e. when and what CS you should hit/kill/avoid for a strategic advantage)
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:53 pm UTC

Ok, I have to completely change my approach.
I keep having games where I personally do well, but am incapable of carrying my team.
I had a dominating/crushing performance as Garen that ended in a loss, mostly team comp problems.

I tried Kayle top -- jax CRUSHED me. He would W-Q jump me (half my health) then E so if I tried to attack him I was just setting myself up for the stun.

(Also in last 10 games, had 4 leavers/DC'ers on my team)

Played ADC with NO Support (he dc'ed 5 times) and still out CS'ed my opponent early game and got 1 kill. When my support did show up he would usally lag out and feed them a kill --- sigh.

Master Yi is still a nightmare with the feral flare -- but he is usually perm banned now.

Got demoted after a string of 3 AFK's in a row --- hopefully the law of averages will turn around.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:43 pm UTC

elminster wrote:I'd highly recommend people to watch this guys tutorials to learn the finer elements of laning, he's a diamond 1 korean player. https://www.youtube.com/user/lastshadow9.
All the videos labeled "[Coaching]", the last 5 at the moment are about LoL.

The mindset shows not just diamond level insight, but high diamond 1 level insight. You don't actually have to be remotely as good as he explains what to do to be diamond (Note: Don't confuse diamond with diamond 1, it's practically a different league), but it's he gives an absolutely comprehensive guide on the thought processes going on. I really can't emphasize enough how much he hits the nail on the head.

They are all over an hour long, but if you are serious about gaining rating, time spent watching those is FAR better than what you'll learn in any ranked games you'll play in that time. He doesn't cover absolutely everything, but if you're silver or above, you probably already know the rest (e.g. he doesn't speak about perfecting CSing except for tactical side, i.e. when and what CS you should hit/kill/avoid for a strategic advantage)
These are pretty good
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Re: League of Legends

Postby elminster » Sun May 04, 2014 5:14 am UTC

With the 4.6 changes, I've started to see Kassadin's snowballing hard and winning games again. A lot of pro players seem to be stomping with him as well: See here
It kind of doesn't surprise me when you look at the ratios and damages on his abilities now.

Edit: Seem to be stomping in mid at the moment ~80-90% win rate when I go mid. Played a ranked game vs LemonNation and Sneaky on their euw smurfs today(Can see a list of most All-star smurfs accounts), they wrecked our bot lane. Sneaky's mechanics too good.

Edit2: Predictably, Kass Q shield going to get a hard nerf in 4.7.
Increased range on Kha insolation distance, which is pretty good considering some of the absurd circumstances you can get it to proc in.
Trinkets start at 30sec rather than 2min, which opens a load more options again.
-30dmg/hit fortification on all towers scaling over 420sec instead of -20 on top/mid over 480s. That's a pretty significant nerf to rapid tower push strats, which I think needed to be done.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Biliboy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:08 am UTC

Any favorite champions for the newest one for all/mirror mode? I liked Lee Sin, monks flying everywhere. Garen was 'beyblade olympics', and people were singing 'Its raining men" with pantheon.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby yurell » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:18 am UTC

I loved all Lux; it was like fighting in a sci-fi battlefield. So ludicrous and so fun.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby philsov » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:48 pm UTC

Biliboy wrote:Any favorite champions for the newest one for all/mirror mode? I liked Lee Sin, monks flying everywhere. Garen was 'beyblade olympics', and people were singing 'Its raining men" with pantheon.


Urgot.

A corrosive bomb blast enables ALL Urgots to home into that target
Lots of ult swapping madness
Not a lot of people have experience with him and he's relatively easy to pick up

Runner up -- Ez. It's... as close to dragon ball z as League is gonna get. Very frantic and mechanically challenging.

Zid, Nidalee, and Lux were novel once but doing them subsequent times was just miserable.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:43 pm UTC

Ziggs was the best Mirror Mode experience for me. Every other champ left me wishing it was Ziggs.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby faranim » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:55 pm UTC

In general, I found the AP champs to be boring. It took forever to knock down turrets and actually end the game, even if the teamfights were sometimes epic.
Tanky champions (Alistar, Shyvana, Singed, etc) were also pretty boring.

Ranged AD was the most challenging for me, but either way the game was usually over quickly so I didn't mind playing AD champs.
Didn't get to play much with bruiser types (Garen, Tryndamere, Renekton, etc).


I think the most fun was champs that have multiple diverse builds. Ezrael was good. I would think Sona would be similar in terms of build diversity.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:32 am UTC

URF was much more fun than Mirror Mode. Even regular ARAM is more fun.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Biliboy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:26 pm UTC

So, Nidalee... spears got nerfed hard, but her 1v1/cougar got buffed too, so she's now essentially Elise with different range poke and more move speed.

Been playing her a lot on TT, still haven't decided on a good build, though sheen is always in there in some fashion (gauntlet, lich bane, haven't tried triforce yet)

I'm thinking that since trap is %hp now, and takedown also scales on health and is magic damage, that like elise, mpen should be in the build too.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:40 am UTC

I'm just glad they finally nerfed her.
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