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Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:20 am UTC
by eeris
Windowlicker wrote:Yeah.. to be honest, I find it easier to just be running around all the time anyway. It feels more productive.

Also I finally (finally) hit level 30. Ranked.. you can stay where you are now, I am not going there.


But... ranked games are so much easier! People try hard to win and there are very few trolls!

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:16 am UTC
by Kag
Windowlicker wrote:And I think auto-attacking the closest thing is.. another sign that the designers of LoL want you to be aggressive always, like they keep saying themselves.


So then why last hits?

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:40 am UTC
by Bakemaster
I suppose since the xkcd in-game chat is such a barren wasteland I might mention that a subreddit has shown up for teaching and learning LoL in recent weeks and now also an IRC channel on quakenet that actually sees some activity plus an in-game chat with at least always idlers and often people who will duo queue or practice with you in customs.
http://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool
quakenet #summonerschool
in-game: you have three guesses

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:31 am UTC
by rigwarl
Kag wrote:
Windowlicker wrote:And I think auto-attacking the closest thing is.. another sign that the designers of LoL want you to be aggressive always, like they keep saying themselves.


So then why last hits?


I'm not really sure what you're asking here?

If you're asking why do last hits give gold, it's to reward you for dominating the lane.

If you're asking "why do only last hits give gold" instead of "getting gold every time you attack", it's been addressed extensively already, but it would favor high sustained dps champions.

If you're asking why standing still without pressing anything doesn't automatically last hit, it seems obvious to me that it should reward the player in such a video game; it would be the same reason that Sivir's spellshield doesn't automatically activate vs a lethal spell, etc.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:56 am UTC
by Kag
rigwarl wrote:it seems obvious to me that it should reward the player in such a video game


That kinda justifies any arbitrary mechanic.

I don't think last hitting should be removed from the game. I just really wish the game's default wasn't actively sabotaging me while I try to do it. Also, it is kinda tedious, so whoever designs our next gen Mobas should probably at least think about doing something with it.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:49 pm UTC
by rigwarl
Well, like I mentioned above DotA2 has the feature to turn it off (but no one uses it), so I guess they are thinking about it.

However, I only see 2 alternatives to it "actively sabotaging you". 1) If you turn it off, you don't get last hits unless you try either, so the only other possibility left is 2) it automatically last hitting for you if you press nothing, which to me has a bunch of reasons it seems unfair (favors AD champions, MASSIVELY favors ranged- does melee only automatically kill everything in range of it?, etc.)- but the main issue being it would promote extreme passivity. Maybe there are other better ways to keep last hitting in the game and have a better idle champion system but I can't think of any??

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:49 pm UTC
by Kag
rigwarl wrote:If you turn it off, you don't get last hits unless you try either


Yeah, I'm totally cool with that. I'm saying that it makes zero design sense for autoattacking to be the default if last hits are going to be a thing.

rigwarl wrote:it automatically last hitting for you if you press nothing, which to me has a bunch of reasons it seems unfair (favors AD champions, MASSIVELY favors ranged- does melee only automatically kill everything in range of it?, etc.)- but the main issue being it would promote extreme passivity.


This would be a stupid thing to do, but no it doesn't really favor anyone because it would just be exactly what you do now, but automatic. Also yes probably impossible to really implement.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:02 am UTC
by rigwarl
Kag wrote:This would be a stupid thing to do, but no it doesn't really favor anyone because it would just be exactly what you do now, but automatic. Also yes probably impossible to really implement.


I don't really get what you mean it's exactly the same as what you do now? Even like the TSM players consistently miss 10+ CS per game (either in tournament or in casual solo queue games), but yea I guess it wouldn't affect you if you were perfect at CS'ing- however it would affect 99.9% of the playerbase.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:11 am UTC
by Intrigued
And of course the enormous farm increase would benefit anyone who needs farm.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:20 am UTC
by Windowlicker
I think I've only had one game that's been boring to farm.. solo top Irelia against Gragas. He was just pushing the entire time, so I could just last hit at tower with no fear of getting ganked. It was 20 minutes before either of us went back... I got to 180 CS, he got about 140. But that was good enough 'cause I think I got boots and most of a trinity straight up.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:48 pm UTC
by Goldstein
I'm breaking from the current discussion here, but I have to ask about this. As I've mentioned, I main Singed as solo top and I'm really happy with my win ratio with him. I start with boots and three pots and take Fling at level 1, and the early game before my first recall can sometimes be shaky. I usually manage to farm well and he becomes a huge tank who, coupled with his ultimate, can't die unless I'm being stupid (which I often am!).

Earlier today, I laned against Nunu. From the outset, I didn't think much to him - he ran into lane and hit the first minion three times, then failed to get the last hit on it. He was generally aggressive like this and his farming left something to be desired, but he zoned me completely. He started with a Doran's Ring. That Ice Blast of his did about 20% of my health with each hit and he seemed able to use it almost endlessly - he didn't even need to use it that often because it tore huge chunks out of me and kept me well out of range of the minions. On top of that, it packs a heavy slow that meant I couldn't effectively last hit in melee even if I chose to just take huge (huge) damage for a bit. He was so aggressive that I got a few successful flings into my own tower, but he's a big guy with a strong self-heal and he was able to shrug it off. Meanwhile, I knew I couldn't get in near the minions because I ran out of health potions early on and was forced to hide behind the tower. Ultimately, I went back two or three times before I'd have liked to, and I remember seeing him on 30 creep kills while I was on 10. It was just horrible. As you'd expect, I was shunned by team for being a massive noob but I thought I'd honestly done well just to avoid dying in this match-up.

I don't think there was anything I could have changed in how I played to avoid this, and I've never known the laning phase to feel so one-sided. So I'm left thinking that I could have built better. I could have started with either a Null-Magic mantle and one pot, or just 13 pots, but the MR seems pretty minor and 13 pots is a bit experimental. I don't think either red or blue crystal would provide more than a brief benefit here. Is there anything obvious I'm missing about this? I'd love to think I could have shut him down by not letting him get in his auto-attacks and so preventing his passive, but from the look of his mana bar I'm not certain he needed it for quite some time. This wasn't just me making some critical positioning errors in the laning phase - I really think this will happen any time I have to play against Nunu.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:21 pm UTC
by eeris
Well I never play Singed or Nunu but...

It seems like he's just a pretty good counter to Singed in the solo lane, and the way to deal with this is really just to get your jungler to gank early and often or just try to farm minions just outside of your turret range. If you can't count on ganks from your jungler then it might be better to get a health regen item at the start. It's also worth remembering Nunu's passive which allows him to cast spells for free, if you can get an early advantage and then stop him from auto attacking the minions he won't be able to keep up his harras and heal without running out of mana.

But yeah, I don't play either of them.

EDIT: The way to win would be to play for the late game when Nunu falls off hard which would mean just doing your best to farm safe. I'd much rather fight against a top lane Nunu with high CS than an Irelia/Shyvana/Udyr/gp etc..

Also; sorry if you've been trying to communicate with me on the in-game chat and I've not been responding. It never gives any notifications of new messages and I only check it when I know someone is online that may be using it. And seeing as you aren't on my friends list... yeah.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:55 pm UTC
by rigwarl
Singed is more defensive early than aggressive so I would highly favor regrowth pendant over boots in nearly any matchup. Also, while I suggest not taking a skill unless you need to use it, I think it should be Poision Trail first about 95% of the time. A mere 2 hits per each time you would have Flung them at level 1 will be more damage (but more importantly, it is massively, massively more mana efficient).

You are correct that Nunu is a better early game character no matter what you do, so just try to last hit everything, go back immediately if you are no longer able to do so and buy as much regen/pots as you can (If you're doing well, Catalyst first, otherwise perhaps a 2nd regrowth pendant). After 6 you can start Ult'ing on cooldown for the sustain. The important thing to realize here is he has guaranteed damage on you but it is limited by snowball's cooldown. Given equal skill players he will have more farm than you, but he's also Nunu, who has only 1 single target nuke besides his ult which you can interrupt, a move that literally does nothing in fights, and a single non-item dependent move so it's OK if that happens.

Oh- if you know 100% you're going to be laning against Nunu Null-Magic Mantle is totally fine (it's frequently used in 1v1's), alternatively you can get it on your first trip back too since you'll want to build it into Merc Treads anyway. As for the Pendant don't be afraid to not build it into anything and sell it once you run out of space, but Philo Stone or FoN is fine too.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:51 am UTC
by omgryebread
I'm only really capable of playing support. This is kind of depressing. I like playing support, I do it in most games, but still :(.

As a question, where should I be casting clairvoyance in the beginning? I do it once on their fountain at around 10 seconds, but then I don't know whether to do it in the bush by the river near our blue, or in the bush by the enemy's blue.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:06 am UTC
by skeptical scientist
omgryebread wrote:I'm only really capable of playing support. This is kind of depressing. I like playing support, I do it in most games, but still :(.

As a question, where should I be casting clairvoyance in the beginning? I do it once on their fountain at around 10 seconds, but then I don't know whether to do it in the bush by the river near our blue, or in the bush by the enemy's blue.

It probably depends on who is jungling for your team, who is jungling for the other team, and whether your team is trying to gank or worried about a gank. I usually guess where the other team's jungler is going to be and CV there, but I'm not sure if that's the best strategy.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:12 am UTC
by Mavketl
I cv at the start, and then where their jungler 'should' be. If they're not where they should be, my team should be on red alert for jungle invasions. After that, I mostly use it to keep track of their jungler during early laning and for alllll kinds of things late game.

I play a lot of support as well, and I find that the 'closest' role in many ways is to be a jungler. You ideally have a similar map awareness & awareness of buff timers, you'll ward a bit and 'support' lanes that need it. Of course there are differences as well (you have more gold, you get some kills, do more damage, et cetera), and it also really depends on which champion you play. I really like someone like Rammus, because he's not a "I KILL YOU ALL 1V5 WITH MY MAD DAMAGES" kind of ganker, but more a "I catch you and disable you like a boss so my team can own you and get ahead in their lanes". So if you're looking to learn another role after support... jungler might be a good one to try!

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:14 am UTC
by elminster
Just started playing ranked again after several losses from doing a premade with a super low elo guy.
I'm in elo hell at the moment. I forget how bad it is after playing with top level pros in normal daily. Although usually I play supports.
Really... it's easy to win... the hard part is being able to get a solo lane and hoping teammates don't feed too hard. I find it laughably funny that it turns out true in every game I've not played a solo.

I might just start just saying "I'm going mid, doesn't matter if anyone else is", just so I can at least win some games. Problem is, I've found that almost everyone who does that sucks (Although In my case I'm more like ~1600-1700 elo on average really, but playing with ~1000-1100 elo in ranked).

Edit: Ah that's better (7/1/10, 11/1/8, 4/1/13, 4/1/19) gone from ~1100 to 1337 (Wooooooot 1337) after I managed carry.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:13 pm UTC
by Windowlicker
I am quite proud of this as a first ever Maokai game (especially against 500+ win opponents...):
Spoiler:
maokai.png


Of course, their Xin was an idiot, but that's beside the point.

Edit: Who's strong solo top right now? Irelia, GP.. Wukong, Rumble.. struggling to think of who else to play. Shyvana? She's lightning quick in the jungle, but her ganks aren't amazing.. what does she do in lane?

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:06 pm UTC
by Lostdreams
Don't forget AP teemo.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:42 pm UTC
by Drumheller769
Ever had a losing streak and you know you need to take a break after 2 or 3 games? Yea, I did that this weekend, losing ranked games in sets of 2...I ended up losing 100 elo over 3 days with like 8 straight loses before I got a win. Three of the loses were majorly my fault, aweful games..but then the others I actually played well but my team didnt. I was at 1390 now im at 1287 :(

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:47 pm UTC
by eeris
Windowlicker wrote:I am quite proud of this as a first ever Maokai game (especially against 500+ win opponents...):
Spoiler:
maokai.png


Of course, their Xin was an idiot, but that's beside the point.

Edit: Who's strong solo top right now? Irelia, GP.. Wukong, Rumble.. struggling to think of who else to play. Shyvana? She's lightning quick in the jungle, but her ganks aren't amazing.. what does she do in lane?


Farm and counter jungle till she gets so fed that it doesn't matter that she has no CC besides her ulti.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:45 pm UTC
by Lostdreams
Timers, wards, and counter-jungling win games.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:34 pm UTC
by Drumheller769
I have lost about 11/12 of my last games over this week...so sad. Anyone want to play this weekend? NA, Drumheller769

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:59 pm UTC
by eeris
I have just lost my last 6 games (non-ranked) with absolutely stellar scores and completely dominating my lane. I just... I can't even begin to describe the feeling of despair that is overwhelming me right now. Surely the chances of me not getting a team that can hold it's own 6 times in a row should be pretty low but yet here I am. My only option is to just not play unranked games at level 30 ever again. I just... don't even..

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:15 pm UTC
by rigwarl
Drumheller, as I have now finished FFXIII-2 I will probably be down for some games this weekend (and anyone else). To counteract all the bad news in this thread, I 1v1'd a stranger on the internet for $10 PayPal and won yesterday! (this obviously means I'm a pro gamer now)

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:34 pm UTC
by eeris
I mean obviously the good news is I'm kicking ass but it would be nice to win for a change...

I don't play on my NA account anymore but if people want to organise some time for a game on their then I'd happily join in if I'm free.

10$, that's like 2/3 pints? Woohoo! Beer money! I think I won some chewing gum and free server hosting for a few months from my CoD2 times... Chewing gum is practically money right?

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:10 am UTC
by skeptical scientist
eeris wrote:I have just lost my last 6 games (non-ranked) with absolutely stellar scores and completely dominating my lane. I just... I can't even begin to describe the feeling of despair that is overwhelming me right now. Surely the chances of me not getting a team that can hold it's own 6 times in a row should be pretty low but yet here I am.

Eh. If it's a 1-in-3 chance of getting a matchup which can't win even with you dominating, that would be a 1-in-700 chance of it happening 6 times in a row. So bad luck - but with probably over 1,000 games played, it's not that unlikely that it would happen at some point.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:12 am UTC
by omgryebread
Soraka's E won't restore mana to her with the next patch. No eternal sustain :( I'm sad now.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:15 am UTC
by eeris
Spell animations not showing because the caster was in fog (even when the projectile goes through areas with vision), bug or feature? I don't like it.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:14 pm UTC
by rigwarl
Bug, which spell did it happen for?

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:47 pm UTC
by Kolko
omgryebread wrote:Soraka's E won't restore mana to her with the next patch. No eternal sustain :( I'm sad now.

But they lowered the mana cost on Starcall, you can now spam it more! :roll:

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:58 pm UTC
by Robot10
Im a fairly new player and find the game extremely interesting. Ive been doing mostly intermediate bot matches to get used to new characters as I unlock them since every time I play normal games I get slaughtered. I have been working to get better at Nasus but hes so dependent on situational play and weak early game I think Im going to have to save him till Im far more experienced; hes still great in a team battle. In light of this Ive been focusing on Jax and Veigar with much better results in terms of murdering the other team and not dying prolifically. Any ideas on another champion which isnt too expensive IP wise that might be fun?

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:08 am UTC
by eeris
rigwarl wrote:Bug, which spell did it happen for?


Spells like dark binding, nidalees spear, luxs skill shots.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:12 pm UTC
by elminster
Number of games played is only really a very rough indicator. I know people with over 1k wins who play around 1000 elo (I.e. Shockingly bad). Highest I've seen so far was 2971 wins, who was around 1900 elo.
That spell bug is rather annoying; I've seen it quite a lot. Also, I'm glad they're nerfing sona... she was kinda stupid really. Unless you picked double stun/burst combo or soraka, sona would simply outclass the opposite teams support.

Decided to scrap my 1337 ranking for now. Up to 1521, should hit 1600 soon. Last few ranked scores: 10/2/10, 5/2/2, 4/3/8 (Lost due to a worse team on average), 6/0/5, 10/2/2, 6/1/12, 8/4/11.

Really it's more about the rest of the team at the moment. Playing in normal draft usually ends up with around 1700-1800 elo average teams, where everyone knows what to do. Recently played against a team comprising of average elo at almost exactly 2000, which had elo's of 2.2k (2465 top rating, so previous #1. currently in around #80 ranked solo), 2x 2k, 1.9k, 1.8k... we kinda got beat down because unconventional setup.

Windowlicker wrote:Edit: Who's strong solo top right now? Irelia, GP.. Wukong, Rumble.. struggling to think of who else to play. Shyvana? She's lightning quick in the jungle, but her ganks aren't amazing.. what does she do in lane?
Malphite, Garen, Galio, Jarven, Sion (depending who it is), Volibear, WW, Yorick can all still be played top. Riven is strong top, she can be beaten, but she has the highest total scaling of any character (AP or AD, yet everything scales of AD). Frankly, she needs nerfing. Her only real weakness is lack of laning sustain. I've played her about 12 times so far. At low elo, people don't have a good idea exactly how much damage she has... makes for easy kills (e.g. +0.5AD on passive, +1.8AD scaling on ult if they're at 25% hp).
Spoiler:
Image

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:00 pm UTC
by Windowlicker
I suppose I can play some of them.. I've not seen much variation in who I've been playing against recently. Not in top lane, at least.

Our uni has put together a team for the upcoming NUEL tournament, which will hopefully be good fun. Although saying that, it's this Saturday and we haven't played together as a team yet.. bah. Apparently it will be being streamed somewhere, if anyone's bored that night.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:46 pm UTC
by eeris
elminster wrote:
Windowlicker wrote:Edit: Who's strong solo top right now? Irelia, GP.. Wukong, Rumble.. struggling to think of who else to play. Shyvana? She's lightning quick in the jungle, but her ganks aren't amazing.. what does she do in lane?
Malphite, Garen, Galio, Jarven, Sion (depending who it is), Volibear, WW, Yorick can all still be played top. Riven is strong top, she can be beaten, but she has the highest total scaling of any character (AP or AD, yet everything scales of AD). Frankly, she needs nerfing. Her only real weakness is lack of laning sustain. I've played her about 12 times so far. At low elo, people don't have a good idea exactly how much damage she has... makes for easy kills (e.g. +0.5AD on passive, +1.8AD scaling on ult if they're at 25% hp).
Spoiler:
Image


Jarvan is a viable solo top again? I've not seen anyone playing him there and the last time I tried it I got stomped as his abilities were seriously outdated (massive mana requirements compared to other solo top champs).

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:37 pm UTC
by elminster
eeris wrote:
elminster wrote:
Windowlicker wrote:Edit: Who's strong solo top right now? Irelia, GP.. Wukong, Rumble.. struggling to think of who else to play. Shyvana? She's lightning quick in the jungle, but her ganks aren't amazing.. what does she do in lane?
Malphite, Garen, Galio, Jarven, Sion (depending who it is), Volibear, WW, Yorick can all still be played top. Riven is strong top, she can be beaten, but she has the highest total scaling of any character (AP or AD, yet everything scales of AD). Frankly, she needs nerfing. Her only real weakness is lack of laning sustain. I've played her about 12 times so far. At low elo, people don't have a good idea exactly how much damage she has... makes for easy kills (e.g. +0.5AD on passive, +1.8AD scaling on ult if they're at 25% hp).
Spoiler:
Image


Jarvan is a viable solo top again? I've not seen anyone playing him there and the last time I tried it I got stomped as his abilities were seriously outdated (massive mana requirements compared to other solo top champs).
Really it depends on team comp. He's not a good top, but can be played vs some. In fact, Jarven would be the least successful on that list.
Singed top can work (My fav to play top), the problem is that if he's countered early, he's useless for most of the rest. Before 6 he can't do a whole lot.
Even teemo could be played top vs some. His E adds a surprising amount of damage (combined with the fact that you can Q + auto attack fast).

A lot of this is dependant on rating and who you're playing against. Counter picking is often stronger than the difference in champs themselves.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:19 am UTC
by omgryebread
Robot10 wrote:Im a fairly new player and find the game extremely interesting. Ive been doing mostly intermediate bot matches to get used to new characters as I unlock them since every time I play normal games I get slaughtered. I have been working to get better at Nasus but hes so dependent on situational play and weak early game I think Im going to have to save him till Im far more experienced; hes still great in a team battle. In light of this Ive been focusing on Jax and Veigar with much better results in terms of murdering the other team and not dying prolifically. Any ideas on another champion which isnt too expensive IP wise that might be fun?
I'm pretty new too. Ashe is pretty solid to learn on. Her W is a skillshot, but it's a huge cone. Her Ult is a skillshot, but you should be saving it for teamfights when they're in a group and your team is about to engage, so it's not too hard to land. She's really cheap and fun too.

I think learning with support or AD is nice, because you get a partner in lane (sometimes that's really bad, if they're hyper aggressive or they are support that takes minion kills, or an ad that doesn't last hit.) On the flip side, you're in the most important lane, and a lot of junglers don't like ganking bot, at least in normals.



So is it just me or are duo queues often significantly worse than just people solo queueing? I'm summoner level 24, and whenever I get a duo queue, they insist on laning together and do things like Rammus/Poppy.

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:09 pm UTC
by Drumheller769
One of the advantages to some duo queues, is if they have good coordination and know what to expect from each other they can own a lane. An irl buddy and I fairly often duo as Blitzcrank and Lux and we dominate most bot lane comps. Although it does help to pick combos that have good synergy.

So earlier this week I posted about my aweful ~10 game losing streak...I have now carried myself as Brand with 6 straight wins, 5 more to go to get back to where I was! :D

Re: League of Legends

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:08 pm UTC
by ProZac
When I was leveling with friends, I always wanted a duo lane with them. It was a matter of "You want to play with someone you know." Just pick 2 champs you want to play and go play them. These days we won't do that, as we know we need a plan going in. I still don't like doing bot lane unless I know the person I'm laning with. You really have to know what to expect from each other to work well.

omgryebread wrote:Soraka's E won't restore mana to her with the next patch. No eternal sustain :( I'm sad now.
But it restores more mana to other people! I'm actually pleased with this change. I've been playing with a friend doing poke mage (Ziggs or Xerath for example) and Soraka bot. Grab a Mana Manipulator and level E up and you have a mage with infinite mana/harass.