xkcd

by **BlackSails** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:32 am UTC

The issue with flash is that many champions without some sort of movement skill are simply unplayable without it

Edit: Unrelated, but jayce is OP as hell. I shut him down completely during laning (8 cs vs 45 at one point), and he still started wrecking everyone.

by **eeris** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:55 am UTC

Possibly because some eedjit decided he needed an ability which does 20% of a chmpions max hp as damage.

by **BlackSails** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:31 pm UTC

Its not just that - its his incredible damage output, harass ability, kiting ability, ability to speed up his ENTIRE TEAM BY 50% (suck that janna), his natural tank (25% damage reduction from his ult, wtf), and ability to move you. Its like if yi could move around with meditate active, it couldnt be canceled and highlander applied to all teammates near you.

by **Lostdreams** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:33 pm UTC

Windowlicker wrote:
Weeks wrote:About AD champs...what about Ezreal? Once Pulsefire was released everyone and their mother played him.

This is annoying too. I tend to just pick Graves and bully him out of lane. The main thing is most people can't play him for shit.

I used to be worried about Ez before that skin came out since I've seen a few good Ez players and he is a beast if played right. Post skin release I haven't seen a single one.

by **ProZac** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:30 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:Its not just that - its his incredible damage output, harass ability, kiting ability, ability to speed up his ENTIRE TEAM BY 50% (suck that janna), his natural tank (25% damage reduction from his ult, wtf), and ability to move you. Its like if yi could move around with meditate active, it couldnt be canceled and highlander applied to all teammates near you.

I don't get the meditate... Jayce has no sustain? And he only benefits from increased MR/Armor when in hammer form, and to be fully effective, you have to bounce between the two. I don't find him to be nearly as tanky some other high dps champs... he just brings a load of utility with it. I do expect some form of a nerf incoming, though not huge. His ranged form actually seems pretty weak, so maybe a slight buff to it with larger nerfs to hammer.

by **Weeks** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:40 pm UTC

I'd buy Diana if I had the IP. Those jokes!

Edit: Oh and, I never knew Lulu was a good AD carry. As in, I had no idea it worked until I laned with her. I was AP trist. We rocked.

By the way, I would like to ask: how do I get better at teamfights? And I don't mean just positioning, landing your skillshots, and focusing the carry. Sometimes the HP bars get in the way and the fight turns into a big visual mess, and I panic. =(

by **BlackSails** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:09 am UTC

AD lulu is quite silly. I was against a riven top, and she just didnt understand what was happening. AD + 80% slow + shield + medium duration stun + another shield = silly.

by **eeris** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:01 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:I'd buy Diana if I had the IP. Those jokes!

Edit: Oh and, I never knew Lulu was a good AD carry. As in, I had no idea it worked until I laned with her. I was AP trist. We rocked.

By the way, I would like to ask: how do I get better at teamfights? And I don't mean just positioning, landing your skillshots, and focusing the carry. Sometimes the HP bars get in the way and the fight turns into a big visual mess, and I panic. =(

It comes to you the more you play the game. You begin to recognise when spells are used and which ones haven't. It's just a matter of playing the game more so you don't have to think about it. You just know. Also, if your playing AD carry and you can't get through to the people you want to be attacking, be happy with attacking the ones you CAN attack. One thing I've noticed when playing my smurf is that people get into indecision mode with what they should be doing. They have it in their head "I should be attacking their carries. Don't attack the tanks" so when they can't attack the carry and they can only attack the tank they go into a sort of tap dance. Moving towards the tanks as if to go past to the carries then they chick out and run backwards.

Short version: You'll get better at seperating the mess as you play more. If playing AD carry, don't be scared to attack the tanks if that's all you can attack.

by **ProZac** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:12 pm UTC

Yeah, the "don't attack the tanks" as an AD carry is one that bothered the hell out of me. I haven't heard it recently, but I don't know how many games I played as AD carry where I would get bitched at for not focusing the enemy squishies. Goddamnit, I have assassins, bruisers and tanks IN MY FACE. I will shoot what I can, because doing some damage is better than dealing no damage as I try to get to their squishies (and fail).

Also cannot wait for Diana. I don't know why, but the idea of playing an AP is hugely appealing (I don't really play any AP currently). Probably because I mostly pick up champs I know can jungle, of which there aren't many AP junglers.

by **omgryebread** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:27 pm UTC

The whole "don't attack the tanks!" mentality is frustrating, believe it or not, for supports. Instead of trying to support my team who is a reasonable distance from the enemy, staying out range of their carries the best they can, I have to deal with them taking a ton more damage, and putting me in much greater risk. I can support the fuck out of a team that takes reasonable risks. But when Sion charges STRAIGHT THE FUCK IN to kill their carry, I can't heal that, I can't armor you up, Lulu's E and ult aren't going to do shit to protect you, Sona's R, if I get close enough to get it off without melting aren't really going to save you for very long. Then he starts yelling at others to do the same, and unfortunately they listen to him rather than me, so my whole team is running into the Machine of Death that is the Irelia he fed during laning. Rather than laughing about how we have Malzahar and Ashe and their only range is an underfed Annie.

Actually, I think I'm starting to learn that a bad AD partner is one of the less frustrating things as a support. It changes if they're bad and blame me for not somehow saving them when they dive, but a just plain bad AD isn't that hard to cope with.

The worst, Gee Willikers THE WORST, is in pregame chat when someone calls support before I do (or insists on it after I call), and then they don't buy any wards. This makes me want to murder. It makes me wish "not buying wards" was a reportable offense. I would vote punish on any tribunal case with a report like that.

Second worst is the aforementioned bad ADs that blame me. Then the people who rush in. Even worse when they blame me/others. "Soraka why didn't you heal me?!?!" I did, but the damage you took far outweighed my W, and my R, and my summoner heal.

Mids and jungles that don't ward is somewhat frustrating too. Ward the other side of my damn river, please. Ward up our jungle. Ward up their jungle!

People who initiate on baron without fucking sweeping wards. I sometimes hope hell is real, and God is a support player, because if so there's a level of hell for people who don't put a pink down before killing Baron.

People who chase into bushes, and people who initiate fights near bushes. Look, sure the three of you can kill that Vayne easy, but you can't kill the four of them in the bush that she's baiting you towards.

Basically, everything is frustrating on support, because you can't do shit without others. Supports tend to have crappy escapes, so I can't even push a lane away from our turrets alone. So if my team decides to attempt baron when they're all healthier than we are, I have to go along and help them, getting aced, rather than split pushing during the team battle or something that can at least offset the horrible loss I see coming.

Most frustrating is people who flame though. Look, if someone's doing bad, whatever. I'll be the first to say to my AD something like "please stop initiating so hard, they can win straight up fights, let's farm". But there's no reason to insult them, 99% of the time they're earnestly trying, and well-meant advice will help you win far more than "Gee Willikers this ad is feeding". Even if it's too late, they're just not good enough, you've helped them! They'll be better for the next game. 1% of the time, they don't give a fuck, they're doing it their way, effectiveness and advice be damned. Flaming them isn't going to help either. And honestly? I don't know my Elo, but it's probably on the low side, so if you're in a game with me, you're no Salce, so you have a lot you could do to improve your own play.

by **eeris** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:02 pm UTC

Pre-game chat:

Me: AD / Support prefer AD
OtherPlayer: plze let me support my main 1900 ELO
Me (thinking): Odds of him being a terribad support or just trolling if I don't let him get it... Just cause he's clearly lying about his main doesn't mean he isn't still quite good at AD.
Me: Ok I'll support

In game:

OtherPlayer proceeds to fail with positioning and capatalising on opponents bad positioning.

End result:

A loss. I'm frustrated at yet again being the sucker that won't stick with my gut instinct and the knowledge that the same thing will probably happen again and again...

Also; Diana

by **BlackSails** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:29 pm UTC

Ive been playing a lot of support recently, but I often end up with the most gold and carrying. There was a HILARIOUS game where I was support kayle, got all 4 gp/5 items in the first 15 minutes and ended the game 3k gold ahead of anyone else.

by **eeris** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:02 pm UTC

Blitzcrank support. Mobility boots, trinity force, shurelias. Vroooooooom. I think I got about 560/600 movement speed (can't remember the exact number), if anyone was even REMOTELY out of position they were doomed. It's funny watching people trying to juke the hook and then realising I was just going to pop them up with the melee.

by **Weeks** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:09 am UTC

omgryebread wrote:People who initiate on baron without fucking sweeping wards. I sometimes hope hell is real, and God is a support player, because if so there's a level of hell for people who don't put a pink down before killing Baron.

Sometimes it doesn't help anyway. Like, if you're all killed in the bush outside baron. (Guess who just won an epic game ^^)

by **BlackSails** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:36 am UTC

I just won the worst game ever.

Its 5v4 (we have the 5). I go to gank top, our irelia vs their yorick. Irelia is very low. While I am fighting yorick, she runs in, gets ignited and dies instantly, he levels and kills me too. He ends up with 24 kills, and the only reason we win is because I (shyvana) became nearly unkillable eventually (because their skarner went 0/14), while our mf became fully farmed and was doing 500 ad with like 1.9 attack speed + IE crits.

We won, but ugh, what a bad game.

by **Weeks** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:14 am UTC

I guess Irelia is one of those champs that make you feel invincible. What with the heal and shit.

EDIT: SHE'S GONNA BE FREE TO PLAY OH MY GOSH

by **ProZac** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:32 pm UTC

eeris wrote:Blitzcrank support. Mobility boots, trinity force, shurelias. Vroooooooom. I think I got about 560/600 movement speed (can't remember the exact number), if anyone was even REMOTELY out of position they were doomed. It's funny watching people trying to juke the hook and then realising I was just going to pop them up with the melee.

I literally just picked up Blitzcrank and played 2 games last night. It's pretty amusing how easy it is to zone someone in lane with him. Missing a hook that would have been a game changer sucks though... and your team is sure as hell going to let you know that. On a slightly related note, fuck people that just start bitching about their team at the end of the game. Yes Garen, that Yi you were laning against was an unstoppable force. Yeah, you didn't feed him. But you sure as hell weren't to helpful as he ran to other lanes and picked up kill after kill. And your 125 cs to his 250 in a 30 minute game probably had something to do with it as well.

Also, Blitzcrank tips? I was leveling Q first, but after the second game, I realized this was probably dumb, and I should max W first to catch people. Also, build order? I did the standard Philo -> HoG -> Boots (tenacity) -> Aegis, but I'm thinking a different set of boots and possibly Frozen Heart instead of Aegis (because of passive synergy).

by **eeris** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:13 pm UTC

Start boots + ward + 2 pots or boots + 2 wards. Philo/HoG first, depends on the circumstances and I pick up a lucky pick as well then go for mobility boots. This is where things go "freestyle", if your jungler is going shurelias then I tend to skip it till later for some other options depending on the situations:

1. Your quite far ahead and your racking up the gold then go for trinity force IF your jungler is not getting a shurelias.
2. If it's fairly even and the enemy team has lots of AD damage then Frozen Heart.
3. If your team has a lot of AD and you want to buff it for team fights then Zekes Herald.

I max E first as it's a great help in long engagements which often happen if your opponents are running another tanky support bot lane. Each level reduces the cooldown by a whole second, at max level your using it nearly twice as often if it's at level 1. The movement speed gain from the W isn't that much of a big deal when laning and only really comes into play when capitalising on opponents bad positioning when setting up for dragon or some other objective. The only real gain from level Q first is the damage, the CDR isn't great, and it shouldn't realy be considered a nuke. I always level it last.

Runes : Armor marks, gp10 quints and seals, MR/level quints (my standard support page)
Masteries: Something like 1/15/14, pretty obvious which ones in the various trees.

EDIT: It's worth pointing out I've never played blitzcrank in ranked games and I tend to only pick him against certain bot lane combos, IE squishy low mobility such as Ashe/Soraka/Janna/Sona/Graves (depends on my lane partners champion)/trist/draven/varus/yadyada. If you pick Blitz too early you can get easily counterpicked by an ezreal + tanky support combo.

by **Weeks** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:10 am UTC

Tried Irelia out against bots. The most satisfying experience ever. I couldn't resist buying her with RP. D:

by **Asmodieus** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:53 am UTC

What do you guys think of the new Eve rework?

by **Windowlicker** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:21 am UTC

New Eve is... meh. Still not really playable (or, indeed, played). In terms of damage she's a bit better, but her detection range is just way too long. The only thing she can do to 'ambush' is just run into a bush - which is easily countered by pink warding your opponent's lane bush (during lane). The same goes with Twitch - his W change is much, much better than it used to be, but now with a 4s stealth it's just not worth it. I didn't play Twitch before just because he could go invisible - I played him because he could go invisible for a full minute. Aside from that, his damage is still not high enough to make him a pick over 90% of the other AD carries.

by **omgryebread** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:56 am UTC

Would a Tear of the Goddess be a worthwhile item for Blitzcrank? I don't play him, but it seems like it might be nice to grab after Philo, HoG, and Boots, since Rocket Grab looks expensive, and his passive looks pretty nice for survivability.

Speaking of item advice, I've been thinking about Athene's Unholy Grail on Sona. I pretty much always get Chalice of Harmony on her already, and Athene's adds more MR, more mana regen, slightly improves Sona's W, which I spam constantly in the late game anyway, and will make mana even easier to manage, since Sona gets about a billion assists.

On the other hand, it's really expensive. CDR is gotten much cheaper through Shurelya's, which is almost too good to pass up on a support anyway, and through CDR boots, which are really cheap. The only real feasible way I see of getting Athene's is to not get Shurelya's. By the time I get Philo, CDR boots, HoG, and Athene's, I'd probably need some armor, either from Aegis, or upgrading the HoG into Randuin's or Locket.

I suppose I could also see if they didn't have a lot of AD damage AND the jungler got Shurelya's or Aegis. But then I'd be wasting CDR. I guess I could sell the boots at that point and buy Merc Treads, but still seems like a waste.

Basically, I really like the idea of Athene's Unholy Grail on Sona, but I can't really justify it to myself.

by **eeris** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:29 am UTC

New Eve:

No crowd control outside of her ultimate (I think)
Mediocre damage
Can't tank
As far as I'm aware she doesn't have a very fast jungle clear time either

She's outclassed by most other junglers on just about every one of those points and her stealth isn't enough to make up for these disadvantages.

omgryebread wrote:Would a Tear of the Goddess be a worthwhile item for Blitzcrank? I don't play him, but it seems like it might be nice to grab after Philo, HoG, and Boots, since Rocket Grab looks expensive, and his passive looks pretty nice for survivability.

Assuming your playing support and not some mental bruiser/jungle/AP blitz then no it's not worthwhile. It upgrades to nothing useful for your role and I don't see how you should be running out of mana unless your spamming it constantly which is not a great idea. Ideally you should never be using Rocket Grab unless your absolutely sure your going to hit it. I do occasionally run out of mana in lane but when I do it's about time to go back and grab more wards & another GP10 anyway so...

You've pretty much listed all the reasons not to get Athene's on Sona yourself, however I'd like to talk you out of getting Chalice as well. Basically, you shouldn't really need it. Think about getting mana regen runes/masteries and using your abilities less.

Not sure if it's just me but I never feel the need to buy the CDR boots, I always prefer to go for mobility/ninja/merc boots. With shurelias & zekes, any more CDR is pretty much overkill. I also never bother with Locket of Iron Soleraroihsdxcv as it's active isn't that great, I only pick it up if there's nothing else I can really get.

by **Asmodieus** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:50 pm UTC

eeris wrote:New Eve:
No crowd control outside of her ultimate (I think)
Mediocre damage
Can't tank
As far as I'm aware she doesn't have a very fast jungle clear time either

B-but her ult does 20% of the targets maximum health.

by **Weeks** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:03 am UTC

I just lost a game in the stupidest way possible: our Cho'Gath decided to not teamfight anymore. We were 22-14 and 3 turrets ahead. All because he thought our veigar didn't know how to teamfight. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST I hate people sometimes.

by **omgryebread** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:50 pm UTC

Well, hit level 30, just finished my 5 placement games (3 wins, 1 loss as soraka, 1 win as Leona) ended up at 1313 Elo. I feel that's probably right in line for my support play but I'm dreading my first game where I'm not playing support.

by **Adacore** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:30 am UTC

I went to the OnGameNet studios in Seoul on Friday and watched CLG.EU demolish World Elite in their quarter final. Why WE let Froggen pick Anivia is completely beyond me. It was a fun evening, even if the match wasn't that close - made me think I should start playing again.

by **Weeks** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:24 am UTC

I hear Azubu Blaze from Korea is destroying the NA and EU teams in the international tourney.

by **Windowlicker** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:52 am UTC

Blaze won all but one map, yeah. However I don't think it's a wide enough sample to see where they're going in the future. BLACK were clearly underdogs in the tournament.. if nothing else, the had two subs. Curse were also down a man, and haven't been doing particularly well recently. TSM are... well, TSM. It just so happens that Blaze's playstyle can take advantage of Regi communicating poorly with the team and Dyrus not giving a fuck about wards.
Not that I want to take anything away from them, it was a very good performance. But I think it'll be a bit like Moscow 5 out of Kiev: they come out, stomp the fuck out of everyone and then everyone gets their act together and learn how to beat them. Helps that two or three of the western teams have been practising in Korea, though.

by **eeris** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:02 am UTC

Bit surprised that TSM didn't do very well against Blaze but seeing their team comp in the final game it looked like they got completely outpicked more than anything else. They weren't getting out played particularly they just didn't stand much of a chance with the champs picked. TSM have maybe been coasting along and have been a bit arrogant in their play, always expecting to just win with their skills and aggressive style. Maybye losing to Azubu will be a wake up call to them that they need to innovate some more.

CLG.eu and M5 are the teams to watch for I think. CLG were maybe a bit complacent in Poland and didn't perform to their usual standards in the final but their late game play & team composition is exceptional. M5 can always be counted on to bring something new and great skills. I don't think Blaze have played against either of these teams so it will be interesting to see how they match up when they do.

by **Drumheller769** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:48 pm UTC

Sunday's are always horrible LOL days for me. I just shouldn't play ranked on Sunday. 5 losses over the course of the day, either people dc'ing, or just being bad. Not saying I'm the best, but even if I dominate mid say 5/1 by 20 minutes and gank to and bottom lanes, I just cant make enough of an impact to turn the game when 2 of the other 3 lanes fail. I guess I shouldn't say fail, I think I only had 1 maybe 2 games where the other lane fed badly, but there was just so much negativity that our team couldn't help but lose. It also feels like reporting for verbal abuse does nothing, since all my games have people like that.

/rant

On a positive note, only have 3300 IP, but cant wait to try Dianna.

by **Lostdreams** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:38 pm UTC

Drumheller769 wrote:Sunday's are always horrible LOL days for me. I just shouldn't play ranked on Sunday. 5 losses over the course of the day, either people dc'ing, or just being bad. Not saying I'm the best, but even if I dominate mid say 5/1 by 20 minutes and gank to and bottom lanes, I just cant make enough of an impact to turn the game when 2 of the other 3 lanes fail. I guess I shouldn't say fail, I think I only had 1 maybe 2 games where the other lane fed badly, but there was just so much negativity that our team couldn't help but lose. It also feels like reporting for verbal abuse does nothing, since all my games have people like that.

/rant

On a positive note, only have 3300 IP, but cant wait to try Dianna.

Drop middle tower and roam. There is nothing more scary than a fed mid and a jungle roaming at the same time. You can try and give the lane you roam to the kills but at the very least you'll force a teamfight you can win or allow the lane to free farm with less pressure.

Diana is really strong in lane right now, so expect her to be nerfed.

by **Drumheller769** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:39 pm UTC

Yea, I held my own mid against 2 different Dianna's, but man does she pack a punch. I spent as much time juking her skill shot as I did last hitting minions.

by **BlackSails** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:03 am UTC

Diana is also really, really good in the jungle. Having an AP jungler means she needs blue, so fix that by having xin mid

by **eeris** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:13 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:Diana is also really, really good in the jungle. Having an AP jungler means she needs blue, so fix that by having xin mid

Nuts to that! Triple AP meta here we come! Rumble/kennen/vlad in lane and Diana jungle. Just gotta win before the enemy team stacks up on MR.

by **Lostdreams** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:30 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:Diana is also really, really good in the jungle. Having an AP jungler means she needs blue, so fix that by having xin mid

Afte several game against jungle Dianas, I found her jungle to be underwhelmingly average. Especially when compared to her lane.

edit: There are AD/AP players for top,mid,jungle, and support; they really need to add an AP bot carry. (autoattacks are magic damage)

by **Drumheller769** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 pm UTC

The problem with that is its easier to get 500 ap or higher than AD, and how would crit work with that?

by **Windowlicker** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:11 pm UTC

Teemo and Kog both scale in auto-attack damage from their AP. Corki scales true damage with his AD. I don't think there's any real call for an AP bot.

by **Lostdreams** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:23 pm UTC

Truthfully, I have no idea about the crit and other itmes interactions other than it would take a rebalance. It would just be nice to have some variance in bot lane's main source of damage.

As to Teemo, Kog, and Corki: Teemo has a bunch of problems and is played almost exclusively top. A "portion" of Kog's damage scales off of AP. If you play Kog AP he stops being competative as AD carry and starts being played as an AP caster. Corki has true damage but you're still going to stack hp and armor when you play against him, just in slightly different ratios than normal.

I guess what I'm looking for is a champ that plays the ADC role but makes you need to stack MR instead of AR.

by **eeris** » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:56 pm UTC

I've always wanted to try an AP Ezreal + Soraka bot lane combo and see how that would work. Ez with 500AP, lichbane and DFG is super scary. Problem is, no good team will ever let you get to those items.

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