What is wrong with Other M?

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Kag
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Kag » Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:54 am UTC

I hate to keep bringing this up, but the stuff you're complaining about works just fine in Super Metroid.

These games just don't make sense . The problem is one of execution.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby EmptySet » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:57 am UTC

I'm not seeing how the things I mentioned are present to any great extent in Super Metroid. As far as I can recall, the only triggers of the sort I am talking about are the wrecked ship powering up (which doesn't work properly if you somehow manage to enter the ship from the wrong side), and the boss statue which enables entry to the final area. At no point are you required, for example, to fire a missile at a power bomb door, even though you know that won't work, thus causing a door on the opposite side of the map to spontaneously open.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby SirBryghtside » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:34 pm UTC

Seeing as I'm actually awesome, I did a review:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.234561

Anyway, the gist of the storyline argument, for me, that the ideas were all there, but the backstory was boring and irrelevant, leading to a story that, overall, sucked.

But the gameplay was awesome :D
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Kag » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:27 pm UTC

EmptySet wrote:I'm not seeing how the things I mentioned are present to any great extent in Super Metroid. As far as I can recall, the only triggers of the sort I am talking about are the wrecked ship powering up (which doesn't work properly if you somehow manage to enter the ship from the wrong side), and the boss statue which enables entry to the final area. At no point are you required, for example, to fire a missile at a power bomb door, even though you know that won't work, thus causing a door on the opposite side of the map to spontaneously open.


There's also the one random Chozo statue that actually does something when you morph ball in it. Which, considering that there's no scanner to tell you exactly what to do all the time, is way more confusing.

And the point isn't that Super Metroid does it all the time, it's that it works.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby endlessorigami » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:18 am UTC

I'm really bummed, the supposedly best games for the Wii are more or less mediocre versions of what's already been done so far. (Not trying to start a flame war here, just my opinion)

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Sleipner » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:32 pm UTC

endlessorigami wrote:I'm really bummed, the supposedly best games for the Wii are more or less mediocre versions of what's already been done so far. (Not trying to start a flame war here, just my opinion)

Hidden troll is hidden. But in all seriousness, I think you have a point there. I don't own a Wii myself, and I'm actually quite proud of that; the system is designed around a concept that, to me, is a step in the wrong direction while looking at the right road. Some of the games might be good, Okami and MP3 in particular, but even those are just ports of a game to the console or moved up because the Gamecube was already left behind. Call me a stickler for 'hardcore' gaming, but motion controls are a silly concept in the first place. Like Yahtzee says, we should be moving towards controls that minimize the distance from player thought to action on-screen, and motion control is simply an attempt to mimic that immersion while actually going in the opposite direction.

Original topic: Other M still sucks. Hard.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby GhostWolfe » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:17 am UTC

Sleipner wrote:...the system is designed around a concept that, to me, is a step in the wrong direction while looking at the right road. Some of the games might be good, Okami and MP3 in particular.
I've been using Okami as an example of how to get motion control right, and how to get it wrong.

Using the motion control Celestial Brush on the wii makes a lot of sense, you draw with the wiimote. However, while everything else is bound to one of the remote or nunchuck buttons, attacking is effected by waggling the wiimote - it doesn't add anything to experience, it's not more realistic or more immersive, it's just annoying.

The new versions of Pikmin have sensible motion control (possibly because it has such a limited range of commands anyway). You aim at the Pikmin you want to control to call them, or you aim at your target to direct or throw them. There's no pointless shaking of the remote.

My wii has always been good to me, but my collection of games can be defined by the fact that they use very limited, or no, motion control.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby EmptySet » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:56 am UTC

Yeah, the problem with the Wii is that for all the claims motion control was going to revolutionise gaming, it's mostly either used as an abstract, less-convenient form of button or poorly implemented just for the sake of having motion control. Far from making games more immersive, in many cases it makes them less so because it feels unresponsive and unreliable. It doesn't really add anything to most games; it just gets in the way.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Ryom » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:14 pm UTC

Kag wrote:
EmptySet wrote:I'm not seeing how the things I mentioned are present to any great extent in Super Metroid. As far as I can recall, the only triggers of the sort I am talking about are the wrecked ship powering up (which doesn't work properly if you somehow manage to enter the ship from the wrong side), and the boss statue which enables entry to the final area. At no point are you required, for example, to fire a missile at a power bomb door, even though you know that won't work, thus causing a door on the opposite side of the map to spontaneously open.


There's also the one random Chozo statue that actually does something when you morph ball in it. Which, considering that there's no scanner to tell you exactly what to do all the time, is way more confusing.

And the point isn't that Super Metroid does it all the time, it's that it works.


What you need to do is not all that unclear actually. You enter a room with a chozo statue, except this one, unlike the rest, holds nothing in its hand. This alerts you that something could be amiss. So you turn on your XRAY beam and scan the room, which reveals that there is a hidden area under your feet. We know that changes to whatever the statue is holding can be a trigger of some sort (example: when you take a power up from an earlier statue and it attacks) so we experiment: What fits in the statue's hands? A morphed Samus. Click.

The game is full of basic puzzles, so this is just yet another one. We expect it by now, and that's why it isn't just a random unknowable trigger.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Kag » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

Ryom wrote:XRAY beam and scan the room, which reveals that there is a hidden area under your feet. We know that changes to whatever the statue is holding can be a trigger of some sort (example: when you take a power up from an earlier statue and it attacks)


That's a stretch, and it's easy to miss the x-ray.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Sleipner » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:27 pm UTC

Kag wrote:That's a stretch, and it's easy to miss the x-ray.

And let's not forget, some of us *cough* Me *cough* are somewhat afraid of turning the damn thing on. Mainly the Chozo ghosts, they freak me the heck out. But the puzzle itself is still rather simple, and there's a simple way to test whether or not what I just said is true: get three people to run through the game up to that point, and see how quickly they figure the puzzle out. You might have to kidnap a few of them to find someone who hasn't played Metroid Prime yet, though.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby diamonds » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:04 pm UTC

Sleipner wrote:
Kag wrote:That's a stretch, and it's easy to miss the x-ray.

And let's not forget, some of us *cough* Me *cough* are somewhat afraid of turning the damn thing on. Mainly the Chozo ghosts, they freak me the heck out. But the puzzle itself is still rather simple, and there's a simple way to test whether or not what I just said is true: get three people to run through the game up to that point, and see how quickly they figure the puzzle out. You might have to kidnap a few of them to find someone who hasn't played Metroid Prime yet, though.

Personally the Chozo Ghosts just annoy me. It's like ugh you guys again? Rest In Peace already!. Maybe it scared me the first time I don't know. It's the Metroids that totally make me jump out of my skin. You walk into a room with a soft hum or something, looks all clear, and then "CAAAWWWWWWWWW" some floating jellyfish goes full speed for your head from the other side of the room. Never fails. Other M is sort of boring like the former, it plays like a dungeon crawl. Probably the best thing that happened to Metroid was a small Texas-based development studio, so it could get away from the JRPG elements and focus on something entirely new without outside influence.

I can't determine anything that's the same from the rest of the series. Not plot, not game mechanic, only only thing recognizable is Samus (and even then only by name), and Ridley, and other things like that. What is unique to Metroid is nonlinear exploration and backtracking, the concept that you can freeform sort of explore an environment, by yourself, and build up expansions to unlock more elements. Not just "hey I have to go back to this room for some reason" but the area takes on entirely new meaning, case in point, almost all of Metroid Prime. It doesn't follow a particular order, and often doesn't even have any of the invisible walls or anything that keeps you from hacking the game apart (which is awesome, if it's the sort of hacking you will never encounter in normal gameplay). The sort of stuff that makes speed runs fun.

I propose a theory, let's call it Law of Metroid: Success of a Metroid game can be gauged by how popular it is to speed run.

Not that anyone thinks this but there's nothing wrong with voice acting in Metroid games, instead, it, along with dialog as a whole, simply shouldn't be necessary, except maybe for limited cutscenes. Removing the scan visor was exhibit A in Other M suckage (for a Metroid title), because getting all your plot information from forensics (in a manner) was brilliant, and entirely constistnt with how the 2D games were designed to be played. The first shots (about the distress signal, that's just text printed on a screen and some awesome establishing shots) and the first portion of Metroid Prime (until you land) is probably one of the best there is, right next to Orcania of Time and (for the former) Super Mario 64. Idk someone call me out on that one.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.234561-SirBryghtside-Reviews-Metroid-Other-M:
SirBryghtside wrote:Truth is, the storyline wasn't sexist, character destroying or anything.

It just sucked.
Well said, maybe. It certainly wasn't true to Samus, as someone who is fiercely independent, maybe that's character destroying.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby SirBryghtside » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:10 am UTC

diamonds wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.234561-SirBryghtside-Reviews-Metroid-Other-M:
SirBryghtside wrote:Truth is, the storyline wasn't sexist, character destroying or anything.

It just sucked.
Well said, maybe. It certainly wasn't true to Samus, as someone who is fiercely independent, maybe that's character destroying.

Mmmm... I've looked over that review a lot of times, and I'm really not sure any more.

I think the point I was really trying to make was that there were reasonable actions, but because of the terrible storyline, exaggerated beyond all sense of reason.

For example, the infamous Ridley scene. Should she be shocked that after she's blown up every last space pirate, that the worst should remain? Of course. But should she break down crying? Hell no. It didn't fit with her character, but that still didn't make it 'sexist' or 'character destroying', it just made the storytelling awful.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Sleipner » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:45 pm UTC

I recently took a look at an old MovieBob video, right here: http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2010/09/episode-40-heavens-to-metroid.html .

It was interesting to see a positive take on the game from an eloquent, well-thought out perspective, and I have to admit I agree with a few of his points. My opinion remains unchanged, however, that Team Ninja made a lot of mistakes, some of which should have been blindingly obvious. Anyways, for anyone else who sees that video, what is your take on the great MovieBob's words?

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby RandomPoem » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:47 pm UTC

I'll try and write this while watching the above video...


Samus is not one-dimensional. Not at all. Not even in Metroid (just plain Metroid), where I could see some people as characterizing her as entirely flat, there is no way you can call her devoid of personality if you've ever played Metroid Prime 3. Or if you witnessed Baby Metroid die. Or if you've scanned every last piece of Chozo Lore. Moving on.

Yay Bioshock! Also Ayn Rand! And sentence fragments! But, Team Ninja did NOT take a risk with Other M. They took a gun to Metroid's head.

"It would have been impressive had the game turned out GOOD." <--- questionable grammar

The controls do NOT WORK. He's gushing over the fact that its a crappy control scheme that works... But it doesn't. Hence crappy.

Then he bashes FPS's because LOTS OF PEOPLE MAKE THEM?! Metroid Prime was SO much of a bigger risk than Other M. Going BACK to 3rd person is so much easier than going to 1st person for the first time ever. He's neglecting the huge risk that Nintendo made when going with Retro Studios as well. I think that if he replaced the words "Other M" with "Prime", I would agree with him a lot more...

How on Zebes is the power-up system CREATIVE?!? "Oh, by the way Samus, you can use those missiles that would've saved your ass repeatedly now. You couldn't before... Because I said so. Or forgot. Or both." His fireproof suit analogy makes my argument. And that whole "church vs. temple" dilemma literally is the equivalent of comparing jumping off a bridge to eating glue.

That Strawman thing was so uncreative and pretty damn obnoxious. I hate this man. Get off your high horse.

She's taken orders before. And shown PTSD before, and no one cried. That's because THOSE GAMES DID IT WELL. And don't compare Samus to anything in a wardrobe.

I don't believe that Other M should count as Metroid back-story. At all.

All these assumptions he's making I have never heard before. He's just making up crap to justify why he's not wrong. But without the made-up crap, he hasn't proven his argument. Which is wrong anyway.

We all knew about the weaknesses, personality, and yadda yadda that he went on about in the conclusion. ALL OF US. They were all shown in every Metroid game. I guess this guy just didn't see it. The problem is that Other M treats Samus like crap. Her lines are crap. Her personality is crap. Everything about her is complete crap. Oh, and the voice they chose for her is so bland. Also Team Ninja does not deserve to give Samus her first speaking lines. This is why, as far as I am concerned, Other M does not exist.

BLARGH he does it again! There was so much more to Samus than Baby Metroid! That was not the ONLY TIME Samus ever had character. There's a reason people didn't flame at her "playing mommy". It's because THOSE GAMES DIDN'T CRAP ON SAMUS AS A PERSON. THANK YOU.


I went into watching this, hoping that I wouldn't be spoon-fed crap. My hopes were crushed. His only valid point was that the graphics and idea behind going into "2.5D" was nice. That's all. 1st person controls destroy the game, 3rd person controls are okay. If you take away all the "story" in Other M, you have a semi-decent, playable Metroid game, similar to Metroid Pinball. Instead, you have this flaming corpse of a game. The end.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Kag » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:37 am UTC

RandomPoem wrote:shown PTSD before


Wait when did that happen?
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby ProZac » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:00 pm UTC

RandomPoem wrote:Lots of rant-y stuff.

So, you make a claim that Samus had personality before, but have nothing to back that up? I'm especially interested to hear how she had personality in the original Metroid. I'd love to hear where you get that.

I'm also interested in this idea about "Going back to 3rd person". Seeing as Other M is the first 3rd person game in the series, it's hardly going back. Changing the gameplay style in any series is a risk, along with handing it off to another studio, which Nintendo did for both Other M and Prime.

I'll continue to say that Other M was my favorite Wii game of that year (competition wasn't much) and it's definitely better than Corruption. I hope they continue to make Metroid games like this, because Retro ran out of things to do with the Prime formula.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:52 pm UTC

Wait, 3rd Person the viewpoint like the literary device, or 3rd Person Shooter, the genre of gaming in which you control a character from an over-the-shoulder viewpoint?

Because the first Metroid game fits the criteria of the first usage, as well as a crapload of other Metroid games. Other M is .. I guess.. the first one to fit the second definition which needs one more word (Shooter) to clarify what is being said.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby ProZac » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:10 pm UTC

Hm. No matter what perspective you play from I would say the story is told in the same manner. And seeing as FPS's were referenced right before that, I assumed we were speaking genre. In which case I'd put the progression of the series at Side-scrolling adventure -> First Person Adventure -> Third Person Adventure. They aren't really action/shooter games since the focus tends to be exploration (debatle for Other M though).

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby RandomPoem » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:36 pm UTC

I feel like I need to add this idea before I do anything.

Sitting in math, not paying attention at all, I thought of the scene from True Grit where
Spoiler:
Little Blackie (the horse) was shot.
This scene made me pretty upset, not because of what happened, but because of what didn't. There was a lack of any real concrete scenes where we felt the girl and the horse connect, as well as I felt the scene in question as a whole was rushed. Basically, I felt kind of STOIC when it happened.

Then I figured out why I love Metroid.

You spend hours... Alone. No human contact. Sometimes hours are spent without even finding one enemy to fight. Hours spent exploring the world through the visor of a woman. This kind of solitude creates a Stockholm Syndrome of sorts, where you start to project onto Samus. Or perhaps she projects onto you. Reading lore of her (your) saviors, the Chozo, desperately fighting some great corruption, killing some powerful, yet not entirely evil creature pains her (you). Seeing her (your) eyes in a reflection on the visor... You connect with Samus. Know her past and you experience the game how she does. In Prime 3, killing your former allies tore me apart morally. I didn't land the killing blow on Rundas for at least ten minutes because I was waiting for him to "snap out" of his corruption, or something. It didn't come. I had to kill the one who saved my life, perhaps to save his. It's hard for me to explain this. I like to immerse myself in whatever kind of fiction I am experiencing. I feel it adds so much to the story as a whole. (Eragon, Halo, Metroid, GTA, The Last Colossus, etc.) To add on to this, Metroid Prime was the first console game I ever owned. So sitting in my dark basement with a 14" screen, I connected with Samus.

People who say Samus has no personality haven't been looking hard enough. It's been there all along. You just have to look. The way that her emotions, morals, thoughts, hopes, and beliefs are projected without even a word is art to me. Understand Samus' past, and you can know how she feels. She doesn't need crappy one-liners, talking to herself, or a bunch of mediocre voice acting to draw it out. In a way, Samus is like an archived file. Know the right stuff, and extracting her personality becomes automatic. Without this empathy of sorts, Samus will seem like a blank template of a character. And this is why I love Metroid. Samus isn't just a reflection in a visor- she's me.


Rebuttals

Kag wrote:
RandomPoem wrote:shown PTSD before


Wait when did that happen?


Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder involves a huuuge array of symptoms. I'd recommend checking out Wikipedia, but it is clear that Samus exhibits some of these, but I would say it is very subtle, like the rest of her personality.


ProZac wrote:
RandomPoem wrote:Lots of rant-y stuff.

I'm also interested in this idea about "Going back to 3rd person". Seeing as Other M is the first 3rd person game in the series, it's hardly going back. Changing the gameplay style in any series is a risk, along with handing it off to another studio, which Nintendo did for both Other M and Prime.

I'll continue to say that Other M was my favorite Wii game of that year (competition wasn't much) and it's definitely better than Corruption. I hope they continue to make Metroid games like this, because Retro ran out of things to do with the Prime formula.


Brooklyn Rage! Every Metroid except Prime was a 3rd person side-scroller. Hence my reasoning why Retro was super ballsy going to 1st. Corruption was so amazing on so many levels, and the "Prime formula"? You make it sound like a scheme or something. Retro added tons of new features, and finished the story so very very well. The whole idea of Samus becoming corrupt with PED Suit usage is one great example. However, I will agree that with some work, the new style of Other M could be as fresh and exciting as Prime. But that's the point- it needs work. Especially the broken 1st person controls... and don't even get me STARTED on "story" (again).


SecondTalon wrote:Wait, 3rd Person the viewpoint like the literary device, or 3rd Person Shooter, the genre of gaming in which you control a character from an over-the-shoulder viewpoint?

Because the first Metroid game fits the criteria of the first usage, as well as a crapload of other Metroid games. Other M is .. I guess.. the first one to fit the second definition which needs one more word (Shooter) to clarify what is being said.


You'd be hard-pressed to find a single 3rd person game in the literary sense. "Hit A to see how THIS battle turns out" sounds more like a movie to me. Or theater mode in Halo... So yes, every Metroid is 1st person in the literary sense.


ProZac wrote:Hm. No matter what perspective you play from I would say the story is told in the same manner. And seeing as FPS's were referenced right before that, I assumed we were speaking genre. In which case I'd put the progression of the series at Side-scrolling adventure -> First Person Adventure -> Third Person Adventure. They aren't really action/shooter games since the focus tends to be exploration (debatle for Other M though).


(debatable*) You have a point, but side-scrolling is still 3rd person, and I would categorize each Metroid as an action-adventure-platformer-puzzle-shooter kind of game.



EDIT: Looking back, I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up the fact that I still crap my pants when I see a Chozo Ghost, and I'd be lying if I said the screech of a Metroid didn't still give me goosebumps.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:00 pm UTC

RandomPoem wrote:You'd be hard-pressed to find a single 3rd person game in the literary sense. "Hit A to see how THIS battle turns out" sounds more like a movie to me. Or theater mode in Halo...

So, Final Fantasy XIII?

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby ProZac » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:23 pm UTC

RandomPoem wrote:Brooklyn Rage! Every Metroid except Prime was a 3rd person side-scroller. Hence my reasoning why Retro was super ballsy going to 1st. Corruption was so amazing on so many levels, and the "Prime formula"? You make it sound like a scheme or something. Retro added tons of new features, and finished the story so very very well. The whole idea of Samus becoming corrupt with PED Suit usage is one great example. However, I will agree that with some work, the new style of Other M could be as fresh and exciting as Prime. But that's the point- it needs work. Especially the broken 1st person controls... and don't even get me STARTED on "story" (again).
Uh... yeah. Prime had a formula in a way that it was different from most other first person shooters. I couldn't point to any game and say "that's like Metroid Prime" or even say "This is a Prime clone". The first was great and unique. The second one was mostly more of the same with a dark/light world mechanic (oh how I hate those). By 3 they really didn't introduce anything new. Not to say it was bad, but it was definitely the most forgettable of the 3. I didn't find the 1st controls 'broken' in Other M. I never had trouble with them, though I did have thoughts of "why the hell can't I just use a nunchuck"? And yeah, story terrible. Someone should make a version of Other M that removes all cutscenes. Then you can pretend you're alone on an abandon ship investigating what happened!
RandomPoem wrote:(debatable*) You have a point, but side-scrolling is still 3rd person, and I would categorize each Metroid as an action-adventure-platformer-puzzle-shooter kind of game.
I suppose only the way you could say only the way you view the game changes but that's still a huge change. Not many would argue that Super Mario World to Super Mario 64 wasn't a huge jump. Same for the links of Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby RandomPoem » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:29 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
RandomPoem wrote:You'd be hard-pressed to find a single 3rd person game in the literary sense. "Hit A to see how THIS battle turns out" sounds more like a movie to me. Or theater mode in Halo...

So, Final Fantasy XIII?


Image

Hahahahaha! Basically every TBS ever...

Which doesn't mean they can't be fun, challenging, or intense, don't get me wrong. I just like to make fun of things.


EDIT:
ProZac wrote:Uh... yeah. Prime had a formula in a way that it was different from most other first person shooters. I couldn't point to any game and say "that's like Metroid Prime" or even say "This is a Prime clone". The first was great and unique. The second one was mostly more of the same with a dark/light world mechanic (oh how I hate those). By 3 they really didn't introduce anything new. Not to say it was bad, but it was definitely the most forgettable of the 3. I didn't find the 1st controls 'broken' in Other M. I never had trouble with them, though I did have thoughts of "why the hell can't I just use a nunchuck"? And yeah, story terrible. Someone should make a version of Other M that removes all cutscenes. Then you can pretend you're alone on an abandon ship investigating what happened!


You have some great points. I guess personally, I just didn't dig the control scheme. And I always find it funny when people criticize Prime 2 as "too hard". Too hard, really? Go play Demon's Souls, or BattleToads, or even Super Meat Boy, whiners. Anywho, I really feel like Prime 3 may have added a little less in the way of gameplay, but you have to admit, the story and voice acting was superb. If only Other M took a page out of THAT book...

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:09 pm UTC

Sleipner wrote:I recently took a look at an old MovieBob video, right here: http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2010/09/episode-40-heavens-to-metroid.html .

It was interesting to see a positive take on the game from an eloquent, well-thought out perspective, and I have to admit I agree with a few of his points. My opinion remains unchanged, however, that Team Ninja made a lot of mistakes, some of which should have been blindingly obvious. Anyways, for anyone else who sees that video, what is your take on the great MovieBob's words?

Eh, I watched that a while ago. He makes a couple of good points (I honestly didn't mind the hell run, I thought the way they dealt with power-ups was pretty decent), but as I''ve said before - the story simply sucked. No matter how much you say that she never had a character before, how much you say it wasn't sexist, how much you try to explain the Ridley scene, the storyline was Godawful. No question about it, at least in my mind.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby EmptySet » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:57 am UTC

RandomPoem wrote:Anywho, I really feel like Prime 3 may have added a little less in the way of gameplay, but you have to admit, the story and voice acting was superb. If only Other M took a page out of THAT book...


It did have a completely new control scheme. I feel like maybe you're allowed to follow formula a bit in the other parts of the game when it's on your shoulders to demonstrate that Nintendo's hardware is actually useful for something other than minigame collections.

EDIT: Side note: I wouldn't consider Prime 3's story and voice acting "superb". It was decent enough, I guess? The other hunters were mildly interesting - Rundas was pretty cool with his ice surfing thing - but I'd honestly have preferred it if Samus had been alone the whole way. For me that's always been part of the Metroid atmosphere. Of course, Other M wasn't any better on that front.
Last edited by EmptySet on Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:26 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby ProZac » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:18 pm UTC

RandomPoem wrote:Anywho, I really feel like Prime 3 may have added a little less in the way of gameplay, but you have to admit, the story and voice acting was superb. If only Other M took a page out of THAT book...
I believe this is another point where we'll have to disagree. It's been ... 4 years since I played it but about the only thing I rememeber is "Samus is infected with phazon! Here are other bounty hunters you'll be working with. It'll be no surprise when they're bosses later in the game!"

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby RandomPoem » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:57 pm UTC

ProZac wrote:
RandomPoem wrote:Anywho, I really feel like Prime 3 may have added a little less in the way of gameplay, but you have to admit, the story and voice acting was superb. If only Other M took a page out of THAT book...
I believe this is another point where we'll have to disagree. It's been ... 4 years since I played it but about the only thing I rememeber is "Samus is infected with phazon! Here are other bounty hunters you'll be working with. It'll be no surprise when they're bosses later in the game!"


Haha I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. As long as everyone here is on the Metroid Train of Awesome (choo choo) then I'm happy.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:06 pm UTC

RandomPoem wrote:
ProZac wrote:
RandomPoem wrote:Anywho, I really feel like Prime 3 may have added a little less in the way of gameplay, but you have to admit, the story and voice acting was superb. If only Other M took a page out of THAT book...
I believe this is another point where we'll have to disagree. It's been ... 4 years since I played it but about the only thing I rememeber is "Samus is infected with phazon! Here are other bounty hunters you'll be working with. It'll be no surprise when they're bosses later in the game!"


Haha I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. As long as everyone here is on the Metroid Train of Awesome (choo choo) then I'm happy.
I played it a couple years back, and yeah, the story was obvious. But very, very well done - I remember the Gandrayda scene

Spoiler:
where you detect a signal from a G-Fed soldier. I guess I was so lonely that I followed it without question, and I swear I realised he was Gandrayda at the exact same time as Samus.

Plus, she had an epic death sequence. Total awesomeness :D
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby EmptySet » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:21 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:I played it a couple years back, and yeah, the story was obvious. But very, very well done - I remember the Gandrayda scene

Spoiler:
where you detect a signal from a G-Fed soldier. I guess I was so lonely that I followed it without question, and I swear I realised he was Gandrayda at the exact same time as Samus.

Plus, she had an epic death sequence. Total awesomeness :D


Really? I found it quite obvious what was going to happen there. You mileage may vary, I guess.

Spoiler:
Death sequence was pretty good, though.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Sleipner » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:06 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
RandomPoem wrote:You'd be hard-pressed to find a single 3rd person game in the literary sense. "Hit A to see how THIS battle turns out" sounds more like a movie to me. Or theater mode in Halo...

So, Final Fantasy XIII?

Ouch. But oh, so true.

SirBryghtside wrote:Eh, I watched that a while ago. He makes a couple of good points (I honestly didn't mind the hell run, I thought the way they dealt with power-ups was pretty decent), but as I''ve said before - the story simply sucked. No matter how much you say that she never had a character before, how much you say it wasn't sexist, how much you try to explain the Ridley scene, the storyline was Godawful. No question about it, at least in my mind.

I agree that it still sucked, but I think the reason it struck me to see a positive opinion was that I was so busy demonizing every last aspect of it that I had mentally put the game on the level of Kane and Lynch II, which not even Other M deserves. It's easy to get swept up in fanboy rage, but hard to keep a practical and level-headed opinion.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby legopelle » Tue May 03, 2011 2:10 pm UTC

I guess this is relevant?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... om-Other-M

For you who doesn't watch this brilliant show, it's basically the same format as the above game overthinker video (sans high horse) but with a much heavier lean towards video game production. One of the cast is a professional game designer and another an animator at Pixar.(!) It's funny, insightful and cute.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Sleipner » Tue May 03, 2011 7:22 pm UTC

legopelle wrote:I guess this is relevant?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... om-Other-M

Actually, I was planning on linking this and mentioning it. Doesn't say anything particularly new, although they do make a good point against MovieBob's previous position (the whole 'she was already a blank slate' thing), so I didn't have to.

Also, it seems almost all info on this has come from either SirBryghtSide or The Escapist. Wonder why.

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby legopelle » Tue May 03, 2011 8:20 pm UTC

Sleipner wrote:
legopelle wrote:I guess this is relevant?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... om-Other-M

Actually, I was planning on linking this and mentioning it. Doesn't say anything particularly new, although they do make a good point against MovieBob's previous position (the whole 'she was already a blank slate' thing), so I didn't have to.

Also, it seems almost all info on this has come from either SirBryghtSide or The Escapist. Wonder why.

The moviebob (his Game Overthinker persona) video is actually from screwattack, his two other shows are indeed found at escapistmagazine.

I guess the escapist is just a central scene for gaming videos and stuff.

On a related note; I liked their explanation for the chain of execution for Other M. It's obvious they didn't think Team Ninja to be the perfect character development plant.
The Reaper wrote:I'm still fine with people having reactors, and still against them weaponizing the leftovers.

Walter Bishop wrote:Why would anyone kill a scientist? What have we ever done?

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue May 03, 2011 8:37 pm UTC

Sleipner wrote:
legopelle wrote:I guess this is relevant?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... om-Other-M

Actually, I was planning on linking this and mentioning it. Doesn't say anything particularly new, although they do make a good point against MovieBob's previous position (the whole 'she was already a blank slate' thing), so I didn't have to.

Also, it seems almost all info on this has come from either SirBryghtSide or The Escapist. Wonder why.

Are you accusing me of something? :P

Nah, I just posted a review that would be ridiculous to post in its entirety here. I use the Escapist more than this place, but I didn't post anything but that. I just thought about the subject a lot (for the review).

And yeah, I watched the EC video. Made a lot of good points; stole a lot of words from my mouth.
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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Sindayven » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:57 am UTC

I don't think this was linked yet, but it's a pretty good read about some of the story problems that plagued Other M.

http://moonbase.rydia.net/mental/blog/gaming/metroid-other-m-the-elephant/article.html

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Re: What is wrong with Other M?

Postby Lazar » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:58 am UTC

Yeah, that's a pretty damning analysis of it.
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