X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

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Shivahn
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Shivahn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:10 am UTC

Oh. You know, I have no idea. When that happened, I was using guys with rocketeer. It was still enough to two-hit sectopods.. Hrm. Now I am curious.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby HungryHobo » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:38 am UTC

I've probabaly bought the xcom apoc 4 times now.I know I have 3 CD's of it, at least once when I wanted a newer one in the series and the pack was cheaper than the individual game.

that said I wasn't able to run UFO Defense before. thankfully steam has it neatly set up.

I know apoc had it's problems but the combat and a few other things are just so much better. it's a pity they messed up on some points, might download some of the mods.

for one in UFO defense even with armor there doesn't seem to be anything between unharmed and instant death. at least in apoc I could set up killzones with agents lying down and in cover, UFO Defense seems to be combat more like old style european combat. stand tall, shoot and hope you don't get a cannonball in the face.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:59 pm UTC

4chan on EU:

>battlescanner
>spot an alium group before they spot me
>rocket launcher the group to death
>OOOGA BOOGA cinematic pops up
>ACTION CLOSE UP of a bunch of corpses
oh Enemy Unknown


They do have a point... and I do do really dislike those, uh, "OOGA BOOGA" cutscenes.
Last edited by Menacing Spike on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:07 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:07 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:4chan on EU:

>battlescanner
>spot an alium group before they spot me
>rocket launcher the group to death
>OOOGA BOOGA cinematic pops up
>ACTION CLOSE UP of a bunch of corpses
oh Enemy Unknown

They do have a point... and I do do really dislike those, uh, "OOGA BOOGA" cutscenes.

I hate the fact that the aliens get a free move when uncovered. For some reason, the battlescanner doesn't trigger this free move, but an actual XCOM soldier viewing them does.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:59 pm UTC

Yeah, after seeing these ooga booga cutscenes for the umpteenth time, I really have to wonder what the game designers were thinking by including these without a 'no oogabooga cutscene' option. And yes, it drives me crazy that they get a free move.

I dunno if anyone else has experienced this, but I'm sort of under the impression that when the game lists a 'chance to hit' percentage, it has already done the calculation. I haven't tested this extensively, but if I make a save where a guy is looking at an alien, and has a 50% chance to hit, and he fires and misses, reloading the save and firing again, even after 10 tries, never produces a hit.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby DaBigCheez » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:08 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:4chan on EU:

>battlescanner
>spot an alium group before they spot me
>rocket launcher the group to death
>OOOGA BOOGA cinematic pops up
>ACTION CLOSE UP of a bunch of corpses
oh Enemy Unknown

They do have a point... and I do do really dislike those, uh, "OOGA BOOGA" cutscenes.

I hate the fact that the aliens get a free move when uncovered. For some reason, the battlescanner doesn't trigger this free move, but an actual XCOM soldier viewing them does.

More generally, they get the "freemove to cover" when they spot *you*. So, battlescanner, ghost armor scout, etc. won't trigger it, but shooting them, running into sight range, them running into you, etc. will. (At least it ends their turn if they do it as a result of their move...)

As far as the 'chance to hit', it uses a static RNG seed generated when the mission is spawned - so, if you save and reload from the exact same point and do the exact same action, you will always get the exact same result. Same if you play an entire turn or entire mission the exact same way as you did before reloading. If you do the actions in a different order, though, you can cheese this to have some control over what will/won't hit.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:12 pm UTC

Ah. Interesting! If I want to exploit the save games then I need to do the action differently. Interesting, thanks!
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby HungryHobo » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:21 am UTC

possibly even just have a different soldier move first.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Jack21222 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:26 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Ah. Interesting! If I want to exploit the save games then I need to do the action differently. Interesting, thanks!


Or, just don't exploit save games. I mean, it's your game, you're free to do with it what you like, but I just don't think you get the full experience by save scumming.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:07 pm UTC

Jack21222 wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:Ah. Interesting! If I want to exploit the save games then I need to do the action differently. Interesting, thanks!


Or, just don't exploit save games. I mean, it's your game, you're free to do with it what you like, but I just don't think you get the full experience by save scumming.


I only savescum if panic goes too badly and I estimate the game unwinable with those who survived.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:13 pm UTC

Jack21222 wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:Ah. Interesting! If I want to exploit the save games then I need to do the action differently. Interesting, thanks!


Or, just don't exploit save games. I mean, it's your game, you're free to do with it what you like, but I just don't think you get the full experience by save scumming.

It's definitely not something I make a habit of, as I said, I had only tested it with a singular example and was wondering why despite 50% chances of hitting a target, 10/10 experiments with saving, firing, reloading save, firing, etc, came out as a miss.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:00 pm UTC

Finished the game. According to the stats, I finished 10 days ahead of average.

Spoiler:
The final boss was a fucking joke. Appears, speech, summon elite guards, my turn, headshot, double tab, nooo impossible aaargh, the end.
What I liked what that I kept the survivor of the first mission alive for the whole game; he ended up with the gift, and the only surviving psyonic when the chamber was constructed. He pretty much soloed the temple ship with Mind Control and Rift, and ended up saving the world. He gained his plot relevance back with panache and skill :D.

Plot-wise, that ending was complete shit and I hope the next game Firaxis sells will be actually finished and not an obvious DLC framework.


Sorta tempted to try it again on Impossible, but fuck that. The gameplay is too repetitive.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Nylonathatep » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:59 pm UTC

Saw a "let's play" on the Penny Arcade forums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5sYw49ls3I

Fell in love with the game and bought it off stream. Playing on normal right now with no ironclad. I might play it on classic when I finish it off normal.

SlyReaper wrote:Well, I've assaulted the alien base and didn't lose anyone, so yay. At the end, there was a psychic sectoid which took control of one of my soldiers. Happily, my sniper was able to kill the sectoid before my turn ended, so I didn't have to shoot my own dude. I'm now building a psionic lab - with a bit of luck, next time an alien tries to mind control one of my dudes, I can use one of my other dudes to mind control him right back. That was pretty much my strategy in Apocalypse anyway. Either way, I'm super happy there are psionics in this game. I was beginning to think that was yet another thing that had been cut from the originals.


I didn't have have enough materials/Cash/Research time to make the key so When I finally assault the alien base there's 3 batches of chrysalids waiting for chew on my squad's entrails. Ended up doing a lot of save-scumming and hated myself for doing it. Still... it's quite a learning experience because even continual reload-and-save won't automatically win the encounter. You ran out of rockets and frag gernades eveuntually. What really helps was two snipers on overwatch and head-shot on cool down. That'll gurantee to take down 1-2 chrysalids. You have to get up close and personal with the remaining chrysalids and pray you take it down in one turn.

Anyways here's a question: As long as I don't research hyper-space relay... I'll have infinite amount of time to do whatever I want? I'll like to get plasma weapons up, build more relays, get better interceptors and play around a bit when I have this breathing room.

Also In the Let's play that I've watched... People's Armor color can be changed. Do I have to buy it, or is that something you need to do to unlock the option?
Last edited by Nylonathatep on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:22 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:02 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote: As long as I don't research hyper-space relay... I'll have infinite amount of time to do whatever I want?

I'm noticing that abduction missions will pop up once a month still, so knocking panic down 2 in one country, and increasing it by 1 or 2 in two others means eventually you'll have too much panic on your hands. I have satellites up in every country now, and am not actually finding many UFOs, so, I think the game intentionally time crunches you.

Also, evidently your rating at the end is based on how quickly you win.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby ArgonV » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:55 pm UTC

Has anyone had famous people join their squad, due to the random names? I got a Dutch recruit named Jan Mulder. 'Jan' and 'Mulder' are pretty common names over here, so it was completely random, but still funny. He also promoted to the Assault class, fitting for a former striker

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby A duck » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:21 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:
Also In the Let's play that I've watched... People's Armor color can be changed. Do I have to buy it, or is that something you need to do to unlock the option?


It's a pre-order dlc, but can be purchased for a couple of pounds now.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Jack21222 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:56 am UTC

ArgonV wrote:Has anyone had famous people join their squad, due to the random names? I got a Dutch recruit named Jan Mulder. 'Jan' and 'Mulder' are pretty common names over here, so it was completely random, but still funny. He also promoted to the Assault class, fitting for a former striker


Somebody claims to have gotten a Ben Croshaw from Australia. Nickname wound up being Yahtzee.

Picture here: http://fullyramblomatic-yahtzee.blogspot.com/
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:03 am UTC

So... so far, only 1 player has beaten XCOM on impossible ironman. Wonder how many attempts it took.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Yoshisummons » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:14 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:So... so far, only 1 player has beaten XCOM on impossible Ironman. Wonder how many attempts it took.

No bloody wonder I haven't been able to get to even the first terror mission without wiping.

In fact this morning I had three rookies in full cover each of them get one-shotted one after the other in two turns. I would say there is a stark difference between winning due to good decision making and throwing your hands up into the air yelling "Take the reigns Jesus!."

I am more curious as to which species of alien everyone hates the most. I constantly hear crysalids but I never had trouble with them, but man screw mutons :evil:.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:52 pm UTC

Rebalancing mod that seems pretty cool:

http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/18

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby ArgonV » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:48 pm UTC

Yoshisummons wrote:I am more curious as to which species of alien everyone hates the most. I constantly hear crysalids but I never had trouble with them, but man screw mutons :evil:.


Sectopods. Duuh

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:45 am UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Yoshisummons wrote:I am more curious as to which species of alien everyone hates the most. I constantly hear crysalids but I never had trouble with them, but man screw mutons :evil:.


Sectopods. Duuh


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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:24 pm UTC

I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission. I don't think I ever had a mission with more than one sectopod, but I could be mistaken.

Chrysalids were hell though because they zerg rush you. And in my first few playthroughs, I hadn't researched enough armour or weapons. If I blundered into a pack of them too close, they would slaughter my dudes every time. And then I would have to kill my own dudes all over again because they turned into zombies which hit bloody hard. I had more luck if I spotted them from far away, of course, but really... fuck those guys. Sectopods were easy by comparison because there was one of them, and they presented a large target. I seem to remember getting good hit probabilities against them. A couple of snipers with double tap = dead sectopod.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby BlackSails » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:36 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Yoshisummons wrote:I am more curious as to which species of alien everyone hates the most. I constantly hear crysalids but I never had trouble with them, but man screw mutons :evil:.


Sectopods. Duuh


Double tap sniper or HEAT heavy with double fire > sectopods.

My best sniper murdered the first sectopod before he could act.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:12 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission.


uh

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:20 pm UTC

That's on impossible, but you had better have a heavy with those upgraded rocket things (I never downed a battleship, sadly) to take em out.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:15 pm UTC

My general impression of the Firaxis game is that it's a lot more obvious about being a game and about engineering the experiences the designers thought you should have, compared to the original, which was more of a simulation, and naturally generated emergent experiences.

An example is the abduction missions in the new game - straight up "Here are three options, here's the direct reward for each, and the others will raise panic across their continents. Choose one and only one." Sure, there were choices in the original that came to much the same thing - until you got better radar coverage, you could send interceptors to patrol more remote territories, or you could accept creeping alien influence while you focused on your home territories, and whichever territories you focused on rewarded you (with increased funding that you could use to acquire/support more technicians and scientists), but it was all a matter of balancing degrees of exposure and investment, and never a straight up pass/fail/fail triple - you could always try to do everything (or, in the long run, put yourself in a position to do everything). It's a similar outcome, but made explicit and direct, and without the option for player skill to influence the precise outcome.

The general feeling I get is that the Firaxis version was over-designed and under-tested relative to the original. For me, it's hard to immerse myself in the experience because it keeps reminding me that it's deliberately scripted rather than emerging naturally.

***

As for what aliens get up to before you uncover them, my understanding is that most enemy groups camp out in start positions until something triggers them, but most maps also have a couple of patrolling groups that can encounter you unexpectedly. And once an enemy is active, one of their options is to go look for reinforcements.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:17 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission.


uh

Nooooooooooooooooooooopenopenopenope.
rmsgrey wrote:The general feeling I get is that the Firaxis version was over-designed and under-tested relative to the original. For me, it's hard to immerse myself in the experience because it keeps reminding me that it's deliberately scripted rather than emerging naturally.

I totally agree with this statement; I don't think I have any interest in playing another run through.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby ArgonV » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:16 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission.


uh

Those aren't Sectopods, those are Cyberdiscs :wink:

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Shivahn » Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:04 am UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission.


uh

Those aren't Sectopods, those are Cyberdiscs :wink:

No, that is a cyberdisc, four drones, two sectopods and a chryssalid. Because fuck you.

Also, I would scream with delight if I ran into that, but mostly because last time I ran into anything similar I had dudes with blaster bomb HEAT rockets with large explosions.

If I didn't I would probably retreat. Have fun with that, Beijing!

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ryom » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:41 am UTC

My favorite is missing four 95% chance to hit shots in a row. "I can't miss!"... your entire team is now dead. :?

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:53 am UTC

So I just beat the game on normal.

By the end I was running a mundane sniper colonel (all the way from the start), a mundane assault colonel (first mission was my second), two mundane heavy colonels, a mundane support colonel, an a second, psi, sniper colonel, all with maxed out weapons and armor. I had no more research to do, nothing more to build, was rolling in money, and hadn't taken a loss since the base assault.

But fucking ethereals. Jesus those guys are terrible - there is no HEAT ammo for ethereals.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby A duck » Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:16 am UTC

Ethereals can't reflect rockets though. A few blaster launchers will take care of them.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:21 pm UTC

But I need the rockets for the sectopods!
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:59 pm UTC

Mind control an elite muton and let it play with your skinny friend?

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:00 pm UTC

I lost a whole squad.

Classic difficulty (and ironman, for autosaves and difficulty) with the Warspace Extension mod.

Basically a screwed up breach - five mutons. First thing they did was launch a grenade, destroy all my cover, and completely destroyed all of my squad.
Last edited by Ralith The Third on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:06 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:09 pm UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:I lost a whole squad.

Classic difficulty (and ironman, for autosaves and difficulty) with the Warspace Extension mod.

Basically a screwed up breach - five mutons. First thing they did was launch a grenade, destroy all my cover, and rape all of my squad.



This led to my taking in a full squad of rookies the next mission.

Guess what.

The correct response to your squadmate getting shot IS NOT TO SHOOT HIM AGAIN, KILL HIM, AND CAUSE THE REST OF THE SQUAD TO SHOOT EACH OTHER AND OR RUN INTO THE OPEN.

GODDAMNIT, YOU ALL AREN'T DORFS.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:17 pm UTC

You'd think that XCOM would be able to recruit like, ex-SEALs, Spetznaz, Ghurkas, MI5, and so on. They shouldn't panic so easily.

Also I want to see who would win; Ghurka or Chrysalid.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:27 pm UTC

You'd think that as the *only* line of defence against alien invasion, XCOM would get some actual funding without me bringing up CE or some shit.

You'd also think that they'd have more than six squad members in a given operation. And multiple squads for multiple simultaneous operations.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:01 am UTC

That's kinda why I liked Apoc, if only they hadn't screwed it up so much. It's a small city with various factions, not all of them even agreeing that we should be attempting to fight the alien menace. Some are trying to fund their own inadequate responses, while the elite of society doesn't seem to care so long as they get their luxury goods. Damage to the city has consequences, and while towards the end of the game XCOM makes up ALL of the funding, the funding itself is just what 1 city can produce, especially when it's limited by having to rebuild constantly.

The politics were sadly not fleshed out as intended, night-missions weren't implemented, ground vehicles were entirely useless because they died with the road, many items were completely worthless, certain research-critical ships didn't spawn after a certain point, the aliens were goofy instead of scary, psionics was limited, the retro-feel was meh at best, etc.


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