X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

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Ralith The Third
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:53 am UTC

I lost four more but two survived and were promoted. Then I lost none.

Also, Apoc sounds cool in theory - though from what you say, meh.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:02 pm UTC

In Apocalypse, once you get the (infinite ammo) dimensional weapons (whatever they're called) it becomes a viable tactic (when you don't care about the building's owner) to stand out in the open somewhere and systematically demolish the support structures with weapons fire until the building collapses, killing any aliens inside (or at least dropping them out of cover).

The prolonged endgame's also a little dreary - once you take out the aliens' ability to grow more UFOs and shoot down their current (highly limited) supply, they lose all ability to do anything other than wait in their buildings for your squad to get around to assaulting and demolishing them...

The real killer of the game for me, though, is its depressing habit of crashing on modern PCs (Interceptor is even worse for that...)

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Christophoros » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:46 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission. I don't think I ever had a mission with more than one sectopod, but I could be mistaken.

I am aware that other people have already refuted this, but given an experience I had last week I just had to chip in.

Impossible difficulty - went into what was supposed to be a run-of-the-mill terror mission. Obviously I was expecting chryssalids out the wazoo. No. I got 5 Sectopods. Nothing else, just 5 Sectopods (+ drones, obviously).

Yeah...
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:46 pm UTC

If the aliens were smart they would have nothing but ethereals and sectopods. 4 ethereals and 3 sectopods, all together. Why? Because fuck you that's why. I understand that ethereals may be the lone ruling race, but all the others are cloned or manufactured or both. They could clone nothing but sectoid commanders and mass produce sectopods.

Meh, I wish sectopods had the original weakness to laser weapons, if only to give you a reason to carry pistols.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:If the aliens were smart


They would fire on your troops with their ships? Or intercept your Skyranger or something... Or attack from behind you...

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:58 pm UTC

If they were smart, they wouldn't bother with trying to irritate humans into evolving - they'd just go straight to the "bombard planet with asteroids until all "higher" life-forms are wiped out" and try again with a species less likely to wipe them out in retaliation...

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:03 am UTC

Christophoros wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I don't tend to worry about sectopods too much because there tend to only be one of them per mission. I don't think I ever had a mission with more than one sectopod, but I could be mistaken.

I am aware that other people have already refuted this, but given an experience I had last week I just had to chip in.

Impossible difficulty - went into what was supposed to be a run-of-the-mill terror mission. Obviously I was expecting chryssalids out the wazoo. No. I got 5 Sectopods. Nothing else, just 5 Sectopods (+ drones, obviously).

Yeah...


I had three sectopods in a mission once.

Of course, my entire skilled squad had been killed, including both Major-rank Heavies with HEAT Ammo.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:44 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:If the aliens were smart


They would fire on your troops with their ships? Or intercept your Skyranger or something... Or attack from behind you...


The skyranger only goes out after the alien craft has been shot down. It's assumed that the alien ships have had their weapons disabled in the crash.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby BlackSails » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:46 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:If the aliens were smart


They would fire on your troops with their ships? Or intercept your Skyranger or something... Or attack from behind you...


The skyranger only goes out after the alien craft has been shot down. It's assumed that the alien ships have had their weapons disabled in the crash.


And what, the aliens are incapable of sending a ship to intercept it?

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby ElWanderer » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:46 am UTC

My wife bought me the new XCOM for Christmas. I'm about 20 hours in.

Compared to the originals, early casualties were very, very light, which surprised me. I don't know if I was just lucky, or experienced enough to use cover and play cautiously from the off. I had about twenty missions in a row where I didn't lose anyone. Then I met elite mutons and ethereals for the first time. After two missions I had lost a colonel and lieutenant and had almost every experienced soldier injured or in the psi lab (does it warn you they won't be available for missions?). For the next alien abduction, I had to send a team with two officers, a squaddie and three rookies. That was more like it!

I always seem to be short of cash. There are lots of things I'd love to research or build, but I can't afford them. It's weird not being able to use the spare engineers to build stuff to sell for profit. I guess I needed to prioritise satellites more. At one point I found that I'd built one but forgotten to launch it. Gah.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:12 pm UTC

ElWanderer wrote:My wife bought me the new XCOM for Christmas. I'm about 20 hours in.

Compared to the originals, early casualties were very, very light, which surprised me. I don't know if I was just lucky, or experienced enough to use cover and play cautiously from the off. I had about twenty missions in a row where I didn't lose anyone. Then I met elite mutons and ethereals for the first time. After two missions I had lost a colonel and lieutenant and had almost every experienced soldier injured or in the psi lab (does it warn you they won't be available for missions?). For the next alien abduction, I had to send a team with two officers, a squaddie and three rookies. That was more like it!

I always seem to be short of cash. There are lots of things I'd love to research or build, but I can't afford them. It's weird not being able to use the spare engineers to build stuff to sell for profit. I guess I needed to prioritise satellites more. At one point I found that I'd built one but forgotten to launch it. Gah.


Yeah, the smaller squad size means every loss is more significant, so attrition is slower. There's scope for a trade-off between taking one rookie with your top squad on most missions so you have a cadre of experienced men for when the squad gets massacred and being more likely to get massacred because the rookie is so vulnerable.

Launching satellites is vital - my first game was lost to spiralling panic and chronic shortage of money; my second, while there was an early pinch getting the satellites going, once I had enough in orbit, the problem became more one of finding new things to spend my resources on than one of finding the resources to spend (well, weapon fragments were a limiting factor for some things)

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby ElWanderer » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:26 pm UTC

Ouch. I knew that going from a maxed-out squad on normal to a new game on classic would be a step up, but I wasn't expecting a total party kill in the first mission, with panicked troops shooting eachother rather than aliens. On my next go, I'm slowly building up a squad, but it's taking me ages to complete each mission. Yesterday it took me almost an hour and a half to shoot four aliens (second half of a downed UFO mission I'd started the evening before last).

Good news though: an official patch this morning has unlocked the second wave options. Depending on how I go with classic, my next game may be at normal with a load of the 2nd wave stuff enabled.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby A duck » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:49 pm UTC

I found classic tricky at first going from normal because I wasn't using grenades. Simply put, toss grenades everywhere. If they clump up? Grenade. If they stay behind full cover? Grenade. If everyone else has missed their shot on the alien? Grenade.

Aslong as you're at sectoids and floaters iirc on classic, you'll be able to kill them in one grenad, and by the time you reach mutons you should have lasers.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:22 pm UTC

ElWanderer wrote:with panicked troops shooting eachother rather than aliens.


Try this mod http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/18/

it makes the game less bullshit

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Shivahn » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:34 pm UTC

A duck wrote:I found classic tricky at first going from normal because I wasn't using grenades. Simply put, toss grenades everywhere. If they clump up? Grenade. If they stay behind full cover? Grenade. If everyone else has missed their shot on the alien? Grenade.

Aslong as you're at sectoids and floaters iirc on classic, you'll be able to kill them in one grenad, and by the time you reach mutons you should have lasers.

Grenades are useful against mutons and stuff too, just for the cover destruction.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:02 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
ElWanderer wrote:with panicked troops shooting eachother rather than aliens.


Try this mod http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/18/

it makes the game less bullshit


Yeah. Impossible is within the realm of possibility, though last time I played it, I limped along with recruits dying before progressing until I gave up, after my A-squad died.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby ElWanderer » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:52 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
ElWanderer wrote:with panicked troops shooting eachother rather than aliens.


Try this mod http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/18/

it makes the game less bullshit

Crikey, that includes a lot of changes. I like the sound of some, but probably not all.

Meanwhile, my graphics card (of 2005 vintage) has decided that the game is actually too much for it (running very hot, causing long hangs). So has the identical card I swapped in for it. So now I'm waiting for a new card to arrive before I can continue Operation Uncertain Death (well, actually Unceasing Calm in the game).

I keep finding myself out of grenade range initially and scared to advance into a hail of overwatch fire the next turn; aliens keep doing their "oooh, puny humans" dance then moving back out of my sight range to find cover. At one point I hit the area they'd disappeared into with a rocket, but no joy. Carefully advancing into a flanking position runs the risk of triggering another group. Oh well, my squad is improving which should help matters.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby setzer777 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:22 pm UTC

Just started playing this game, and my god it is fun. It's some of the most lethal turn-based combat I've ever seen.

Question: do soldiers get their specialty at random? I've been getting a lot of snipers and very few assaults.

Also, is it possible to extend the game indefinitely, or will countries inevitably pull out if you don't complete story missions?
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:31 pm UTC

I just started playing last week as well. Decided to start on easy, because this sort of tactical gameplay isn't my forte at all. After I beat it I'm gonna try a harder difficulty.

I'm certain the specialties are random. For a while every rookie-turned-squaddie came out as support. I think I have 5 or 6 of those now. Only two snipers.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Eseell » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:14 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:Also, is it possible to extend the game indefinitely, or will countries inevitably pull out if you don't complete story missions?

Things will gradually get worse if you keep playing without progressing the story. When you complete certain events, the panic level goes down all over the world.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby DaBigCheez » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:16 pm UTC

setzer777 wrote:Just started playing this game, and my god it is fun. It's some of the most lethal turn-based combat I've ever seen.

Question: do soldiers get their specialty at random? I've been getting a lot of snipers and very few assaults.

Also, is it possible to extend the game indefinitely, or will countries inevitably pull out if you don't complete story missions?

Just started playing again after a several-month hiatus, doing a Classic Ironman run. Had several false starts, but going strong now. Still lose a high-ranking soldier every now and then (either to stupid things like rocket blast radius not displaying properly on hovering targets, or to things like "entire squad misses an 80% hit chance on one no-cover, 1hp muton, who then turns around and gets a crit on someone in full cover and kills them instantly", or to different kinds of stupidity like "oh right, maybe having my last soldier double-move into unrevealed territory with only half cover on only one angle isn't a great idea, as this cyberdisc and triple-muton pack will be glad to inform me"), but it's going well overall.
Spoiler:
Spend a lot of time dilly-dallying about before raiding the alien base, getting everything researched, getting my base built up, etc. I just launched the last satellites for full coverage of the globe and raided the alien base, with my soldiers fully kitted out in Titan armor and plasma weapons (except the snipers, who are still making do with Carapace until I can scrounge up more alloys and research Archangel). I now have every country on the map covered, and after the base raid, only one country isn't on panic level 1. You're killing me here, Egypt (panic level 2). My monthly income is obscene. Of course, the only enemies that have yet to show up and aren't storyline-keyed are Muton Elites and Sectopods, but that doesn't change how good it felt to have my In the Zone plasma-equipped sniper take out three Chryssalids, a Berserker, two Drones, and a Muton in a single turn during the base assault.


Soldier specialties: It seems like the first set of 4 rookies (that you get on your starter mission) are hard-coded to give one each of the four classes; after that, it appears to be random. That said, I did have this odd behavior on my second mission; the first mission, I got my Assault/Support/Heavy promotions, but the fourth rookie didn't get a kill so I had no Sniper. After the second mission, in which each of the four Rookies I brought along grenaded a single sectoid, every single rookie got promoted to a Sniper. It may have just been random chance, or it may have been the first-four-soldiers hardcoding kicking in simultaneously instead of sequentially, or something. Didn't lack for replacement Snipers, though!

I can attest that enemies will continue getting tougher as time goes on - it's not keyed to the story, with the exceptions of two specific alien types. In general, yes, countries will pull out on you, esp. on Classic or Impossible where the panic levels just don't match up (e.g. for abduction missions, "panic goes down by 3 in the specific country you protected, and then goes up by 2 in every country on the two continents you didn't"), however, there is a little trick to this:
Spoiler:
Abduction missions will only land where you have no satellite coverage. If you have full satellite coverage over all but one continent, abduction missions will always land on that continent - since there's no panic rise in the continent where the Abduction country is located, this makes the "panic clock" a lot easier to deal with. I'm not 100% sure whether abduction missions stop entirely if you have full satellite coverage (not 100% desirable, as they're a good place to train up new soldiers), or whether they start just ignoring sat coverage and landing everywhere again. In any event, you still have UFOs and terror missions to deal with, but those don't cause global panic increases.

The only ways to reduce panic are launching satellites, completing certain storyline objectives, defending against an abduction attempt in that specific country, or doing well against a terror mission on that continent. If you *fail* a terror mission, or don't respond to one, that country will leave outright, without even waiting for the Council report.

Side note: Squadsight is amazing. Never, ever get Snap Shot over Squadsight on your snipers, unless low-ranked snipers are literally all you have left and you have to do a mission before new soldiers can arrive, or something. Squadsight lets them actually *snipe*, instead of being a crappy Heavy with no rockets/Support with no mobility or supportive skills. (Except Disabling Shot, I suppose.) It is absolute heaven when you have two well-equipped snipers and get, say, a nice, long, linear bridge map...
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby setzer777 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:46 pm UTC

Yeah, squadsight snipers are pretty awesome. Though it is annoying when you get a crowded map with no high ground.

I haven't looked closely enough at my post-mission loot to tell, but is it worth it to try to get live captures of species you've already interrogated?
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Eseell » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:59 pm UTC

Sometimes. If you capture them alive then you get to keep their guns, which can be valuable with plasma weapons.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby pseudoidiot » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:30 pm UTC

Maybe I'm just unlucky on the maps I recently played, but I'm really not sold on squadsight. My first sniper I gave the other option so I could move/shoot or move/overwatch. He got injured recently, so I had to take my other sniper on 3 missions.

That sniper has squad-sight and I just didn't feel like I got much use out of it. There were way more instances where I would've been able to make a single-move to be able to shoot something than when I could stay still and actually had a valid shot on an enemy in another squadmate's vision.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby DaBigCheez » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:59 pm UTC

My main thing with that is that, with Gunslinger, the sniper's pistol is about as powerful as a regular Rifle (albeit not sniper rifle) of equivalent tech level anyway - so if you need to move-and-shoot, use that! Then you can keep them out of harm's way and rain pinpoint-accurate death from afar, so you don't often *need* to move and take the Aim penalty, rather than being forced to move into range, find new cover, etc. every time.
Spoiler:
It also is a big help once you get Skeleton Suit or Archangel Armor. A lot of the high places you're able to get to (or just hovering in midair) have no cover whatsoever - they can be great vantage points giving vision of most of the map, and in the case of Archangel you don't even need pre-existing terrain, but you'll get murdered if you try and do that in range of the enemy.

On most of my maps my snipers probably wind up with at least half the kills; I'll grant that Squadsight is generally less useful on things like UFO Assault missions where a lot of the baddies are inside, though.

And yeah, live captures get you free guns/grenades, but if you've already got the guns of that type you need, it's just a riskier way to take them down. Although, hypothetically, if your last active soldier staring down a 1-hp Muton was a Heavy wielding a gun with no ammo, but with a charge left on their arcthrower...
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:20 pm UTC

... you'd use your grenade.

You do carry grenades, right? They're infinitely useful at bullshit prevention.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby DaBigCheez » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:13 am UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:... you'd use your grenade.

You do carry grenades, right? They're infinitely useful at bullshit prevention.

In the hypothetical they've already used their rockets and any grenade they may be carrying. :P (Or, rather, in the hypothetical the Heavy is carrying an arc thrower rather than a grenade.)

I make no claims as to whether this is a good idea, merely that it's a situation I can think of where using an arc thrower for a reason other than getting a captive or their weapons might not be totally useless.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:00 am UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:other than getting a captive or their weapons might not be totally useless.


"Buttfuckistan requires 542 plasma rifles"

Then only use for a late-game thrower I can think of.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby setzer777 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:51 pm UTC

Ugh, decided to start a new game after I ran into 3 sectopods (first encounter with sectopods) on a downed UFO. They destroyed all my best people. I think I'd also sold far too many alloys before realizing how many I'd need (I thought since I had like 150 I could afford to sell a lot of them).
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Ralith The Third » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

Never sell alloys.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:04 pm UTC

Floater, sectoid, and I forget which other corpses can be turned into single-use upgrades for your craft. You won't need that many of them; better off to disengage and repair, sending out another craft instead. The only use for them would be for when you want to take down the battleship (I haven't played in a while but I never downed the ship; sad, because supposedly it allows you to upgrade your heavies' rockets).

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:30 pm UTC

It does, and EMP cannons will completely tear it a new one. :)
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Metaphysician » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:55 am UTC

I'm on my first playthrough of Enemy Unknown and having no experience with the series I decided to play on easy and... it's still hard. I had no idea in the beginning how long sats took to build, and so I ended up with tons of panicked countries and little income in month three, month three and four both saw a country leave my coalition... things were looking grim. Around the beginning on month three I started putting most of my money into uplinks and sats trying to do damage control and thankfully it worked. I just finished month six and got back up to an A rating. Thankfully I am really good at the tactical combat aspect of the game.I have sats over all but one country now, better fighters over almost all the continents as well. I am falling a little behind the aliens in tech now though and it's seeing more squad members get injured (though I've only lost a couple squad members). The game is amazing and I am looking forward to the insanity that the higher difficulties must be.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:55 pm UTC

See a sectopod yet? Higher difficulties will have more of them. With higher health and accuracy of course. One guy here had mission with 5 of them. No other buggers, just 5 sectopods.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Metaphysician » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:12 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:See a sectopod yet? Higher difficulties will have more of them. With higher health and accuracy of course. One guy here had mission with 5 of them. No other buggers, just 5 sectopods.


Haven't encountered one yet, I did my first alien base assault mission a couple days ago and got annihilated by Chrysalids that came out of nowhere and just destroyed one of my Colonels.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:24 am UTC

Metaphysician wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:See a sectopod yet? Higher difficulties will have more of them. With higher health and accuracy of course. One guy here had mission with 5 of them. No other buggers, just 5 sectopods.


Haven't encountered one yet, I did my first alien base assault mission a couple days ago and got annihilated by Chrysalids that came out of nowhere and just destroyed one of my Colonels.


One of the things the new game got horribly right was keeping Chrysalids scary - you can take them out, but you need to focus on it - and not doing so means getting overrun by several as they turn your men (and any nearby civilians)

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

When you do encounter one, be sure that you have a heavy with HEAT ammo. A sniper with disabling shot also works wonders. As does assault with combat reflexes and the double shot thing.

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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby setzer777 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:25 pm UTC

Can it be feasible to skip over beam weapons and jump straight to plasma?
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Eseell » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:50 pm UTC

Yes, that's essentially what I did. I did research laser, but I didn't build many of them at all.
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Re: X-Com: UFO Defense / UFO: Enemy Unknown

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:21 am UTC

setzer777 wrote:Can it be feasible to skip over beam weapons and jump straight to plasma?


Yes, especially if you capture many light plasma rifles.


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