The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:41 pm UTC

yes, you have to hold down the shout button longer. Your character will shout two words. If you just click it once, he/she only shouts one word and you get the original affect. The cooldown will go into effect (and take longer) if you hold it down to use a second or third word.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:41 pm UTC

Obby wrote:When you hold down the button to activate the shout, instead of just pressing it, you activate the second word (or the third if you have it unlocked and hold it long enough) and the longer cooldown.

Or shorter, in the case of Throw Voice.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:04 pm UTC

An Enraged Platypus wrote:Sweet deity of your choice, the animation for conjuring dual swords is a work of art.


Yea, just watch out for the dual-casting conjuration perk, if you're not careful, you'll get one sword instead of two and have to cast again with your off hand to get another one, which can be annoying.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby nehpest » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:00 pm UTC

An Enraged Platypus wrote:Sweet deity of your choice, the animation for conjuring dual swords is a work of art.

Youtube and I agree.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:36 am UTC

Two words: Dremora Pirate.

With a song.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Weeks » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:17 am UTC

So...I'm doing the Destruction Ritual Spell quest. It's the first non-obvious riddle I've found in the game.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:52 pm UTC

OK, explain this to me. Glass bow is worth 800. Glass bow with fire damage - 684.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby legopelle » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:56 pm UTC

emceng wrote:OK, explain this to me. Glass bow is worth 800. Glass bow with fire damage - 684.

There's a bug where high-level enchanting results in less valuable items then low-level. But I haven't heard about making it less valuable then vanilla.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:41 pm UTC

Conjured weapons are the best thing ever. So satisfying pulling two swords out of thin air to finish off a dragon in a hurricane of blows.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:42 pm UTC

It's fun, but is there anything to give bound weapons anything like the same kinds of improvements that improved smithed ones have?

I mean, sure, I was at maybe level 15 this playthrough when I got the perk that makes bound swords equivalent to the base damage on a Daedric sword, which are impossible to find or make until rather further into the game, so I probably shouldn't worry about it too much...
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Dason » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:46 pm UTC

I've never taken the conjuring route when it comes to armor and weapons. What advantages are there to conjuring these things instead of using actual equipment?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Koa » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:51 pm UTC

Weightlessness, the relevant perks, and the awesome factor. That's about it.
Last edited by Koa on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Shivahn » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:52 pm UTC

Dason wrote:I've never taken the conjuring route when it comes to armor and weapons. What advantages are there to conjuring these things instead of using actual equipment?

Well, free arrows with bows, they're as good as glass/ebony ish weapons in terms of damage if you get the perk, they weigh nothing, and you can get perks that cast soul trap and banish on strike, both of which are pretty awesome. And they look cool.

But yeah, they're not really super advantageous. I wish they'd made them upgradeable through perks to a well-smithed daedric enchanted weapon or something.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Box Boy » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:25 pm UTC

My main problem with Conjured weapons is that it means I can't dual wield my scimitars if I use them.


I really like my scimitars.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Jahoclave » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:26 pm UTC

I'm beginning to think bears have super sense. Yet another failed attempt to sneak up on those bastards. I WILL GET YOU BEAR!

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Koa » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:40 pm UTC

I've snuck up on a few bears. It turns out that they're all female.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:39 pm UTC

Koa wrote:Weightlessness, the relevant perks, and the awesome factor. That's about it.

Though you can also get weightless Armour through the Heavy perk tree. Really useful.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:29 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:My main problem with Conjured weapons is that it means I can't dual wield my scimitars if I use them.


I really like my scimitars.

Are you a drow dark elf, by chance?

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:32 pm UTC

legopelle wrote:
emceng wrote:OK, explain this to me. Glass bow is worth 800. Glass bow with fire damage - 684.

There's a bug where high-level enchanting results in less valuable items then low-level. But I haven't heard about making it less valuable then vanilla.

Often times quicksaving then reloading, or exiting the game and coming back in will rejigger the values, making a Glass Bow 800 and a Glass Bow with Fire Damage 1289 or whatever it should be.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Box Boy » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:45 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:Are you a drow dark elf, by chance?
Imperial styled after Aladdin, actually.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:07 am UTC

Staff of Magnus in right hand. Staff of Paralysis in left.

What was that, Estormo?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby IcedT » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:11 am UTC

Box Boy wrote:My main problem with Conjured weapons is that it means I can't dual wield my scimitars if I use them.


I really like my scimitars.

Where can you find those, other than on Alik'r?

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby WarDaft » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:16 am UTC

Funny how an iron dagger (made with stolen iron) and the soul of a bunny rabbit (stored in a stolen soulgem) can make a dagger with a value of over 500 (enchant health stealing.)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Koa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:22 am UTC

IcedT wrote:
Box Boy wrote:My main problem with Conjured weapons is that it means I can't dual wield my scimitars if I use them.


I really like my scimitars.

Where can you find those, other than on Alik'r?

A mod or these places.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Weeks » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:29 am UTC

The master spells...aren't very good. I knew this already, but conveniently forgot.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:09 am UTC

Koa wrote:
IcedT wrote:
Box Boy wrote:My main problem with Conjured weapons is that it means I can't dual wield my scimitars if I use them.


I really like my scimitars.

Where can you find those, other than on Alik'r?

A mod or these places.


That list isn't complete. I forgot the name of it, but if you head on the road under the natural arch solitude is built on heading north, and follow it round, eventually you come across a shipwreck which, when I got there at least, was filled with pirates who all had scimitars.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Koa » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:31 am UTC

If you find something that it doesn't have then add it to the page. It's a wiki, after all.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Shivahn » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:48 am UTC

WarDaft wrote:Funny how an iron dagger (made with stolen iron) and the soul of a bunny rabbit (stored in a stolen soulgem) can make a dagger with a value of over 500 (enchant health stealing.)

Ohhhh just wait until you get banish.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:04 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:It's fun, but is there anything to give bound weapons anything like the same kinds of improvements that improved smithed ones have?

I mean, sure, I was at maybe level 15 this playthrough when I got the perk that makes bound swords equivalent to the base damage on a Daedric sword, which are impossible to find or make until rather further into the game, so I probably shouldn't worry about it too much...


No, but in a way I like that. On my first uber-levelled character combat didn't feel all that epic when I had a bow for 100 base damage, infinite potions of double bow damage, 100 damage poisons, double bow damage enchanted onto my gear, 30 fire damage on hit, and 100 stealth. Even if the enemy survived the first hit, there was a 65% chance it would be in some way incapacitated. I like combat when you walk around a corner and think "Sweet jumping Jesus, how am I going to kill that Dwarven Centurion with a Steel Mace?" and are pleasantly surprised by victory.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Kain » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:33 pm UTC

An Enraged Platypus wrote: I like combat when you walk around a corner and think "Sweet jumping Jesus, how am I going to kill that Dwarven Centurion with a Steel Mace?" and are pleasantly surprised by victory.


I concur with that sentiment: in my first play-through, I eventually got to the point where my resistances pretty much let me tank everything, and was working on finishing my godkiller bow when I got tired of it and just finished the game. The most fun I had in that play-through? A tossup between getting lost trying to find the wizards college at level 5, getting chased by some snow sabre cats, and being saved by a wandering bard, and the first time I encountered a Dwarven Centurion and had to take it out with flames (my only ranged attack at the time).
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:40 pm UTC

Incidentally, DR from armor is capped at 80%, which according to the formula I found means four pieces of armor that show a displayed total (including all perks and such) of 566 is the most you need. So for example continuing to improve armor so the displayed total is twice that, like I did on my first playthrough, is actually superfluous.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby big boss » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:14 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Incidentally, DR from armor is capped at 80%, which according to the formula I found means four pieces of armor that show a displayed total (including all perks and such) of 566 is the most you need. So for example continuing to improve armor so the displayed total is twice that, like I did on my first playthrough, is actually superfluous.


Its kinda sad how easy it is to hit the armor cap too. You only need to put 3 or 4 points into heavy armor to reach it if your wearing daedric armor, for the light armors your going need a few more skills points or that 1 stone with the 100 bonus armor but is still an easy cap to hit.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby yurell » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:15 am UTC

I just watched a sabre cat kill an elder dragon. This makes me worried for the viability of human habitation of Skyrim even after the apocalypse has been dealt with.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:01 am UTC

yurell wrote:I just watched a sabre cat kill an elder dragon. This makes me worried for the viability of human habitation of Skyrim even after the apocalypse has been dealt with.
Yeah, I've got to say that the way dragons behave in Skyrim mechanically leaves a lot to be desired, but as it seems like a necessary result of the story they wanted to tell I don't fault them too much for it.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby yurell » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:21 am UTC

I don't think the problem in that case is so much the dragons as it is the animals. They let the animals level up too far — while in Morrowind you had a sense of scaling as you got objectively better than these fairly common foes, the animals in Skyrim actually get harder to face as you level up. You can still make them a challenge that scales (e.g. half your level plus a constant), but they scale too far. When you successfully fight off three dragons at once, you feel epic. That illusion is thrown to tatters when you realise you'd rather fight them than a bear.

I love the feel of the game, it had the sort of epic scale of Morrowind, and while it had its many flaws (only uses 2GB RAM, low res textures, closed cities, bugs & many more), I can say it was a great game. The Roman-esque feel of the Empire was a delicious trip back to the older Elder Scrolls games, rather than Oblivion's medieval setting, although I honestly wish there were more farmland — I can't see how that proportion of land area can support a population that size. I understand that things need to be compressed for mechanics reasons (e.g. can't have 10k NPCs in a city), but that shouldn't change the proportion of land which is inhabited. Little breaches of suspension of disbelief like this annoy me more than some of the more egregious ones.

The animals are one of those little breaches. I can reconcile the bandits ambushing me levelling up with the rationale that they know I'm an important person, and so only the strongest are willing to try for a chance at the huge wealth I must be hoarding. The animals? Why do all bears want to kill me? When I've become the biggest dragonslayer in the world, why can they? Instead of wandering the world like the heroic woman I am, clearing the highways of these bandits, I'm spending my time running in terror through the icy wastes, hoping to the Nine (screw you Thalmor) that I can find a enough obstacles to jump over that I can get away from the inexplicably angry bear.

This issue was really brought to my mind when I made my last post — a sabre cat, an insane, barely surmountable challenge at lvl 5, takes down an elder dragon, supposedly a powerful enemy at lvl 30. And it wasn't because the dragon was stupid (well, okay, landing was stupid, but that's important for gameplay), it was simply because the cat hits harder than a freight train.

Of course, I'm talking about unoptimised (but not badly built) characters — I played a mage, then started again as I realised I stunned with every shot and destruction spells cost no magicka if you build sensibly. When the dragon-killing cat came along, I was a lvl 36 Bosmer archer.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Mumpy » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:36 am UTC

The slow time for power attacks perk has made bears and sabre cats so much more dealable. The Block skill tree is so effective against those big power hitters. It's the ice wraiths that tend to finish me off, I can't seem to ever find them until they start hitting me.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:44 pm UTC

legopelle wrote:
emceng wrote:OK, explain this to me. Glass bow is worth 800. Glass bow with fire damage - 684.

There's a bug where high-level enchanting results in less valuable items then low-level. But I haven't heard about making it less valuable then vanilla.

Value is inversely proportional to the number of enchantment uses. Less uses, more money. As you get higher level enchant, you get more uses out of the same strength enchantment. You want more value, use an enchant with fewer uses. Banish Daedra, whatever it's called, is by far the most expensive because it only gets like 2 uses or so.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:15 pm UTC

Mumpy wrote:The slow time for power attacks perk has made bears and sabre cats so much more dealable. The Block skill tree is so effective against those big power hitters. It's the ice wraiths that tend to finish me off, I can't seem to ever find them until they start hitting me.


I kind of ignored the block tree, though the "knock enemies to the ground when rushing" looks pretty good. I usually have a 1h sword in my right, and a close-wound spell in my left.

yurell wrote:I just watched a sabre cat kill an elder dragon. This makes me worried for the viability of human habitation of Skyrim even after the apocalypse has been dealt with.


The secret is that every True Nord child eats his veggies. Vegetable soups, to be specific. Unlimited power attacks and blocks for 6 minutes...

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Dark567 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:20 pm UTC

Mumpy wrote:The slow time for power attacks perk has made bears and sabre cats so much more dealable. The Block skill tree is so effective against those big power hitters. It's the ice wraiths that tend to finish me off, I can't seem to ever find them until they start hitting me.
Ice wraiths are the one time I use my destruction magic. I just try to flame everything until they die.

On blocking, its pretty awesome with shield bash perk. Particularly if you have found the Spellbreaker shield which blocks both physical attacks and magic. For that matter:
Spoiler:
It makes dragons a joke, because it completely absorbs breath attacks.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:22 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I kind of ignored the block tree, though the "knock enemies to the ground when rushing" looks pretty good. I usually have a 1h sword in my right, and a close-wound spell in my left.
Yeah, I may just cheat myself the block tree at some point just to play around with it, since I'm ignoring it this time just like on my first playthrough.

After grinding up Illusion enough, my current m.o. is to have invisibility in one hand and a bound sword in the other. If you think the dual-sword-conjuring animation is awesome, you have got to see the throat-slitting-with-a-magical-glowing-sword-while-suddenly-rappearing-behind-the-victim-in-assassin-armor one.
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