Magicka

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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uncivlengr
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Re: Magicka

Postby uncivlengr » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:40 pm UTC

guyy wrote:It only saves at the end of each very long level. There's (sparse) checkpoints, but they're only for respawning; if you quit the game, it's back to the start of the level with you.
This is annoying in any game, but yeah, THIS. Why do they do that? It only makes me less likely to want to boot up the game and play for a bit, because I know I need to invest a solid amount of uninterupted time to progress.

If anyone's looking to try multiplayer, I'd be up for it... Steam name is the same.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Scuttlemutt » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:50 pm UTC

I'm interested in trying multiplayer too. :O Despite hearing about all of the bugs, I still want to give it a try.

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Re: Magicka

Postby el_loco_avs » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:14 pm UTC

I've had a bunch of crashes to desktop in multiplayer :(


and some of the b ossfights are ridiculous in multiplayer
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Re: Magicka

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:57 pm UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:This game is hilarious.

Need people to play with though.

Yeah, that seems to be the only reason I would get it. Some sort of fun, Oh me yarm WTF ARE YOU DOING!

uncivlengr wrote:
guyy wrote:It only saves at the end of each very long level. There's (sparse) checkpoints, but they're only for respawning; if you quit the game, it's back to the start of the level with you.
This is annoying in any game, but yeah, THIS. Why do they do that? It only makes me less likely to want to boot up the game and play for a bit, because I know I need to invest a solid amount of uninterupted time to progress.

If anyone's looking to try multiplayer, I'd be up for it... Steam name is the same.

I kind of wonder if there's some programming issues behind that. I've always been interested and I have to wonder if it's not a matter of the amount of coding and the complexity of the coding that would need to go into the game. That said, more checkpoints would always be a plus.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:13 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:I kind of wonder if there's some programming issues behind that. I've always been interested and I have to wonder if it's not a matter of the amount of coding and the complexity of the coding that would need to go into the game. That said, more checkpoints would always be a plus.


Nope, it would be laughably easy. This is a design decision, and a shitty one.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:24 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:I kind of wonder if there's some programming issues behind that. I've always been interested and I have to wonder if it's not a matter of the amount of coding and the complexity of the coding that would need to go into the game. That said, more checkpoints would always be a plus.


Nope, it would be laughably easy. This is a design decision, and a shitty one.

Well then, in that case. Dear Magicka Developers, I award you no cookies. None! You could have had some nice delicious thin mints, but no. You had your chance and you blew it.

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Re: Magicka

Postby uncivlengr » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:24 am UTC

yeah, the game is as linear as it could be, and the inventory consists of one staff and one melee weapon... hardly a lot of variables to keep track of on a more consistent basis.

Played a few rounds of multiplayer over the weekend with some randoms... reminds me a lot of Alien Swarm, with everyone blasting in all directions, and some players rushing while others lag behind.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Shadic » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:41 am UTC

Anybody posting that they want to play Multiplayer should post their Steam ID!

Mine is HyperShadic. I'm usually online, and should be mostly free for playing. I much prefer to Skype at the same time, as it's more fun if you can actually talk with people.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Toeofdoom » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:55 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:I kind of wonder if there's some programming issues behind that. I've always been interested and I have to wonder if it's not a matter of the amount of coding and the complexity of the coding that would need to go into the game. That said, more checkpoints would always be a plus.

Nope, it would be laughably easy. This is a design decision, and a shitty one.

Well then, in that case. Dear Magicka Developers, I award you no cookies. None! You could have had some nice delicious thin mints, but no. You had your chance and you blew it.

It should be pretty easy, but it's hard to tell exactly. When saving a game part way you may need to save some sort of state information then load it up reliably - otherwise you can just rush to a checkpoint, jump out, reload and suddenly nothing's chasing you. Some checkpoints are in places where it doesn't matter such as zone transfers and they should be easier but not all are like that. Even then you get issues - if it's a multiplayer game and you just grabbed a nice staff then reached a checkpoint... "Hey, let's quit out and reload then go back to get a second staff because it will respawn the monster!"
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Re: Magicka

Postby psion » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:20 am UTC

The levels are scripted with xml files that are easily viewed. At the end of the level is this: <endgame type="LevelComplete" freezeGame="true" delay="7"/>
which tells the magicka exe to unload the level, load the next one, and save. I think all of the scripts would have to be scrapped if they were to have it save at checkpoints. Probably not worth doing while the game is still so unstable.

Oh, and you can edit the xml files to do basically whatever you want with the game -- like give yourself achievements or spells, skip dialogue, or immediately end the level for a 1 second speed run.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:27 am UTC

Toeofdoom wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:I kind of wonder if there's some programming issues behind that. I've always been interested and I have to wonder if it's not a matter of the amount of coding and the complexity of the coding that would need to go into the game. That said, more checkpoints would always be a plus.

Nope, it would be laughably easy. This is a design decision, and a shitty one.

Well then, in that case. Dear Magicka Developers, I award you no cookies. None! You could have had some nice delicious thin mints, but no. You had your chance and you blew it.

It should be pretty easy, but it's hard to tell exactly. When saving a game part way you may need to save some sort of state information then load it up reliably - otherwise you can just rush to a checkpoint, jump out, reload and suddenly nothing's chasing you. Some checkpoints are in places where it doesn't matter such as zone transfers and they should be easier but not all are like that. Even then you get issues - if it's a multiplayer game and you just grabbed a nice staff then reached a checkpoint... "Hey, let's quit out and reload then go back to get a second staff because it will respawn the monster!"

Look, I took away their cookies and they're not getting them back. Finals final.

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Re: Magicka

Postby el_loco_avs » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:12 pm UTC

Freaking yetis man!
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Re: Magicka

Postby el_loco_avs » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:56 pm UTC

Man. Managed to get past those insta-gibbing yeti's only to get WTFPWNED by Fafnir.

Solo is HARD.
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Re: Magicka

Postby uncivlengr » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:18 pm UTC

The crazy thing is, there doesn't seem to be any difficulty scaling between solo and up to four players - not only do you have to heal yourself while attacking, but you can't be revived.

I'm stuck in those ruins in level three on solo, and the only way I ever have close to a fighting chance is if I'm constantly summoning those tree creatures to tank for me, but that only gets me so far.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:49 am UTC

Yeah, there really is no scale. I've pretty much developed the tactic of queuing up a bomb, aoe bombing in the middle and then omgwtfhealing. I think part of my problem is that there's a regulator on how fast you can type things in, which annoys me to no end. I've got enough problems with ten billion goblins.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Rek » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:19 am UTC

A solution to this that at least works some of the time on swarms is to do a Rock personal shield and then when they all swarm you you do a QFSAAA AOE. Usually kills all near you.
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Re: Magicka

Postby el_loco_avs » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:56 pm UTC

qfqfsaa death beam works well. kinda boring to just spam that all the time so sometimes i just mess around if I'm not too far from checkpoints.

That or just shielding and using mines (healmines to overheal the shield , then arcane/fire/whatever mines outside to blast stuff).


Doesn't work at Fafnir though. SO I'm still stuck.
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Re: Magicka

Postby uncivlengr » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:15 pm UTC

Played through what I believe is level 9 through multiplayer, and it's a joke - everything is 'undead', so you spam life beams, life AOEs, life shields... nobody ever comes close to dying.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Nemiro » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:41 am UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:qfqfsaa death beam works well. kinda boring to just spam that all the time so sometimes i just mess around if I'm not too far from checkpoints.

That or just shielding and using mines (healmines to overheal the shield , then arcane/fire/whatever mines outside to blast stuff).


Doesn't work at Fafnir though. SO I'm still stuck.


I teleported up next to him (between his tail and vulnerable belly), and deployed an area shield, which cut through his model, leaving his belly exposed inside the shield. Then I QFSAAA'd him like everything else. I'm on the Assatur fight now, and keep getting blown off the damn platform.
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Re: Magicka

Postby el_loco_avs » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:43 am UTC

Nemiro wrote:
el_loco_avs wrote:qfqfsaa death beam works well. kinda boring to just spam that all the time so sometimes i just mess around if I'm not too far from checkpoints.

That or just shielding and using mines (healmines to overheal the shield , then arcane/fire/whatever mines outside to blast stuff).


Doesn't work at Fafnir though. SO I'm still stuck.


I teleported up next to him (between his tail and vulnerable belly), and deployed an area shield, which cut through his model, leaving his belly exposed inside the shield. Then I QFSAAA'd him like everything else. I'm on the Assatur fight now, and keep getting blown off the damn platform.



Well, I did the teleport thing and ended up behind him and totally out of range of his stronger attacks. Went down easy.
Grimnir after that was easy once I got the corporealize down properly.

Assatur was surprisingly easy. Third try I had him!

Start fight -> move right or left (outside of his hawking hole thingy rangy). Shield shelf. Whenever he attacks do earth+shield self. rest of the time just qfqfsaa him. Went down annoyingly quick.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Mahou » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:24 pm UTC

This game is well worth it in my opinion, as long as you have friends to play it with. The dialog is hilarious, killing your friends is hilarious, the magic is innovative, and the achievements are hilarious. Accidentally blowing my pal off a cliff instead of healing him is well worth the 10 bucks.

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Re: Magicka

Postby MysteryBall » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:24 pm UTC

People are moaning about checkpoints?

This game is easy as it is, let's not make it easier.

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Re: Magicka

Postby psion » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:50 pm UTC

I don't see how having the game save at checkpoints would have any effect on the difficulty.

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Re: Magicka

Postby MysteryBall » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:55 pm UTC

psion wrote:I don't see how having the game save at checkpoints would have any effect on the difficulty.


You die, you go back to the beginning, you have to play through again, death has a consequence.

Meanwhile, you die, you spawn in the previous area, go "Meh" and walk along.

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Re: Magicka

Postby psion » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:18 am UTC

The only thing that has a consequence is closing the game when it doesn't save at checkpoints, and the game closing is an often occurrence with how buggy it is.

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Re: Magicka

Postby TaintedDeity » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:10 am UTC

Yeah, dying having a consequence like 'having to do all that again' doesn't make it harder so much as more annoying.
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Re: Magicka

Postby uncivlengr » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:44 am UTC

Dying setting you back a bit is one thing; it adds to the intensity because you're more invested in staying alive.

Not being able to just stop playing and start up again in the same place is the deal breaker for me; it's not like it makes the game any easier, unless you consider dedicating lengthy amounts of time to a game part of the difficulty.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Mahou » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:30 pm UTC

Dying has the consequence of "god dammit, I just lost that awesome staff and sword I got because some jerk-off pushed me off a cliff."

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Re: Magicka

Postby uncivlengr » Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:37 pm UTC

Actually, now that I think about it, Magicka (and a lot of games) have it exactly backwards - when you die, you only go back to the checkpoint, but when you just stop playing for a bit, you get sent back to the start of the level. There's a greater penalty for playing the game occasionally and well than there is playing it constantly but badly.
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Re: Magicka

Postby el_loco_avs » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:55 pm UTC

Well. The levels aren't that long mostly I think?
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Re: Magicka

Postby Jahoclave » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:13 am UTC

el_loco_avs wrote:Well. The levels aren't that long mostly I think?

They are if you bloody suck at it.

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Re: Magicka

Postby EmptySet » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:27 pm UTC

uncivlengr wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, Magicka (and a lot of games) have it exactly backwards - when you die, you only go back to the checkpoint, but when you just stop playing for a bit, you get sent back to the start of the level. There's a greater penalty for playing the game occasionally and well than there is playing it constantly but badly.


Lack of saving and spacing checkpoints wide apart are actually classic methods to stretch the length of a game with limited content by forcing the player to repeat long sections of it.

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Re: Magicka

Postby The Scyphozoa » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:02 pm UTC

So... the art for Magicka: Vietnam appears to be a play on the Battlefield: Bad Company 2 box art (not on the Battlefield: Bad Company 2: Vietnam box art). What's up with that?
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Re: Magicka

Postby Microscopic cog » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:00 pm UTC

Meh, the whole game is a joke on everything.

Which is kind of refreshing. Might be buying Vietnam as well as Magicka was fun to do with friends but so short. Needs more challanges and multiplayer stuff. And it should offer more ways of things going wrong. It's kind of easy now if you try.
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Re: Magicka

Postby emceng » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:12 pm UTC

Necro! Woo!

Got this a week or two ago and I am enjoying it. Just beat Khan I think the other night. Annoying fight, especially since I realized while reading this thread how to make it much easier. Fighting warlocks are by far the most annoying, because you can get one-shotted pretty easily. There is a definite issue with difficulty. One minute you blast through all oppposition, the next you're swarmed with OMGWTFBBQ enemies, and can't do much to stop them.

I like the teleport staff, but have kept the healing staff the whole time. It's the best for me while going solo, so I don't have to stop to heal ever.

Would be nice if there was an easier way to tell if you were wet, instead of having to notice lightning doesn't work.

I cannot imagine soloing in thie game without haste. It would be a huuuuuge pain in the ass.

Is there a NG+ option? Depending on how I feel at the end, I may want to go back and get some of the other books, but it would be more fun with the spells I already have. Oh, and anyone else try Crash to Desktop? Fun, but not very useful.
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Re: Magicka

Postby emceng » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:20 am UTC

And now mega-rage. Failed the mind boss battle about 100 fucking times, then the game crashed to desktop. Great.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Ryom » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:54 am UTC

Yea, the last two posts pretty much sum up Magicka.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Goldstein » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:13 am UTC

Don't be ashamed to resort to some really lame tactics to beat him, emceng - after all, he was designed for fighting a group. I think I shielded myself in with him and just spammed explosions.
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Re: Magicka

Postby Beardhammer » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:15 am UTC

Ryom wrote:Yea, the last two posts pretty much sum up Magicka.


And to think this is all from the same generation of gamers that grew up playing Nintendo Hard games, many of which didn't even HAVE save systems - you had to write down a complicated password, or some games didn't have save games at all, not even with passwords.

Damn, we're fuckin spoiled.

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Re: Magicka

Postby Ryom » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:49 pm UTC

What on earth are you on about now Beardhammer? The poster before me gave a pretty accurate description of the game and I concurred, neither post mentioned anything about how the game "should be" just statement of how it is. I'm not sure where your little rant fits into this thread.


Emceng: "The game is pretty hard sometimes and crashes a lot!"
Ryom: "Yep!"

Beardhammer: Random nonsense about the save system that nobody mentioned and "Damn we're spoiled!" <---- what? :|


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