xkcd

by **CombustibleLemons** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:01 am UTC

Xeio wrote:It's weird that people are trying to pick apart EA's ToS when steam has essentially the same things...

I already pre-ordered, I don't care. Free Mass Effect 2 and MoH for me.

I just read the steam subscriber agreement and it doesn't mention keeping track of what programs you have installed on you computer.

by **Amalith** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:28 am UTC

Amishdemon wrote:
Xeio wrote:It's weird that people are trying to pick apart EA's ToS when steam has essentially the same things...

I already pre-ordered, I don't care. Free Mass Effect 2 and MoH for me.

I just read the steam subscriber agreement and it doesn't mention keeping track of what programs you have installed on you computer.

It has to be on there somewhere. Have you seen the amount of information they have when they post their survey results?

Then again, steam only takes non-steam relevant information when you opt into taking a survey. It sounds like Origin does random scans in the background when it's running. I don't know what data it's gathering with those scans yet though. Probably similar to what steam grabs during those surveys (dxdiag and installed programs list).

by **Amnesiasoft** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:48 am UTC

Amalith wrote:Then again, steam only takes non-steam relevant information when you opt into taking a survey.

See that? That's the key difference. Steam asks you, EA... technically asks you... once, deep in the abyss known as a EULA.

by **big boss** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:22 am UTC

Amalith wrote:
Amishdemon wrote:
Xeio wrote:It's weird that people are trying to pick apart EA's ToS when steam has essentially the same things...

I already pre-ordered, I don't care. Free Mass Effect 2 and MoH for me.

I just read the steam subscriber agreement and it doesn't mention keeping track of what programs you have installed on you computer.

It has to be on there somewhere. Have you seen the amount of information they have when they post their survey results?

Then again, steam only takes non-steam relevant information when you opt into taking a survey. It sounds like Origin does random scans in the background when it's running. I don't know what data it's gathering with those scans yet though. Probably similar to what steam grabs during those surveys (dxdiag and installed programs list).

EA can get any piece of info from your computer they want and then on top of that SELL IT. Valve cannot sell your info and only gathers info related to their games and computer specs. But EA can see what my favorite porn site is (they probably won't but that is besides the point, the point is that the can do so if they wanted). Fucking BULLSHIT. Not to mention all the crazy shit EA does to promote its games (dante's inferno anyone?). The fucking CEO of EA even had the balls to insult Activision about MW3 in a manner 3 year olds do... See this article. The gaming industry has a hard enough time trying to prove its mature without the bullshit EA is doing, and EA doesn't even make games, they just publish them. I'm so furious right now. Fuck you EA.

Edit: here is a thread on reddit that has information on people to contact at EA in case your angry at them for everything they have done.

by **Amalith** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:46 pm UTC

big boss wrote:EA can get any piece of info from your computer they want and then on top of that SELL IT. Valve cannot sell your info and only gathers info related to their games and computer specs. But EA can see what my favorite porn site is (they probably won't but that is besides the point, the point is that the can do so if they wanted). Fucking BULLSHIT. Not to mention all the crazy shit EA does to promote its games (dante's inferno anyone?). The fucking CEO of EA even had the balls to insult Activision about MW3 in a manner 3 year olds do... See this article. The gaming industry has a hard enough time trying to prove its mature without the bullshit EA is doing, and EA doesn't even make games, they just publish them. I'm so furious right now. Fuck you EA.

Edit: here is a thread on reddit that has information on people to contact at EA in case your angry at them for everything they have done.

Yeah, I was about that angry with them when I first read about this whole thing too (I'm already using the sandboxie method mentioned on that reddit page). I'm just trying to be tone it down because I still really want to like this game. EA is just making that so hard to do. (DICE isn't helping either, with their web based server browser, and limitation on dedicated servers. Not that that last bit comes as a surprise: it's the same as Bad Company 2, I was just hoping for better)

by **thecommabandit** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:43 pm UTC

This whole Origin debacle is why I'm not going to buy Battlefield 3. I mean, it was only meh-worthy beforehand, but this has downgraded it into don't-care territory. I'm just relieved that Mass Effect 3 doesn't require Origin.

by **big boss** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:09 am UTC

so if i understand sandboxie correctly, it basically boxes off part of your harddrive and you run your program (Origin) within that "box" and it cannot access or change any information outside of that box? And that will prevent Origin from accessing information about your system?

by **Amalith** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:50 am UTC

big boss wrote:so if i understand sandboxie correctly, it basically boxes off part of your harddrive and you run your program (Origin) within that "box" and it cannot access or change any information outside of that box? And that will prevent Origin from accessing information about your system?

I'n not an expert on this, but from what I understand, normally, Sandboxie copies programs into a sandbox and everything it does is contained within the sandbox. Origin is too big to be copied into the sandbox (There's a setting you can change so that isn't the case), so it stays outside the sandbox, but everything it does is limited to within the sandbox while running through sandboxie.

This made it a pain when patching the thing, let alone installing or playing a game with it, so I setup a 'sandbox' that allowed access to the full drive, and then restricted Origin's Telemetry folder, preventing it from storing the data it collects or accessing the the data already stored to upload. I haven't had any real cause to use orign at all, so idk how well that works.

by **SurgicalSteel** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:32 am UTC

The solution is to play on X-Box or PS3. This stuff is part of the reason I'm 90% a console gamer now. I don't surf porn or check my e-mail or use my credit card or ~~send covert communiques to other CIA agents~~ talk about the weather with friends on my x-box.

by **F117Landers** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:34 am UTC

This was going to be one game that I would have absolutely bought on the PC (I play mostly console for the ease and intigration of services, as well as the common hardware), but after hearing what EA is doing with origin, I think I might just stick to the 360. It's a shame, really.

I can see one use of the scans from ea origin: Any rival company's software would light up like a red flag, showing them how many gamers play rival's games, or how they are doing compared to rivals. Also, any hacking tools. (so in a way, a few steps further than punkbuster)

by **Xeio** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:30 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:The solution is to play on X-Box or PS3. This stuff is part of the reason I'm 90% a console gamer now. I don't surf porn or check my e-mail or use my credit card or ~~send covert communiques to other CIA agents~~ talk about the weather with friends on my x-box.

But then you only get something like 32 players max instead of 64!

by **The Scyphozoa** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

24, actually.

But if you CAN play it on PC, you HAVE to! Think of those poor unfortunate lower-middle class people who don't have a good enough PC. And you would just throw that away?

Shaaaaaaaaame

by **collegestudent22** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:48 pm UTC

big boss wrote:1st they have the debacle with steam whereby the game gets pulled from steam (and in my opinion valve had every right to be upset because they were being blamed by customers for problems that they couldn't control and which were EA's fault.)

EA has recently become assholes when working with other companies. First, they don't work with Valve to get their games on Steam (obviously because Origin will be a competing - and inferior - service). Then, they fuck with Turn 10/Microsoft with Forza 4 and the Porsche license (obviously because NFS is set to become a competing - and, again, inferior - game). EA just needs to stop. If they honestly think that people will use Origin because their games aren't on Steam, or if people will buy NFS over Forza because of Porsches, they are nuts.

The Battlefield issue isn't a problem for me (console gaming has its advantages here), but EA is being ridiculous. They really do need to get their shit together, or there will be fewer and fewer customers buying EA games. Starting with the people that only buy their (non-Blizzard) PC games through Steam.

by **Steax** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:53 am UTC

I... I only just saw the newer trailers and they blew me away. I may seriously opt to upgrade my computer specifically to play this.

I've been a massive fan of the battlefield series. Even from the days of playing BF1942(?), I was instantly attached and other FPS games paled in comparison. Running around with a bunch of people while looking wildly in every direction, with people doing all sorts of crazy crap here. (I'm sure that every single person who flew a plane in a battlefield game has tried the hug-the-ground-and-behead-people-as-you-fly-by thing. Or bazooka snipe.) I'm not afraid of snipers headshooting me from a million feet away in this game - I'm afraid of tanks flying out of random walls and jets suddenly swooping in and whatever. I'm glad that this game takes the spirit forward. As someone who doesn't like blood very much in games, I'm also glad it seems relatively blood-free.

That said, the trailers seem very... Transformers-themed.

(My other fetish for planes in BF is that I'm a detail maniac. There's just something about flying around in dogfights and between buildings, while still being able to swoop to ground level and see the detail of a single person shooting a gun.)

by **big boss** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:40 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:24, actually.

This is why consoles suck. Also any player using a controller will get their ass beat by someone with a mouse and keyboard (FPS's that allow games across PC's and consoles are unfair for any console gamer). Mouse and keyboard are simply better than a controller.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:21 am UTC

Open Beta September 29. Anyone who pre-ordered the Medal of Honor Whatever Edition Thing gets in 48 hours earlier. Min requirements below:

Spoiler:

O'course, I'll be getting it for the Xbox instead. It's kind of a shame that the beta won't be showing Conquest mode, only Rush mode, and it will only have one vehicle on the map. No jets in the beta.

What I'm wondering is if there will be a "demo" separate from the beta, like there was for Bad Company 2. The Bad Company 2 demo was rush instead of conquest as well, but it was on a map that had EVERYTHING. Tanks and helicopters of all types.

by **MisterCheif** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:56 pm UTC

I have a feeling the developers are just calling their demos "betas" now. This beta comes out a month before the game is released. If I remember correctly from releases of previous games, they tend to go gold (ie, no more changes to the disc version) about a month before release, to give time for certification by Microsoft/Sony and production of the discs themselves.

I'm sure they will use feedback from the "beta" for patches, but I don't think its really a true beta. I imagine all of that was dealt with in the invite only alpah DICE had.

by **Dark567** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:58 pm UTC

MisterCheif wrote:I'm sure they will use feedback from the "beta" for patches, but I don't think its really a true beta. I imagine all of that was dealt with in the invite only alpah DICE had.

The alpha didn't have any flying vehicles, and I thought it felt pretty rusty still... so I am not sure.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:09 am UTC

The beta won't have any flying vehicles either. It's the same map as the alpha.

by **Obby** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:55 pm UTC

So EA is really slow with releasing the beta keys for those that pre-ordered... while those that bought MoH through Steam already have their keys.

Kind of messed up, really. I was hoping to start downloading the client before I had to leave for class, but I'm still waiting on the email from them with my key...

Edit: Of course, as soon as I get to school I check my email and I have the code from EA...

by **Bakemaster** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:01 pm UTC

No commander role? Seriously? I always felt like that gave BF2 a significant extra layer of depth. Bummer.

by **F117Landers** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:47 am UTC

Bakemaster wrote:No commander role? Seriously? I always felt like that gave BF2 a significant extra layer of depth. Bummer.

It did, if you had someone who knew what they were doing. Most people didn't want to do it. Those who did would quarrel over it, or didn't know how to use it correctly. It's a shame, really.

I tried to explain the concept of squad based gameplay to someone who only played CoD. He couldn't grasp the concept.

On a different note, I finally updated the information at the start of the thread. Been a while since I was online.

by **Xeio** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:52 am UTC

Hrmmm, I'm still not entirely sold on the battlelog, it's an interesting idea if nothing else, hopefully they can clean it up a bit (and iron out some of the weirder glitches in the game) by the end of the beta. Mostly I'd just like a "join server" button in the row, having to scroll back up just to join is silly.

by **big boss** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:49 am UTC

Yet another Fuck You to the consumer by EA.

Sigh, do they want me to buy their game? I'm still holding out.

Ea changed their TOS so its impossible to file a class action lawsuit. I will not agree to anything that takes away my rights to redress that a legally mine (well I guess not legally mine anymore due to some asshat judge...). I know I will probably never need to file a class action lawsuit but its the principle. Fuck you EA.

by **Obby** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:15 am UTC

Wasn't there a court case relatively recently where the court found EULA's and TOS's are not legally binding, and essentially useless? I'll have to dig around and see if I can find what I read.

Regarding the game:

So I only briefly played a couple rounds last night, since it was late and I had to get up early today. The server browser thing isn't really all that bad. It's not great, there's still some part of me that screams "cheap!" when launching a game from a web browser, since it's a system that mostly free games tend to use. But, functionally, it does work. It took a little getting used too, since I had forgotten that there was no in-game server browser, so it was a little jarring to hit "Launch Game" from Origin only to have a web browser pop up. And they kind of hid the option to get to the actual server browser, it seems they really want to make people use the Quick-Match thing (but fuck that noise). Joining a game also seems to be quite a bit faster than from BF2, and slightly faster than BC2. Whether that's because it's a beta client or not, I have no idea.

The game itself... I was a bit unimpressed with the graphics. I was told that you'd need an SLI rig with 2x GTX 580's or comparable/better in order to max the game out on ultra, but I was able to do that on a single Radeon 6950 and still hit >60 FPS. The game doesn't look bad, not by a long shot, but after all the hype of how much of a monster rig you'd need to run this, I felt disappointed that it actually doesn't look any better than BC2 does. Maybe that's because it's a beta client and they actually have the textures and details turned down, I have no idea. I will say, though, that they delivered on the sound production. I was playing with headphones, and you really feel like you're in the middle of a war. Bullets pinging off of concrete barriers to your left, teammates shouting things behind you, footfalls crashing through gravel and brush. I was thoroughly impressed by the sounds.

Gameplay feels really good. It took some getting used to having a prone position again, after not having it for so long in BC2. I played the support class, with the LMG and ammo packs, and found that the starter guns were actually quite accurate and powerful. It makes me wonder how necessary the upgrades actually will be when the starter LMG can kill in 2-3 hits. A neat feature I discovered by accident was that, when prone or crouching behind cover, you can set up the bipod on the gun to increase stability and accuracy. It makes it really interesting when defending a point. I didn't get to test out the environmental destruction, since I was playing as a class without explosives.

The maps that I played on were pretty different. I jumped in on a map where there was a destroyed city, and a subway tunnel had collapsed and the fighting was taking place down there. It was pretty confusing, being my first match. I didn't get to do much other than run around the empty trains and tunnels looking for a way to find the gunfire. The second map was a kind of city park that had been set up with defensive stuff. There was plenty of low walls and barriers put up for cover, as well as lots of natural hills and shrubbery for cover and hiding. It looked like, so far, both maps favored the defenders, given equally matched teams.

The biggest complaint I think I have is the respawn system. In BC2, you could hit Enter and end up back at the spawn selection screen to change your loadout or spawn point or squad or whatever while you waited for your respawn timer. Here, I wasn't able to figure out a way that I could do that, I had to wait for my respawn timer to run to zero before I could anything other than look at the guy that killed me and the scoreboard. Similarly, there's no option that I could find to exit the game once the round ended, I had to wait for the next round to begin (I ended up just using Alt+F4 to get around the ~40 seconds between rounds before I could exit).

All in all, I definitely want to keep going to better hone my opinion. So far it's been good, but I feel it could be better.

by **F117Landers** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:25 am UTC

big boss wrote:Yet another Fuck You to the consumer by EA.

Sigh, do they want me to buy their game? I'm still holding out.

Ea changed their TOS so its impossible to file a class action lawsuit. I will not agree to anything that takes away my rights to redress that a legally mine (well I guess not legally mine anymore due to some asshat judge...). I know I will probably never need to file a class action lawsuit but its the principle. Fuck you EA.

If you read the fine print, it says "except where prohibited by law", as well as "...expressly excludes residents of Quebec, Russia, Switzerland and the Member States of the European Union" ... And it's prohibited by US Law. Which means that the entire purpose is to confuse the user into not suing them.

Based on what Dobby has said on Launching Maps, it sounds like some crap that EA pushed on DICE. Is there a Console Demo Available to see what the differences are?

by **The Scyphozoa** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:29 pm UTC

Um, Obby, there's only one map. The park is actually the first quarter of the subway map. After the attackers destroy both objectives, everyone jumps down into a hole into the subway. There are then two more sets of objectives until you come out of the subway into city streets.

Though they are giving some people access to a second map. Not sure how. I think you use a password which may be "sexyelevator" if they haven't changed it. It's conquest, not rush, therefore no "attackers" and "defenders".

by **Obby** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:36 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Um, Obby, there's only one map. The park is actually the first quarter of the subway map. After the attackers destroy both objectives, everyone jumps down into a hole into the subway. There are then two more sets of objectives until you come out of the subway into city streets.

Though they are giving some people access to a second map. Not sure how. I think you use a password which may be "sexyelevator" if they haven't changed it. It's conquest, not rush, therefore no "attackers" and "defenders".

Oh I see. I didn't realize they were two parts of the same map. They looked completely different.

by **F117Landers** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:55 pm UTC

Sounds like the paris map, if i'm not mistaken.

by **ulster** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:04 pm UTC

So far I'm content launching the game from the battlelog, but only because the game loads quickly. If it stays that way I'll be quite happy that it isn't the BF2 model of wait an eternity for the map to load only to find out the server just changed levels and I have to do it all over again.

The flashlights confuse me as they are; why am I being blinding at 20m in broad daylight just because someone shined a flashlight in my general direction?

Gameplay feels really good. It took some getting used to having a prone position again, after not having it for so long in BC2. I played the support class, with the LMG and ammo packs, and found that the starter guns were actually quite accurate and powerful. It makes me wonder how necessary the upgrades actually will be when the starter LMG can kill in 2-3 hits.

I miss the BF2 feeling here where you could take a few hits. It certainly feels more like the successor to BC2 than BF2.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:50 pm UTC

In BC2 most guns took about 6 shots to kill. So I think the higher gun damage is kind of new to the series as a whole.

by **Zapheod** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:55 pm UTC

I am really happy with the reflection from peoples scopes. Makes it much easier to spot snipers in the brush. I also think that using Q to spot someone is not quite right. Often I just look where I think people are and hit Q to see if anyone is there even if I can't see them.

Lots of holes in the terrain in the first section of the map as well.

I am happy with the upgrade options though. So far, at level 5, as the medic class I have a grip, heavy barrel and 4x scope. Linking upgrades to kills with a weapon makes far more sense than linking everything to raw xp with a specific class.

by **MisterCheif** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:57 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Um, Obby, there's only one map. The park is actually the first quarter of the subway map. After the attackers destroy both objectives, everyone jumps down into a hole into the subway. There are then two more sets of objectives until you come out of the subway into city streets.

Though they are giving some people access to a second map. Not sure how. I think you use a password which may be "sexyelevator" if they haven't changed it. It's conquest, not rush, therefore no "attackers" and "defenders".

According to what I saw posted on the Battlefield 3 forums, it is "sexyelevator" for UK servers and "Appletini" for US servers.

[EDIT] I saw on the forums it may have been changed. But I recommend if you are looking for a password, look on the Battlefield 3 UK forums. It's a much better community.

And i'm a console player, so I'm stuck with just rush. Oh well, at least EA can't steal my data. :wink:

by **eculc** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:39 pm UTC

so, I guess everyone's too busy playing the beta to comment on the thread?

protip: if you're on the Xbox, don't use C4.

by **Xeio** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:48 pm UTC

eculc wrote:so, I guess everyone's too busy playing the beta to comment on the thread?

Doubtful, it's only one map so there aren't really any reasons to play it a lot. I've played a bunch of games but it's a bit meh after the 20th time on the same map in a row. I think I can wait till release.

eculc wrote:protip: if you're on the Xbox, don't use C4.

I love it for blowing up the barriers on the first points (on defense). But I'm on PC, why not use it on the 360?

by **eculc** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:07 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
eculc wrote:protip: if you're on the Xbox, don't use C4.
I love it for blowing up the barriers on the first points (on defense). But I'm on PC, why not use it on the 360?

lol. it makes your xbox freeze. =P (myself having discovered this shortly after detonating one while someone was planting a bomb) it's very disappointing, because you could really use it in many situations. dice has verified that it's fixed for the full game, though.

by **Jebobek** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:26 pm UTC

"If you play this game, you are male, and you will have 99 action-based problems but a relationship with a female will not be one of those problems."

The game looks great.. but.. I just can't get past them choosing this song. I'm going to pass.

by **Xeio** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:16 pm UTC

EA's marketing department strikes again?

In other news, apparently they opened up Caspian Border for mass "testing" this weekend (PC only).

by **Obby** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:27 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:EA's marketing department strikes again?

In other news, apparently they opened up Caspian Border for mass "testing" this weekend (PC only).

They did. And it's AWESOME. Vehicles, including jets and choppers, are all enabled. It's beautiful.

by **big boss** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:46 am UTC

Xeio wrote:EA's marketing department strikes again?

EA is filled with a bunch of dick waving 10 year olds sadly...

Jebobek wrote:"If you play this game, you are male, and you will have 99 action-based problems but a relationship with a female will not be one of those problems."

The game looks great.. but.. I just can't get past them choosing this song. I'm going to pass.

Is that a quote from an actual EA ad?

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