Kerbal Space Program

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:24 pm UTC

The most efficient way would be to build a small plane with a single turbojet thruster at the back. Unless I'm mistaken, the north pole is plenty flat enough to land on.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Steax » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:35 pm UTC

I want to use this opportunity to learn more about rockets, though. I'm thinking of it as a "safe" simulation of an ascent from another planet.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:07 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:The most efficient way would be to build a small plane with a single turbojet thruster at the back. Unless I'm mistaken, the north pole is plenty flat enough to land on.
Efficient fuel wise for sure, but a flight that far will take ages. It's faster to just launch a rocket, aim it north, and let it descend into the frozen wastes.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:09 pm UTC

Fair enough. Ever since those rapier engines have come out, I've been a little bit obsessed with planes. I think you underestimate how fast a plane can fly though. Give it a good air intake, fly it up to 20 or 25km altitude, fly along at mach 3 or 4. You'll get to the north pole in no time.

With a rocket, remember to angle a tiny bit west when aiming north, to counter the planet's rotation. Just fly your rocket on your standard ascent path until your forward trajectory in map view intersects the north pole.

Edit: just tried it with a plane. 14 minutes and 14 seconds between take-off and touchdown. Interesting thing: the turbojet continued working long after the intake air hit 0.0. Is that normal?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Kulantan » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:23 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Edit: just tried it with a plane. 14 minutes and 14 seconds between take-off and touchdown. Interesting thing: the turbojet continued working long after the intake air hit 0.0. Is that normal?

That looks like a bug to me. You should have flamed out much earlier. But since you did eventually flame out, maybe some patch changed how ram intakes work.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:43 pm UTC

According to the kerbal forums, it's not a bug, it's just how the new resources system works. I don't suppose anyone else cares to try it and see if they get similar results?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:38 pm UTC

just messed with the tether stuff. Certainly takes the pressure off docking an enormous lander if I can just have a kerbal EVA a gas line over.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Mutex » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:07 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:According to the kerbal forums, it's not a bug, it's just how the new resources system works. I don't suppose anyone else cares to try it and see if they get similar results?


I've seen that happen in 0.23, it surprised me too. Did the forums give any physical explanation for why it works like that?

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:26 pm UTC

Landed on the Mun, returned with two exposed Mystery Goos, one Science Jr and Jebidiah intact.

HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF SCIENCE RETURNED

Anyway, one Mun biome down. Time to try and land in another (and return) then time to try for Minmus. Or... actually, I wonder if I can put a Mobile Processing Lab on wheels and drive it around the Mun....

At any rate, the limited parts really are forcing me to build better craft, so that's still a plus. Except I unlocked the fuel line so... yeah. I can do the Asparagus Thing again.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Will » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:12 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LOT OF SCIENCE RETURNED

So you probably got, what, 400-500 science out of that trip? Once you get up to the higher end of the tech tree, that's barely half of a single piece of research.

Back in .22 (when you could spam-transmit science) I made a trip to Jool, landed on Pol, and did a flyby of most of the other moons, and when I got back I had managed about 4000 science. Fun times. Probably a lot harder to do that now, though.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:07 pm UTC

I think it was in the 300 range, but yeah. I know it'll be low later, but when you don't have all the tier 4 stuff unlocked and just a toetip in tier 5, that's a couple new things unlocked.

At any rate, a mobile science center, on wheels, solar panels and RCS thrusters as the driving force might work. One trip to land it, another (or two) to rescue it. Should be fun. Provided it works.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:12 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:According to the kerbal forums, it's not a bug, it's just how the new resources system works. I don't suppose anyone else cares to try it and see if they get similar results?


I've seen that happen in 0.23, it surprised me too. Did the forums give any physical explanation for why it works like that?

The general idea is that the reported amount of "IntakeAir" is whatever is left in excess once the engines have had their fill. Once it reaches 0.0, the engines are receiving less oxygen from the air, so their thrust and efficiency drops off. Flame-out occurs when there's so little oxygen that the engine cannot run even in a degraded mode.

This does not seem to be the case with rapier engines, however. They flame out or switch to closed-cycle when the "IntakeAir" commodity is at around 0.2.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:17 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:At any rate, a mobile science center, on wheels, solar panels and RCS thrusters as the driving force might work. One trip to land it, another (or two) to rescue it.
I basically stopped playing with science when .23 came out, but could you, say, land your rover, rove around and do a bunch of science (science lab to reset the goo and jr science labs), transfer all the science to the module (how much can you transfer? can you transfer?) and then just recover the module?

or transfer the science to a new module? That returns?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Carlington » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:49 am UTC

That's pretty much what I did on my most recent expedition. You need a Kerbal to collect and transfer Science, but there's no limit to the amount you can transfer that I've reached, and nothing stopping you from making multiple trips if there is a limit, and there's no penalty for transferring. So, send a probe, have it land, rove, do Science, and so on, then re-orbit around $body and send a manned capsule to EVA and recover the Science.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:53 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:At any rate, a mobile science center, on wheels, solar panels and RCS thrusters as the driving force might work. One trip to land it, another (or two) to rescue it.
I basically stopped playing with science when .23 came out, but could you, say, land your rover, rove around and do a bunch of science (science lab to reset the goo and jr science labs), transfer all the science to the module (how much can you transfer? can you transfer?) and then just recover the module?

or transfer the science to a new module? That returns?


I made a lunatic thing.

Fucking thing worked. Landing it on Kerbin as I type this. I'll attach images to this later, but basically it was the two-crew Science resetter, four Goo tubes, one Science Jr thing, a Thermometer, the lander module as the driver, two RCR fulepods, and some monothrusters to drive it all.

I just did a short run, but I now know what to do on my second run so as to actually drive it around.

....

I may have put too many parachutes on it. 4.1 m/s descending speed, with.. uh... 19 chutes. Probably excessive.

Time to remove some of those.
Spoiler:
screenshot16.png
Full ship. Yes, I used Asparagus Staging. Sue me.

screenshot17.png
This is what actually landed. And took off. I need to add struts to the rear tank and move the wheels back for added support, so it doesn't snap off.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby yurell » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:18 am UTC

Full ship. Yes, I used Asparagus Staging. Sue me.


Asparagus staging is pretty close to the most efficient you can get afaik, why would it be a problem?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Steax » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:38 am UTC

yurell wrote:
Full ship. Yes, I used Asparagus Staging. Sue me.


Asparagus staging is pretty close to the most efficient you can get afaik, why would it be a problem?


The nagging feeling that if something happens in real life and you need to design a rocket, and the best ones you come up with are all Asparagus staged.

"Dave, the asteroid is going to hit Earth in 6 days. We'll get a group of ragtag oil drillers to destroy it from the inside out. You need to design us the best rocket you can come up with."

"Sure!"

The next day...

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:00 pm UTC

Is she preparing to backhand him around the head in that comic?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:58 pm UTC

Steax wrote:The next day...

Image


Funny you should mention that...

At any rate, Asparagus Staging feels like cheating, really. While it's somewhat understandable until we get better deployables and shields and so on as a way of getting heavy, non-aerodynamic shit into orbit, it's something that ... doesn't look like it'd work in real life. I base that on my knowing how fluids can be moved around and on the fact that I've never seen an asparagus staged rocket. That I'm aware of, at least.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:17 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Steax wrote:The next day...

Image


Funny you should mention that...

At any rate, Asparagus Staging feels like cheating, really. While it's somewhat understandable until we get better deployables and shields and so on as a way of getting heavy, non-aerodynamic shit into orbit, it's something that ... doesn't look like it'd work in real life. I base that on my knowing how fluids can be moved around and on the fact that I've never seen an asparagus staged rocket. That I'm aware of, at least.

*cough*

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Mutex » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:54 pm UTC

Yeah, it's basically due to KSP's limited aerodynamics simulation that you can make really wide rockets that still work. And adding nose cones doesn't actually decrease drag yet.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:48 am UTC

I just watched my son recreate the space shuttle, complete with booster rockets...

and due to the excessive weight and some manual control, perform a flip and a delta-v slide a mere 88m above sea level.

"Let's see NASA do that! "

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Coin » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:34 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I just watched my son recreate the space shuttle, complete with booster rockets...

and due to the excessive weight and some manual control, perform a flip and a delta-v slide a mere 88m above sea level.

"Let's see NASA do that! "

That sounds like a moment of equal parts awesome and terror =D

Question: Am I alone in making use of the "Abort" button? Since I've programmed it to do a proper abort my use of the "Revert to" has declined a lot and I have seen more potential problems with my new rocket designs since I test more parts of it per go.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Carlington » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:27 am UTC

I re-enacted my Mun mission, but this time I went to Minmus. I managed to be even more efficient than before thanks to what I learned in the Mun expedition, so now I have an unmanned capsule in orbit around Minmus with prooobably enough delta-v to get back to Kerbin but no parachute to land. Also, I already recovered the Science from it, so there's no point bringing it back, except for to get the Science points you get for recovering a ship from orbit or landing on another body.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:07 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:s. I managed to be even more efficient than before thanks to what I learned in the Mun expedition,
One thing I've realized is you can save a fairly enormous amount of delta-v on vacuum bodies with your landing and take off.

Coin wrote:: Am I alone in making use of the "Abort" button?
I don't really use abort, I just use revert. What's the difference?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby brenok » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:35 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Coin wrote:: Am I alone in making use of the "Abort" button?
I don't really use abort, I just use revert. What's the difference?

The abort button by itself does nothing, but you can associate it to an action group to, for instance, decouple your command module, fire a escape tower and open parachutes. It just seems more realistic than just rewinding time.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby yurell » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:59 am UTC

Thought I would share Macey Dean's Harbinger Class: KSS Spirit of Kerbin series. He has amazing ships and completely wanton destruction — if you ever wondered what would happen if KSP ships tried to shoot each other, this is a great story to watch.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Wnderer » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:42 pm UTC

Maybe someone here can explain what is going on. I think the rule prograde->bigger orbit, retrograde-> smaller orbit should apply, but here it is going in reverse.


Retrograde making the orbit bigger.
Spoiler:
retrograde1.png

retrograde2.png

retrograde3.png


Prograde making the orbit smaller.
Spoiler:
prograde2.png

prograde3.png

prograde4.png


If I leave the game and come back and restore the mission the game works correctly.

Spoiler:
AfterReset0.png

AfterReset1.png

AfterReset2.png


Before reset the speed is around 18700m/s surface. After reset, the speed is 120m/s orbit. So it probably has something to do with what the orbit/surface mix up. Does anyone have any explanation for this? Is there someway to fix the speed, without quitting the game?

Thanks

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:51 pm UTC

Do you have two control parts docked together? If one is facing backwards and you'd clicked "control from here", that could explain it.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Wnderer » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:37 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Do you have two control parts docked together? If one is facing backwards and you'd clicked "control from here", that could explain it.


I don't think so. This is what is left of my ship.

MK16 Parachute
Command Pod Mk1
TR-18A Stack Decoupler
Inline Advanced Stabilizer
2 Mk2-R Radial-Mount Parachute
FL-R25 RCS Fuel Tank
4 RV-105RCS Thrust Block
FL-T100 Fuel Tank
FL-T800 Fuel Tank
3 TT-70 Radial Decouplers
3 LT-2 Landing Strut
LV-909 Liquid Fuel Engine
2 Telus-LV Bay Mobility Enhancers
TR-18A Stack Decoupler
2 FL-T800 Fuel Tank
LV-T45 Liquid Fuel Engine

screenshot14.png

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby brenok » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:23 am UTC

The problem really is the surface/orbital speed.

Because you're orbiting in the same direction of the planet, but relatively slow (~125 m/s), from somebody looking from the surface it seems you're going backwards. So, when you think you're pointing prograde, you're actually pointing on the direction a surface observer sees you going, that is, retrograde.

Just click the speedometer to change between orbital and surface.

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Will » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:26 am UTC

brenok beat me to it. I knew exactly what the problem was before I even looked at the image.

The reason is that the game automatically switches between surface mode and orbital mode at a certain altitude, so you get used to never paying attention to which mode it's in. The problem is that every so often it doesn't switch for whatever reason, and you end up in orbit in surface mode or, worse, trying to land in orbital mode and can't figure out why everything's acting weird.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Wnderer » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:54 am UTC

Thank you! There's a reason for it and a way to make it stop. Now the question is relative to the Oberth effect, am I going slow or fast?

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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:34 pm UTC

Guess what just landed on my doorstep.

Spoiler:
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:55 pm UTC

That is awesome. Also, you have long nails.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:04 pm UTC

Long nails are useful for cutting open packages that contain kerbals.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby nitePhyyre » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:50 pm UTC

Is it just me or is it very sparkly? And awesome?
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:04 pm UTC

It is sparkly. The 3D printing material is based on sandstone, I believe.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:55 pm UTC

The resolution on most 3d printing is also not very good, so you end with grind of rough and grainy curves.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program

Postby Suzaku » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:13 am UTC

Why does this game not come with a 144-point, bold warning that you won't be able to sleep for days after purchasing it?

Need more science!!

EDIT: Just put a robot probe on Minmus :)

EDITEDIT: Now have landed Kerbals on both Minmus and Mun.
The first Mun landing didn't go so well; I failed to kill my lateral velocity, and botched the landing. Tore off one of the legs of the lander, which toppled over and couldn't be righted.
Sent up a rescue mission, managed to stick the landing this time 'round, and Jeb EVAed over from the crash site 10.8 km away.

Spoilered for big:
Spoiler:
Image
Would you look at the slope we landed on?!

Image
All back together and ready to go.

Image
Bringing the heroes home.


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