Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Dark567 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:20 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:They wouldn't mess with the battle system much, would they? The whole materia system is arguably kind of broken, but without it, it wouldn't really be Final Fantasy VII anymore.
It's Nomura. The guy loves to put his mark on everything and he's explicitly stated that his aims are to improve on the game, and that some of that is going to be new combat mechanics.

... So I'd say all signs point to yes, they will mess with the battle system a lot. Nomura also has had a tendency to prefer more action battle systems over menu based ones(i.e. KH, FFXV, Crisis Core), so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see something very different.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Tirian » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:25 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:They wouldn't mess with the battle system much, would they? The whole materia system is arguably kind of broken, but without it, it wouldn't really be Final Fantasy VII anymore.


Why do you think so? I feel like materia was one of the strongest gameplay systems in the series. I think that VII suffered from having too many PCs who were not all that different from each other in combat (and, IIRC, leveled even if they weren't in the active party).

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:37 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:They wouldn't mess with the battle system much, would they? The whole materia system is arguably kind of broken, but without it, it wouldn't really be Final Fantasy VII anymore.
How is the materia system broken?
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Dark567 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:47 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Jorpho wrote:They wouldn't mess with the battle system much, would they? The whole materia system is arguably kind of broken, but without it, it wouldn't really be Final Fantasy VII anymore.
How is the materia system broken?

A couple things:
1. The stats hit that materia gives you are almost certainly too low for the intended effect. It was supposed to be about tradeoffs, but -2% strength for equipping a magic materia ended up just being inconsequential. Its not a tradeoff, there is just a clearly better option.

2. Magic defense is a completely bogus stat that actually isn't used in the math for anything in the game. All the tradeoffs that are involved in it are completely pointless.

3. There are some combos it seems like are simply overpowered that the creators may never have intended. Cover+Counter, Hades+added effect(+ Double cut) etc. And those are just the easy ones, W-Summon + KOTR is game breaking, but I guess that's a little bit okay as both are difficult to get.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:42 pm UTC

I can't speak for Jorpho, but...

Some combinations were more dramatically powerful than others. Should I use knights of the round + quatra magic? I should if I don't want to handicap myself. Some people hate handicapping themselves. This also has the effect of whomever you put the best materia on doing more damage than everyone else combined.

Some of the characters (particularly Cloud) got to the point where they could do max damage with their regular attack, which kind of makes most using most spells a waste of magic.

There are also some things that FF has stopped doing with it's magic systems:

Spells become useless: Late game you might use lightning-3, but never lighting-1. In FFXIII thunder still retains a place even after you learn thunderaga.

There's also the "run out of MP" mechanic where you budget your mp for the dungeon and if you run our of mp and eithers, your magic materia turns to pumpkins.
The thing about recursion problems is that they tend to contain other recursion problems.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:44 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:In FFXIII thunder still retains a place even after you learn thunderaga.
How?

Dark567 wrote:The stats hit that materia gives you are almost certainly too low for the intended effect. It was supposed to be about tradeoffs, but -2% strength for equipping a magic materia ended up just being inconsequential. Its not a tradeoff, there is just a clearly better option.
It's been ages, but I remember some materia having quite potent stat effects? Same with FF3 - some espers could turn a magic user into a fighter.

Dark567 wrote:Magic defense is a completely bogus stat that actually isn't used in the math for anything in the game. All the tradeoffs that are involved in it are completely pointless.
Haha seriously? That's pretty amazing.

Dark567 wrote:There are some combos it seems like are simply overpowered that the creators may never have intended. Cover+Counter, Hades+added effect(+ Double cut) etc. And those are just the easy ones, W-Summon + KOTR is game breaking, but I guess that's a little bit okay as both are difficult to get.
Certainly, but I thought that was sort of the point of the system? I.e., some combos were simply quite potent and powerful.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:37 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:In FFXIII thunder still retains a place even after you learn thunderaga.
How?
Thunder/thundera/thunderaga differed in three ways:
  1. Casting time (the only cost, no mp in this game)
  2. Damage
  3. Radius of effect
Each iteration had higher numbers for all three attributes than the last.

With time, it wasn't simply a matter of damage per second, but also controlling when you hit and what's in your ATB budget.

With radius, you needed to consider how many enemies and their density.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Tirian » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:54 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:I can't speak for Jorpho, but...

Some combinations were more dramatically powerful than others. Should I use knights of the round + quatra magic? I should if I don't want to handicap myself. Some people hate handicapping themselves. This also has the effect of whomever you put the best materia on doing more damage than everyone else combined.

Some of the characters (particularly Cloud) got to the point where they could do max damage with their regular attack, which kind of makes most using most spells a waste of magic.


KotR + Quadra was horribly inefficient from a time perspective. Cloud doing max damage with his regular attack is more about ultima weapons and using morph to grind stat boosts than materia itself. And all that is happening in the post game. Heck, you need a gold chocobo to get KotR. I'm sure that the remake will have more than two optional bosses that are more powerful than Bizarro Sephiroth, but if you're going to spend weeks working past level 50 you deserve to break the combat system IMHO.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:39 pm UTC

I suppose from a real time perspective it's inefficient but the enemy can't attack durring the summons, and unless I'm mistaken the ATB gauges don't even change during. I also certainly didn't grind for weeks to get quadraKnotR, I just pursued the chocbo sidequest to it's logical conclusion.

My gripe with that is thus: I played the game without grinding, or even using the internet and the final boss fight went like this:
Cloud: quadraKnotR
One winged angel: something that doesn't kill Cloud
2 other people: whatever, they're not important
Cloud: quadraKnotR
One winged angel: dies

Also, I should hope we'll be able to skip summon animations.
Last edited by Quizatzhaderac on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:11 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:42 pm UTC

Counter-Mime; HP Absorb-KotR; MP Absorb-KotR
Counter-Mime
Counter-Mime

Start battle. Summon Knights of the Round. Read a book for a while until the animations stop.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Xenomortis » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:48 pm UTC

FFVII is a very easy game once you understand the mechanics.
I didn't even bother with any summons on my last play-through because they're so inefficient.
I think I may have dumped a couple on Aeris at some point just to boost her Magic and MP.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby mosc » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 pm UTC

Folks, cmon. It's Final Fantasy. The game system is not balanced and it never mattered. In fact, I would argue that having a balanced game system is BORING. Inherent to the success of the final fantasy formula is small grinding removing difficulty directly and large grinding leading to humorous overkill.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Dark567 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:55 pm UTC

mosc wrote:Folks, cmon. It's Final Fantasy. The game system is not balanced and it never mattered. In fact, I would argue that having a balanced game system is BORING. Inherent to the success of the final fantasy formula is small grinding removing difficulty directly and large grinding leading to humorous overkill.
I mean to a certain extent, I agree. I guess my argument is that the seriously OP stuff should be things that you have to work for(i.e. Quatro Magic+KotR).
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Tirian » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:00 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:I also certainly didn't grind for weeks to get quadraKnotR, I just pursued the chocbo sidequest to it's logical conclusion.

My gripe with that is thus: I played the game without grinding, or even using the internet and the final boss fight went like this:
Cloud: quadraKnotR
One winged angel: something that doesn't kill Cloud
2 other people: whatever, they're not important
Cloud: quadraKnotR
One winged angel: dies


I'm sorry to call shenanigans on you, but I have trouble believing that you figured out how to breed a gold chocobo on your own.

Also, I should hope we'll be able to skip summon animations.


One would hope so. According to wikipedia, in the FFX/X2 remaster, you couldn't skip cutscenes, so that's discouraging. But if they're going back to scratch, there might even be a minigame in the summons like there was for FF12.

(And yeah, whenever I replay VII or other games with annoying summons, I don't summon at all unless the plot specifically insists on it. It's okay in X though.)

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:06 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:I also certainly didn't grind for weeks to get quadraKnotR, I just pursued the chocbo sidequest to it's logical conclusion.

My gripe with that is thus: I played the game without grinding, or even using the internet and the final boss fight went like this:
Cloud: quadraKnotR
One winged angel: something that doesn't kill Cloud
2 other people: whatever, they're not important
Cloud: quadraKnotR
One winged angel: dies


I'm sorry to call shenanigans on you, but I have trouble believing that you figured out how to breed a gold chocobo on your own.


The Chocobo Sage tells you how... eventually

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:14 pm UTC

mosc wrote:Folks, cmon. It's Final Fantasy. The game system is not balanced and it never mattered. In fact, I would argue that having a balanced game system is BORING. Inherent to the success of the final fantasy formula is small grinding removing difficulty directly and large grinding leading to humorous overkill.

This is a phenomenal description of not just FF games, but most RPGs.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Tirian » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:16 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:The Chocobo Sage tells you how... eventually


I apologize for the accusation then. I'll have to try that next time.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:47 pm UTC

Tirian wrote:
Also, I should hope we'll be able to skip summon animations.


One would hope so. According to wikipedia, in the FFX/X2 remaster, you couldn't skip cutscenes, so that's discouraging. But if they're going back to scratch, there might even be a minigame in the summons like there was for FF12.

(And yeah, whenever I replay VII or other games with annoying summons, I don't summon at all unless the plot specifically insists on it. It's okay in X though.)
A cutscene is very different from a summon animation. I've never been unhappy waiting through a summon animation the first time in a playthrough.
mosc wrote:Folks, cmon. It's Final Fantasy. The game system is not balanced and it never mattered. In fact, I would argue that having a balanced game system is BORING. Inherent to the success of the final fantasy formula is small grinding removing difficulty directly and large grinding leading to humorous overkill.
A different kind on balance matters, but there still should be some kind of balance. QuadraKotR was an order of magnitude stronger than anything else.

Also "attack" could be the hands down best attack for a well equipped character. Which it shouldn't be because it's monotonous. As opposed to XIII where physical attacks had elements of direct damage, staggering and stagger maintenance.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby DaBigCheez » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:32 pm UTC

Also, I find it interesting that all of this discussion is about how overpowered Quadra Magic + KotR is, because...it doesn't work. KotR is the one summon that quadra magic explicitly does *not* work on.

Which is not to say that W-Summon on MP Absorb KotR followed by Mime-chaining isn't hilariously broken. Or that Quad Magic+Bahamut Zero wasn't "get up, go make a sandwich" territory.

I'm not sure those are particularly incisive criticisms of the materia system as a whole, though. Any system with a very large possibility space, as happens when you're able to freely mix and match combinations (especially once you get into multiple copies of materia for multiple supports paired with them), will generally have a few things that rise above the rest due to strong synergy, however careful the designers are. In modern games with constant patching, that can be smoothed out when it's found. In unpatchable games, well, you deal with what you're given. And ultimately, it's a symptom of having a lot of choices to play around with; I prefer that over the alternative of a small number of rigidly-defined abilities.

In any event, "the game can be broken with Final Attack + KotR + multiple copies of Mime"...isn't really primarily related to the materia system anyway. They're postgame content, of course they stomp everything in the main game. That has less to do with "materia can be combined in interesting ways" and more to do with "you farmed for 50 hours and did all the sekrit sidequests".
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby New User » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:45 am UTC

I think the materia system was fine. The real drawback for me was that the biggest thing making the characters unique was just the Limit Breaks, because you can put any skill onto any character just by switching materia. So there was no reason not to just pick three characters and use only them for the whole game.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Zohar » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:40 am UTC

I liked having different limit breaks. I remember one time I was playing with Cait Sith (don't ask me why - variety maybe?) and Vincent, I was fighting the boss on Yuffie's sidequest (one of those flying serpent things that casts aero I think?), Vincent went into limit break mode, and then Cait Sith did as well, and I got those triple-skulls thing that signify game-over. So I ended up just not confirming Cait Sith's limit break, waiting the entire time with the blinking roulette, and hoping that Vincent can beat the boss on his own. And he did!

Anyway, yeah, I kind of like that system, and to be honest I liked FFVIII's even more, especially since it had Aura and allowed you to use limit breaks more. The only thing that really bothered me about FFVIII was drawing spells, because it took so long and you could only get, at most, 9 at a time.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Xenomortis » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:53 am UTC

Grind your characters enough and Limit Breaks become the only differentiating factor.
And Vincent's is one of the worst.

That said, Chaos was a pretty relaxed way of doing the Battle Arena and there is a video on Youtube of him soloing Ruby Weapon.
Of course, it's not time efficient.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Jorpho » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:45 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:Also, I should hope we'll be able to skip summon animations.
They tried to fix that in VIII (with the Boost skill) and did an even better job in IX (where you usually got a shortened version). Not sure what they've done since then.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:37 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Quizatzhaderac wrote:Also, I should hope we'll be able to skip summon animations.
They tried to fix that in VIII (with the Boost skill) and did an even better job in IX (where you usually got a shortened version). Not sure what they've done since then.


Didn't IX have an equippable item that boosted summon damage but forced you to sit through the entire animation every time?

There's a real design issue in there - the animators go to great lengths to produce a spectacular sequence to highlight the stupendous nature of the attack, while a large chunk of the players just want the big number at the end of it - if not the first time, then by the fifteenth time you sit through the same movie, it stops being a cool spectacle and becomes just a waste of time while you wait for the next decision point (the cynic in me wonders whether there is an attempt to use player attention span to balance the raw power of some of these things...)

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:15 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Also, I find it interesting that all of this discussion is about how overpowered Quadra Magic + KotR is, because...it doesn't work. KotR is the one summon that quadra magic explicitly does *not* work on.
*Goes off to find dunce cap*
In any event, "the game can be broken with Final Attack + KotR + multiple copies of Mime"...isn't really primarily related to the materia system anyway. They're postgame content, of course they stomp everything in the main game.
One copy of each of KotR, quadra, and mine aren't really post game; unless you count everything on disc three except "Head straight into the crater" post game.
Any system with a very large possibility space, as happens when you're able to freely mix and match combinations (especially once you get into multiple copies of materia for multiple supports paired with them), will generally have a few things that rise above the rest due to strong synergy, however careful the designers are.
The probability space isn't large for a combinatorial system. They certainly could have QAed every permutation, and I'd expect the designers to have a better grasp of the system then I can attain unaided.

And again, I"m not asked for a perfect balance. Were FFVII a PvP fighter Cloud being consistently 40% stronger than Cait-Sith would be a serious flaw. That's a small thing in a JRPG., but what is a big thing is when it doesn't make a significant difference if you just drop Cait and use a two person party.
Zohar wrote:I liked having different limit breaks.
The complaint is more that the limit breaks weren't enough, not that they were there.
There's a real design issue in there - the animators go to great lengths to produce a spectacular sequence to highlight the stupendous nature of the attack
Something that exacerbates the problem is when these are mundane/frequent attacks with stupendous animations. Some of the later games made the summons much rarer, being basically limit breaks in XII and XIII
Last edited by Quizatzhaderac on Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:55 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:21 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
DaBigCheez wrote:Also, I find it interesting that all of this discussion is about how overpowered Quadra Magic + KotR is, because...it doesn't work. KotR is the one summon that quadra magic explicitly does *not* work on.
*Goes off to find dunce cap*
In any event, "the game can be broken with Final Attack + KotR + multiple copies of Mime"...isn't really primarily related to the materia system anyway. They're postgame content, of course they stomp everything in the main game.
One copy of each of KotR, quadra, and mine aren't really post game; unless you count everything on disc three except "Head straight into the crater" post game.
Any system with a very large possibility space, as happens when you're able to freely mix and match combinations (especially once you get into multiple copies of materia for multiple supports paired with them), will generally have a few things that rise above the rest due to strong synergy, however careful the designers are.
The probability space isn't large for a combinatorial system. They certainly could have QAed every permutation, and I'd expect the designers to have a better grasp of the system then I can attain unaided.


KotR is pretty post-game (or at least very optional) considering it's at the end of an obscure side-quest chain...

As for the combinations, there are 12 support and 14 command materia for 168 possible pairs and then you can have up to 24 of those pairs equipped for 2.6*10^53 possible loadouts just by pairing support and command materia. Sure, you can probably cut that down massively with judicious pruning, but then there are all the other combinations

There are 83 materia and 48 slots, so 84^48 possible different combinations of materia - which can be reduced by a factor of (((2!^4)*(4!))^6)*(3!) considering symmetries, but still, it's not a very tractable number to actually test exhaustively - you need something smarter than brute force if you want to check for dangerous permutations, and it's pretty likely that something slips through that's more powerful than you aimed at... having most of them be low-synergy helps - as does being able to lump large numbers together as a single class - for example summon materia generally interact with support materia in pretty much the same way - you still need to vet the exceptions, but looking at "summons" rather than at "ifrit" and at "shiva" and so on massively reduces the effective number of cases - but it's still a lot to vet.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:28 pm UTC

I'm all about understanding that some people are going to minmax these games, but I think doing so as the primary critique of the game sort of whiffs on the thrust of the games. FF7 had a great plot, with great characters, and built a great world. That there exist MEGA HIGH investment end game items/combos that are omgpwnface doesn't bother me in the slightest. I certainly went for them, but only because I was in love with the plot and the characters and the world.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:51 pm UTC

I was referring to the 168 number when I said "Test every permutation". I would expect that as a matter of course for any professional game developer, just for the sake of ensuring the game's stability.

As for the larger space of the possible load outs, that can't be done exhaustively, but other things can be done like mathematically determine the strongest possible attack and compare that to what encounters are designed around.
rmsgrey wrote:KotR is pretty post-game (or at least very optional) considering it's at the end of an obscure side-quest chain...
I guess you and me have different perspectives. I consider doing whatever some hermit tells me to do the course of normal video game playing.
I'm all about understanding that some people are going to minmax these games, but I think doing so as the primary critique of the game sort of whiffs on the thrust of the games.
Agreed 100%. It was a great game, just not perfect in every aspect. I do believe we only got on this tangent by discussing what changes the developers could make for the remake.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Mishrak » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:24 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
mosc wrote:Folks, cmon. It's Final Fantasy. The game system is not balanced and it never mattered. In fact, I would argue that having a balanced game system is BORING. Inherent to the success of the final fantasy formula is small grinding removing difficulty directly and large grinding leading to humorous overkill.

This is a phenomenal description of not just FF games, but most RPGs.


Yeah, pretty much every FF game had catastrophically broken mechanics in them in some capacity or another. FF6 is a huge broken pile of crap when you look at the code. Just watch a Vanilla speed run of it these days. And it's heralded as probably the best rpg in the series, and one of the best rpgs of the SNES era.

Part of that, I think, is just the devs not having enough time to really go over balance passes the way they should. The publisher wants the game out yesterday and so the devs make it work as best they can.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Felstaff » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:07 pm UTC

So VII Remake is going to be episodic, ATB, not PlayStation-exclusive and will basically look like XV but with a scrawny spiky blond protagonist.

Looks pretty sweet.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:09 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:So VII Remake is going to be episodic, ATB, not PlayStation-exclusive and will basically look like XV but with a scrawny spiky blond protagonist.

Looks pretty sweet.

I don't mind episodic so much if the pricing plan is reasonable. And no DLC.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby New User » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:46 pm UTC

Not what I expected. But so far, it looks like it will be good. I'm going to start thinking of this not as a remake, but as a retelling of the same story. Since they started coming out with all the sequels and prequels for FFVII, the world has expanded quite a bit since the first game. I hope they include a little bit about that expanded world, but not enough to distract from the story of the original game too much. Maybe just have some sidequests and stuff that mentions Deepground and Angeal and whatever else they added in the other games, but without going overboard and making Angeal a major character or anything like that.

Also, I always thought of Barret as being a lot like Mr. T. In that trailer I just watched, he reminds me a lot more of Wesley Snipes in Blade.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Zohar » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:39 pm UTC

Non-exclusive - cool, I don't foresee buying another system in the near future. Hopefully it comes out on PC and mine can run it reasonably.
Episodic - meh? Like Izawwlgood mentioned it depends on the pricing. The original game was pretty long and I played it multiple times, hopefully they'll try to put enough in there for this one too.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Jorpho » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:36 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:So VII Remake is going to be episodic, ATB, not PlayStation-exclusive and will basically look like XV but with a scrawny spiky blond protagonist.

Looks pretty sweet.
What gave you the idea that it was ATB? Everyone seems to be comparing it to Kingdom Hearts so far.

I find myself entirely capable of resisting the hype.

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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Dark567 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:42 pm UTC

Making it episodice bothers me. I'd rather pay $120 or $160 or whatever and just get a complete game. FFVIIs world and story don't make sense to be episodic. I pretty much figured square would do every thing they could to screw this up and making it episodic is probably worse than I imagined.

Also the voice acting sounds trash.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:09 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:FFVIIs world and story don't make sense to be episodic. I pretty much figured square would do every thing they could to screw this up and making it episodic is probably worse than I imagined.
Just out of curiosity, are you forgetting that the original game came on 3 CDs?

Dark567 wrote:Also the voice acting sounds trash.
The voice acting in FF games has never been good.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Dark567 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:14 pm UTC

I remember it coming on 3 CDs, but the majority was really on the first two. If the game ends up as 3 episodes mayyybbbeee it will be okay.

FFVII didn't have voice acting, and was probably better for it.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:31 pm UTC

Breaking the game into three 'episodes' or three 'discs' is kind of a wash to me. It would suck if the pricing didn't reflect this, or if there was bullshit DLC, but that's true of all things.

A lot of subsequent FFs had voice acting. It always kind of sucks. I think I've by in large skipped over most of the voice acting favoring reading the dialog boxes quickly.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Zohar » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:35 pm UTC

I dunno, I didn't mind the voice acting. I think it was most grating in FFX but even then it felt fine, to me. As for episodes, well, if Starcraft II can do it, why not FF? As long as I get a solid number of hours out of each "episode", I don't mind. What does solid mean? I'm not sure. Ideally at least 40 per game.
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Re: Final Fantasy Omnithread - All FF, all the time.

Postby Jorpho » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:59 am UTC

Dark567 wrote:FFVIIs world and story don't make sense to be episodic.
Have you played the game lately? It couldn't be more episodic if they started out designing it that way. Maybe the world opens up a bit once you get the Highwind or the different-colored Chocobos, but not by much.

The latest frothing news is that it's going to have cheats built-in from the start, not unlike the current Steam release – instant HP/MP refilling and skipping of random battles. It seems very weird to me that this is one of the first features they are announcing.


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