Dota 2 : Dota Harder

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Sytri
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:09 pm UTC

I was using shadow blade for the sneaking rather than the speed. I went for sange and yasha after it.

But you were a prophet with regards to kiting by good players. Went up against a 4 man team and they destroyed me almost constantly. I'm going to go back to supports and randoms I think. Although I did random Dragon Knight and failed miserably with him. I cant use him effectively at all.
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:14 pm UTC

Stop randoming. Or if you trust your team, random first and then let the other 3-4 players balance out your team. But pick something to complement your team.

DK is a tanky carry. 1 point in stun or blood, it's safer to have the regen+ armor from dragon blood at level 1. Only 1 point of the stun is needed because it's 2 seconds at lvl 1 until you max everything else. Then you pick either dragon breath or blood depending on how bad you're doing. The worst you are doing, the more points you put into blood. Your ult is really key because it gives you so many buffs. You get bonus movement, extended range stun, and corrosive/aoe attack/slow.

I should start learning how to play a ganking hero, but I never did get the hang of smoke ganking.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Stop randoming. Or if you trust your team, random first and then let the other 3-4 players balance out your team. But pick something to complement your team.

DK is a tanky carry. 1 point in stun or blood, it's safer to have the regen+ armor from dragon blood at level 1. Only 1 point of the stun is needed because it's 2 seconds at lvl 1 until you max everything else. Then you pick either dragon breath or blood depending on how bad you're doing. The worst you are doing, the more points you put into blood. Your ult is really key because it gives you so many buffs. You get bonus movement, extended range stun, and corrosive/aoe attack/slow.

I should start learning how to play a ganking hero, but I never did get the hang of smoke ganking.


I like randoming if only so I can try out new characters and get a feel for them. Phantom Lancer is someone I like but seems like a massive carry until you can get yasha and at least wraith bands. The only problem I have with random is that it doesnt seem to use the entire pool as I keep coming back to characters I've played before. Is there a way to stop it doing that other than just pick a character you haven't played and work your way through?

Also, and this will sound nooby, how do I draw on the mini-map? or at least put my portrait on where I'm going? I've seen others do it but I cant find out how.
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Stop randoming. Or if you trust your team, random first and then let the other 3-4 players balance out your team. But pick something to complement your team.

DK is a tanky carry. 1 point in stun or blood, it's safer to have the regen+ armor from dragon blood at level 1. Only 1 point of the stun is needed because it's 2 seconds at lvl 1 until you max everything else. Then you pick either dragon breath or blood depending on how bad you're doing. The worst you are doing, the more points you put into blood. Your ult is really key because it gives you so many buffs. You get bonus movement, extended range stun, and corrosive/aoe attack/slow.

I should start learning how to play a ganking hero, but I never did get the hang of smoke ganking.


I like randoming if only so I can try out new characters and get a feel for them. Phantom Lancer is someone I like but seems like a massive carry until you can get yasha and at least wraith bands. The only problem I have with random is that it doesnt seem to use the entire pool as I keep coming back to characters I've played before. Is there a way to stop it doing that other than just pick a character you haven't played and work your way through?

Also, and this will sound nooby, how do I draw on the mini-map? or at least put my portrait on where I'm going? I've seen others do it but I cant find out how.
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

Please, do get diffusal first on PL. Always.

There is almost never a good reason to get a wraith band.

There is a "Least Played" mode.

You use ctrl or alt and clicks to do minimap stuff.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:26 pm UTC

The reason for diffusal blade is that each image gets the manaburn damage that diffusal brings to the table, so if you get 10 images, it's like hitting people with 10 diffusal blades, add the slow on top of that, and it's lethal to most heroes. After diffusal blade, you're suppose to go heart of torrasque, it makes your images tankier, so they can get more whacks in with manaburn and it lets you fight really long battles since you can duck in and out of combat to heal. Afterwards, you finish people with manta/butterfly/radiance. The idea is to throw images at people late game and siege them down.
The downside to this is you literally have to spend 30 minutes farming and being absolutely 0 use to your team. So your team has to fight a 4man battle while you farm a lane. At your skill level, feel free to ignore everything and just farm. Buy 2 tp scrolls, push up a lane, tp mid, push the lane, tp bot, buy 2 more tp scrolls, and then push another lane. Repeat until you have your diffusal + heart. Team push at that point. PL is a bit different from most carries in that it relies heavily on images to boost his dps, he's a melee carry and only has 1 slow/nuke. As you get into higher MMR, you'll get ganked more often, and they come with dust so you can't windwalk out of it. But at low skill levels, people take too long to buy dust when they gank, so you can just windwalk into some trees, and tp to another lane.

Btw, what's your MMR? Because this advice breaks down as you get higher, and you really need to exercise good judgment.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby SwiftSilent » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:05 am UTC

Forgive me for intruding in whatever discussiOn you guys were having. But I just downloaded Dito 2 on Steam. Are there any tips or tricks I should be aware of? Maybe some that'll get me ahead in the game? :)

Btw, I have no idea what this game is about or how to play it. So I'd appreciate any explanations I should be be aware of.

EDIT: After installing it on Steam, do I have to wait for another hour or so for the game to finish patching when I launch it or will it already be done?

Thx.


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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:01 am UTC

Click on Training in the Play tab. Go through the 10ish missions they provide you. You get a bunch of free items while learning the basic mechanics of the game.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby SwiftSilent » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Click on Training in the Play tab. Go through the 10ish missions they provide you. You get a bunch of free items while learning the basic mechanics of the game.

Ther are ten training missions! Well thanks for letting me know.

Also, how long fo these games last? I hear on League of Legends they take around thirty to forty minutes. Is it the same here?

BTW, aren't LoL and Dota kind of the same game? By any chance, do you think one cheated over the other?


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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:09 pm UTC

15 minutes to 1 hour.

Why dota players dislike Riot.

(and subjectively LoL seems like a much shallower game)

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby SwiftSilent » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:50 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:15 minutes to 1 hour.

Why dota players dislike Riot.

(and subjectively LoL seems like a much shallower game)

Interesting. Well, it looks like I'll need to have a lot of time on my hand to play this game.


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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:36 pm UTC

Free up a night, and play 3 games. Check how much time passed, and that's how much time you should bracket for 2 games.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:20 pm UTC


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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:46 am UTC

So I've been trying out PA again with going straight to diffusal blade and it's awesome! The build up is a bit painful depending on who's in your lane but once you're at lvl 11, people get scared :)

Also, Heart of Torasque (sp?) is fantastic! Is there a mana equivalent?
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:32 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:So I've been trying out PA again with going straight to diffusal blade and it's awesome! The build up is a bit painful depending on who's in your lane but once you're at lvl 11, people get scared :)

Also, Heart of Torasque (sp?) is fantastic! Is there a mana equivalent?

No. PA goes HOTD into Satanic via battlefury farm or BKB. PA relys on lifestealing to keep going in team fights, and you can't afford to waste time getting a diffusal AND a vlads. Vlads is a luxury item for supports to get, not you. Diffusal is best on heroes that spawn images or don't have a good slow. PA has blink and a slow, so diffusal isn't worth it. In addition, it eats up your special effect slot, which you only get one of, forcing you to rely on vlads, which eats another item slot. PA should roll into battle with a boots, tp scroll, bkb, and either a manta/mkb/battlefury for dps. Like you say, not having lifesteal makes your life painful. You lose out on the deception factor of (you being at low hp, someone engages you in combat, then critting lifesteal a large amount of hp back, which means their attack just got them killed, but you come out alive.
The theory is to only take physical damage, which evasion + high agility armor negates well, while smacking people down with dagger/blink. You can heal faster than they can tank your damage. Diffusal is bad because now you can't easily heal. Heart is for people who can't steal life, your goal is to steal more life than they can dish out.

There's no equvilant to heart, just lots of mana regen items which are superior.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:11 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
Sytri wrote:So I've been trying out PA again with going straight to diffusal blade and it's awesome! The build up is a bit painful depending on who's in your lane but once you're at lvl 11, people get scared :)

Also, Heart of Torasque (sp?) is fantastic! Is there a mana equivalent?

No. PA goes HOTD into Satanic via battlefury farm or BKB. PA relys on lifestealing to keep going in team fights, and you can't afford to waste time getting a diffusal AND a vlads. Vlads is a luxury item for supports to get, not you. Diffusal is best on heroes that spawn images or don't have a good slow. PA has blink and a slow, so diffusal isn't worth it. In addition, it eats up your special effect slot, which you only get one of, forcing you to rely on vlads, which eats another item slot. PA should roll into battle with a boots, tp scroll, bkb, and either a manta/mkb/battlefury for dps. Like you say, not having lifesteal makes your life painful. You lose out on the deception factor of (you being at low hp, someone engages you in combat, then critting lifesteal a large amount of hp back, which means their attack just got them killed, but you come out alive.
The theory is to only take physical damage, which evasion + high agility armor negates well, while smacking people down with dagger/blink. You can heal faster than they can tank your damage. Diffusal is bad because now you can't easily heal. Heart is for people who can't steal life, your goal is to steal more life than they can dish out.

There's no equvilant to heart, just lots of mana regen items which are superior.


Sorry, I meant Phantom Lancer; should probably wirte the full name next time.
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:38 pm UTC

That's not even a full name issue. =\
It be like calling Sniper SI or Storm Spirit shorthanded into SO. Anyway, you sound a lot less stupid now with PL. I still have no idea how you even get PA = PhAntom lancer???

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:05 am UTC

sardia wrote:That's not even a full name issue. =\
It be like calling Sniper SI or Storm Spirit shorthanded into SO. Anyway, you sound a lot less stupid now with PL. I still have no idea how you even get PA = PhAntom lancer???


It's because I was up against PA in the lane and was thinking about that.

I might have a go with PA if I get a chance this weekend.
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:14 pm UTC

sardia wrote: Diffusal is best on heroes that spawn images or don't have a good slow.

But that's wrong. Slark has a great root yet is an excellent diffusal wielder. It's also a very worthwhile pickup against omni or brood and suddenly worth it on many heroes. Hell, I recently went diffusal bounty hunter and did fine! The manaburn is debatably good against SK and medusa, too, but imho rarely worth it unless you manta too.

Crits and lifesteal are great and all, but if the guy pops guardian angel and you have no way to dispel it he is going to shit on you.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:58 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
sardia wrote: Diffusal is best on heroes that spawn images or don't have a good slow.

But that's wrong. Slark has a great root yet is an excellent diffusal wielder. It's also a very worthwhile pickup against omni or brood and suddenly worth it on many heroes. Hell, I recently went diffusal bounty hunter and did fine! The manaburn is debatably good against SK and medusa, too, but imho rarely worth it unless you manta too.

Crits and lifesteal are great and all, but if the guy pops guardian angel and you have no way to dispel it he is going to shit on you.

Diffusal's manaburn is for heroes that use images. I'd be hesitant to use diffusal on medusa, but I would advise not using diffusal on BH. BH gains no benefit from attack speed, instead it should use it's crit/slow to hit as hard as possible. Desolator is what BH should be getting. Diffusal is a very weak orb compared to Desolator if you hit 1-2 every 6 seconds. Diffusal is not debatably good against SK or dusa. Either you spawn images and it's good, or it's bad. Diffusal works well against Omni, Brood, and Warlock spells, but I wouldn't get diffusal except against omni. What was the opportunity cost of getting a diffusal on a support or carry instead of getting another dps item? It's nice to have diffusal against those heroes when you picked a hero that plans on taking advantage of diffusal. I wouldn't tell a lion or a Bh to grab diffusal just for the lulz. Against Omni, I'd make an exception. his repel is too strong to ignore. It does not work well against SK or medusa. Do not get diffusal on slark. It grants no extra hp except for the Expected HP that extra agility armor grants you. It doesn't improve your ult, it only increases your damage and slows, something a Skaadi, SNY or basher can do just as easily.

Btw, Crit is not an orb, so it doesn't factor into orb choices. Orbs matter, the game balanced around only allowing one of them in dota.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:05 am UTC

sardia wrote: Diffusal is a very weak orb compared to Desolator if you hit 1-2 every 6 seconds.


Someone else had desolator and I was rightclicking a lot in the late game (the game does go past the laning stage, you know), but okay.


Do not get diffusal on slark.


Okay I'm not going to bother arguing any more.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:00 am UTC

So continuing my life of DoTA 2 experiments, I played Lion for two nights, did quite well. Solo'd a lane against witch doctor and phantom lancer. (We had a pudge who refused to mid lane solo so we had omni babysit him. He still went 0-8, but whatever.)

The way I played was semi-support due to quick levelling and high cash. I ended up with lvl 5 Dagon, mekanism and tranquil boots. (Was a quick game due to pudge feeding)

Is that a good item set or should I be aiming for other things?

I'm just asking this as I'm at work so I can't access any DoTA sites.

Plus it keeps this ticking over and has people talking. :)
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:37 pm UTC

Mek is great. He does not really have a use for tranquils, and dagon 5 is more of a pubstomping item.

You might want to try mek, blink dagger then utility items like euls or atos.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:05 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:Mek is great. He does not really have a use for tranquils, and dagon 5 is more of a pubstomping item.

You might want to try mek, blink dagger then utility items like euls or atos.


See, I'm using tranquil to get health back if I lose it, should I be going power treads instead then?
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:15 am UTC

Sytri wrote:See, I'm using tranquil to get health back if I lose it, should I be going power treads instead then?


God no!

The choices are: tranquils if you roam a lot (your teammates might not like you using the courier for a 175 RoP), arcanes if no one else has any in your team, otherwise brown boots upgraded later into BoT.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:51 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
Sytri wrote:See, I'm using tranquil to get health back if I lose it, should I be going power treads instead then?


God no!

The choices are: tranquils if you roam a lot (your teammates might not like you using the courier for a 175 RoP), arcanes if no one else has any in your team, otherwise brown boots upgraded later into BoT.


Arcanes on Lion? I know he's a support but having something you have no use for? Do people really do that? I might just keep the boots to upgrade to BoT.
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Zcorp » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:00 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:God no!

The choices are: tranquils if you roam a lot (your teammates might not like you using the courier for a 175 RoP), arcanes if no one else has any in your team, otherwise brown boots upgraded later into BoT.

I disagree, tranquil boots are the go to boot for Lion. Not only do they give wonderful HP regen for roaming (with mana drain you rarely need to go back to fountain), they also add 4 armor and are the best MS of any boot, even while 'broken' (besides BoT). The armor and MS are even generally more valuable than the regen.

You can start with the Ring of Protection, even if you need to purchase both the early wards and courier it is worth picking it up. 175+150+150+125=600 (RoP,Courier, Wards, Tango), this gives you 50 gold to play with for either a clarity or a head start on those boots of Ring of regen. Of course both the Ring of Regen and Boots can be bought from the side shop, so you don't have to return or use courier to purchase them. The extra 2 armor from the RoP even helps quite a bit when trading blows with other heroes while harassing or in an early skirmish.

Sytri wrote:Arcanes on Lion? I know he's a support but having something you have no use for? Do people really do that? I might just keep the boots to upgrade to BoT.

Lion can gain quite a bit from Arcanes, they don't just give easy mana regen, they also increase his mana pool and give him greater move speed. The mana pool is incredibly useful, especially if you frequently find yourself unable to cast your ult after a stun and hex, or a second stun after you drop the other 3. I would even suggest these over the Tranquil boots until you can reliably get some Int item (like a force staff) early in the game.

Of course you will also want to get them if your team is in need of the mana they give them, this generally means you have STR heroes on your team that aren't getting their own Arcane boots.
Last edited by Zcorp on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:32 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:09 am UTC

Zcorp wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:God no!

The choices are: tranquils if you roam a lot (your teammates might not like you using the courier for a 175 RoP), arcanes if no one else has any in your team, otherwise brown boots upgraded later into BoT.

I disagree, tranquil boots are the go to boot for Lion. Not only do they give wonderful HP regen for roaming (with mana drain you rarely need to go back to fountain), they also add 4 armor and are the best MS of any boot, even while 'broken' (besides BoT). The armor and MS are even generally more valuable than the regen.

You can start with the Ring of Protection, even if you need to purchase both the early wards and courier it is worth picking them it up. 175+150+150+125=600 (RoP,Courier, Wards, Tango), this gives you 50 gold to play with for either a clarity or a head start on those boots of Ring of regen. Of course both the Ring of Regen and Boots can be bought from the side shop, so you don't have to return or use courier to purchase them. The extra 2 armor from the RoP even helps quite a bit when trading blows with other heroes while harassing or in an early skirmish.

Sytri wrote:Arcanes on Lion? I know he's a support but having something you have no use for? Do people really do that? I might just keep the boots to upgrade to BoT.

Lion can gain quite a bit from Arcanes, they don't just give easy mana regen, they also increase his mana pool and give him greater move speed. The mana pool is incredibly useful, especially if you frequently find yourself unable to cast your ult after a stun and hex, or a second stun after you drop the other 3. I would even suggest these over the Tranquil boots until you can reliably get some Int item (like a force staff) early in the game.

Of course you will also want to get them if your team is in need of the mana they give them, this generally means you have STR heroes on your team that aren't getting their own Arcane boots.


I'm glad you said tranquils are the go to. I had two matches and ended up with the same person on my team and they kept complaining about my choices, even though I went tranquil and had warded properly and got the courier. I think he was a bit upset that I got a few kills after lvl 6 after I teamed up with Mirana. So I shuold aim for tranquils unless I have a strength heavy team that will need the mana boost?
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Zcorp » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:30 am UTC

Sytri wrote: So I shuold aim for tranquils unless I have a strength heavy team that will need the mana boost?

Unless you have allies on your team that will benefit greatly by you purchasing them (which are frequently Strength heroes, but they are just one example), or if you find yourself frequently having max mana pool issues they would be a good pick up for you.

I doubt you are at a level of play that has organized push strats but you would probably want them in that situation as well.

So yes, in general - assuming you aren't having mana issues - aim for Tranquils. Sometimes you will want Arcanes but for that decision you will have to assess your teams line up.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:32 pm UTC

As a suppport, it's important not to steal kills with lion ult unless he'd get away otherwise. Ideally, you should be ulting them down to 1hp, so your carry will get the most gold out of your team.

On another note, I tried slark diffusal play last night. It worked out like I expected, boosted offense combined with impaired defense. Despite the low hp, I did love how it enabled the Pact>Pounce>autoattack>purge>pact>pounce>finish him. It made it dirt simple, usually I have to work at it a bit with orb of venom slow. I'll have to pair it with sange maim to get more consistent slow + more hp. I'll have to try again against a non-BS lineup, it really put a damper on my ult.

Remember, the tranquil changes means attacking/taking autoattack damage breaks the boots down to +25 ms. It's a much bigger penalty than before. The only nice thing is that it doesn't break on spell damage, so DOTS can't stop you from healing.

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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:48 pm UTC

sardia wrote:As a suppport, it's important not to steal kills with lion ult unless he'd get away otherwise. Ideally, you should be ulting them down to 1hp, so your carry will get the most gold out of your team.....



Oh yeah, I understand that a lot better now I've played about in all different areas, the problem I had with the person I was on a team with was that he didn't like anyone getting kills over him, even our other carry. When we got to team fights and I'd pick some off that were escaping (he was taking on others he'd just call me a noob, complain in general and that went on all match.

I do keep forgetting about not getting last hits on the creeps at the start though, but I'm getting better at that.


edited to correct myself.
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sardia
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:02 pm UTC

I play greedy with lion. If the carry isn't patrolling near the creeps, I'm gonna snag some cs. I don't follow advice with lion nearly as much as I should. I really should stun + ult first instead of doing the whole chain stun combo, since it gives a higher chance of the carry gaining the gold instead of me.

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Sytri
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:35 am UTC

Played a match last night as Ursa again. I like him, he's fun. What got me was that halfway through the match as I went to kill Rosh for the second time, my team mate said in team chat that he was amazed that I'd just solo'd Rosh. He didn't think it could be done. Had a great match apart from that though. We stomped them hard.

I'm thinking of giving Spirit Breaker a go, any tips?

(I'm trying out all the characters slowly, so I get a good feel.)
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

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Jesse
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Jesse » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:46 pm UTC

For SB you just want to be split pushing all the time, since your charge lets you jump into a teamfight from anywhere on the map with a fantastic stun at the same time. Also, if your team has some good aggressive warding you can catch your opponent's jungler in the early game, which is always nice.

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sardia
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:40 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:For SB you just want to be split pushing all the time, since your charge lets you jump into a teamfight from anywhere on the map with a fantastic stun at the same time. Also, if your team has some good aggressive warding you can catch your opponent's jungler in the early game, which is always nice.

It's so much weaker now that charge AND his ult can be interrupted. =( You still go MoM and vanguard?

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Menacing Spike
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:48 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:He didn't think it could be done

That's pretty funny as a large amount of heroes (lone druid, lycan, shadow shaman, venomancer, etc) can solo Roshan early, and do it in reasonable time with a medaillon.

I'm thinking of giving Spirit Breaker a go, any tips?

His ultimate has been nerfed and it is now fucking terrible. You need to keep vision of your target and not be interrupted during a long cast time.
You can use shadow blade while charging if you know they have wards. Also a good chunk of bonus damage.
Charging gives vision. Charge that riki your teammates are ganking on the other side of the map!
You have very low base attack time and don't scale that well. Let the real carries get the farm.

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sardia
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:41 pm UTC

By low, he means high, and by high, he means bad. Base attack time is the pause time between attacks, and SB attacks slower than others.
Charging to give vision got nerfed too. Remember when it gave truesight and normal vision? I also miss empowering haste giving damage. =(

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Menacing Spike
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:54 pm UTC

sardia wrote: Remember when it gave truesight and normal vision?


I guess you can still dust when you ram into something. Bah. And yes, high base attack time.

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Sytri
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby Sytri » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:26 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
sardia wrote: Remember when it gave truesight and normal vision?


I guess you can still dust when you ram into something. Bah. And yes, high base attack time.


The initial high attack time diminishes with empowering haste though doesn't it? I came out with 20 kills, mostly mid game. He gets killed quickly come late game though so you need him to finish the game quickly (19 deaths at the end). Maybe get mask of madness or vlad and armlet of mordiggan?

I think I spent too much time charging across the map to get a possible gank than sticking to my lane and going for kills and gear.

Will play a few more games and see what I can do. Do I aim to increase my speed as well as strength for the bonus attack power and ability to chase people down?
Apathy will kill us all. Or not. Whatever.

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sardia
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Re: Dota 2 : Dota Harder

Postby sardia » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:
sardia wrote: Remember when it gave truesight and normal vision?


I guess you can still dust when you ram into something. Bah. And yes, high base attack time.


The initial high attack time diminishes with empowering haste though doesn't it? I came out with 20 kills, mostly mid game. He gets killed quickly come late game though so you need him to finish the game quickly (19 deaths at the end). Maybe get mask of madness or vlad and armlet of mordiggan?

I think I spent too much time charging across the map to get a possible gank than sticking to my lane and going for kills and gear.

Will play a few more games and see what I can do. Do I aim to increase my speed as well as strength for the bonus attack power and ability to chase people down?

No, emp haste only increases move speed. You need attack speed, and movement speed. The reason people go MoM on bara is that it gives 3 things he desperately needs, move speed, attack speed, and lifesteal.

Does BKB still prevent the extra damage taken from MoM?


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