xkcd

by **maybeagnostic** » Thu May 10, 2012 4:11 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Tech armor slows down power use. Bad bad!

What does that mean exactly? It slows power use by 60% but I don't actually notice a difference with or without the thing.

by **Chen** » Thu May 10, 2012 4:31 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:
Yakk wrote:Tech armor slows down power use. Bad bad!
What does that mean exactly? It slows power use by 60% but I don't actually notice a difference with or without the thing.

Even without the last evolution (-30% cooldown penalty reduction) there really isn't a noticeable difference if you're at 200% recharge due to your weapons. If you're lower in weapon recharge it DOES become fairly noticeable. I'm not sure how the calculation is done but I've found it very worthwhile when I've maxed my weapon recharge.

by **Ryom** » Thu May 10, 2012 8:15 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:The one class I have never seen be useful in a gold game is the vanguard. The one exception was probably a vanguard with N7 Valiant X + level III weapon and ammo equipment who only ever charged enemies that were about to overrun our position and immediately got back under cover. Even then he would be shot down half the time he charged. I thought he was a soldier until wave 7 or 8.

I use Human Vanguard frequently on gold and it's an incredibly powerful class there. Krogan Vanguard as well. Asari and Drell Vanguards have their uses, but are generally outclassed by Novaguards and Kroguards. If a teammate has reave and the vanguard has area charge/nova, you'll get some of the fierciest biotic explosions you'll ever see. Honestly any class is viable, just some are more powerful than others. I was running a Turian soldier and scoring 100,000 and better on Gold... no biotic explosions and only a Hurricane and proxy mine to kill with. Watch each other's backs and you can run whatever you like. The more infilitrators in the game, the harder it is on other players because ALL the aggro gets dumped onto them when their teammates cloak. If there is a squishy class with 3 infiltrators you'll see them drop A LOT.

Yakk wrote:Warp/Throw is the highest damage output combo in the game at gold.

This is not true anymore. Shockwave was buffed so now Warp/Shockwave provides the deadliest biotic explosions.

My Origin name is AfZ_Ryom if anyone wants to have some games around 10 pm eastern and later any day... on gold.

by **Yakk** » Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 pm UTC

Shockwave: 8 second base, 65% recharge boost
Throw: 4 seconds base, 85% recharge boost
Warp: 16 seconds base (or is it 8?), 60% rechrage boost

With 200% item based recharge: 2.2 seconds on Shockwave, 1.0 seconds on Throw, 4.4 (or is it 2.2?) seconds on Warp

Throw Range: Line of Sight. Shockwave range: Ridiculously short.

Throw+Warp = 6.6 seconds (or 4.4?)
Shockwave+Warp = 5.4 seconds (or 3.2?)
22% more (38%?) more explosions per second.

Both have the same +50% damage boosts. So the difference is that shockwave does base damage, while throw doesn't really.

I stand by my claim -- warp+throw does the best damage output in the game. And regardless, shockwaves abysmal range means you only get to attack things already in a "you are dead" range on gold.

by **Thesh** » Thu May 10, 2012 11:27 pm UTC

Not sure about multiplayer, but in sp, shockwave has the advantage of being able to go through walls and cover, which I found extremely useful (half the popping out of cover!).

by **Ryom** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:14 am UTC

Yakk wrote:Shockwave: 8 second base, 65% recharge boost
Throw: 4 seconds base, 85% recharge boost
Warp: 16 seconds base (or is it 8?), 60% rechrage boost

With 200% item based recharge: 2.2 seconds on Shockwave, 1.0 seconds on Throw, 4.4 (or is it 2.2?) seconds on Warp

Throw Range: Line of Sight. Shockwave range: Ridiculously short.

Throw+Warp = 6.6 seconds (or 4.4?)
Shockwave+Warp = 5.4 seconds (or 3.2?)
22% more (38%?) more explosions per second.

Both have the same +50% damage boosts. So the difference is that shockwave does base damage, while throw doesn't really.

I stand by my claim -- warp+throw does the best damage output in the game. And regardless, shockwaves abysmal range means you only get to attack things already in a "you are dead" range on gold.

I noticed you didn't account for enemies dodging warp and throw half the time or better, that's two casts and BOTH are dodge-able. Reave and Charge/Nova would provide the best guaranteed damage over time. Stasis/Warp Bubble and Reave would be a decent substitution if there is no Vanguard. Shockwave and warp provides the highest single biotic explosion damage. Warp and throw are quick but both can be (and are) dodged and this combo's main benefit being it is available to a single player. I roll warp and throw with a sentinel, but it's hardly the "one true way" of BE.

And yes, shockwave works through cover in MP.

by **Chen** » Fri May 11, 2012 11:46 am UTC

Yakk wrote:Both have the same +50% damage boosts. So the difference is that shockwave does base damage, while throw doesn't really.

I stand by my claim -- warp+throw does the best damage output in the game. And regardless, shockwaves abysmal range means you only get to attack things already in a "you are dead" range on gold.

Shockwave's detonation bonus was increased to 65% in the last patch wasn't it? Technically Shockwave (with the lift power) + Throw would probably be the biggest explosions (assuming the lift power doesn't compete with the detonation one, I never use shockwave).

by **SlyReaper** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:00 pm UTC

I just survived my first gold match! I was playing a quarian infiltrator on firebase white against geth. As was suggested here, we camped the room at the bottom, and as a result, we had surprisingly few deaths.

A question about the sabotage power: has it been nerfed recently? I find it only causes an enemy geth to turn friendly about half the time now.

Oh and of course, being the newbie to gold matches, my points score was the lowest in the team. But at least I think I'm capable of getting that commendation pack this weekend now.

by **Yakk** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:05 pm UTC

I think units gain immunity to it after they get hacked once or twice? Dunno.

by **SlyReaper** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:08 pm UTC

I thought of that, which is why for the past few games, I've not been using it on the same geth twice. Same result.

by **Chen** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:11 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:I think units gain immunity to it after they get hacked once or twice? Dunno.

I think it might be more than twice but it definitely has diminishing returns the more you hack something. From what I've seen it tends to always hit the unit but once hits been hit enough the duration is extremely short (less than a second). Can still be used to interrupt things it seems though.

Demolished one of the gold geth farming games yesterday too. Its pretty absurd how easy it is with 2 Salarian Infiltrators, 1 Salarian Engineer and 1 Geth Infiltrator. Between the Turrets and Decoys we barely took any damage. The only time there was even a remote risk of losing was when we had to run from the cover room up the stairs to a hack location. The location had 1 prime, 3 pyros and 2 hunters at it along with more reinforcements coming in. Of course one rocket easily cleared that and then we just bunkered down there. I find that's also an extremely safe location to camp, though getting shots off are more difficult due to the stairs going up and down. Probably why the bottom room is chosen over it. That area might be a better one to hold with adepts though. The small narrow corridors make biotic explosions extremely efficient.

by **Yakk** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:19 pm UTC

I find being outside the small room at the bottom, peering around the corner, gives me lots of good sight lines on the flank of the small room. I can drop stasis bubbles on troops dropping down from the gangway above the "stupid player camping spot", I can hit people coming down the ladder, I can hit people coming down the side ladder from the landing pad, etc.

Usually, I can hold that entire flank by my lonesome as an adept (the people in the room get to shoot out at some folk coming down the stairs, and sometimes an enemy or two will manage to get past my gauntlet and enter the room).

And in the event that I'm overrun (against geth, due to multiple hunters and pyros coming out of the "bottom of ladder from landing pad" at once, while a prime is mostly keeping me pinned, and rocket troopers I haven't killed are still shooting at me -- which means I cannot afford to expose myself to stasis bubble/explode the hunters, and warp/throw the pyros), I can retreat back to the room and let my group know that the flank has been overrun (while taking a few out as I retreat behind more corners).

by **ArgonV** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:29 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:A question about the sabotage power: has it been nerfed recently? I find it only causes an enemy geth to turn friendly about half the time now.

I dunno, but I was playing an Adept yesterday and most of my powers were not hitting. I know warp and throw can be dodged, but they weren't dodged, just not connecting. Only travelling in a straight line did they hit, as soon as I tried curving them, they'd miss. Which made stasis or opportunistic shots my only feasible strategy, which isn't optimal as adept vs Reapers.

by **Chen** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:34 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:I find being outside the small room at the bottom, peering around the corner, gives me lots of good sight lines on the flank of the small room. I can drop stasis bubbles on troops dropping down from the gangway above the "stupid player camping spot", I can hit people coming down the ladder, I can hit people coming down the side ladder from the landing pad, etc.

Usually, I can hold that entire flank by my lonesome as an adept (the people in the room get to shoot out at some folk coming down the stairs, and sometimes an enemy or two will manage to get past my gauntlet and enter the room).

And in the event that I'm overrun (against geth, due to multiple hunters and pyros coming out of the "bottom of ladder from landing pad" at once, while a prime is mostly keeping me pinned, and rocket troopers I haven't killed are still shooting at me -- which means I cannot afford to expose myself to stasis bubble/explode the hunters, and warp/throw the pyros), I can retreat back to the room and let my group know that the flank has been overrun (while taking a few out as I retreat behind more corners).

Yeah having someone outside the room behind those boxes is very good too. An adept and/or infiltrator can hold that line pretty well. I think its actually faster if someone is out there than if everyone is in the room (also less risk of Primes getting through the bottom entrance of the room which is generally not a good thing).

by **Yakk** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:33 pm UTC

I use the corner rather than the boxes. Further back, better sight lines to the "top" of one of the ladders, and cover in ME3 is pretty binary (even though it looks like you should be shootable, the wall magically gives you cover).

by **ArgonV** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:52 pm UTC

Mass Effect squadmate cocktails. I've tried a Quad Kicker (with a hangover already). It's.. interesting. Very rough, worthy of a Krogan.

by **Ryom** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:50 am UTC

If anyone here is playing on PC, throw me a friend invite. Always looking for more players in my circle of acquaintances. AfZ_Ryom on Origin. The gold extraction challenge is on and I'd like a few rounds with some XKCDers.

by **Yakk** » Sat May 12, 2012 3:03 pm UTC

Downloading the DLC really helps with being able to find games, btw. :p

by **Feonir** » Sat May 12, 2012 11:46 pm UTC

Likewise I am Feonir44 on orangesteam (pc) always looking for teammates who dont sit on my infiltraitor guiding rockets into the back of his head on gold as I cloak disarm the 10 second objectives.

by **Xanthir** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:12 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Shockwave's detonation bonus was increased to 65% in the last patch wasn't it? Technically Shockwave (with the lift power) + Throw would probably be the biggest explosions (assuming the lift power doesn't compete with the detonation one, I never use shockwave).

As far as I know, Shockwave's lift upgrade isn't a "real" lift - it doesn't prime the enemy for an explosion. I was very disappointed to learn this, as without the detonation setup all it really does is make the enemy harder to shoot.

(The lift upgrade doesn't conflict with the detonation upgrade, though.)

by **Ryom** » Mon May 14, 2012 6:54 pm UTC

I've heard some people claim to be able to detonate the lift evolution, but I haven't been able to verify it myself. The lift is really brief however, and that limits its usefulness a bit.

by **Yakk** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:21 pm UTC

And lift as a primer only works on non-shielded, non-armored enemies, right?

By the time biotic combos start doing decent damage compared to non-combos, such enemies are rare -- and they get ridiculously rare by the late waves of Gold, which are the ones you want to optimize for.

by **SlyReaper** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:26 pm UTC

I got to the end of wave 10 on gold. The final enemy goes down. My computer crashes.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

by **Ryom** » Mon May 14, 2012 9:59 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:And lift as a primer only works on non-shielded, non-armored enemies, right?

By the time biotic combos start doing decent damage compared to non-combos, such enemies are rare -- and they get ridiculously rare by the late waves of Gold, which are the ones you want to optimize for.

Not following you on that one Yakk... the BEs and TEs are second only to Claymore/Widow hits in pure damage, which aren't AOE like BE and TE. And BE an TE scale damage based on difficulty (they do more damage on gold than on bronze). Proper Biotic Explosions will absolutely shred banshees on Gold (Reave/Warp + Nova). Nova will even detonate the Banshee's own Warp

by **Yakk** » Mon May 14, 2012 10:13 pm UTC

In Bronze/Silver, biotic explosions are not really worth bothering about. Weapon damage output and raw power damage output will match or exceed them. In silver, a vanguard who doesn't use any BE's will do more damage than my Asari adept -- or at least a similar amount.

In Gold, Biotic Explosions dominate.

If I remember rightly, Lift only works on unarmored and unshielded and unbarriered enemies. Which means that it does nothing against most enemies on Gold -- and what is worse, it does even less by the time you hit the later waves of Gold. Basically, lift based powers are only useful to trigger biotic explosions.

So shockwave's lift as a primer does not matter at the level of play where what powers prime, and which do not, really matters. Because it doesn't work on the targets you care about.

Reave/Warp are two powers biotic triggers that land on even armored or shielded enemies. They, and Stasis (which works on shielded enemies at least), makes them the only primers really worth thinking about (I believe justicar's bubble can apply warp). Lift is not a viable primer -- it is only a viable biotic trigger. And shockwave already triggers without lift. (I suppose you could get lucky, and have a shockwave blow up some people's shields down to health, leaving a lift behind, that someone else triggers because they where shooting a power to explode what was there before -- but that is a pretty long list of chance events...)

by **Ryom** » Tue May 15, 2012 3:14 am UTC

I was pleasantly surprised with my Geth Engineer with the Scorpion pistol (shoots sticky grenades/mines). Between a healing/flame turret to use as bait and the stagger and panic of the mines he held off enemies very nicely.

We actually made a successful extraction, even though the names are red:
http://bitjumble.com/files/games/mass_e ... -28-67.png

by **MisterCheif** » Thu May 17, 2012 1:41 am UTC

Well, I finally got this, and though I haven't played too much yet, I'm liking the story so far.
It's also running very well, with the exception of some odd stretched polygons. But of course, I am running this on a GPU that I am pretty sure is below the minimum requirements (Radeon HD 2600 XT), so some problems are to be expected.

by **SlyReaper** » Sat May 19, 2012 6:52 pm UTC

I find myself unable to complete any gold game that isn't Firebase White Geth Gold. There seems to be a standard well-known strategy for completing FBWGG, which is to hunker down in the bottom room and the cover just outside. It gives the enemy only two approaches, both of which are in front of you. In all the other maps, everyone just runs off and does their own thing, and we all get slaughtered around Wave 6.

by **ArgonV** » Sun May 20, 2012 12:07 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I find myself unable to complete any gold game that isn't Firebase White Geth Gold. There seems to be a standard well-known strategy for completing FBWGG, which is to hunker down in the bottom room and the cover just outside. It gives the enemy only two approaches, both of which are in front of you. In all the other maps, everyone just runs off and does their own thing, and we all get slaughtered around Wave 6.

I completed Reapers on Ghost on Gold, you just need a good team, that sticks together. I was able to do it with some help from players here, so maybe we can get 4 people together some times to play a round?

by **Feonir** » Sun May 20, 2012 12:20 pm UTC

Have faith my friend, gold waves can be done on something other then Geth and firebase White. In fact...

This is the team we started the game with. Ping me, I am always up for gold games that are not firebase white. I am also up for gold games that ARE firebase white but cerb or reapers.

by **An Enraged Platypus** » Sun May 20, 2012 12:22 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I find myself unable to complete any gold game that isn't Firebase White Geth Gold. There seems to be a standard well-known strategy for completing FBWGG, which is to hunker down in the bottom room and the cover just outside. It gives the enemy only two approaches, both of which are in front of you. In all the other maps, everyone just runs off and does their own thing, and we all get slaughtered around Wave 6.

I completed Reapers on Ghost on Gold, you just need a good team, that sticks together. I was able to do it with some help from players here, so maybe we can get 4 people together some times to play a round?

At the risk of reaching 'please respond' levels of issuing unheeded invitations, I am completely down with gold runs.

by **Eheu** » Sun May 20, 2012 3:44 pm UTC

I'd be up for gold runs here and there, time allowing. I'm KyberMoros on Origin.

by **SlyReaper** » Sun May 20, 2012 4:08 pm UTC

My Origin name is TomSurman. If anyone feels like holding my hand through a gold game that isn't FBWGG, I'd be more than happy to come along.

by **Ryom** » Sun May 20, 2012 10:20 pm UTC

Just did a gold geth run with some fancy folks from XKCD (feonir and maybeagnostic), lots o' fun had.

by **Feonir** » Sun May 20, 2012 11:34 pm UTC

Ryom wrote:Just did a gold geth run with some fancy folks from XKCD (feonir and maybeagnostic), lots o' fun had.

I maintain Phantoms do infact taste like candy.

by **ArgonV** » Wed May 23, 2012 5:44 pm UTC

BioWare wrote: OPERATION SHIELDWALL

The Reapers are targeting our training centers, and your mission is to draw their fire and attention. Put them on the defensive! Buy us time, and the reinforcements in training will soon back you up.

Allied Goal: Promote 50,000 characters.
Squad Goal: Promote 3 characters.
Special Circumstance: Due to the failure of Operation SILENCER, more banshees will spawn with Reaper enemies and might also spawn with other enemies.

Squad Goal Success: Squad members awarded a Commendation Pack.
Allied Goal Success: All players awarded a Victory Pack (high chance of containing a Rare weapon).

by **SlyReaper** » Wed May 23, 2012 5:47 pm UTC

Seems a ridiculously easy set of goals this week. Last time, they set a goal that was impossible, and now they swing too far the other way?

Ah well, I'm not complaining. I already have 2 characters at level 20, I'll just wait until the weekend to promote them. Then I only have to level up and promote one character.

by **ArgonV** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:21 pm UTC

Yeah, basically promote 3 characters = N7 weapon. Lots of people will do that. I'd imagine

by **An Enraged Platypus** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:54 pm UTC

I'm really puzzled as to why human adepts are so underrepresented in MP. They have the best ability of anyone to self biotic combo, they can evasion roll, and they can break out of Banshee death-hands by way of Tech Armor (if you're quick). What's not to love?

by **ArgonV** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:08 pm UTC

An Enraged Platypus wrote:I'm really puzzled as to why human adepts are so underrepresented in MP. They have the best ability of anyone to self biotic combo, they can evasion roll, and they can break out of Banshee death-hands by way of Tech Armor (if you're quick). What's not to love?

Tech armor? That's a sentinel thing, right? And how does that work? Detonate it?

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