Sim City

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Xeio
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Sim City

Postby Xeio » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:35 am UTC

I'm just going to kick this off way too early with OMGFINALLYWOO. I thought this series was dead after they released Societies.

I'm curious about the multiplayer, but I guess we'll find out more details over the next... uh... year.

Also, apparently you can already pre-order it... :roll:

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Re: Sim City

Postby EvanED » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:09 am UTC

Xeio wrote:I'm just going to kick this off way too early with OMGFINALLYWOO. I thought this series was dead after they released Societies.

So with the caveat that I haven't actually played it, my impression is that you mean "before they released Societies" :-).

Anyway, that's pretty cool. I didn't know they were coming out with another. I go on very occasional gaming binges for a couple days, and SimCity is one of the ones I've done that too.

I'm skeptical of the MP though. But I think that's just my general distrust of it bleeding through to this specific case.

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Re: Sim City

Postby Manial » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:24 am UTC

I'm cautiously optimistic about this. On one hand, it's being developed by Maxis again (Societies was the only main series game not developed by Maxis), and it sound like they're aiming for something much more like SC4 than Societies.

On the other hand, it's not even going to be released this year and they've already announced DLC. Apparently there's also going to be social media integration, which makes me worried that they'll make the game simpler to appeal to casual crowds.

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Re: Sim City

Postby EvanED » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:30 am UTC

Manial wrote:On the other hand, it's not even going to be released this year and they've already announced DLC. Apparently there's also going to be social media integration, which makes me worried that they'll make the game simpler to appeal to casual crowds.

On the plus side, according to the FAQ it'll be a PC-only title, so they're not going to have to simplify for the console.

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Re: Sim City

Postby Koa » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:07 am UTC

If this was announced before Spore/Darkspore and before EA turned evil again, I'd be excited.

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Re: Sim City

Postby Adam H » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:39 pm UTC

wikipedia wrote:In multi-player mode, different players can build different cities in a region. In single player mode, the prices of certain resources will be retrieved online.

This version of SimCity makes use of resources which are finite.
I think this sounds awesome. One thing I didn't really like about SC4 was that I couldn't just build a cool city, I felt like I had to build a cool region, which took too long for my attention span. Having the feeling of cooperating with neighbors adds a lot, IMO, even if it's just a fluctuating resource price in single player mode.
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Re: Sim City

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:45 am UTC

In SC4, I REALLY missed the territory randomiser of the previous incarnations. But it still made hours vanish better than sleep.

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Re: Sim City

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:53 am UTC

wikipedia wrote:In multi-player mode, different players can build different cities in a region. In single player mode, the prices of certain resources will be retrieved online.

This version of SimCity makes use of resources which are finite.
That better not imply you need an always-on connection to play single player. :evil:
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Re: Sim City

Postby SoapyHobo » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:24 am UTC

Here's a couple of interesting videos (okay, it's just one in four parts) about the new system they're using, from GDC:
Part 1 2 3 4
The dev team also answered a load of questions from people on Reddit, you can see their responses (and thus avoid all the pointless comments) here.

Can't wait to see how this turns out, it looks like they know what they're doing and what fans want, hope it stays that way.
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Re: Sim City

Postby CombustibleLemons » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:28 pm UTC

This game looks so good. I can't wait.
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Re: Sim City

Postby Jebobek » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:41 pm UTC

SimCityEA's account on youtube is coming out with some great "inside look" videos. One recent video is about controlling agents which fuel the Residential-Industrial-Commercial loop. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxTcm1YFKcU

I like how each vehicle on the road matters: that it no longer "represents" traffic but is an agent that "leads to" traffic. On an interstate, I always wonder why the road is crowded with so many truckers. They're obviously going SOMEWHERE important, which is exactly what this simulation will show.

I hope that this GlassBox game engine works well with mid-range processor speeds.
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Re: Sim City

Postby darkone238 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:22 pm UTC

PhoenixEnigma wrote:
wikipedia wrote:In multi-player mode, different players can build different cities in a region. In single player mode, the prices of certain resources will be retrieved online.

This version of SimCity makes use of resources which are finite.
That better not imply you need an always-on connection to play single player. :evil:

According to Wikipedia, it will
A) Launch exclusively from Origin
B) Require being online to launch

Edit: But it will not require being online continuously to play.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/sim-city-5/1221798p1.html

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Re: Sim City

Postby Xeio » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:38 am UTC

http://www.simcity.com/en_US/media/video

Another video showing off some inter-city play. So it seems like cities in a region are pretty close to seamless, and share utilities and stuff at will. I wonder if the price between cities for stuff like power is set, or can be managed, and that they just don't have that to demo yet... I mean, if another city in the region just starts siphoning off your utilities that would be annoying...

So who wants to start a region once this comes out? :P

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Re: Sim City

Postby eculc » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:07 am UTC

I can only assume that the price can be set between cities.

Every time I see more of this game, I get more and more excited for its release. only 4 months to go!
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Sim City

Postby Coin » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:00 pm UTC

I too am becoming increasingly excited about this game. However, Origin is still holding me back from embracing it with both arms. I have no love for their framework and do now wish to have it on my computer.
Maybe is to just download Origin right away and try to get used to it as a form of "cognitive therapy" ?
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Re: Sim City

Postby eculc » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:54 pm UTC

or just wait until release and then download it. I have it on my PC from downloading BF1942 and I just ignore it - pretending it's not there works wonders.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Sim City

Postby EvanED » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:50 pm UTC

Origin itself so far doesn't seem too awful to me (I have it for ME3) aside from the fact that the offline mode is broken (it doesn't stay offline, so I "have to" open Origin, play my game, than exit origin).

For me the deal-breaker for a while will be that even if you play it like a single-player game it requires always-online access. I'll buy it when it's on sale for $20 or something. Maybe $30.

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Re: Sim City

Postby eculc » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:57 pm UTC

It's been confirmed that you don't need always-online access. all you need to do is be online to start it up, but if you are no longer connected while playing that's OK.

in other words, alt-tab rather than save&quit.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Sim City

Postby EvanED » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:57 pm UTC

That's close enough; that's like saying "I don't like to be kicked" and you saying "hey, I said I'll punch you". :-)

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Re: Sim City

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:11 pm UTC

WOW!!!

Saw some youtube videos about the game.. I'm IN!

We need and XKCD region on day one... sign me up, game looks epic.
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Re: Sim City

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:12 pm UTC

eculc wrote:It's been confirmed that you don't need always-online access. all you need to do is be online to start it up, but if you are no longer connected while playing that's OK.

in other words, alt-tab rather than save&quit.

Source? The most recent and reliable info I've seen on this (the dev's AmA on reddit a couple days ago) is that "We will allow you to play for as long as we can preserve your game state. This will most likely be minutes. "

Unless they measure their weeks in minutes, too, that's effectively always-online. Which in turn, as much as I loved the older SimCity games, means no way in hell.
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Re: Sim City

Postby eculc » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:27 pm UTC

Source:

darkone238, about 8 posts ago wrote:According to Wikipedia, it will
A) Launch exclusively from Origin
B) Require being online to launch

Edit: But it will not require being online continuously to play.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/sim-city-5/1221798p1.html


Now, if the Dev's AMA says differently then I can only assume that that's correct, but I was going off of the information I had before that.

In all honesty, I don't really see why everyone is complaining about always-online requirement. I mean, it might be a bit of an annoyance (to some, I don't see it being a problem for me), but so is the fact that you can't use a mouse+keyboard when playing Console games (again, to some), and I don't see any level of complaint about that...maybe just because it's starting to happen more often now, when it didn't before?
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

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Re: Sim City

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:10 pm UTC

Because killing time playing Sim City while waiting for the internet installer to show up is a time honored tradition.


Really, it boils down to this - Am I playing the game in some kind of communal city mode, essentially playing it Online?

Yes? Then I'm online. Problem solved.

No? Why the fuck do I need to be online?

This is not a case of why should we justify a game to be offline, this is motherfucking them needing to justify why the fuck what is essentially a Single Player Game to have any sort of connection to the Internet beyond a "Check for Updates" button. That I push when I want to check for goddamn updates. This is a case of "Fuck you and stay the fuck off my pipe until I fucking invite you to use it"

... look at me, as if I've given a shit about Sim City since 1999.
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Re: Sim City

Postby nitePhyyre » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:04 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:No? Why the fuck do I need to be online?
Piracy.

No, it isn't a great solution, but it really shouldn't be boggling your mind.
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Re: Sim City

Postby Nylonathatep » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:54 am UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YceL2C4TW4Q

So Sim City abandoned the Grid style of play and op to be more like City Xl... enabling curved roads and just have Zone attached to roads. Also no pipes! I'll say that a major improvement. I'm still not sure how zoning would developed in the later stage of the game (in Sim City 4, when demand & land value hits to a certain point... the zone merges to form apartment and highrises... not sure if they still can do that in Sim City 5)

I also don't like how they have to deal with sewage and waste that early in the game. Hopefully there'll be sufficient revenue for a player to deal with them.

It looks like Maxis is encouraging it's players to build certain types of Cities instead of going for a generic city. I think the seed of the idea begins in Sim City 4 where supposly players are suppose to develop the whole entire region, thus perpetuation in an endless cycle of demand for zones so the whole region grows. Players are still suck in Sim City 3 mod, and instead turn to addons to artificially generate demands and in turn build their dream metropolis.

It's a welcoming change, and maxis is trying to changes the mindset of players just packing in as much population into a zone as possible. Still I'm uncertain and will be disappointed if Sim City 5 just forces its players to build in it's preset archetypes (Industrial/Commercial/Education/Casino/Tourist town). Hopefully Maxis would give its players some leeway and wiggle room between each archetypes, mix and match a bit, so that each town would be unique in it's own way... and more archetypes ofcourse (Hollywood town? Farmville?)

Scenario actually appears in Sim City 2... (1960 Flint, LA after earthquake, Tokyo after an alien invasion)... I hope they'll make a comeback in Sim City 5. They should also take a page out of Tropico and have certain events come up and let the players decide on it's course of action, with different outcome. That'll definately make the game more interesting.

Finally they should have an expansion set that let the players play a first person GTA style game inside their own city, just like Sim City 4 Rush Hour. Say the player got knocked out, left in the back ally to die but some one saved him... he woke up with no idea who he was... meanwhile the Mayor of the city went missing and the player is caught in a power struggle between different factions of the city while trying to find out who he really was. How he build the city would affect how he did in the game... for example... if he take up a job delivering Pizza... if he made the city with constant gridlock he'll have a hard type trying to deliver within 30 minutes. If he decided to join a gang but his city has good police coverage... he'll have a harder time trying to do mission to prove his worth to his gang with all that police presences. If his city got a Casino... he could play poker or slots in it.. and there would even be Casino missions... or whatever landmarks he has build in the city!

Anyways... I'm just looking forward to building my Slum City... heavy polluting industries, Risky and high pollution Power Generators, garbage incinerators, landfills, Crime... with the goal in mind to rake in as much profit as possible!

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Re: Sim City

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:29 am UTC

I think initially, your city will dig for gold or mine copper or whatever to start off the economy and build up, and start generating enough revenue that by the time the oil runs out it can survive on tourism or whatever.

I just hope they fix the pathing AI for the roads, so that people use the expensive subway and bus system I just built instead of clogging up the roads. Why you no take bus? WAI NOT?

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Re: Sim City

Postby PhoenixEnigma » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:52 am UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:Finally they should have an expansion set that let the players play a first person GTA style game inside their own city, just like Sim City 4 Rush Hour. Say the player got knocked out, left in the back ally to die but some one saved him... he woke up with no idea who he was... meanwhile the Mayor of the city went missing and the player is caught in a power struggle between different factions of the city while trying to find out who he really was. How he build the city would affect how he did in the game... for example... if he take up a job delivering Pizza... if he made the city with constant gridlock he'll have a hard type trying to deliver within 30 minutes. If he decided to join a gang but his city has good police coverage... he'll have a harder time trying to do mission to prove his worth to his gang with all that police presences. If his city got a Casino... he could play poker or slots in it.. and there would even be Casino missions... or whatever landmarks he has build in the city!


On a similar note, if they come out with Simcopter 2 as an add-on, I'll jump on that. It's about the only thing that could get me to buy Sim City, but I really, really doubt I could hold myself back from the choppery goodness.
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Re: Sim City

Postby Jack21222 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:40 am UTC

It's an Origin-only game? Similar DRM to Diablo 3? Looks like I won't be buying it then.
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Re: Sim City

Postby Nylonathatep » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:42 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I think initially, your city will dig for gold or mine copper or whatever to start off the economy and build up, and start generating enough revenue that by the time the oil runs out it can survive on tourism or whatever.

I just hope they fix the pathing AI for the roads, so that people use the expensive subway and bus system I just built instead of clogging up the roads. Why you no take bus? WAI NOT?


In the youtube video I linked... the guy build some industrial zone and commercial zone, even thought he said he'll make a casino city. So yes you'll need to start out a generic, profitable city before you can shape it to your liking.

Another video shows that they've completely revamp the whole system by using a new game engine. Basically They simulate what each sim does in Sim city... he/she will wake up each day and find they'll all try to find the quickest route to get to a job... and same thing when they get home when work ends... similarly they look for commercial zone to do shopping as well as entertainment the same way. Units of Water, Trash, sewage works the same way. I seriously haven't see how public transportation would work thou as the demo only shows people riding cars.

There's an addon call Network addon mod that fixes the problem you describe thou for Sim City 4.
Last edited by Nylonathatep on Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:36 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sim City

Postby Xeio » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:12 am UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:Another video shows that they've completely revamp the whole system by using a new game engine. Basically They simulate what each sim does in Sim city... he/she will wake up each day and find they'll all try to find the quickest route to get to a job... and same thing when they get home when work ends... similarly they look for commercial zone to do shopping as well as entertainment the same way. Units of Water, Trash, sewage works the same way. I seriously haven't see how public transportation would work thou as the demo only shows people riding cars.
One weird thing I heard is that sims don't persist once they enter a building though. Not sure if that's going to be the final implementation or not, but at least from Kotak's preview they appear to only really exist as a person during travel.

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Re: Sim City

Postby Nylonathatep » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:One weird thing I heard is that sims don't persist once they enter a building though. Not sure if that's going to be the final implementation or not, but at least from Kotak's preview they appear to only really exist as a person during travel.


They've gone thru how they'll stimulate activity of the city's population in one of the Sim City 5 Video... Basically each individual house acts like a node, and each person living there is considered a packet they'll need to send out everyday to look for jobs. Whether they reached their destination and how long it takes for them to get there, in combination to their health (getting unpolluted water, getting garbage out of the house), and utilities provided(police coverage, electricity, other stuff after they city reached a certain population level), would determine if the node (house) would continue to be occupied. At the of the day when the job is done, the zone that offers the job (industrial or commerical) would also act as a node to send packets back to residential area.

As you can imagine... this lead into hilarious situation where a guy can wake up in a house... go to completely different job each day depending on traffic, and they end up sleeping in a different house with a different spouse and kids each night!

It's still a pretty good system thou, being an effiient and realistic stimulation of actual flow of the city at the macro level. A true simulation of an individual in each city would be very taxing to the hardware... especially when you get up to a city with say... 1,000,000 people.

They do show in the video that each individual have names, So I suspect you can name and track individuals in a city up to a certain number just like Sim City 4... (Sim City 4 let you track five individual in your city.)

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Re: Sim City

Postby Xeio » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:44 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:It's still a pretty good system thou, being an effiient and realistic stimulation of actual flow of the city at the macro level. A true simulation of an individual in each city would be very taxing to the hardware... especially when you get up to a city with say... 1,000,000 people.
Phhht, it's 2013! I have 18GB of RAM! I demand tracking of every Sim! :P

Plus, then I can go around tracking someone and demolishing their Work/Residence every time they find a new one...

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Re: Sim City

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:48 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I just hope they fix the pathing AI for the roads, so that people use the expensive subway and bus system I just built instead of clogging up the roads. Why you no take bus? WAI NOT?

Because they're Americans. My company recently moved to a new office where we have to walk past a greyhound station to get to the garage. From some of my coworkers reactions, I'm not sure if they understand the difference between people who take the bus and zombies.

Xeio wrote:Phhht, it's 2013! I have 18GB of RAM! I demand tracking of every Sim! :P

Plus, then I can go around tracking someone and demolishing their Work/Residence every time they find a new one...
They have that, it's called Dwarf Fortress.

Nylonathatep wrote:As you can imagine... this lead into hilarious situation where a guy can wake up in a house... go to completely different job each day depending on traffic, and they end up sleeping in a different house with a different spouse and kids each night!
That sounds like some kind of anarchist utopia.
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Re: Sim City

Postby ArgonV » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:I just hope they fix the pathing AI for the roads, so that people use the expensive subway and bus system I just built instead of clogging up the roads. Why you no take bus? WAI NOT?

Because they're Americans. My company recently moved to a new office where we have to walk past a greyhound station to get to the garage. From some of my coworkers reactions, I'm not sure if they understand the difference between people who take the bus and zombies.


Hell, I have a card that lets me use public transport for free, since I'm a student. There's bus stops at the university campus and the main bus terminal is in the city. Even when it's pouring down, I prefer to go by bike. But that might also be due to the shitty 'once every 20 minutes' schedule. Now, on the other hand, if we'd have a subway here, I'd use it every time.

Weird thing for me: Buying it on Origin: € 59,99. Buy this game in a webstore: € 47,74 (including shipping) for the same game. So I know what I'll be doing. Also, does anyone think the pre-order/collector's bonuses/buildings will actually be worth it?

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Re: Sim City

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:30 pm UTC

If its the same price for preorder, and you plan to buy simcity when it comes out, go for it. The preorder bonuses are really their way of being able to charge 1/2 off 6 months later without causing too many people to just adopt the policy of waiting 6 months to buy everything.

I doubt the preorders will give you more than a few landmarks, but a new power plant or different type of road could be well worth it. I didn't get rush hour for 4 so roads were a nightmare for dense cities (rush hour gave you 1way roads, allowing you to build double wide roads if you wanted).

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Re: Sim City

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

So most important thing is that someone create an XKCD region and we all join.

Any idea how many cities a region can hold?

My goal is to be an industrial city that sells power to other cities, as well as a the place where all your citizens work.

I hope the game has the capacity to try different governance styles. I am going low taxes and no regulations to create a pollution utopia where people come to work and fill my coffers!
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Sim City

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

eculc wrote:Now, if the Dev's AMA says differently then I can only assume that that's correct, but I was going off of the information I had before that.

In all honesty, I don't really see why everyone is complaining about always-online requirement. I mean, it might be a bit of an annoyance (to some, I don't see it being a problem for me), but so is the fact that you can't use a mouse+keyboard when playing Console games (again, to some), and I don't see any level of complaint about that...maybe just because it's starting to happen more often now, when it didn't before?


Some places don't have broadband access, or have fairly low caps on how much data you can send/receive in a month before you start getting gouged with extra fees. Other places will throttle your internet connection for online gaming because it sometimes looks suspiciously like P2P.

rmsgrey
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Re: Sim City

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:41 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
eculc wrote:Now, if the Dev's AMA says differently then I can only assume that that's correct, but I was going off of the information I had before that.

In all honesty, I don't really see why everyone is complaining about always-online requirement. I mean, it might be a bit of an annoyance (to some, I don't see it being a problem for me), but so is the fact that you can't use a mouse+keyboard when playing Console games (again, to some), and I don't see any level of complaint about that...maybe just because it's starting to happen more often now, when it didn't before?


Some places don't have broadband access, or have fairly low caps on how much data you can send/receive in a month before you start getting gouged with extra fees. Other places will throttle your internet connection for online gaming because it sometimes looks suspiciously like P2P.


Some online games use peer-to-peer networks simply to reduce the load on the central servers - peer-to-peer architecture generally scales better too - so the trick is not one of detecting P2P activity, but distinguishing between types of P2P activity - not a trivial matter.

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Koa
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Re: Sim City

Postby Koa » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:35 pm UTC

Considering the lack of offline play, I can't imagine that they'll ever introduce mod support. It's basically the same principle. Without mods, DLC will always be significantly more valuable. They know how large Sim City 4's modding scene was and how important it was to its life span. The always-online component also complements the pushing and purchasing of DLC. I would guess that EA is going to milk this title for years with overpriced $10 building packs and such. I hope I'm wrong but I'm definitely reserved about this one.

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Xeio
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Re: Sim City

Postby Xeio » Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:04 am UTC

Beta beta beta.

I'm not in the beta. :(

There's some videos of the tutorial floating around, though EA is taking them down as they show up since I guess everything is still under NDA.
Last edited by Xeio on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:33 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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