Super Smash Bros.

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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GhostWolfe
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:40 am UTC

More power to my wii if it would like to come out of the closet, surely it knows I would support its decision??

/angell
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:41 am UTC

@alia:

Compare the following up smashes:
Wario
Lucas

My point is, that attack doesn't do much. It barely launches even heavily damaged enemies, it can't even kill alloys. That's not a solid attack. Certainly, it can accomplish a great deal, but it isn't what I would call a solid attack since it won't kill anyone. That he has a few attacks like this (down in the air, for example) leads me to the conclusion he has a shortage of solid (again, my definition of solid being a considerably launching attack, for example, Ganondorf uses solid attacks almost exclusively. An easy way to tell if it's a solid attack is seeing if an alloy is guaranteed to die when hit by it.) attacks, though is by no means a weak character for it.

That aside, I think Wario's air-game is better than Marth's. Marth falls too quickly, and his attacks are very specific in targetting. Lots of calculation. Wario you can just flail wildly and you'll do a lot of damage. Calculate to the level a Marth player would and you'll do much better than him. . . I think he's technically better than Meta Knight in some regards, his attacks hit harder, though Meta Knight does have that cheap floating technique.

@Wraith: Ganondorf is finally out from under the shadow of Captain Falcon in this game. He's an excellent character, and considerably more awesome this time.

@GhostWolfe: Isn't Pink Falcon known as Blood Hawk? Or is that a different one?
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:09 am UTC

I wouldn't say Ganondorf is a really good character, I'd say he is better than Cpt. Falcon maybe (just because Cpt. Falcon isn't anywhere near as good as he was in Melee). It seems most characters are a counterpick to ganondorf (infact according to theory he has the most disadvantages against everyone).


And he doesn't rank well in tournies (not ranked at all). - http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Of course it could be that Ganondorf has 0 plays at tournaments altogether (doubtful).

I just like Ganondorf because he owns HRC like he did in Melee xD. I think that Nintendo did a kinda poor job of balancing characters, but it is hard when you have so many from so many dif worlds with trade-mark abilities.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:52 am UTC

You know what I think? I think someone just hates Ganondorf.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:57 am UTC

Insignificant Deification wrote:You know what I think? I think someone just hates Ganondorf.


Who?

I think most people don't play some of the lower ranking characters as much, or at least the good players don't play him much. Which kinda sucks.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:21 am UTC

Person that made the chart, obviously.

And, I think so. Some characters it's hard to see the potential of. Others you just hate.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Durinthal » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:32 am UTC

I still love Ganondorf, but he's fallen by the wayside for me with all of the new characters. I've basically replaced him with Ike, now that I think about it. Similar power, but I feel that Ike has a bit more maneuverability.

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Maseiken » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:42 am UTC

I'm always standing by Ganondorf.
He's tricky, but certainly not an active disadvantage.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:09 am UTC

Insignificant Deification wrote:Person that made the chart, obviously.


Well, I'm pretty sure it was a collab of crazy people who are so obsessed with fighters that they do frame analysis on people's moves and who perfect stuff like ISHR that sorta analysed the movesets and tricks of each character and figured out who has advantages over who. Of course, it's probably not 100% accurate, since things always change and new tricks are found, but at the present point in time that appears to be how the disadvantages fly.

I don't think it has anything to do with hating that character, I'm sure people who helped with the chart main ganondorf, it's just they see that he is kinda the underdog (theoretically). You can still like the underdog right?

Edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979 There is the thread if anyone is curious, I think I posted it earlier in here as well.


Edit: Haha Funny quote on the smashboards:

In a thread asking for a character that is quick on racking up damage and decent at KOing
Here's your answer.

You'll find characters are either:
A) Good at racking up damage quickly and bad at KOing
B) Good at KOing but bad at racking up damage quickly.
C) Snake



Edit: Of course I'm not saying those characters are shit, any character played well owns. It's just that Bowser and Ganondorf have a harder time against other characters than say.. Snake does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shfk871riNM - Ganondorf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn16NNxiJF8 - Bowser

Seems like Gimpy is real good at the heavies.

Crazy ass snake - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAVixs4r3I
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"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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"Is it all pointless?"
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby ParanoidDrone » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:10 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:
Here's your answer.

You'll find characters are either:
A) Good at racking up damage quickly and bad at KOing
B) Good at KOing but bad at racking up damage quickly.
C) Snake/Meta Knight

Gelsamel wrote:Crazy ass-snake - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAVixs4r3I

Fixed those for ya. <_<
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby alia » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:18 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:
alia wrote:and there are a few Wario players placing pretty high in tournaments.


That doesn't say that much though, people can get REALLY good at this game. Hell I've seen a RIDICULOUSLY good Bowser who only JUST lost and came 2nd in a tourny. Nothing against Bowser, but he has a theoretical disadvantage against just about EVERY single character (ie, every character is a Bowser counterpick).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:13 pm UTC

ParanoidDrone wrote:
Gelsamel wrote:
Here's your answer.

You'll find characters are either:
A) Good at racking up damage quickly and bad at KOing
B) Good at KOing but bad at racking up damage quickly.
C) Snake/Meta Knight

Gelsamel wrote:Crazy ass-snake - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlAVixs4r3I

Fixed those for ya. <_<



Yeah Metaknight is great, but I'd say Snake's moves a better at KOing while MK is better at racking damage. Snake's Mind Game (control of the field, in his case) >>> MK's though.

This thread on Snake is cool:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162635

The pictures of the hitboxes are nice xD

"I would also like to add that the hitbox on snake's up tilt is quite possibly the most broken, unfair, unrealistic thing I've ever witnessed in a video game in my life, where his foot hardly goes anywhere but the hitbox might as well be Marth or Ike's sword held out really far in front of them going upwards with massive force and priority." ~ M2K
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:14 pm UTC

Snake should give some of his priority to Captain Falcon.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby WraithXt1 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:24 pm UTC

Anyone want to get an XKCD game night going for some Wii online play?

If so I'll set one up for everyone!

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby AKAnotu » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:39 pm UTC

I'll play. Fc=5241-1586-0847

I normally play as samus but since I'm assuming we're doing a 4-man I'll probably go ROB
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:56 pm UTC

WraithXt1 wrote:Anyone want to get an XKCD game night going for some Wii online play?
I'd play, but I'd be online at all the wrong hours.

/angell
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby WraithXt1 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:18 am UTC

Well considering I'm in Hawaii, I'd be setting up matches in the evening HST, so you Australians would be able to get in on the action.

What would be the best method for the gaggle of us communicating? ventrillo? IRC? an AIM chat room?

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby AKAnotu » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:33 am UTC

It's getting kind of late here and I'm going to go watch a movie, so sorry, count me out.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby GhostWolfe » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:11 am UTC

Voice chat means no one has to put their controllers down to type. Sjype* is a pretty good, and has a chat feature for the people who don't have microphones.

/angell

*long story
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby WraithXt1 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:26 am UTC

AKAnotu wrote:It's getting kind of late here and I'm going to go watch a movie, so sorry, count me out.


I was talking more of a Friday/Sat night deal, I just want to get a feel for if people are interested right now. I could set up a small tourny bracket for fun as well.

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby GhostWolfe » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:38 am UTC

Yeah, I'm at work at the moment, I think they'd get offended if I ducked home to play some Brawl :twisted:

/angell
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby WraithXt1 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:46 am UTC

Hah! Same here, I think the Air Force would frown upon me ignoring the rest of my duties to play Smash =P

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby ParanoidDrone » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:51 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Yeah Metaknight is great, but I'd say Snake's moves a better at KOing while MK is better at racking damage. Snake's Mind Game (control of the field, in his case) >>> MK's though.

Snake does have more raw KO power than Meta Knight does, but Meta Knight has such obscene edgeguarding potential that his KO moves may as well work at 40-something* percent.

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Cheese » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:28 am UTC

AKAnotu wrote:I normally play as samus but since I'm assuming we're doing a 4-man I'll probably go ROB
Brawl killed Samus for me...

She's still a perfectly good character, but with the power suit she's slower and clumsier than I got used to in Melee, and without it she's a completely different character. I may start using her again at some point, but I'll stick to Kirby and Ike for the moment, kthx.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Maseiken » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:45 am UTC

Zamus is quite a good Character, barring the lack of FS...
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby AKAnotu » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:17 pm UTC

WraithXt1 wrote:
AKAnotu wrote:It's getting kind of late here and I'm going to go watch a movie, so sorry, count me out.


I was talking more of a Friday/Sat night deal, I just want to get a feel for if people are interested right now. I could set up a small tourny bracket for fun as well.

Oh, ok. You didn't state a time/day so I just assumed that it was last night, that's all.

Also, I agree with cheese stating that Samus and brawl are not good friends. I just play her to spite nintendo/stubbornness. The main thing to do is never let an opponent get under you, and to spam her z air whenever possible.

Also, my computer and my TV are on two separate floors. voice chat wouldn't be too great for me.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:23 pm UTC

Oooh, I'd like to play brawl against someone, if they want.
If there is any matches coming up (my codes are in the stickied code thread.)
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby ParanoidAndroid » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:47 am UTC

I mainly play as Zelda, but I like Pit quite a bit as well. I used Samus and Sheik the most in Melee.

I wish I owned a Wii. :(

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Nonmus » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:38 pm UTC

I've recently gotten into Ganon and Olimar. Ganon is wonderful, what with his ability to hit somebody three times and kill. I have a friend who mains him and it got me to try him out. I'm just stuck trying to do the 100-man brawl with him. By the time I get down to 25-ish, I'm usually at 200% damage already. Closest I've come is 2 opponents left.

I also managed to lose a match because I accidentally suicided two of my three lives with him the other night. Whoops.

Pink Captain Faclon is the only way to go. Same goes for Luigi, Dedede, and toon Link. And if you don't use his down taunt at least five times every match, you're using him wrong.

Depending on what time the xkcd game night takes place, I might be willing to join in. Unfortunately, my Wii is in a seperate room from my computer as well, so I'd have to miss out on any voice-chatting fun.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:56 pm UTC

Nonbaka wrote:Ganon is wonderful, what with his ability to hit somebody three times and kill.


If you like that I recommend Ike too, except replace "three times" with "one time".
"Give up here?"
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"Do you accept defeat?"
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"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Nonmus » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:24 pm UTC

Oh don't get me started on Ike. I hate that bastard sooooo much.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Ian Ex Machina » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:18 pm UTC

Nonbaka wrote:Pink Captain Faclon is the only way to go. Same goes for Luigi, Dedede, and toon Link.

Yes.

On the topic of Xkcd game night talky voice stuff, any program used specifically, and also it will be casual with some items?

According to the Brawl data I main Lucario, and he is awesome but I kinda got a liking For Rob last night.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:59 am UTC

Insignificant Deification wrote:@GhostWolfe: Isn't Pink Falcon known as Blood Hawk? Or is that a different one?

Blood Hawk is red and purple (and has his own trophy), this guy is just pink >.<

----


I'm having trouble enduring the 15-minute Brawl. Who's beaten it and how did you do it??

On my most successful attempt so far:

Character: Kirby
Time Remaining: 3:20
Enemies Defeated: 300
Strategy: Sit on the bottom part of the stage and spam up+A to send anyone that comes in reach flying. Grab as many assists and pokéballs as possible.

/angell
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby WraithXt1 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:03 am UTC

I've been down to the last 15 every time I do it, but I just c ant seem to win! I've tried with Pikachu, Ganondorf, and many time with Captain Falcon.

I think you just need to get lucky!

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:10 am UTC

The most successful multi-man melee character I've had outside of Cruel Melee (King Dedede for the win!) is Sonic. I achieved all the 100 man brawl challenges with him (aside from the ones that literally require other characters) without taking more than 30% damage. And I suck with Sonic.

Basically you nail the opponent before they can make life harder for you using the specials and aerials. You only run to get there as they're just coming off their platform. And, there's always the escape button (up B).

It's not a surefire strategy, and requires twitch reflexes, but I did fairly well.
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:17 am UTC

I've gotten the 100-man Brawl with Kirby, but not the 15-minute.

I've also tried Zamus, but enemies get behind me too well when I play her. I've tried Ike, who has great knockback, but has to move to do so, unlike my Kirby strat where I hold "up" and just spam A, only moving to grab items. I tried Samus, but I'm no good with her.

/angell
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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:37 am UTC

Try edgehogging with aether when using Ike in any of the Multi-mans.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby WraithXt1 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:23 am UTC

I usually do VERY well with Link, and his up A attack. It hits multiple targets in a large are around him and launches them. Give him a shot!

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Durinthal » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:48 am UTC

I beat the 15-minute by basically spamming up-B with Kirby from one end of the stage. It has good horizontal cover and the vertical aspect generally keeps them from hitting from above. I got to less than 20 seconds and died twice before I finally beat it. Of course, getting lucky with items (bumpers in particular) never hurts.

Anyone have tips for beating Boss Battles on Intense? I'm decent with Fox (reflector + aerial forward-A = a quick death for most bosses) but haven't yet beaten Taboo like that.

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Re: Super Smash Bros.

Postby Nonmus » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:31 am UTC

I beat the 15-minute the cheap way by repeatedly flying under the stage with Pit. I've had the easiest time in 100-man with Meta Knight and Donkey Kong. Meta Knight by simply jumping around and slashing at things and DK with his down+B.

I still have trouble doing Boss Battles on Very Hard, but I get the best results with Marth. Those few times that I actually get up to Tabuu, he usually just gives me a quick "fuck off" and catches me off guard with his first or second attack. It's a real morale killer. Tabuu just takes a lot of patience. Go in for a quick hit, then get ready to avoid whatever he's going to throw at you and don't slip up.
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