Legend of Grimrock - new old-school dungeon crawl

[Soralin]

Giving this game some attention because it looks interesting, if you've played earlier games of the sort. It's an RPG dungeon crawl along the lines of Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, etc. getting released on April 11.

There's a site up at http://www.grimrock.net/

Check out the recent trailer here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmSJ1iFx5zA

And an earlier beta trailer showing some more features:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep97ba_uWXM

[SecondTalon]

I'll be buying this. Not just because I'm a fan of the genre, but this as well.

[philsov]

Four person party and 3 classes?

Not quite Wizardry but I'll probably partake.

[Ghostbear]

I've only heard a little bit about this before, but I'm really curious to see how it turns out. The lack of "old-school" RPGs is something I always wish would be addressed. I just hope it's my cup of old-school tea.

Also...

I'll be buying this. Not just because I'm a fan of the genre, but this as well.

That's a really great story. They pass the "be a fucking human" test.

[Enokh]

I'll be buying this. Not just because I'm a fan of the genre, but this as well.

And now they've got my money.

[CorruptUser]

It's an RPG dungeon crawl along the lines of Dungeon Master, Eye of the Beholder, etc.

Dungeon Hack. Random dungeon generator, with the ability to set all sorts of parameters. The game practically lampshades the plot; "hey go fetch my mcguffin!"

[bling]

its looks great!

[VectorZero]

I'll be buying this. Not just because I'm a fan of the genre, but this as well.

And now they've got my money.

+1 here.

[Jesse]

Tempted, but Steam lists no price or ability to pre-order, so I've no idea how much money they want from me.

[pseudoidiot]

According to their site if you buy it directly from them you get the standalone installer as well as a Steam key.

[Ghostbear]

Tempted, but Steam lists no price or ability to pre-order, so I've no idea how much money they want from me.

I just checked, and it's $13.50 on Steam right now.

[Jesse]

Yeah, once it went live it got a pricetag, will likely buy it before it goes full price on the 18th.

[VectorZero]

You can still buy it on their website (via Humble Store, the guys who do Humble Bundle) and get the downloader and a steam code, or via gog, for the same price as through steam.

[novax6]

This game fucking owns. Wish I could play it more right now, but sadly won't have much time until the weekend.

[philsov]

Picked it up this afternoon, been toying with it a bit.

First off, combat is dynamic and loosely turn-based. I suppose timed would be the appropriate term; there is a delay from when you swing the sword that you simply can't click-swing again. This is determined in part by both your weapon and proficiencies/passives. You are however free to always sidestep and move/swing around the enemy. In fact I'm pretty sure there's a bonus to hit/damage (not just rogue backstab) in doing so. So combat at this point is pretty much "unload your arsenal, take some steps back while they recharge, repeat and take minimal damage." So it helps to be able to remember your path and not travel backwards into a pit or a corner or something. Mages are deadly at this with spells' being longer-ranged than your basic melee, but they get energy-capped quickly so spells are certainly not spammable on CD like weapons are. Also spell casting involves clicking runes to select certain spells, so while you can pre-load one spell prior to combat recasting it will take a few clicks.

I went with a basic party... 2 fighters + rogue + mage, with each of the races represented. As seen in the screenshot above, each class has 6 or so specialties they can invest initial and level up points into; in the general scheme of 3 weapon proficiencies (4 schools of magic for the mage), a utility/passive, and a defensive.

Puzzles have been basic level thus far (I'm on level 2, woo) but I need to keep my eyes peeled for secret wall switches and loot tucked in the corner. There is no vendor or home base so if you know you're never going to use a piece of equipment, just let it rot.

Highly recommended if you're the slightest fan of the genre.

[novax6]

You are however free to always sidestep and move/swing around the enemy. In fact I'm pretty sure there's a bonus to hit/damage (not just rogue backstab) in doing so.

Super minor correction, if you train a rogue in the Assassination skill, you do get a backstab bonus for hitting from behind, I think it's double damage at first and then at later levels triple. Very useful against slow moving enemies like the Legionaries and Giants.

Puzzles have been basic level thus far (I'm on level 2, woo) but I need to keep my eyes peeled for secret wall switches and loot tucked in the corner

Also, slight warning, some of the puzzles later in the game (i'm on level 7 now) get FUCKING hard. Some of those are secret or optional ones, but there are some damn tough required puzzles too. It's eventually solvable though, there's only been one so far I had to ask a friend wtf I was missing, and it was just a case of me missing an obvious clue.

Great game though, very appropriately challenging so far on normal.

[Menacing Spike]

Wow, this game is very very similar to Dungeon Master 2.

Super minor correction, if you train a rogue in the Assassination skill, you do get a backstab bonus for hitting from behind, I think it's double damage at first and then at later levels triple. Very useful against slow moving enemies like the Legionaries and Giants.

Backstab is just not worth it until lvl 50. Until I hit that level I would much rather have had a mage . Maybe it's good with an air mage but mine is ice. If invis works like I think it works, this could be game-breaking.

Great game though, very appropriately challenging so far on normal.

Found challenging on hard, this is nice. Some areas were actually difficult (eeergh that slime dungeon, had to cheese the door to kill them). For hard I suggest a mace minotaur: maces are hard to find but you can find the Ogre Mace (really powerful) relatively early.

[Yubtzock]

I never played Dungeon Master or anything exactly like that so Grimrock is my first "square by square" first person rpg dungeon crawler thingie. Whoa... this game truly owns.
Puzzles like in adventure games? Check. Tactical and semi-rpg things? Check. Mainly gameplay-oriented? Check.
About the last point: the story is present, but it's never in-your-face or so important that you can't skip it, but it's still there if you care to look for it.

huge badass story spoiler

Spoiler:

So the cubes build the dungeon but the Designers changed it into a prison?

I kinda expected something turning on me, but would have never thought of that at first. Also: did the Designers build the cubes but fret at their creation?

Toorum's fate was unfortunate and disappointing. I hoped to meet the guy. On the other hand - it would require a dialogue and that would probably break the old-school feel of the game.

Wow, this game is very very similar to Dungeon Master 2.

Super minor correction, if you train a rogue in the Assassination skill, you do get a backstab bonus for hitting from behind, I think it's double damage at first and then at later levels triple. Very useful against slow moving enemies like the Legionaries and Giants.

Backstab is just not worth it until lvl 50. Until I hit that level I would much rather have had a mage . Maybe it's good with an air mage but mine is ice. If invis works like I think it works, this could be game-breaking.

Invisibility turns off when you approach an enemy or attack and recasting invisibility all the time is cumbersome and eats up energy fast. Like you said getting to 50 assasination means no skillpoints in anything else, so it's a bit problematic, but once achieved some of the big enemies might become easy (ogres). Game still isn't broken because some enemies are too fast for backstabs even with invisibility and others can see you even if you are under the effect of invisibility.

And 12 points into assassination give you "attack with melee from back row" which allows you to make a melee&throwing rogue in a team with 2 fighters and completely ignore dodge skill for the sake of daggers/throwing weapons/more assassination. (Which is crazy since evasion is just sooo good)

Great game though, very appropriately challenging so far on normal.

Found challenging on hard, this is nice. Some areas were actually difficult (eeergh that slime dungeon, had to cheese the door to kill them). For hard I suggest a mace minotaur: maces are hard to find but you can find the Ogre Mace (really powerful) relatively early.

maces are powerful and omit armor but there aren't many armored enemies and maces get negative hit bonus. Given the high evasion influence and mino's low hit rate you'd be lucky to land one strike on a mob that's not an ogre or slime. I used axes and it was hard to hit anything. If you want a challenge though it's the right choice I guess.

The only complaints I have about the game are the ones I see everyone else making: some problems with the input; timed puzzles requiring faster machine/lowering graphic options; not enough content.
I mean - the game isn't short and it's definitely as long and entertaining (maybe even more so) as you'd expect it to be for it's price, but the max level and skills you could get suggest the game should have been at least twice as long with many, much more exp-rewarding enemies than it currently is.
Or the game is just so good you simply want more.

[Menacing Spike]

Like you said getting to 50 assasination means no skillpoints in anything else

Well technically you could use the skill points trait and some books :p.

[philsov]

some of the puzzles later in the game (i'm on level 7 now) get FUCKING hard.

Heh, yeah. I'm on level 8 atm -- I had to cheat to figure out how to GET there in the first place despite me finding the tile earlier and having no clue what to do from there. I also looked up how to get into the Fighter's Challenge (promptly died, btw) and how to do the Mages Trial where:

Spoiler:

I had to use the fire sword to cast a fireball on that firebally gargoyle head to close the pit.

Most difficult for me so far have been the timing/input ones like the 4-pillar mage's puzzle with timed switches and pits to get the awesome sword on level 6, and the Iron Gate on level 7 where I had to play catcher for all the light balls (this took me at least 25 attempts). Precision is key, since moves get input midstep on the last one, so I needed to, for example, press left twice instead of holding down left until I was on the spot because I'd overstep or something.

Also storyline spoilers:

Spoiler:

Old One (Cthulu-like) priests? Really? I would've preferred horned demons given the choice... they're the better kind of cliché. But maybe I'm thinking too far ahead.

[Yubtzock]

Like you said getting to 50 assasination means no skillpoints in anything else

Well technically you could use the skill points trait and some books :p.

yeah, except rogue with 50 assassintion is perfect back row character and putting those extra 15 points from books + 3 from trait might make him survive in the front row for some time (just checked - light armor is available from 17dodge), but you can always find a better place to put those precious book points into. Like a mage's spellcraft or something.

Most difficult for me so far have been the timing/input ones like the 4-pillar mage's puzzle with timed switches and pits to get the awesome sword on level 6, and the Iron Gate on level 7 where I had to play catcher for all the light balls (this took me at least 25 attempts). Precision is key, since moves get input midstep on the last one, so I needed to, for example, press left twice instead of holding down left until I was on the spot because I'd overstep or something.

The lightbolt catching... That's the one I had to lower graphics to get it done right. And the clicking instead of holding a button made it all feel like a rhythm game. I really don't like those. Luckily there were only like 3 timed puzzles that I can think of and only 2 of them really essential.

Also: for people who think they passed the game and think this is over (as I have just find out from somewhere):

Spoiler:

Toorum mode... seriously...

[Vaniver]

That's a really great story. They pass the "be a fucking human" test.

Almost.

[SecondTalon]

That's a really great story. They pass the "be a fucking human" test.

Almost.

Elaborate?

[Ghostbear]

That's a really great story. They pass the "be a fucking human" test.

Almost.

Elaborate?

Vaniver was doing a (rather nice, if I may say so) pun; the developer's name is "Almost Human".

[SecondTalon]

....oh. OH! Now I get it!


....



Nothing to see here.

[VectorZero]

Jokes! Heh heh, I get jokes.

[CorruptUser]

So it was released last week. Anyone here played it yet, and are willing to tell us how it is?

[pseudoidiot]

So it was released last week. Anyone here played it yet, and are willing to tell us how it is?

You could try reading the thread?

[CorruptUser]

So it was released last week. Anyone here played it yet, and are willing to tell us how it is?

You could try reading the thread?

Facepalm.

I can't beliece I missed like 7 posts on this thread. Need to get my eyes checked.

[Nylonathatep]

In Before the "4 White Mages? that'll never work!"

[New User]

4 White Mages? that'll never work!

[philsov]

In Before the "4 White Mages? that'll never work!"

I think playthroughs of 4x of each class have already been completed, for what it's worth.

I do not envy all the clicking necessary for 4x mage...

[CorruptUser]

Mages are different for video games and PnP. PnP, "my fighter attacks the orc" and "my sorcerer casts fireball" are almost the same thing time-wise, but in video games it's -select spell, aim spell, fire spell, select different spell, fire spell- versus -stab orc, stab orc again-.

[Nylonathatep]

In Before the "4 White Mages? that'll never work!"

I think playthroughs of 4x of each class have already been completed, for what it's worth.

I do not envy all the clicking necessary for 4x mage...

Everyone Missed the Joke:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/03/20/ ... something/

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2010/02/20/ ... c-history/

[VectorZero]

I got it...

Also, I spent waaaaaay too long watching those dogs run...

[Magnanimous]

THIS GAME IS SO COOL.

So far. I'm only five levels down, but I'm very impressed with what I've seen. It's less repetitive than I expected, the puzzles are pretty clever, and it's fairly difficult even on Medium.

A++, would continue playing.

[emceng]

This is kind of a book mark/reminder to check out this game. Though no idea when i'll have time. Just bought 4 new games today, plus have 2 unopened from Christmas.

[pseudoidiot]

On level 6

Spoiler:

Anyone else found the stairs that take you down to a short hallway that teleports into a room with a bunch of those green insect things? This fight is hard! I've tried a few times and not making a lot of headway, although the last time I got down to only 5 or 6 more of the things with my primary tank/fighter still alive, but he couldn't survive the onslaught.

[Magnanimous]

I finally beat this, and it is awesome! The ending took forever, since

Spoiler:

I didn't realize you could kill the cthulhu-robe wizard things... I just assumed they were protecting their dungeon and were invincible. Which led to a lot of sneaking around and kiting, but I got through them okay.

My only real complaint is that combat felt a little artificial because of the grid system. If you had one enemy and plenty of room, you can maneuver around faster than they can turn to hit you so there's no real threat. The dungeons were also pretty repetitive... There's only a few textures for walls, and the hidden buttons are always in the same spot. It's understandable since Almost Human had a pretty small team to work on this, but still.

The plot seems Portal-esque to me, which certainly isn't a bad thing. Big spoilers:

Spoiler:

The Undying One betraying you when you repair it wasn't a huge plot twist... but fighting the giant cube-thing was awesome. My only complaint is that the ending felt a little flat; we don't really find out anything about the Undying One or why there's a prison for it. Maybe in the sequel?