xkcd

by **Krealr** » Thu May 03, 2012 5:13 pm UTC

Lots of little announcements popping up. Scheduled for June 2013.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/05/03/the-elder-scrolls-online-is-a-real-mmo-being-developed-by-zenima/

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

Set 1000 years before skyrim. I'll have to look it up later how does that fall in the timeline of the other games?

by **An Enraged Platypus** » Thu May 03, 2012 5:18 pm UTC

I'm really, really suspicious at this point. I pray that they know what they are doing, this could go so wrong in so many ways.

by **SirBryghtside** » Thu May 03, 2012 5:49 pm UTC

...fuck.

by **Vaniver** » Thu May 03, 2012 9:49 pm UTC

1000 years before would be ~2E 533. The Second Empire- ruled by the Akaviri Potentate- collapses about a hundred years beforehand, and Tiber Septim doesn't unite the provinces until 2E 897, ending the Second Era. It's not quite clear who the realms will be, since that part of history is somewhat vacant in the current lore. It looks like their modified Ouroboros has a dragon, lion, and hawk, which might correspond to Nords, Khajiit (Imperials?), and Aldmer, who could be the dominant races of the various factions.

It'll be interesting to see if they take a more Daggerfall approach- there are lots fo cities that are dots on the map, and then there's lots and lots of procedurally generated content when you want it- or a more Morrowind approach- we've detailed every inch of the world, and left lots of goodies to find. The first seems way more appropriate to an MMO.

unique new take on player-vs-player, in which the three factions battle over sections of land or a desired position of power.

So, like... Dark Age of Camelot? A game that came out over a decade ago?

by **Ghostbear** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:09 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:So, like... Dark Age of Camelot? A game that came out over a decade ago?

Well, the lead developer for it is from Dark Age of Camelot, so not exactly unexpected.

Relevant quote from link:

The key dev quoted by the article – and the lead in the project – is former Dark Age Of Camelot man Matt Firor, [...]

by **Jebobek** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:24 am UTC

I guess it won't be Skyrim: multiplayer mode. Drop into the world, do some quests with a few other people you know. Of course, you'd have to double the width of most hallways, unless you're into starting at the backs of your tanky friend.

by **CorruptUser** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:09 am UTC

All the cheese tactics would have to be removed. Like crafting your own spells or items. Also, level up skills by using them, in a MMO setting, instead of single player, may have some issues. 2 friends would just AFK cast "absorb magicka" on each other for 20 hours to get huge amounts of restoration, or just damage a rat's fatigue for a few hours for better destruction, mass unlock doors for high alteration, etc. I mean it's nice that you don't have to kill monsters for xp, but it doesn't quite work in an MMO setting.

by **mosc** » Fri May 04, 2012 5:52 pm UTC

I can't imagine this being any good. Seems like a cash-in at best. Bethesda also went out of it's way to say "NOT MADE BY US! IT'S THIS OTHER STUDIO!"

by **SirBryghtside** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:06 pm UTC

mosc wrote:I can't imagine this being any good. Seems like a cash-in at best. Bethesda also went out of it's way to say "NOT MADE BY US! IT'S THIS OTHER STUDIO!"

A cash-in that reportedly took five years to develop?

I honestly have no idea what to think of the MMO. I am completely lost. There is no part of this that I can process in any meaningful way.

by **Lostdreams** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:17 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:All the cheese tactics would have to be removed. Like crafting your own spells or items. Also, level up skills by using them, in a MMO setting, instead of single player, may have some issues. 2 friends would just AFK cast "absorb magicka" on each other for 20 hours to get huge amounts of restoration, or just damage a rat's fatigue for a few hours for better destruction, mass unlock doors for high alteration, etc. I mean it's nice that you don't have to kill monsters for xp, but it doesn't quite work in an MMO setting.

No gamebreaking loopholes in a Bethesda game? Lies. Lies and deceit.

by **Koa** » Sat May 05, 2012 4:43 am UTC

Yeah....

I'd have to agree it's a cash-in, and I can't really blame them in that regard. People have been clamouring for it for some ungodly reason for a while, but I'm pretty sure they haven't thought about it too deeply.

by **Koa** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:03 pm UTC

The new E3 content for this is actually pretty funny.
RPS interview
GT interview

RPS: Are you worried at all by the current state of the MMO market? I mean, EA recently launched SWTOR – which, like you, had strong story content and a beloved license behind it – but it’s already deflating due to a general feeling of “been there, done that” from players – especially in regard to endgame. How will Elder Scrolls avoid a repeat performance?

Paul Sage: It’s interesting because, when we say MMO, we just say the word as if it means something. And I know what you mean, but for us, the first thing is that it has to be a compelling game – a compelling RPG. So first, we plan out a number of hours. So when we’re planning internally, we’ll say, “OK, here’s the number of hours where we really have enough content.” Then what we look at is what’s repeatably fun and what actually works to be repeatable. And you heard me mention our dungeons at level 50, for instance, you can go in and replay, but it’s new content. It’s not the content you’ve seen before.

by **Vaniver** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:37 pm UTC

Yeah, I am not impressed by this interview.

RPS: But, generally speaking, MMOs do kind of a terrible job of making us feel like heroes. Other people run and leap and spam general chat all around, and they’re doing the exact same things as you. Why not instead focus on constructing a world that doesn’t try to ignore that?

Paul Sage: It’s a matter of perspective. If you feel like NPCs respect your accomplishments, there’s nothing that says other people being around takes away from that. In fact, it enhances that.

Emphasis mine. Is Paul Sage saying that other people running and leaping and spamming general enhances the feeling that you're a hero? That's how the grammar and logic looks like it should go, but I find it hard to believe that's his actual belief.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:14 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:I guess it won't be Skyrim: multiplayer mode. Drop into the world, do some quests with a few other people you know. Of course, you'd have to double the width of most hallways, unless you're into starting at the backs of your tanky friend.

Most MMOs let you walk through other players.

Well, I know I'm definitely going to check this out when it's available, but it sounds like we have no idea what to expect.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:00 am UTC

Eight months later, thread on page 3...I think you'll excuse the double post.
Closed beta signups are here. Announcements for beta events begin late March.

I kind of forgot about this game until a couple days ago, and I've started looking into it. I've only listened to two people's opinions, but what really sticks in my mind is that the combat is supposed to be very similar to Skyrim's. A left hand and right hand button (or an attack and block button), plus six quickslots for spells.

There's other good information in there, some of it for sure sounds awesome, some sounds dubious and like it's being described with overly-flowery language, but I think there's a good chance TESO might just rise above the standard WoW clone.

by **mosc** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:48 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:There's other good information in there, some of it for sure sounds awesome, some sounds dubious and like it's being described with overly-flowery language, but I think there's a good chance TESO might just rise above the standard WoW clone.

I thought SW:TOR was more than a wow clone but it still didn't survive. Guild wars 2 was certainly more wow-like than the original but also still fairly different and is also utter crap now. I don't even know if it's possible to make an MMO work anymore without directly cannibalizing wow's customer base. WoW itself is one of the few vestiges of PC gaming still thriving (to be fair, skyrim is too) in a medium that seems to be on it's way out of fashion. I have very very low expectations for this game. It could be the best MMO ever made and still be a complete flop the way the market is. And without a strong user base, no MMO will survive for very long.

by **Koa** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:21 pm UTC

mosc wrote:WoW itself is one of the few vestiges of PC gaming still thriving (to be fair, skyrim is too) in a medium that seems to be on it's way out of fashion.

What in the fuck...?

by **The Scyphozoa** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

Well, uh, it hasn't gone full free2play like so many other MMOs have.

Anyway, I think one of TESO's lead developers is from the Dark Age of Camelot devs, so that's pretty cool.

by **mosc** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

Koa wrote:
mosc wrote:WoW itself is one of the few vestiges of PC gaming still thriving (to be fair, skyrim is too) in a medium that seems to be on it's way out of fashion.

What in the fuck...?

What part of that is unclear? The number of hours people spend outside of work on windows/MAC PC's has been dropping steadily. We use our phones, tablets, watch netflix on our TV's, and use our gaming consoles. PC gaming is well into it'd declining phase. Has been for years.

by **SecondTalon** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:02 pm UTC

Does that mean I'll stop seeing ported console shit and a greater focus on stuff that can only be done on a PC, like it was in the heady days of the early to mid 90s? Or even the mid to late 80s?

Because I'm down for that. I'll take 100 Kerbal Space Programs or Dwarf Fortresses for every Batman or Darksiders or Dead Space.

by **JudeMorrigan** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:36 pm UTC

mosc wrote:
Koa wrote:
mosc wrote:WoW itself is one of the few vestiges of PC gaming still thriving (to be fair, skyrim is too) in a medium that seems to be on it's way out of fashion.

What in the fuck...?

What part of that is unclear? The number of hours people spend outside of work on windows/MAC PC's has been dropping steadily. We use our phones, tablets, watch netflix on our TV's, and use our gaming consoles. PC gaming is well into it'd declining phase. Has been for years.

Yes, PC gaming has been dying for years and years. I fully expect to see people continue to talk about how its dying for years and years to come. Seriously though, my general impression is that Steam and other online realtors had gone a long way towards replacing the admittedly largely defunct brick and mortar sales of yesteryear. Certainly the sales aren't what you see on the consoles, but I'm curious if you have actual statistics to back up your statements, or if you're relying on general impressions as much as I am here.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:43 pm UTC

Well, what do we mean by "PC gaming"? The upcoming "Gabecube" will probably cause a decline in people playing games on PC, but replace it with something just as good.

by **Koa** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:07 pm UTC

mosc wrote:What part of that is unclear?

Everything else you said was fairly reasonable, but that sentence alone blew me away. I actually have to break it down a little. WoW certainly has a huge playerbase of people with active, paying subscriptions. It dominates the MMO genre and generates absurd amounts of revenue. But if we're going to talk about the death of a platform due to waning interests, we can ignore the financial formula of WoW's success for the moment.

WoW hovers around 10m active subscriptions. LoL has 30+m "active" (debatable what is considered active). TF2 has tens of millions (educated guess), Dota 2 is growing fast and steady and has become the most played game on steam by a wide margin. SC2 has 4+m active players (the stat being culled every few months, so fairly accurate). Sim City just sold several million copies and several more are expected. All PC exclusive (ignoring macs and such). This isn't difficult to find. WoW isn't the last vestige of PC gaming, it's a financial oddity and thus turns a lot of heads.

If you want to argue the relative markets of console vs PC you could probably make a point, but I'm not interested in that and that's not what you said. You said the whole medium was going "out of fashion". So, all gaming in general. The whole industry has constantly been on the rise. The rise has slowed down financially in the past year or two, but interest in the medium is constantly increasing. I don't see netflix replacing gaming.

Then you mention Skyrim as "still thriving" which is just silly. Maybe that's a semantic disagreement. I can't really tell how much of this is semantic as you seem kind of aloof with your assertions and I can't help but see it as ignorant and anecdotal.

by **mosc** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:24 pm UTC

Skyrim sold, that's why I called that out specifically. Sim City would be an interesting sample as it has many iterations of a fairly similar game over the life of the PC. I would be astounded if this latest version broke the sales record of earlier versions.

Steam is both the savior of PC gaming and the sound of it's oncoming doom. Steam is actively working on translating it's core onto a google-TV like linux device. Please don't misunderstand me to say that the games we play are dieing out or that the gaming industry is dieing out. It's just the platform is changing. I for one welcome our new steam overlords and hope they add all forms of digital media to their catalog and flawless service model. Steam is defining the format more than the hardware itself and at the same time providing a far easier means for pervasive "casual" games designed for phones and tablets to compete in the classic PC space.

Do I forsee no more RTS games? Sim games? MMOs? No. I just forsee the hardware changing and becoming far less tethered to a specific piece of hardware let alone one that is stationary.

by **Koa** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:07 am UTC

I see. So, largely semantic. Also a bit too speculative for me. Even identifying if Skyrim is unique or that Sim City 2013 has outsold previous titles in the series would be fairly difficult, unfortunately.

by **Ralith The Third** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:11 pm UTC

.. PC Gaming isn't dying. It's not even close. If PC gaming were dying, I wouldn't have a steam library full of new games, most of which aren't even ports, that I have to play at my leisure. I wouldn't have new games coming out on preorder that are both excellent and PC-exclusive.

by **SecondTalon** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:25 pm UTC

Steam doesn't release sales numbers, and most companies don't release their digital sales numbers either, making it difficult for an outsider to judge the market now can we please start talking about how ESO is a shitpile of a cash-in that Bethesda is doing it's best to distance itself from without pissing off it's parent company? That'd be swell.

And on the outside chance that doesn't make sense to you - have a shitty MSPaint mockup of ZeniMax's corporate structure - with a shitload of companies Missing! I just included a few more so you understand that ZeniMax is more than ZeniMax+Bethesda.

: ZeniMax.png (9.47 KiB) Viewed 919 times

Bethesda Game Studios developed the Elder Scrolls series and Fallout 3 - Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Redguard, Battlespire.... I think they also do the Mobile Games, but I may be mistaken and they may just farm those out. Anyone can Publish.. so that's not important. Developing means they actually write the shit - they code it, do the dialog, write the lore and so on.

Bethesda Softworks (a distinct entity) publishes the Elder Scrolls series.

When ZeniMax purchased Bethesda, it split the company into two - Bethesda Softworks kept the original name, but now only publishes games. Bethesda Game Studios is the people who actually make the games.

ZeniMax Online Studios is another distinct entity that ZeniMax Media owns. ZeniMax Online Studios is developing The Elder Scrolls Online. ZeniMax Online Studios is headed by a guy who helped create Dark Age of Camelot, Matt Firor.

It's also interesting to note that Bethesda Softworks, Bethesda Game Studios and ZeniMax Media (the Parent Company) operate out of the same building, while ZeniMax Online Studios is in another - 50 miles or more away. Yes, Internet and all make physical proximity not that important....

But it's still interesting.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:16 pm UTC

SexyTalon wrote:ZeniMax Online Studios is headed by a guy who helped create Dark Age of Camelot, Matt Firor.

That's the one part of your post that sounds like a good thing.

Well, if I do get into the beta, I'll be here bitching about the game as soon as the NDA is lifted.

by **SecondTalon** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

As an MMO, it'll likely be fine.

As an Elder Scrolls game - it makes no goddamn sense.

"Oh hi there slave race and blond jackasses who keep trying to invade - let's all team up!"
"As a representative of the noble blond warriors who are trying to retake our land from you blackend pansy elves and who don't give one shit about your lizard slaves who are so weak they die in our homelands, sounds awesome."
"As a representative of the noble Hist and who seeks to liberate those of our kind you Daedra-worshipping elves keep in bondage and don't give a shit about the blond jocks you keep fighting, let's totes be BFFs"

wat

by **The Scyphozoa** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:35 pm UTC

"The Ebonheart Pact is the most unlikely of the three alliances."

by **Koa** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:48 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:ZeniMax Online Studios is headed by a guy who helped create Dark Age of Camelot, Matt Firor.

That's the one part of your post that sounds like a good thing.

Eh. Mark Jacobs, Rob Denton, and Firor were all lead designers for DAoC. Jacobs and Denton went on to make Warhammer Online. "From the creators of DAoC" was one of their selling points. Warhammer Online went on to be relatively unsuccessful at launch, to several servers getting shut down and large company layoffs across Mythic, to EA trying to salvage the situation by merging Mythic into Bioware and converting the game to F2P, to MMO life support. Maybe Firor was the one with the magic sauce, but to me it just doesn't means anything. It's been 10 years.

And, yeah, those pacts... "Let's ally because we're stronger together and because fuck everyone else, amirite?" "Okee-dokee." If they had to go with the pacts I would have made different choices, but then there would always be some issues and I guess if you're going to screw the lore at all you might as well make it as formulaic as possible.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:18 pm UTC

Frankly I find the Khajiit in the Aldmeri Dominion more unlikely. But, I'm not much of an Elder Scrolls buff to begin with...

The only way you could change the alliances would be to rotate the borders, if the game world is going to be easy to navigate. Sure, you could maybe put Dunmer, Argonians and Khajiit together, then put the Nords with the Daggerfall Covenant, and then maybe split High Rock in half and allow Bretons to go with either the Daggerfall Covenant (except it wouldn't be called that because Daggerfall is the closest point in High Rock to Summerset) or the Aldmeri Dominion...that would make a teeny tiny bit more sense lore-wise but be needlessly complicated.

Or perhaps remove Orcs as a playable race, put the Bretons with the Aldmeri completely, and let the north-west part of Cyrodil be a PvE zone and let us play Imperials as part of the newly-renamed alliance of Imperials, Redguards, and Nords. But then, they wouldn't be able to put the Imperial City at the center of the PvP zone.

by **SecondTalon** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:39 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Frankly I find the Khajiit in the Aldmeri Dominion

It makes perfect sense... post Void Nights.

Pre-Void Nights... not so much.

Non-Orc Mer vs Humans vs Orcs and Beasts would have made slightly more sense, but.. really, the Beast and Orc factions should be independent operators, with the Man and Non-Orc Mer being the primary divide.

I also can't do anything but suspect they're going to shove Dwemer ruins everywhere.

by **CorruptUser** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Dibs on Breton. I virtually always play Breton; that magicka resistance is awesome. When I tried out Daggerfall (just to see what all the fuss was about), there was no reason to do anything except High Elf. Why? High elves were immune to paralyze. Combine with weakness to paralyze, boom, free skillpoints for whatever you want.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:56 pm UTC

SexyTalon wrote:I also can't do anything but suspect they're going to shove Dwemer ruins everywhere.

Don't worry, they have a really shaky but still totally admissible explanation for that too.
Of course, this means that all the adventurers during the Second Era who went into all those Dwemer ruins in southern Tamriel must have never reported it to any scholars.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Thu May 02, 2013 8:37 pm UTC

OKAY
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/p ... oldharbour

Some punkass at ZOS wrote:Molag Bal, the God of Schemes

"God of Schemes" would describe Boethiah, and Molag Bal hates Boethiah. This doesn't bode well for lore lovers. Unless I'm missing something. I'd love to be proven wrong.

by **Decker** » Fri May 03, 2013 1:40 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:OKAY
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/p ... oldharbour
Some punkass at ZOS wrote:Molag Bal, the God of Schemes

"God of Schemes" would describe Boethiah, and Molag Bal hates Boethiah. This doesn't bode well for lore lovers. Unless I'm missing something. I'd love to be proven wrong.

"God of Rape" might not play so well with some people. But yes, I agree that "God of Schemes" is pretty wrong, unless they have some plot device around the change.

by **Kulantan** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:20 am UTC

SexyTalon wrote:"Oh hi there slave race and blond jackasses who keep trying to invade - let's all team up!"

"Oh hi there slave race that came and ravaged any land that wasn't covered in 200 feet of ash after Red Mountain erupted."

I mean I can almost imagine the Nords and Dunmer on a team. Maybe they start treating the Windhelm Dunmer better and so on until a alliance is formed. But Dunmer and Argonians are SUPER ARCH NEMISISES. What the hell are they thinking.

by **The Scyphozoa** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:27 am UTC

Decker wrote:
The Scyphozoa wrote:OKAY
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/p ... oldharbour
Some punkass at ZOS wrote:Molag Bal, the God of Schemes

"God of Schemes" would describe Boethiah, and Molag Bal hates Boethiah. This doesn't bode well for lore lovers. Unless I'm missing something. I'd love to be proven wrong.

"God of Rape" might not play so well with some people. But yes, I agree that "God of Schemes" is pretty wrong, unless they have some plot device around the change.

Agreed, but something like God of Domination would have been perfectly fine.

Kulantan wrote:But Dunmer and Argonians are SUPER ARCH NEMISISES. What the hell are they thinking.

My guess...they took one look at Brand-Shei and said, "Yep, this will work."

by **SecondTalon** » Fri May 03, 2013 4:31 am UTC

Kulantan wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:"Oh hi there slave race and blond jackasses who keep trying to invade - let's all team up!"

"Oh hi there slave race that came and ravaged any land that wasn't covered in 200 feet of ash after Red Mountain erupted."

I mean I can almost imagine the Nords and Dunmer on a team. Maybe they start treating the Windhelm Dunmer better and so on until a alliance is formed. But Dunmer and Argonians are SUPER ARCH NEMISISES. What the hell are they thinking.

Er... The Elder Scrolls Online is second era, so.... that's like a thousand and some change years before Red Mountain blew up and sent the Dunmer out. Reman dynasty is still going, Tiber isn't due for another 400 years, Barenziah isn't around yet, Cyrus hasn't been born yet, etc.

It's all still firmly in the "A Dunmer wouldn't piss on a Nord if the Nord was on fire, and vice versa" years.

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