Swords & Potions

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Deva
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:25 am UTC

Acquired space for new members. Please provide your in-game name for an invite.

Wishes to discuss the next License Point purchase. Options:
1. Thug Defense (five points).
2. Thug Offense (five or twenty-five points).
3. +7 member limit (fifty points).
4. Improved cooperation (twenty-five points).
5. +1 License Point for fourth place in guild challenges (one hundred points).

Prefers better cooperation. Costs very little for thug improvements, however.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:37 am UTC

I'm not sure how useful thuggery is; my lvl 13 dude sits around and I've never had any issues? More crafting to me seems like it would mean more money, which means more LP.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:01 am UTC

I'm with you on the cooperation. I know I have a backlog of improvements I'm waiting on, and I have no shortage of places to put my cooperation points, too.

Plus there doesn't seem to be much point to the thugs. What does intimidation and vandalism actually do?
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Deva
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:06 am UTC

Intimidation: Reduce worker effectiveness.
Vandalism: Damage an improvement. (Repairs it with gold, not improvement points. Probably.)
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:09 am UTC

I vote for more cooperation and member limits - at our current stage it doesn't seem like our thugs are particularly valuable, and our improvement backlog probably isn't going to be a purely short-term problem.

Intimidation/Vandalism affect the shops of the targeted person in some manner - I forget how they're different, but I believe they decrease incoming customers for a week of gametime or so. They don't give any benefit to the person actually doing them, it seems to mostly be for if you're trying to sabotage others in a Guild Challenge. Burglary is more useful - 10% of their cash and the possibility of all of their items of a single type (e.g. all of their Lucky Amulets) - but seems to take a hella long time and you can't do it until shopkeeper level 40. Once we start getting targeted for burgling thug defense might be nice, but as of now we seem to be too low-level to bother with.

Ninja'd: Ah, so I was off the mark with the incoming-customers thing; I thought that was what vandalism did, though I'm pretty sure I remember Intimidation being what you said.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:14 am UTC

Remembered wrong, apparently. Never used them.
Wiki Answers wrote:Spying

It's the first task unlocked when hiring a thug. If successful, it will be easier to perform other thug tasks on the target shop for a set period of time. The number of stars show under the green arrow indicates how difficult it will be to successfully attack the target player. 0 stars = easy, 4 stars = very hard. There is randomness involved though, a 0 star can fail and, if you are very lucky, you might succeed on a 4 star. The player owning the attacking thug will also get a summary of the enemy playing time, money, top ten largest stacks of goods, top ten highest priced recipes, worker levels, guild affiliation, and 3 names of people who are enemies of the target. Spying takes one whole work day.

Vandalizing

This operation is unlocked at shop level 15 or unlocked for 50 tokens. If successful, the user from the attacking thug will gain more customers (and questers?) for 1 game day. In addition, one of the target's improvements will be damaged, requiring gold to fix. Furthermore, the target will lose customers for 1 game day. This takes 4 game days to complete

Intimidating

Intimidation is unlocked at Shop level 25 or unlocked for 100 tokens. If successful, the shopworkers' from the attacking player have their stats enhanced by 25% for 1 game day (does affect learning [research] but not necessarily by 25%; does not affect cooperation). In addition, the target's workers lose morale. Intimidation takes 4 game days to complete. (The old negative effect may still apply: a direct reduction of the target's workers' stats by 25% for 1 game day.)

Burglary

Unlocked at Shop level 40 or unlocked for 200 tokens. If successful, you will steal 2-10% of the target's gold or the whole stack of one of the target's items. There's no cap on how many coins/items can be stolen. Observe that successful theft is, as in real life, anonymous

Item stack stolen is completely random selected. Even if noticed, name of the attacker is not revealed. The attacker's name is only shown (sometimes) if the thug is caught and/or sent to prison.

After the recent update, burglary takes 7 game days to complete.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:52 pm UTC

Just a helpful note: When spending your improvement points to help others in the guild build their stuff, try to keep an eye out for things that have been completed by one craftsman but not the other. Remembering which things those are and syncing them up between lists is non-trivial (since not all things take two craftsmen, there's no indication of when something's been completed by one except that it doesn't appear on that list, etc.) but, for example, if there's two Runes showing in the sorc IP window but only one in the blacksmith IP window, sorc points should probably be funneled towards the one without a counterpart, since it's already done. (This should be especially helpful for things involving the carpenter, since it's backlogged so badly that making sure work that does get done is finishing off improvements should help our efficiency.)

No real harm done if the IP go somewhere else, just a guideline for if you're not sure where to put them. (I've also been prioritizing improvements for our fearless leader Deva, as ze seems to be on quite frequently so there should be a big benefit there.)
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Deva
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:57 pm UTC

Prioritizes somewhat already. Workshops > Back Store Carpet (cooperation/learning) > Production > Maximum Cooperation. Forgets memberships for those last two. Completes racks/others on whims. Tried improving some simultaneously (as in, two Bellows in Carpenter and Blacksmith). Worked okay.

Interesting note: Purchased a recipe (from a customer). Checked the list. Appears beyond a token unlock recipe.

Edit Note: Sorted projects. Placed five points in projects with one crafter remaining. Barely helped the carpenter.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:52 pm UTC

Part of the problem, I think, is the way the improvements are distributed amongst craftsmen. My blacksmith and carpenter both have about two pages worth of improvements needing help, but my tailor only has two. Two improvements, compared to about 30. And my sorc? None. Literally none as of the last time I was logged in.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:49 pm UTC

I plan to start this game soon. Any pointers? Anything specific I should choose to round out the guild e.g. first worker type?

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:48 pm UTC

Thugs aren't too great until much later on. I wouldn't bother with it for quite a while, personally.
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Deva
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:10 am UTC

Crafters: Might recommend Blacksmith/Tailor. Synergizes well, but with better profits than Blacksmith/Carpenter (probably). Appreciates carpenters for cooperation, however. Note: Started with Sorceress/Carpenter. May be biased.

General tips:
- Always pay people demanding money. Includes shady reasons, such as welcoming taxes. Tell them to return later, if necessary. Notes one exception. Benefits you to pay, however.
- Tends to profit, even when offered half-price.
- Save for workshops.
- Remember daily expenses while purchasing expensive improvements.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Meem1029 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:38 am UTC

Any chance I could join the guild? Name is joshjt on Kongregate. Just started playing today and it seems to be a pretty awesome (although addicting) game.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:35 pm UTC

Entered a research phase. Wants to know them before moving. Spent at least two hundred hours already. Estimated time remaining: five hundred twenty hours (across six projects). Ignored recipes too. Hopes for recipe sellers. Will pay fifteen thousand gold instantly.

Never involves the Sorceress. Wants another Blacksmith.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:56 pm UTC

That is A LOT of research. Why are your projects so long? Can't you level your crafters?
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:15 pm UTC

Levels them immediately. Cannot see Tailor/Blacksmithing stats currently, due to research. Recalls better cooperation and weaker crafting skills. Assumes similar research abilities.

Code: Select all

            Level Learning Research Cooperation P.Crafting S.Crafting
Sorceress     87       43       43          39         85         88
Carpenter     87       43       43          35         92         80
Tailor        72       36       37          49         71         70
Blacksmith    71       41       37          44         74         65

Struggles to craft enough. Dumped points into Leader (see: better crafting). Switched to suggesting Vials of Mana until moving day. Gains zero shop experience now.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:20 pm UTC

Quizatzhaderac, add please.
Last edited by Quizatzhaderac on Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:55 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:43 pm UTC

My tailor now has a max improvement point pool of 2k. That is neat.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:31 am UTC

Hired a new carpenter and sorceress. Sacrificed ten to twenty levels and crafting stats. Acquired cooperation and some learning. Increased from thirty-six cooperation to sixty-three. Should help with improvements. (Edit: Eventually. Requested twenty-five thousand carpenter points. Will take awhile.)

Recommends Adventuring highly (in the Royal Bazaar). Worked okay before. Ramped up. Crafted one item above ten thousand gold currently. Received several above fifty thousand. Exceeded one hundred thousand sometimes. Combined it with a mercantile boost. Gained a level by selling one expensive item.

Royal Bazaar sales breakdown:
Joint/Other: 65.8%
Alchemy: 14.74%
Tailoring: 8.02%
Carpentry: 6.25%
Blacksmith: 5.19%
(Note: Guessed some categories. Introduced unknown items.)

Do not be fooled by Blacksmithing's low numbers. Credits him (and questers) for most of that joint category. Crafts rings, armor, and weapons.

Started re-appreciating the sorceress. Demands rings and amulets often. Works better alone than everyone else too. Learned high cost, independent recipes.

Edit2: Gained four levels in one game day.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:43 pm UTC

My strategies:
Spoiler:
Try to maintain three of every commodity producible item. Except lucky amulets which sell very well (I stock 7).
If a craftsperson is stocked, I switch to research.
If no research is available (level requirements or partner is under stock), I craft until overstocked.

If item is over-stocked, I accept all offers.
If not, and if price is under 2/3 I haggle.
I have points in haggle.
If I haggle, I always accept the new offer.

Highest priority goes to items I've already sold, for which I have no stock.
Higher priority goes to items requiring multiple partners.

If a craftsperson is under-stock on joint items, but no single items, I'll wait to craft the joint items.

I research joint items first if possible.
It's usually not possible with all my other rules.
So far I've bought every joint recipe offered for gold.

I keep my thug busy continuously.
I noticed a significant boost in customers once I started spying.
I vandalize when I'm more concerned about selling; intimidate when I'm more concerned about producing.
I am not high enough reputation for robbing mechanics.
Our cooperative efforts:
Spoiler:
If anyone has carpentry to spare, my tailor's wheel is my highest personal priority.

I'm probably going to start picking projects randomly to improve the odds or clearing out the oldest ones. With the exception of workshops I assume that each person has picked the best improvement and hence all improvements are equal (although improvements being stuck is frustrating). If anyone has inordinately old projects, you can message me in game and I'll try to turn some attention to them.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Meem1029 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:15 am UTC

For contributing to improvements, I personally go for quests first, then workshops, then mostly whatever has the lowest requirements left.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:05 am UTC

Name on Kongregate: SnarkXKCD

Could I get an add to the guild? Not that I think I need it quite yet. Still figuring out the basics.

Edit: That was fast. Thanks Deva.

Edit: Making a fair amount of money each day, but not nearly fast enough for my liking. Need to suggest/haggle more often. I'd like to have at least 40k before buying my next workshop - likely carpenter. Is haggling/suggesting for almost everyone (in an attempt to gain experience slower) a valid strategy?
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:36 am UTC

At Snark: Never liked haggling. Lost too much money for too little gain. Suggested frequently, though. Might have gained more experience, overall. Suggestion success rate notes:
1. Do not suggest when you have the item.
2. Suggest something slightly pricier.
3. Suggest towards that class. Is it a Bard? Give them an instrument. Is it an Archer? Give them a bow.
4. Suggest the same item type. Medium gloves for medium gloves, axes for axes, and so on. Probably trumps point two and three.
5. Angers customers by failing haggles/suggestions. Causes less experience and fewer customers.

Updates: Purchased Cooperation III. Noticed no immediate differences. Gained identical amounts before and after.

Finished long-standing improvements. Targeted lower tier projects. Might switch to quests again soon.

Next license point options:
(New) Cooperation IV. Cost: 200. Supposedly, decreased time for joint crafting and increased cooperation.
(New) First Place Bonus. Cost: 100. +5 License Points for first place.
Thug Offense. Cost: 5/25.
Thug Defense. Cost: 5.
Alliance IV. Cost: 50. +7 member capacity.
Last Place Bonus. Cost: 100. +1 License Point for fourth place.

Votes for First Place Bonus. Assumes constant membership. Votes Alliance IV at fifteen members.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:02 am UTC

Just got the 25k from repairing the King's armor. Have 56.7k. Safe to spend 25k on a workshop? Or are there big quest expenses coming up?
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:09 am UTC

Wait a day. Triggers quests requiring gold by possessing a certain amount of gold (and other requirements, such as shop level). Tends to visit at the start of each day. Worst case scenario: tell them to return later. Do not say "No".
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:11 am UTC

First Place Bonus sounds useful, given the "maybe one other guild even has a member log in" history of our guild challenges thus far.

Snark - yeah, you're safe to spend on a workshop. Any quest expenses, with the exception of the Thug, you can always just ask them to "come back later" rather than refusing outright, and they'll happily do so. Just have to make sure you have enough to cover ~3-4 days of operating expenses, in case you hit a dry spell on sales.

And yeah, as far as suggestion success rates, what Deva noted seems accurate; as far as Point 4, though, I've noticed not everything seems to count even if within the same item class (e.g. Skull Crushers are blunt weapons, and Sledgehammers are blunt weapons, but I don't see the usual 80-90% success rates for suggesting a "similar item" when I substitute one in, instead just getting the ~35-55% success rates for "customer class likes that item type"). The success rates I've noted are:
-Suggested item is same type as required item, and slightly more expensive (up to about 1.75x the requested item's price): 90%
-Suggested item is same type as required item, and slightly less expensive (down to about 0.6x the requested item's price): 80%
-Suggested item is not same type, but a "primary" item type for that customer (e.g. instruments for Bards, bows for Archers) and slightly more expensive: ~55%
-Suggested item is not same type, is "primary" item type, but is slightly less expensive: ~40%
-Suggested item is not same type, is a type the customer likes but not "primary" (e.g. medium armor for Bards): ~35%
-Anything else, so long as the price isn't too ridiculously out of range (potions and what have you): ~25-30%

I'd also occasionally get successes on suggesting Fine Great Swords (~4.4k value) to people who asked for a Rapier (~1k value) at ~14% success chance. There didn't seem to be any correlation if they'd asked for a sword or not; the construction of the wiki makes me think it might be more that each item has a few "good substitutes", rather than a true "within the same item class" blanket bonus, but the "good substitutes" are usually the ones within one or two steps in price within the same item type.

You do lose some XP from failed suggestions and unattended customers; I'm not 100% sure about failed haggles.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:14 am UTC

Deva wrote:Wait a day. Triggers quests requiring gold by possessing a certain amount of gold (and other requirements, such as shop level). Tends to visit at the start of each day. Worst case scenario: tell them to return later. Do not say "No".

That's a good thought. Did that. Buying my carp shop now!

Thanks for the help guil members! Now just have to wait for a carpenter with decent stats to wander by.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:17 pm UTC

My ordered preferences for next license point purchases.
1) Alliance IV (if we're in danger of coming against the limit)
2) First Place Bonus
3) Thug offense I and II. I know we don't all use our thugs, but for those of us that do the lower ranks are cheap.
4) Cooperation IV
4) Alliance IV (if not urgent)
5) Thug Defense (based on out guild competition I don't think attack is likely)

I had somebody offer 0 gp for a lucky amulet.

I'm finding my sorceress is way under capacity. I have at least ten of everything she can make by herself without rare ingredients. It's been over ten levels since she got a new individual recipe.

Has anyone been robbed yet? I guess I don't need to worry about being robbed without active players in other guilds.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:40 pm UTC

So no one is asking for my carp items... Need to suggest them. Or level the carp up and research better items and then start suggesting. Still nice to have him though.

Approaching 40k slowly but surely. My money-making rate has slowed enough that I think I'll wait until I accumulate at least 45-50k before purchasing the sorc workshop and increasing my cost of daily expenses by adding another worker.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:07 am UTC

Snark wrote:So no one is asking for my carp items... Need to suggest them. Or level the carp up and research better items and then start suggesting. Still nice to have him though.

Approaching 40k slowly but surely. My money-making rate has slowed enough that I think I'll wait until I accumulate at least 45-50k before purchasing the sorc workshop and increasing my cost of daily expenses by adding another worker.

I've noticed the carpenter really doesn't do much on his own - just bows, some instruments and a club or two, none of which are in huge demand - but he's needed for tons of the improvements for guildies and works well with others (axes/spears with the blacksmith, a bunch of tailor co-op items, even he and the sorc get in on the fun sometimes with things like lucky amulets).

The sorc's actually a surprisingly reliable source of income - everyone loves rejuvenating herbs and vials of mana!
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:19 am UTC

I just got 10k for the Merchant achievement putting me at ~55k, waited a day and received 0 quests asking for money, so I just bought the sorc workshop. I'm at level 15. How am I doing?

And yes, I've noticed that there's a ton of carp/blacksmith and carp/tailor item combos. Getting them to sync up time wise is fun to try and plan.

Edit: You guys rock. Thanks for getting my sorc shop improved so quickly.

Edit 2: My 4 salaries sum to exactly 500 coins daily (at the moment). That's quaint.

Edit 3: Sold a little over 4k worth of stuff in one day (revenue not profit). Feeling pretty good about that. :) Doing a couple of needed bin upgrades and still pulling positive numbers at day end. That's nice. Sorc doesn't have a lot of items to make at level 10. And what is there doesn't get asked for much.

Edit 4: I feel like I'm making money way to easily comparative to my current level. Dumping it into 2 improvements, tons of level ups for workers, buying recipes when possible, and bin upgrades. I have a feeling I'm going to hit a dry spell when I have to move shop when I hit level 25 though.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:48 am UTC

Updates: Switched from 2 Adventurer: 1 Mercantile to all Silver Tongue. Succeeds at quests more regularly now. Cannot sell their rewards. Suffers on price difference. Asks for thirty thousand gold weapons. Sells for ten times that. Managed around twenty-five percent. Refuses most for customer retention. (Still rakes in plenty from quest rewards. Returned with 1.1 million before. Contributes nothing towards challenges, unfortunately.)

Finds the thug dodgy. Failed several easy spying missions. Succeeded decently at high level targets, however. Noticed level eighty thugs. Found one good player: Elvago. Cash: 30.4 million. Thug level: 104. Ranks as four stars (for thugging purposes).

At Snark: Might see better Sorceress results with levels/research. Probably crafts yesterday's news.

Is everyone craving Lucky Amulets? Noticed it among your recipes. Accounted for solid cashflow.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 pm UTC

Yeah the selling price to materials cost for lucky amulets is ridiculously high. I wouldn't say people are craving them but I certainly sell a good amount.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:10 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Finds the thug dodgy.

Heh, well, yeah.

I'm confused; you switched to all silver tongue and now you succeed at quests all the time? As in, you can suggest whatever you want to adventurers, and you automatically succeed?
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Quizatzhaderac » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:33 pm UTC

Deva wrote:Finds the thug dodgy.
I find it glaring that the thugs are so polite when you refuse to hire them. I'd expect actual thugs to suggest intercourse with the horse I rode in on.

When I was in the market lucky amulets were the main source of income from my sorc and carp, it's died down a little in guildhall.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:00 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I'm confused; you switched to all silver tongue and now you succeed at quests all the time? As in, you can suggest whatever you want to adventurers, and you automatically succeed?

Close. Gave adventurers cheap items. Succeeded often enough. Felt like sufficient Adventurer. Switched to Silver Tongue.

Plans to return to Adventurer/Mercantile, eventually.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:56 pm UTC

Snark wrote:Yeah the selling price to materials cost for lucky amulets is ridiculously high. I wouldn't say people are craving them but I certainly sell a good amount.

Keep in mind that if you're not using rare materials, the real "commodity" isn't materials, but time; past the very first couple items, with few exceptions, the material costs will be a fairly trivial portion of the item's overall sale price, whereas spending 7 hours to craft a 1.1k item vs. 5 hours for a 1k item with the same materials is a worse use of crafting time.

That said, I think cooperative projects typically have a higher value-per-hour than an equivalent-tier single-crafter item; it can just get a little irritating to try and sync them up when one finishes their part in half the time of the other.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Snark » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:16 am UTC

A thug asked for a job. One of his stats was blinking. What does that mean?
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:59 am UTC

Flashes at full cooperation points. Knows nothing further. Searched briefly before also.

Found competition. Might have spied on them earlier. Started spying on hmaset again. Failed twice. Ranked at three stars previously. Employed a level one hundred thug.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Koa » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:03 am UTC

I've been out of mithril for a while. I decided to finally do the outsource quest which rewards 30 mithril (my stockpile max is 30). Within an hour an adventurer walks in and rewards me with 7 mithril. "Damn it, I'll just have to use this mithril quickly." Next adventurer, 5 mithril. Next adventurer, 11 mithril. Next adventurer, 4 mithril. This game hates me sometimes.

Also, why am I seeing wooden rack of blunt/sharp weapons from devalue? You have 80m gold but are just now getting these improvements?


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