Doctor Whom

Rot your brains, then rot our boards

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Jorpho
Posts: 6139
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 am UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:53 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:femaledoctor.png
Tons of people have been going absolutely ballistic over it. It's all part of the PC mad extremist feminazi brigade agenda that will doom us all, apparently.
I would be very strongly inclined to believe that these "tons of people" are getting orders of magnitude more attention than their actual numbers would warrant. And why not? It's all solid grist for the marketing mill.

As far as I'm concerned, season 8 was the nadir and solidly demonstrative that crappy writing will thoroughly trump any casting decisions.

User avatar
Flumble
Yes Man
Posts: 1959
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Flumble » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:44 pm UTC

Just came across https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM12ZVHBNwQ and felt like it needs sharing. :mrgreen:

Mutex
Posts: 1098
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Mutex » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:00 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Mutex wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:femaledoctor.png
Tons of people have been going absolutely ballistic over it. It's all part of the PC mad extremist feminazi brigade agenda that will doom us all, apparently.
I would be very strongly inclined to believe that these "tons of people" are getting orders of magnitude more attention than their actual numbers would warrant. And why not? It's all solid grist for the marketing mill.

As far as I'm concerned, season 8 was the nadir and solidly demonstrative that crappy writing will thoroughly trump any casting decisions.

I'm talking about posts I've come across browsing Facebook.

And yeah, if the writing doesn't sharpen up then nothing else matters.

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 1871
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Alien-lizard city, Panama

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Weeks » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:28 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:femaledoctor.png


Image
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Kewangji wrote:I'd buy you chili ice cream if you were here, or some other incongruous sweet.
natraj wrote:i have a bizarre mental block against the very idea of people enjoying mint and chocolate together.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1004
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Liri » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:42 pm UTC

Weeks wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:femaledoctor.png


Image

Is this legal



Yeah I should catch up on Whoville. No idea what's been going on since xmas 2015.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7640
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Zohar » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:17 pm UTC

I wonder how frank the conversation was with the actress ahead of time - like "BTW, you know there's gonna be a bit of shitshow with you being a woman, right? Are you cool with that?"
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
Giant Speck
Bouncy Sex Marshmallow
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:30 pm UTC
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:29 pm UTC

Maybe she consulted Katee Sackhoff.
"Did I say recently that I love Giant Speck? Because I love Giant Speck. He is the best." - Weeks

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7640
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:21 am UTC

I doubt Starbuck was as widely adored as The Doctor before BSG came out...
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
Posts: 5673
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC
Location: UK/[St. Kitts and] Nevis Occasionally, I migrate to the US for a bit

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:38 am UTC

Zohar wrote:I wonder how frank the conversation was with the actress ahead of time - like "BTW, you know there's gonna be a bit of shitshow with you being a woman, right? Are you cool with that?"

I'm pretty sure every woman and any other minority member knows that there's going to be a shitshow as soon as they take the role that has previously been held by a white, heterosexual cis male. If you change any one of those categories people tend to complain.

Remember the brouhaha over the black Hermione?
'Look, sir, I know Angua. She's not the useless type. She doesn't stand there and scream helplessly. She makes other people do that.'
GNU Terry Pratchett

User avatar
pkcommando
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:22 pm UTC
Location: Allston, MA

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby pkcommando » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:16 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Mutex wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:femaledoctor.png
Tons of people have been going absolutely ballistic over it. It's all part of the PC mad extremist feminazi brigade agenda that will doom us all, apparently.
I would be very strongly inclined to believe that these "tons of people" are getting orders of magnitude more attention than their actual numbers would warrant. And why not? It's all solid grist for the marketing mill.

A bit like 2013 and all the "ew, he's an oooooolllllllld guy!" BS around Capaldi's announcement. And that was after wading through all the obvious trolls.

Anytime a shitstorm starts over a new Doctor's announcement, these stories are worth a read.
"The Universe is for raptors now!" say Raptors, as they take over all of Universe.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7640
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:29 pm UTC

Angua wrote:I'm pretty sure every woman and any other minority member knows that there's going to be a shitshow as soon as they take the role that has previously been held by a white, heterosexual cis male. If you change any one of those categories people tend to complain.

Remember the brouhaha over the black Hermione?

Yeah, I meant, I wonder how open was this dialog between Whittaker and the producers.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
Giant Speck
Bouncy Sex Marshmallow
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:30 pm UTC
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:44 am UTC

Zohar wrote:I doubt Starbuck was as widely adored as The Doctor before BSG came out...

I mean, I'll give you that that the scale of the matter is nowhere near the same, but it's the most recent big example I could think of.
"Did I say recently that I love Giant Speck? Because I love Giant Speck. He is the best." - Weeks

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3619
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:49 am UTC

Seeing as there've been major pieces in all national UK newspapers about whether they should cast a female doctor the last couple of regenerations, I'm 100% sure she was aware what it would be like regardless of the amount the producers raised it with her
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
Giant Speck
Bouncy Sex Marshmallow
Posts: 3799
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:30 pm UTC
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:16 am UTC

I'd be almost kind of concerned if the actress chosen to play this character didn't know enough about the character to know why people were going to make a big deal about the casting.
"Did I say recently that I love Giant Speck? Because I love Giant Speck. He is the best." - Weeks

OP Tipping
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:23 am UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby OP Tipping » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:31 am UTC

Okay so the trailer is intriguing. Can't work out who that is, playing Polly.

User avatar
Jorpho
Posts: 6139
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 am UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:00 pm UTC

Welp, that was a bit rubbish. Fine acting by everyone involved and some amusing gags, but questionable writing. Bit of a wasted opportunity.

Spoiler:
The whole plot is focused on this business of The Captain being fated to die, and then ... he doesn't? I don't get it. Of course, there's really only one thing that's going to happen if you're filming a Christmas episode of anything as soon as Ypres 1914 is involved.

Also, you'd think the 10->11 regeneration would have been a good lesson in finding somewhere other than the TARDIS to regenerate. Oh well.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3147
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:05 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:Welp, that was a bit rubbish. Fine acting by everyone involved and some amusing gags, but questionable writing. Bit of a wasted opportunity.

Spoiler:
The whole plot is focused on this business of The Captain being fated to die, and then ... he doesn't? I don't get it. Of course, there's really only one thing that's going to happen if you're filming a Christmas episode of anything as soon as Ypres 1914 is involved.

Also, you'd think the 10->11 regeneration would have been a good lesson in finding somewhere other than the TARDIS to regenerate. Oh well.


Spoiler:
It's about the Doctor saving someone yet again. The Captain's not important (except to his family and himself, of course) - he's just an excuse to let 1 and 12 interact, and talk about why The Doctor.

And, while the 10->11 regeneration trashed the TARDIS, the 11->12 didn't, and if you go back to the classic era, there was at least one regeneration outside the TARDIS that almost failed and needed the Doctor to spend time in the TARDIS's Null Room to stabilise, so regeneration outside the TARDIS is also risky. Leaving the control room for it (or having a companion present to limit the options for damage) would probably be a good idea though.

Any bets on how long it'll take for a regenerated TARDIS to show up? I'm guessing end of the first episode (or second if it's a two-parter)

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4101
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:08 am UTC

While I enjoyed this Christmas Special, I second Jorpho's question.

Also, on a related note:
Spoiler:
Is the implication here that the Brigadier would never have been born had not Twelve taken his (grand?)father a few hours forward in time? In which case Twelve would not have had the history that led him to be who he was in order to do that. Bit of a grandfather paradox there. Not that that's the worst time travel logic this show has ever had. Wibbly wobbly.


Also, on an unrelated note:
Spoiler:
When was Testimony!Bill supposed to be from? She wasn't actually technically dead the last we saw of her, and this Bill remembers the events that prevented her death, and those events had the potential for her to live indefinitely after that. Is Testimony!Bill built from the memories of some future Bill who has had possibly many lifetimes worth of more experiences? In which case why does she seem exactly the same as last we saw her? Or is Testimony!Bill built from memories taken right before she "died" and Heather saved her? In which case, how does she remember being saved? (Similarly, is there now a copy of Captain Lethbridge-Stewart in Testimony from these events, and then also another copy from his actual death whenever he ends up getting around to that?)


I missed the previous discussion here about the Doctor's change of sex. I'm looking forward to seeing a female Doctor (well, more of her than the tiny bit we got to see already). However this is an odd occasion where that's the kind of thing I'd like to see in a show, because it works in-universe: we've seen that Time Lords can change sex and even race before, so having the Doctor for once not be a white man actually makes more sense than the alternative.

But I generally don't like just sticking [insert disadvantaged demographic] into already-established characters in most cases, like black Hermoine, lady Thor, the new Ghostbusters, black Spider-Man, etc., because it just seems forced and pointy. Create new characters to increase diversity, by all means, but changing the existing ones without some good in-universe reason just feels wrong.

(I will concede that for comics characters where the name is already passed from person to person, like the Thor and Spider-Man examples, that does count as an in-universe reason, and there's no reason the next person to have the title has to be the same sex/gender/whatever as the one before. But that's already a weird trope to me. Thor is Thor and Spider-Man is Peter Parker and while it's fine if someone else wields Mjolnir or uses web-shooters, they're a different character and should have a different name).
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:13 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:black Hermoine
That one at least wasn't the same continuity, so hardly on the same level. If the films can cast roles without paying attention to how the characters were described in the books, can't that play do the same?
any pronouns (mainly she/he)
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)
doogly wrote:Flicky reminds me of a puppy.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3147
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:44 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:While I enjoyed this Christmas Special, I second Jorpho's question.

Also, on a related note:
Spoiler:
Is the implication here that the Brigadier would never have been born had not Twelve taken his (grand?)father a few hours forward in time? In which case Twelve would not have had the history that led him to be who he was in order to do that. Bit of a grandfather paradox there. Not that that's the worst time travel logic this show has ever had. Wibbly wobbly.


No.

Spoiler:
The Captain says he has sons, so the Brigadier's father is already alive - though who knows how the Brigadier's life is changed by his grandfather... well, statistically speaking, roughly half the allied combatants survived unscathed, and a proportion were only wounded, so there's a reasonable chance the Captain survived - though him being a combatant from the start of the war rather than only joining in in 1917 probably puts him with a rather less than 50% chance of making it home despite making it through Christmas 1914. Anyway, having his grandfather survive at least a day or two longer, and possibly make it through the entire war, is going to have ripple effects even if they're not as serious as the Brigadier otherwise never being born. On the other hand, having the First Doctor involved means any changes took place before the Doctor ever met the Brigadier, so it should all have sorted itself out by the time they meet.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:50 am UTC

Spoiler:
I suppose, pre-Doctorisation, the Captain was to have been killed by his shell-hole companion but the companion did not need saving1. Except from various prior wounds, which (timely-wimely, the Doctor moving the entire No-Man's-Land along those few hours) he now did not, die of prior to the Truce happening. But it's not just Cpt LS who may have survived (at least for now) but his counterpart. One more man on either side, when the Truce breaks, or possibly one less willing Truce Breaker when the higher-ups on both sides inevitably order the Truce to end.

i.e. ripples. Not that ripples have bothered The Doctor much (except when they do!).


Truly, though, the biggest Grandfather Paradox is likely the (self-reinforcing) Grandfather (Of Susan Foreman) Paradox in which that it seems that it needs #12 to bootstrap the initial #1->#2 regeneration. But then, with all bets being off since the time that #11 did his post-Pandorica 'rethink the universe(s) into existence' thing (and other similar, if less total, cosmological restructurings during other season-finales/seasonal-specials), I'm not sure we are entitled to be quite that picky about this.


On the whole, I don't think this was a classic transition/plot-pushing episode (I was expecting a bit of Three Doctors, #s1, 12 and 13,at least, but #13 had only those few minutes setting up the new season), but it was Okish. It is known that putting off Regeneration (including #10's 'tidying up' prior to the crashing start of #11's reign) does make things more awkward, so no surprise that it wasn't smooth going once the decision to move on was made. We can only wait to see how this resolves in the 2018 season proper, whenever Reboot Season 11 is actually scheduled to start (Easterish?).


1 Cap L-S being reluctant to fire, he would not have co-killed his killer. I need to rewatch the episode with time to concentrate upon parsing the German spoken back - though I have the impression (and it's a predictable Trope to invoke) that his German echoes the very same doubts and hesitation as we hear in English, albeit not so resignedly, so would have fired in fear. But darn the selectiveness of the TARDIS's translator microbes, even at the very end (where there were two TARDII, unless they interfered with each other)!

Mutex
Posts: 1098
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Mutex » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:13 am UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:black Hermoine
That one at least wasn't the same continuity, so hardly on the same level. If the films can cast roles without paying attention to how the characters were described in the books, can't that play do the same?

If we're going to talk about Harry Potter characters getting recast with a different race actor, how about the character Lavender Brown who was played:
1. In her first appearance by a black girl
2. In her second appearance by a different black girl
3. In her third appearance, where she kisses Harry, as a white girl

(As is my understanding anyway.)

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:22 am UTC

Mutex wrote:she kisses Harry
Ron, not Harry. But the first two actors were extras with no lines, and aren't named as Lavender - you can only tell from the credits (which are sometimes provably wrong with regards to non-speaking parts). And the book where she kisses Ron is also the first time the books make it clear she's (probably) white.
any pronouns (mainly she/he)
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)
doogly wrote:Flicky reminds me of a puppy.

User avatar
HES
Posts: 4803
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 7:13 pm UTC
Location: England

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby HES » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:47 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:whenever Reboot Season 11 is actually scheduled to start (Easterish?).

That's a big ish. Autumn.
He/Him/His Image

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:17 pm UTC

HES wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:whenever Reboot Season 11 is actually scheduled to start (Easterish?).

That's a big ish. Autumn.

#insert joke involving a TARDIS…

(Seriously, though? Prior season starts in the new era were:
2005: March
2006: April
2007: March
2008: April
2009: some specials from Dec 2008 to Jan 2010, frustratingly
2010: April
2011: April
2012: September (to May 2013)
2013: specials in November/December
2014: August?!
2015: September!!
2016: n/a :(
2017: April
…so no clear trend, apart from my uneducated impression that Easterish has been important most of the time. They're just messing us about, obviously!)

Mutex
Posts: 1098
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Mutex » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:25 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
Mutex wrote:she kisses Harry
Ron, not Harry. But the first two actors were extras with no lines, and aren't named as Lavender - you can only tell from the credits (which are sometimes provably wrong with regards to non-speaking parts). And the book where she kisses Ron is also the first time the books make it clear she's (probably) white.

I know you're making the point the character wasn't really established before then, but it's still a credited character whose on-screen ethnicity changed to white in a particular universe the moment she had lines. So it's funny people bring up Black Hermoine and not Lavender.
flicky1991 wrote:And the book where she kisses Ron is also the first time the books make it clear she's (probably) white.

What does the book actually say that suggests she's white?

User avatar
flicky1991
Like in Cinderella?
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 pm UTC
Location: London

Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:01 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:What does the book actually say that suggests she's white?
There's a scene where Lavender and Ron are passionately kissing and it says "it was impossible to tell whose hands were whose". Ron is definitely very pale-skinned from other descriptions, so Lavender is almost certainly white.
any pronouns (mainly she/he)
----
Discord for Forum Games posters
(Please let me know if the link doesn't work)
doogly wrote:Flicky reminds me of a puppy.


Return to “Movies and TV Shows”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests