Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

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Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby cephalopod9 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:41 am UTC

It is good in a way that horror on television has not been good since the mid nineties if ever*.

I feel obligated to mention repeatedly that it is graphic, and really disturbing.
Especially for network t.v.
It's surprising what they put in there.
Blood spatter, and corpses on autopsy tables have gotten pretty conventional, but this one goes beyond that.

It's also beautiful to look at, and, so far, it's been intelligent. There's a lot of minute detail and good character moments.

If you were wondering if it is worth looking into, it is.
Also though, if you were wondering if it is hard to watch, it is. I'm trying not to over sell it, but it does pretty well at being creepy.

I'm really hoping other people on the fora are watching it.


*X-Files had its good horror episodes. At some point I'd like to see more than the first 3 episodes of Millennium, seems sort of forgotten.
American Horror Story had good visuals, and is probably a big part of the reason this got made, but did not hold it together story wise. Dexter and The Walking Dead have obvious horror elements, but I don't think either spends that much time being horror, and not drama or action.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby hawkinsssable » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:22 am UTC

I loved the pilot mostly for the Will / Hannibal interactions and beautiful visuals, but kinda felt like most of the characters (except for Hannibal) weren't really fleshed out enough. Female psychologist in particular, but also (to a lesser degree) Will - it would have been nice to see a bit more character stuff beyond that really nice bit with the stray dogs.

I liked the second episode, again mostly for the Will / Hannibal interactions. I quite liked the episode of the week arc, though it felt like the plotlines tied up a little too neatly and quickly. Again, I wanted more character development / character notes than the show gave us, but whatever. It's the first two episodes, so I can forgive it. I also don't really like episode-of-the-week procedurals very much, but a lot of my favourite shows started that way until they found their feet (Justified, for example) and there was enough here that was interesting and unique that I really wanted to watch the third.

And then the third episode happened.

What. The. Fuck.

It started off great - the cold open was brilliant and disturbing, we got to see a bit more of female psychologist, there's a nice little moment of levity with Jack Crawford, the plotline was a continuation of the first episode and so seemed to be heading towards some overarching plot instead of standalone episodes. And then THIS HAPPENED:

Spoiler:
The cold open makes very clear that Abigail Hobbs is traumatised by what happened, and heavily implies she didn't participate in the murders. And then... suddenly, with little explanation for why, she's a suspect, and the show seems to toy with viewers by implying she really could be guilty. Why?

Come to think of it, why does anybody think she would be guilty? Isn't her assisting her father somewhat incompatible with her father's motives for committing the murders in the first place?

Maybe not, iunno. But it seems REALLY FUCKING WEIRD, absent some public statement from the FBI, that everybody in the world of the show (like her friends and schoolmates) seems convinced that the girl her father almost stabbed to death was responsible for killing alongside him. But this... just kinda wasn't explained.

Anyway - blogger journalist chick gains access to Abigail at the psychiatric hospital (how?). She then monsters Will for a bit, even though last episode Jack successfully threatened her with obstruction of justice. (What changed?)

Blogger tells brother of one of the victims that Abigail was released (why?), setting up the major plot arc for the episode.

Abigail suspects Hannibal made the call and flags this in an awkwardly performed chunk of dialogue. She then talks with a 'friend' who was lurking inside the house (how? why?), and although the friend doesn't believe Abigail is a murderer, she displays no sympathy - not even false, teen girl sympathy - for the deaths of Abigail's entire family, the realisation that her father was a serial killer, and her lengthy time in hospital recovering from traumatic wounds. (why?) The dialogue clunks badly.

Whatever - I can forgive all that. But then...

Said girl is killed, and Abigail is escorted back to her house by Will, female psychologist and Hannibal. The house is surrounded by a crowd and a heavy police presence, ostensibly to protect her. Journalist breaks through the barrier, talks to Will. Hannibal, female psychologist and Abigail walk inside. Inexplicably, this is the last we see from Will this episode.

Abigail does some stuff with a knife, and the brother of the victim enters the house. Despite the police presence surrounding the house for this very reason, RIGHT AFTER it's revealed that somebody already slipped through and they should really be getting their shit together. She stabs him in kinda-not-really self-defence, he dies, and blood spills everywhere, including over carpet. Hannibal and female psychologist happen to be in a different room. As they enter, Hannibal neatly hits female psychologist's head against the wall, and she conveniently passes out with a small trickle of blood, no long-term injuries (ugh) and no memory that Hannibal was standing directly behind her when an anonymous assailant knocked her out.

Hannibal convinces Abigail to let him help her hide the body, implicitly in exchange for silence about his role in warning her father. She agrees.

And then, off-screen, they somehow remove the body, scrub the crime scene, concoct some bullshit story about what went down in the house. All the while, female psychologist doesn't wake up, Will doesn't re-enter the house, none of the police investigate. And that's that. The threat to Hannibal's secret identity as a serial killer is squashed - not due to Hannibal's charisma or sophisticated plan, but due to a tiny moment of opportunism following some incredibly unlikely / implausible series of events.

All I can think is that (lead writer) David Fury has kinda lost it since working on Buffy / Angel, and Bryan Fuller was responsible for the few little good bits towards the start of the episode.


Another episode as bad as this, and I'm not going to bother with any more episodes 'till the finale.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:42 pm UTC

The heavy dream imagery makes it kind of disorientating, but the way I saw it
Spoiler:
How would she know about the connection between the murders and the deer her father hunted? The first sign her father was up to something, from her point of view, was him slashing her mother's throat, and she's been in a coma since then.
I thought it implied she was at least subconsciously aware.
They are kind of overplaying Jack's role as contrarian, but he's not just saying to investigate
Spoiler:
Abigail because she's likely to be involved, but because Will is getting attached to her.
I mean, being traumatized by having her throat cut open doesn't mean she wasn't involved, much less an unwitting accomplice.


There were definitely some challenges to suspension of disbelief there, but I kinda feel like it was more a problem of how it was presented and not a fatal flaw in the plot.

Spoiler:
In particular, not showing what the police and investigators saw after the brother was stabbed.

If a respected investigator directed them to look for an injured man fleeing the house, they wouldn't search the premises, and the blood would only need to altered, not eradicated completely.


There's also the meetings with Freddie,
it's implausible that they happened the way they did (even though it's a big property that would be difficult to contain, and she does this for a living), but not that they would happen at some point.
They do need more of a motive for her to be as ridiculously antagonistic as she's been, though.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby hawkinsssable » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:17 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:The heavy dream imagery makes it kind of disorientating, but the way I saw it
Spoiler:
How would she know about the connection between the murders and the deer her father hunted? The first sign her father was up to something, from her point of view, was him slashing her mother's throat, and she's been in a coma since then.
I thought it implied she was at least subconsciously aware.
Fair point, that did go a little over my head.

I assumed that
Spoiler:
her father had told his family what was going on between the phone call and the police - but actually, I can't remember how that scene went down, and it was probably pretty different.


cephalopod9 wrote:They are kind of overplaying Jack's role as contrarian, but he's not just saying to investigate
Spoiler:
Abigail because she's likely to be involved, but because Will is getting attached to her.
I mean, being traumatized by having her throat cut open doesn't mean she wasn't involved, much less an unwitting accomplice.

My problem wasn't so much with Jack (even though a little more explanation might have been nice - but I might have missed some stuff in the first episode), but with
Spoiler:
apparently everybody in Abigail's social circle / the wider world suspecting her. Was there a basis to this I missed (like some scandalous blog posts from Freddie), or did it just come completely out of nowhere?

I mean, in movies like We Need To Talk About Kevin the way everybody treats the mother as responsible seems plausible (but equally rage-inducing) given our weird hangups about mothers, mothering and parenting. In Hannibal, it felt like... everybody just did suspect this person, for no clear reason.


cephalopod9 wrote:There were definitely some challenges to suspension of disbelief there, but I kinda feel like it was more a problem of how it was presented and not a fatal flaw in the plot.

Yeah, I guess my bigger problem with this episode is the plotting rather than necessarily the plausibility of what went down. The sequence of events just felt contrived, convenient and pretty clumsy - kinda on a level with the average-to-worse-than-average episode of Criminal Minds.* Which is a shame, since Hannibal seems to have much loftier ambitions than Criminal Minds, and did quite a few things really well in the earlier episodes.

*
Spoiler:
For example, like you said, two people breaking a police perimeter within a few minutes of each other. Neither one is that implausible, but it still feels like they're just pulling a rabbit out of a hat when, conveniently, red haired brother guy appears in order to get stabbed and tie up the loose ends of the episode.

Even if you kept the main elements of the plot, it seems like it would be possible to alter the situations a little to make the plot holes a little less obvious.


Apparently the next episode is being skipped, as per Bryan Fuller's request, because it's quite violent and that feels inappropriate in the aftermath of the tragedies in Boston (even though there's no direct relevance.) This feels a little odd to me, since based on the first three episodes I can't imagine the next episode after that is going to be much less disturbing or violent. Maybe he's just trying to skip a dud episode, and the one after will be better?
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu May 02, 2013 2:52 am UTC

hawkinsssable wrote:My problem wasn't so much with Jack (even though a little more explanation might have been nice - but I might have missed some stuff in the first episode), but with
Spoiler:
apparently everybody in Abigail's social circle / the wider world suspecting her. Was there a basis to this I missed (like some scandalous blog posts from Freddie), or did it just come completely out of nowhere?

I mean, in movies like We Need To Talk About Kevin the way everybody treats the mother as responsible seems plausible (but equally rage-inducing) given our weird hangups about mothers, mothering and parenting. In Hannibal, it felt like... everybody just did suspect this person, for no clear reason.
I thought about commenting further on that, but it got unpleasant to think about
Spoiler:
the plausibility of a young woman being ostracized and outright attacked by the community when her only involvement in a crime was as a victim
The show has a kind of sickening realism to it. For all the murder themed shows/ police procedurals on t.v. they hardly ever manage to put real weight to violence and horror that they feature.

There's been a few exceptionally horrifying moments that they've let coast by without having explain it to the audience, or worrying about making enough of a spectacle of it.
Spoiler:
One of the Angel Makers was alive but paralyzed for fifteen minutes after being carved up. That's one of the most disturbing things in the series so far, and they're on to the next thing within 30 seconds of mentioning it.

Again, I'm kind of amazed this is network prime time t.v.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:34 am UTC

Ohm gads this show. This show it is so good.

Severe crush on Will. Holy crap. All the vulnerability. Good job creating a character the ladies will fall in love with and want to protect, television.
Hannibal. Good job making the audience want his approval.
Amazing amazing cast.
Wonderful fun psychology and a bit of magic. X-Files meets a real drama version of Twin Peaks. And then Gillian Anderson ACTUALLY shows up! WTF? Scott Thompson, AND EDDIE IZZARD!
GOD I love Bryan Fuller.

Though this episode was the least good yet, it had some great lines. However everyone kept repeating themselves for the first five minutes "he thinks he's the Chesapeake Ripper" "he's not the Chesapeake Ripper." blah blah.

Fuller keeps posting fan art on twitter. Makes me wish I was that sort of artist. My fawning and sycophantism over twitter probably isn't winning me anything.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:24 am UTC

This show made the sight of mushrooms having sprouted from the ground feel a little sinister.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:36 pm UTC

I just watched the first five episodes. This show should be called "Watch Will Graham get Hannibal's dick lodged in his brain"
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby zmic » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

I really enjoy this series but I'm afraid it's quickly turning into a parody of itself, with every week a more zany mutilation of a human body than the week before.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:08 pm UTC

I'm very much liking this show but I think they're kinda rushing all the plotlines together. It's only 13 seasons and surely most of that will pick up next season, but I feel like they could have handled things better, at least in the latest episode (episode 12).

Spoiler:
Probably it's just me not being able to follow things properly, but it seems like one big mindgame, greater than all the ones we've seen this season. We know Hobb's daughter helped him, and she told Hannibal, and Will knows but Jack things Will did it and so it goes. Also that one episode where Hannibal fights that other killer in his office was dreadful. I could stand the fact that two killers would go against each other, but I expected something like that scene where they're eating dinner. Nothing physical but rather cerebral. That fight sequence was just embarrassing and I think the lowest point in this awesome show.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:22 am UTC

Awe I liked the one where Hannibal
Spoiler:
fights the other serieal killer, but i also really enjoyed that relationship with that patient. And I guess the last person Hannibal staged a murder of was a surgeon whom he considered a friend, so making Will take the fall for him is not completely out of place with his notions of friendship. Abbigail can't live because then Hannibal will be instantly implicated...but she can't die because then Will will be instantly implicated....suspense!
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby zmic » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:14 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Sprocket wrote:Awe I liked the one where Hannibal fights the other serieal killer


One glaring plothole is how Hannibal got away with that fight so easily. It would have been obvious to the investigators that Hannibal simply executed the other guy while he was laying helplessly on the floor. Next episode everything is cleaned up and Hannibal is serving dinner as if nothing ever happened.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:46 pm UTC

zmic wrote:
Spoiler:
Sprocket wrote:Awe I liked the one where Hannibal fights the other serieal killer


One glaring plothole is how Hannibal got away with that fight so easily. It would have been obvious to the investigators that Hannibal simply executed the other guy while he was laying helplessly on the floor. Next episode everything is cleaned up and Hannibal is serving dinner as if nothing ever happened.

I find that sort of stuff really ignorable in the show, probably because I'm so used to Fuller's Surrealism. But it definitely doesn't work as well in a show that has so much regular realism.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby cephalopod9 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:08 pm UTC

Is NBC a bunch of sadists for waiting 'till the last minute to renew the show, or is Brian Fuller the monster for making that season finale when it was still possible the whole series could have ended there?

Sprocket wrote:
zmic wrote:
Spoiler:
Sprocket wrote:Awe I liked the one where Hannibal fights the other serieal killer


One glaring plothole is how Hannibal got away with that fight so easily. It would have been obvious to the investigators that Hannibal simply executed the other guy while he was laying helplessly on the floor. Next episode everything is cleaned up and Hannibal is serving dinner as if nothing ever happened.

I find that sort of stuff really ignorable in the show, probably because I'm so used to Fuller's Surrealism. But it definitely doesn't work as well in a show that has so much regular realism.
The surrealism is captivating, and disorientating. It's also worth keeping in mind that the forensics aren't the focus of the show, in fact it inverts some of the conventions of the Crime Procedural Drama*, and that Hannibal is ridiculously manipulative.


*
Spoiler:
Jack Crawford in any other show would be the hero.
The quirky FBI consultant is a complete monster.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:26 am UTC

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:42 pm UTC

Anyone out there still watching?
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Weeks » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:06 pm UTC

I just started watching, and I love it. Still only through the first 5-6 episodes of season 1, but yeah. Mads Mikkelsen is fantastic.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Bloopy » Mon May 05, 2014 4:05 am UTC

I enjoyed season 1. I found the 1st episode confusingly implausible, with the psychology pals doing the FBI's frontline work, but I got used to the show after that. I didn't recognise Gillian Anderson! I find Mikkelsen's Hannibal to be an entertaining but dislikeable character. Which is not a bad thing, just a contrast from the films, where I was rooting for Hopkins to hunt down the free-range rude.

I'm looking forward to seeing season 2 whenever it turns up on my TV or I seek it out.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Soul Sauce » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:00 am UTC

the ending to season 2 was epic, chilling the last scene.

I've always watched this show for the writing, camera work and characters, not the gore.


Spoiler:
when he on the plane and his psychologist is sitting next to him, crazy. And he had showed up at her house in his 'plastic suit' reading to killer her. I do wonder if next season will be set in Europe. I wonder how it will all unfold.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby centrifugal » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:44 pm UTC

Although I liked the first two movies (Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal), and although I also admire the Danish actor's cinema work I'm a bit disappointed by the series. albeit I've only watched the first two episodes so far. The super intelligent comments are very pretentious, and the over the top gore has stopped being scary for me since I was 14 or so.

Feels rather underwhelming at the moment, but maybe it gets better later.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:55 pm UTC

centrifugal wrote:Although I liked the first two movies (Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal), and although I also admire the Danish actor's cinema work I'm a bit disappointed by the series. albeit I've only watched the first two episodes so far. The super intelligent comments are very pretentious, and the over the top gore has stopped being scary for me since I was 14 or so.

Feels rather underwhelming at the moment, but maybe it gets better later.

Oh me yarm IT'S SO GOOD! Yeah it's not really scary. I don't think it's supposed to be scary. If it was scary I wouldn't be watching it. I'm not really into scary.

I don't find it pretentious at all. It's poetry, not actual academia. Like if the second and third Matrix movies had done a way better job with their random philosophical bs dialogue and not just been giving crappy hand jobs. I'm poetic too, see!
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed May 27, 2015 3:37 pm UTC

After two and a half episodes, I have to ask... is Freddie Lounds the most evil person on the show? By a wide margin?

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Fri May 29, 2015 2:32 am UTC

Well, she's certainly the most opportunistic one. But by the half of second season or so, maybe less, you'll grow to like her, or at the very least hate her much less.

I can't wait for the season premiere, but I am worried that they are gonna try to tackle way too many storylines this season. We've got Hannibal and Bedelia, Red Dragon and Mason Verger.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:18 pm UTC

I KNEW she wasn't dead!

Almost done Season 2, and I just read Season 3 started last week on real TV?

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:49 pm UTC

Episode 3 tomorrow.

And the Season 2 finale (which would have a made an incredible series finale) is one of the finest episodes of TV, ever.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:51 pm UTC

Season 2 finale...

That was a horribly, horribly beautiful 20 minutes.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby AngrySquirrel » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:01 pm UTC

I'm about halfway into season 2 and there's one thing that really bothers me, but I'm unsure if it's cause of netflix or if it's intentionally done that way. All the noises are SUPER LOUD while the voices are really quiet. So if I want to hear what people say I have to turn the volume up, but then the music gets so loud it hurts my head. It is very annoying, especially as that metal clanky drum thing is on a frequency that makes me really uncomfortable.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:44 pm UTC

I think the show's just like that. I've seen other people have the same complaint, but I haven't had that problem much this season.

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:47 am UTC

Just watched the finale. AAAAAGH want to discuss.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:47 am UTC

Discuss discuss discuss away!!!!!


I LOVED it. I kinda don't even want the show to continue because this finale was superb. I mean, last year I said to myself that if the show continued there was no way they'll top that ending and they did, so who knows. Just the way the ending was choreographed, the Siouxsie Sioux song, everything. I think it was the perfect ending to a great show. I admit season 3 started very slow, there were a couple of episodes where I thought that the plot didn't really move forward, and by Fuller's own admissions they sometimes over did the pretentiousness of it, but it all worked for the show. I wished we had had more time with the Red Dragon; Armitage is a fantastic actor and I wished we had seen more of his performance, but considering most of what he showed us was body language, I think he did a good job. Fiennes' Dragon was different, not necessarily better but I think he sold me on Dolarhyde easier than Armitage.

And I loved that last shot of Bedelia and how you can interpret it in different ways.

I'll miss this show so much!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby charliepanayi » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:42 am UTC

I wish the Red Dragon stuff had taken up more of season 3 as well, the first half in Europe dragged somewhat. I really liked the ending, though I was giggling somewhat knowing that Tumblr was probably exploding with delight about it. It's a shame if that is the end but it's had a good run considering how Fuller's previous shows have fared.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby Sprocket » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:14 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:I wish the Red Dragon stuff had taken up more of season 3 as well, the first half in Europe dragged somewhat. I really liked the ending, though I was giggling somewhat knowing that Tumblr was probably exploding with delight about it. It's a shame if that is the end but it's had a good run considering how Fuller's previous shows have fared.

I actually preferred the first half of the season. It was so pretty and had lovely depth.
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Re: Hannibal (NBC T.V. series)

Postby jules.LT » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:37 pm UTC

Sprocket wrote:I actually preferred the first half of the season. It was so pretty and had lovely depth.

Me too, but more. Seriously, I found that Red Dragon booooring, as compared to the actual cast of the show.

Looking back, the thing I am most uncomfortable about in this show is how little actual agency Alana Bloom has, as compared to Hannibal, Will and Jack.
Especially considering that the movie that started the whole craze _Silence of the Lambs_ had such a powerful female character.
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