Sword Art Online

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Izawwlgood
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Sword Art Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:09 pm UTC

Holy fuckbats it's awesome. A TV show about MMOs. Only two episodes in, but it is hilarious and great.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby PeteP » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:33 pm UTC

Rant about the logic of the setting (contains a spoiler since I talk about things that don't happen):
Spoiler:
Okay let's say the people outside can't get around the kill switch, I can accept that since they can't experiment safely. And let's say they can't forge the log out command.
They still will have access to the servers the game is running on. Such a system can't run without some redundancies in case one server has a defect, meaning they should be able to isolate one of the servers and analyze it safely. You can't tell me that people with access to the running hardware won't find a way to at least cheat. Manipulate items, manipulate levels, extract information and give it to the players in game. Hell catch death signals and connect them to your own custom server instead.
I can't believe that the outside world doesn't find a way to interfere.

(More significant spoiler)
Spoiler:
Yes even with the admin being in the game and able to interfere with outside interference.


Btw the Otherland books from Tad Williams contain much VR (and in the beginning an MMO), for people who like the setting.

Edit: But yeah the first two episodes weren't bad.
Though the third already shows signs of the reasons why SAOs massive popularity puzzles me.(Though at least the first half of the show isn't the second half.)
Spoiler:
For instance the things that don't make much sense: No Kirito telling them that you are high level wouldn't somehow have prevented them from opening the trap chest. The knowledge that a high level player is with them, won't make them more cautious. I can understand survivors guilt, but your though process doesn't make much sense. Also obvious trap was obvious.
Oh hey friend of Kirito you believe him soloing the monster is to dangerous. But oh other players appear who want the loot let's stop them and tell Kirito to solo the boss since it suddenly isn't to dangerous. Instead of you know falling back. But oh no Kirito wants to fight that think so you have to risk a confrontation with other players to allow Kirito to be suicidal. (Not that it's actually is dangerous to Kirito, since he is Kirito. But minutes a go you pretended to be worried.)
Hey notice that the girl in the group is the only one Kirito actually cares about? Oh hey dead girl you are awfully cheerful when predicting your death, how about actually returning to the town of the beginning instead of just trying to prevent Kirito from feeling guilty.

Though the shows inability to make me care about his dead guild is the biggest problem.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:20 pm UTC

Lol. Anime thread is that way :-p. I have many complaints about this show, but overall I have to admit that I enjoyed it. Gelsamiel had a good summary of problems, in that the main character is basically a Gary Stu. I'm sure he'll visit this thread soon with his opinion.

My primary issue with the show is the faux-action girl treatment the female lead gets. After episode 2... Asuna's character goes downhill. :? :? Not even... downhill in a good way. Just, the plot around her gets stupid. I had higher expectations going into the anime. So just forewarning about her. The other major issue is how many parts of it are... arbitrary... to say the least. Its hard to describe without spoilers, so I'll just leave it at that. I ended up watching the whole thing (yes, even past episode ~16 or so. You'll know what i mean when you get there :wink: ), and even enjoyed it.

And the last thing that pissed me off was just pure spoilers, so...
Spoiler:
WTF with the sexual tension between Kirito and his younger "sister" (who is actually a cousin)? So much plot was devoted to those two. Lots of emphasis on "Well, they're cousins, so its not really incest" going on there...


PeteP wrote:Rant about the logic of the setting (contains a spoiler since I talk about things that don't happen):
Spoiler:
Okay let's say the people outside can't get around the kill switch, I can accept that since they can't experiment safely. And let's say they can't forge the log out command.
They still will have access to the servers the game is running on. Such a system can't run without some redundancies in case one server has a defect, meaning they should be able to isolate one of the servers and analyze it safely. You can't tell me that people with access to the running hardware won't find a way to at least cheat. Manipulate items, manipulate levels, extract information and give it to the players in game. Hell catch death signals and connect them to your own custom server instead.
I can't believe that the outside world doesn't find a way to interfere.

(More significant spoiler)
Spoiler:
Yes even with the admin being in the game and able to interfere with outside interference.


Spoiler:
Kayaba was more than willing to send the kill-switch to hundreds of people when they began to interfere with the game at the beginning. (ie: families trying to take off the helmets). He's basically holding all of those guys as hostage.


Although really, if you wanted a better plot, .Hack//Sign is that way. Too bad you need to beat 4 games and watch two anime seasons before you get the whole plot. :( (REALLY slow moving plot... a glacial pace). But yeah, in that anime, while everything takes place inside of "The World" (the MMO of .Hack//Sign), there are meetings and characters that are doing stuff in the real world. In .Hack//Sign, Bear searches hospitals and newspaper articles to try and solve the mystery of Tsukasa.

One OVA set actually, (.hack//Liminality) focuses entirely on the real-world events going on. What people are doing in the real world to resolve the crisis from inside the game. The .Hack//Sign anime however is purely "in-game".

Spoiler:
For instance the things that don't make much sense: No Kirito telling them that you are high level wouldn't somehow have prevented them from opening the trap chest. The knowledge that a high level player is with them, won't make them more cautious. I can understand survivors guilt, but your though process doesn't make much sense. Also obvious trap was obvious.
Oh hey friend of Kirito you believe him soloing the monster is to dangerous. But oh other players appear who want the loot let's stop them and tell Kirito to solo the boss since it suddenly isn't to dangerous. Instead of you know falling back. But oh no Kirito wants to fight that think so you have to risk a confrontation with other players to allow Kirito to be suicidal. (Not that it's actually is dangerous to Kirito, since he is Kirito. But minutes a go you pretended to be worried.)
Hey notice that the girl in the group is the only one Kirito actually cares about? Oh hey dead girl you are awfully cheerful when predicting your death, how about actually returning to the town of the beginning instead of just trying to prevent Kirito from feeling guilty.

Though the shows inability to make me care about his dead guild is the biggest problem.


Spoiler:
They walked in with teleport crystals at the ready. Kirito mentions that he's never seen that room before, and the sinker is that its the first time Kirito comes across a no-teleport zone. He obviously expected his guild to teleport out of there, but was surprised by the first no-teleport zone in the game. Furthermore, the dungeon where the guild died was floor 26, obviously Kirito cleared it earlier with the lead group already. (inside the same episode, it shows Kirito working with the lead group on floor 27). So he wasn't expecting any surprises.


I dunno, I liked that part, and it frankly seems like a solid part of the anime to me.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby PeteP » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Eh he tried to warn them when they got near the chest, so he realized the danger, though it was a bit late. But I don't have a problem with them falling for the trap or dying because of it.

My negativity in regard to SAO is partially a reaction to the fandom. I watched a huge part of the show, because I kinda enjoy reading negative reviews (oreimo was nice for that reason) and I have seen worse shows. But it is a anime with a big Gary Stu which is full of wish fulfillment. Kirito isn't very interesting and Asuna well faux action girl is a fitting discription. You could do so much more with the setting. When I hear people prasing it, I just get the urge to contradict them.


Question are the .hack games any good? I know the anime but was reluctant to get into the games.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:07 am UTC

I've mostly read wiki stuff, and haven't really experienced the .Hack games. Since they're PS2 games, they're kind of rare to find now a days. I guess I could always pull out my PS2, find them on ebay and then try them out though.

That said, this thread is about SAO. So I'll just leave some stuff here:

1st Opening Fandub. (By AmaLee)
2nd Opening Fandub. (Christina Vee is awesome)

EDIT Warning: the 2nd opening contains spoilers. So... yeah... just don't look it up till you get there.
Last edited by KnightExemplar on Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:03 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby ameretrifle » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:24 am UTC

Mostly rehashing what I said in the anime thread, but the first couple episodes I found okay, and the third, just. Risible. The time skip between episodes one and two was one thing, but the way episode three veered off from episode two was also just jarring to me. It just didn't seem to follow from what episode two seemed to be setting up. Plus, well.
KnightExemplar wrote:
Spoiler:
For instance the things that don't make much sense: No Kirito telling them that you are high level wouldn't somehow have prevented them from opening the trap chest. The knowledge that a high level player is with them, won't make them more cautious. I can understand survivors guilt, but your though process doesn't make much sense. Also obvious trap was obvious.
Oh hey friend of Kirito you believe him soloing the monster is to dangerous. But oh other players appear who want the loot let's stop them and tell Kirito to solo the boss since it suddenly isn't to dangerous. Instead of you know falling back. But oh no Kirito wants to fight that think so you have to risk a confrontation with other players to allow Kirito to be suicidal. (Not that it's actually is dangerous to Kirito, since he is Kirito. But minutes a go you pretended to be worried.)
Hey notice that the girl in the group is the only one Kirito actually cares about? Oh hey dead girl you are awfully cheerful when predicting your death, how about actually returning to the town of the beginning instead of just trying to prevent Kirito from feeling guilty.

Though the shows inability to make me care about his dead guild is the biggest problem.

Spoiler:
They walked in with teleport crystals at the ready. Kirito mentions that he's never seen that room before, and the sinker is that its the first time Kirito comes across a no-teleport zone. He obviously expected his guild to teleport out of there, but was surprised by the first no-teleport zone in the game. Furthermore, the dungeon where the guild died was floor 26, obviously Kirito cleared it earlier with the lead group already. (inside the same episode, it shows Kirito working with the lead group on floor 27). So he wasn't expecting any surprises.


I dunno, I liked that part, and it frankly seems like a solid part of the anime to me.
I'll take your word for
Spoiler:
the teleport crystals, though if everyone else missed that fact like I did, then I doubt it was put across properly. But that doesn't explain why he is very specifically all "But it's my fault for not telling you what level I really was~", which was my biggest WTF with the whole situation (though "hey, let's open the mysterious shiny box in the suddenly opened new area in the game that can murder us! Oh hey, are you screaming something loudly back there? Just a sec, I'm busy opening this box." kinda bothered me too. It may not technically be unrealistic, I know, but it's such a fucking cliche that it really feels unrealistic.). He's not "I failed in clearing this area" or anything, he's very specifically "If they had known what level I was, they would have been more careful". Which is the opposite of how anyone works. Was it supposed to be "If they'd known I was an expert, they'd have taken my warnings seriously"? Because that could make sense-- it would still be stupid, because they knew he was expert enough, and because his warnings still would have come too late, but it is a survivor's guilt thing that could make sense to think-- but that's really not how it came across. Though they might not have had time to actually explain that. The episodes I saw had pacing issues liek whoa.

I take it back, my biggest WTF with the whole situation was Rudolph. And the guy just hopping straight over the bridge without hesitation. And the thing with the monster. And how disjointed the jump from the previous episode was. Look, I had a lot of WTF with episode 3, okay?

Re: .hack, there are LPs on Youtube if you can't/don't want to search out the games. I watched NakaTeleeli's, the playlist for the first game is here. This may or may not have had anything to do with my being unimpressed with SAO, though I do suspect .hack did it better. Or it may be just that (mild spoilers for both)
Spoiler:
sentient AIs causing unexpected troubles are somehow more believable than Crazy Founder Guy tricking ludicrous numbers of people to trap everyone at once for whatever reasons. It's just a bit grandiose cartoon villain, you know?

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:02 am UTC

Mostly rehashing what I said in the anime thread, but the first couple episodes I found okay, and the third, just. Risible. The time skip between episodes one and two was one thing, but the way episode three veered off from episode two was also just jarring to me. It just didn't seem to follow from what episode two seemed to be setting up.


Technically, you're wrong. The time skip happened in the first episode after the credits. :wink: :wink:

SAO is mostly a series of short stories taking place inside of SAO, and while there is a little bit of an overall plot, it isn't very strong. The anime focuses on a singular plot after ~episode 15 or so, but before then its mostly little stories that barely add up to much overall. Which is perfectly fine frankly. Melencholoy of Haruhi Suzumia and Angel Beats did the same thing... very little overall plot but Angel Beats at least makes my recommendation list. (Haruhi is a must-see for Anime Culture, but I think its overrated)

It is what it is: a series of small adventures that Kirito goes through while in SAO...

Spoiler:
And after episode 15, a more unified adventure through Alfheim Online. I got my list of annoyances btw, but thats literally another story. :wink:


Spoiler:
I take it back, my biggest WTF with the whole situation was Rudolph. And the guy just hopping straight over the bridge without hesitation. And the thing with the monster. And how disjointed the jump from the previous episode was. Look, I had a lot of WTF with episode 3, okay?


Well, while I find some of those complaints fair, I have to disagree with...

Spoiler:
* Rudolph: it definitely twisted the knife feeling in my gut, and everyone I know as well. I liked it, in a sad way.
* Hopping over the bridge was definitely a WTF moment to me. Agree'd on that point.
* Evil Santa was awesome. I'm only mad that they didn't animate the fight, but I like the idea for Boss Santa 8-). Its not often you come across a Santa that would curbstomp Futurama's Santa. Or are you talking about another monster?
* Disjointed is sorta how that anime rolled, and a lot of other ones too. I guess it makes it par for the course for me


Furthermore, it did have a good effect on Kirito's character. They never did the cheezy Naruto-style flashbacks... but you knew from that moment on why Kirito would be cautious.

Spoiler:
Even in Alfheim Online, without perma-death... Kirito continues to stick to his resolve because of the experience in episode 3. I dunno, I find that touching.


---------------

BTW: if anyone is wondering what I mean that Kirito is a Gary Stu, this might explain the concept pretty well. Kirito kinda... just runs around the anime and pulls that shit off over and over again. >_<
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby ameretrifle » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:36 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Technically, you're wrong. The time skip happened in the first episode after the credits. :wink: :wink:
True, there were about seventeen of 'em XD

I see your point that it's an episodic anime, because looking back, it makes sense-- but with the plot they set up in episode one, there were absolutely zero indicators that it would be episodic at all. It's an urgent plot, a specific plot, and everyone's in a hurry at the end; and then it's episode 2, five months later or whatever. Which should've been a clue that it was going to be episodic, but episode 2 felt just as plotty as episode 1. It didn't feel like an episodic episode, it felt like the beginning of a normal story arc that had several places to go. And then episode three comes around and it's headed in yet another direction. What I saw didn't feel like three episodes of an episodic anime, they felt like episodes one, three, and eight of a standard story arc. There's a difference, and I just didn't think they handled it very well.
Well, while I find some of those complaints fair, I have to disagree with...

Spoiler:
* Rudolph: it definitely twisted the knife feeling in my gut, and everyone I know as well. I liked it, in a sad way.
Ha, fair enough, but the reaction when I watched it with an anime club was more stunned laughter and "are you serious?". Clearly, YMMV wildly with that scene.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby PeteP » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:18 pm UTC

As far as I know the episodes from 3 to 8 or so are side stories in the source material, which weren't part of the first volume. For some reason they decided to go the chronological route.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:51 am UTC

Because Kirito needed a larger harem. Gotta keep growing the size of that harem you Gary stu you... Hang out with all the ladies.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby PeteP » Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:25 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Because Kirito needed a larger harem. Gotta keep growing the size of that harem you Gary stu you... Hang out with all the ladies.

Spoiler:
There would really only be Asuna in the first game without the extra episodes huh.
Anyway question, because of the talk about SAO I rewatched episode 10 (the one where he and the guild leader have a duel to decude asunas fate) and if I remember right they don't need to eat do they? Don't they eat only for pleasure? Did it happen before that they drank pure water after a long walk?
Also, I see some balance problems with paralysis, if they have to eat it, it's one thing but in an earlier episode it was applied over a small dagger wound. A wonder that the PKler don't dominate the game.

And his hand reappearing in the next scene… It makes complete sense for a game but doesn't quite fit the scene before.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:46 pm UTC

Spoiler:
There seems to be some benefit to eating. They made a big deal over Asuna's in-game cooking skill for example, and the rarity of some rabbit that Kirito caught.

As for PKing... yeah... the only thing holding you back from killing people in SAO seemed to be honor... and the fact that you'd really be killing someone. If you remember in Episode 7 or so, it was considered incredibly dangerous to sleep anywhere outside of a safe zone. Especially with the "Sleep PK" problem... where they use your own finger to select the duel button. (Death inside of a duel doesn't change your status color). Furthermore, the orange / red status of a player would label you for the rest of the game as a PKer. So you'd be innately shunned from society.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:09 am UTC

Oh, and some non-spoilers :-)

I'm a fan of LiSA, the artist who composed and sings the opening song to SAO (at least, LiSA seems to be her performance pseudonym). You can see her name in the Credits. I've been following her ever since her role as Yui from Angel Beats. She was the singing voice actress for Yui, so whenever Yui sang, it was LiSA :-p. Anyway, Yui was the "newbie" character in Angel Beats, and similarly, LiSA was a newbie to the industry back then. So she played a fitting role in the anime. Aside from the great performance she did in Angel Beats... LiSA went forward and also performed Oath Sign (Fate/Zero's first op), and Crossing Field (SAO's first opening).

So thats 3/3 for me so far. Great job on Angel Beats, Fate/Zero, and SAO's openings. I'm liking what she's done.

My Soul Your Beats // Yui Version (Angel Beat Op): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tasiBAQnBU
Oath Sign (Fate//Zero op): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrMUzoBXF1M
Crossing Field (Sword art online): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA-ZdNkRBGA

Angel Beats had a musical element to it, so LiSA / Yui performed a lot of songs through the anime. (almost for no reason, but it was enjoyable :-p). I can make a list if anyone is interested.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:52 am UTC

So, I kind of have to give this show an enormous amount of credit. One of the awesomeness of MMOs is the way anybody, a delivery driver or a CEO, can enter a fantasy world and participate in something huge, be someone else, maybe someone important, and have a whole new life. This show takes that idea to the logical extreme, of following people as they set up and follow new lives.

The exposition is obnoxiously heavy handed, sure, and the characters are obnoxious anime to the extreme, but it's still fun. Kirito is absolutely Gary Stu (is that the term?), and I find it so eye rolling that he keeps having to fight for Asuna's freedom, despite the repeated insistence that she's a top notch player. The thematic elements of the world (both being an MMO and being a fantasy world) are McGuffin'd at every plot turn, but it still feels fun as hell to me. Yeah, a dagger paralyzes a tank in full plate armor? I hate how they're constantly both explaining and simultaneously surprised by how the skills and in game mechanics work.

My girlfriend asked what I'd do in that world, and I said 'Support healer, probably an Alchemist for shits and giggles' and she goes "Soo... You'd work on human disease and do science... Like in real life... Just sayin'"
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:07 am UTC

Kirito is absolutely Gary Stu (is that the term?)


Yup. As in, the male version of "Mary Sue". Its generally a criticism of fanfiction, as in you'd tell someone "Stop making your main character obviously an avatar of yourself... and absolutely godly in every way": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three [Kirk, Spock, and McCoy], if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship.


I find it so eye rolling that he keeps having to fight for Asuna's freedom, despite the repeated insistence that she's a top notch player.


The very definition of "Faux action girl". :-( Makes no damn sense, its like Asuna's fighting abilities are in name only sometimes, and she gets the "girly wrist" treatment too. (woops, someone is grabbing my weak, tender wrist. So all of my fighting ability will disappear!). Fortunately, there are other good major female characters in the story. Unfortunately... I got some criticisms of those characters. But you'll get there eventually :wink:

but it still feels fun as hell to me.


Yeah. As bad as the plot gets... I did have a fun time watching it.
Last edited by KnightExemplar on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:39 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:28 am UTC

Spoiler:
Apparently there are rumors on Gun Gale Online (the 3rd game for this series, and therefore the continuation of the story). Anyone else hear about it?
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby Vash » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:52 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:
Spoiler:
For instance the things that don't make much sense: No Kirito telling them that you are high level wouldn't somehow have prevented them from opening the trap chest. The knowledge that a high level player is with them, won't make them more cautious. I can understand survivors guilt, but your though process doesn't make much sense. Also obvious trap was obvious.
Oh hey friend of Kirito you believe him soloing the monster is to dangerous. But oh other players appear who want the loot let's stop them and tell Kirito to solo the boss since it suddenly isn't to dangerous. Instead of you know falling back. But oh no Kirito wants to fight that think so you have to risk a confrontation with other players to allow Kirito to be suicidal. (Not that it's actually is dangerous to Kirito, since he is Kirito. But minutes a go you pretended to be worried.)
Hey notice that the girl in the group is the only one Kirito actually cares about? Oh hey dead girl you are awfully cheerful when predicting your death, how about actually returning to the town of the beginning instead of just trying to prevent Kirito from feeling guilty.

Though the shows inability to make me care about his dead guild is the biggest problem.


Spoiler:
It might have prevented them from opening it, or at least from dying from it. Presumably, trap chests are a known thing, and they are tailored to level probably. Someone also mentioned the tp crystals, and that's another factor. Still, does not change that the trap would be more dangerous with him there, no matter what. It could be that the no tp crystal thing was a higher level thing.

I don't know what your second criticism is referring to.

Meh, a romantic interest is kind of an effective show tactic, though I have to admit some harem fatigue right now, so I kind of see that complaint. Not show killing, though. Also, I can see her legitimately wanting to struggle even though she is afraid, or simply being unsure of what to do.

I found it hard not to care about everyone stuck in the situation in the show, and they did some intro for the dead guild so that you care about them a bit. They also particularly make you care for Sachi, whom they also show to be the one he cared strongly about throughout the show.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby PeteP » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:23 pm UTC

Vash wrote:
PeteP wrote:
Spoiler:
For instance the things that don't make much sense: No Kirito telling them that you are high level wouldn't somehow have prevented them from opening the trap chest. The knowledge that a high level player is with them, won't make them more cautious. I can understand survivors guilt, but your though process doesn't make much sense. Also obvious trap was obvious.
Oh hey friend of Kirito you believe him soloing the monster is to dangerous. But oh other players appear who want the loot let's stop them and tell Kirito to solo the boss since it suddenly isn't to dangerous. Instead of you know falling back. But oh no Kirito wants to fight that think so you have to risk a confrontation with other players to allow Kirito to be suicidal. (Not that it's actually is dangerous to Kirito, since he is Kirito. But minutes a go you pretended to be worried.)
Hey notice that the girl in the group is the only one Kirito actually cares about? Oh hey dead girl you are awfully cheerful when predicting your death, how about actually returning to the town of the beginning instead of just trying to prevent Kirito from feeling guilty.

Though the shows inability to make me care about his dead guild is the biggest problem.


Spoiler:
It might have prevented them from opening it, or at least from dying from it. Presumably, trap chests are a known thing, and they are tailored to level probably. Someone also mentioned the tp crystals, and that's another factor. Still, does not change that the trap would be more dangerous with him there, no matter what. It could be that the no tp crystal thing was a higher level thing.

I don't know what your second criticism is referring to.

Meh, a romantic interest is kind of an effective show tactic, though I have to admit some harem fatigue right now, so I kind of see that complaint. Not show killing, though. Also, I can see her legitimately wanting to struggle even though she is afraid, or simply being unsure of what to do.

I found it hard not to care about everyone stuck in the situation in the show, and they did some intro for the dead guild so that you care about them a bit. They also particularly make you care for Sachi, whom they also show to be the one he cared strongly about throughout the show.

Spoiler:
Traps adjusting to the level of the highest one who enters would have been a reason, but I see no indication that it works that way. Normally thinks like that are explicitly mentioned if they are a reason for the mc to feel quilty. Is that info from the novels?
The second comment refers to the boss with the revive item, the reindeer.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby Dobblesworth » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:39 pm UTC

Having dabbled in a spot of mmorpg myself, there was plenty in SAO I found rather jarring
Second arc
Spoiler:
- Okay, so we've got a wings mechanic like Aion. If you beat the game with your faction, you and the rest of your one seventh of the playerbase will ascend and become gods and get permanent flight, and probably wipe the floor in PvP with the other six sevenths.
And the playerbase goes along with this. Can't see why they didn't see it as simply a ruse or a kobayashi maru of a quest, as there's no way something so broken and unbalanced would be introduced to a mutli-faction game.


First arc
Spoiler:
- Yeah, those beta testers. **** those guys. They had no idea the Oculus Rifts would fry our brains and they went to the lengths of compiling in-game players' guides and boss strategy manuals, but they're still complete ****s that the developers revamped the content between beta and retail so it took them 2 months to find the 1st boss. Us newbies had clear information that if we died in the game we died in real life, but we went out of the spawn zones anyway, some of us died, but surely we wouldn't have died if we all had one of the beta testers by our side boosting us, right? I mean, they're clearly cheating!
- It's a mimic. Oh gods how are you so gullible.
- Can't remember off the top of my head any specifics, but jargon/lexicon for guilds/raids whatever, it felt torturous hearing them used sometimes, as if they didn't quite get the proper context of use.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby drego642 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:04 am UTC

To begin, I really liked the first episode and just after watching it, I was fighting the urge to just crunchyroll it and abandon weekly programming as a whole. The premise was kinda shoddy, as mentioned in the first reply to this thread, but I really cared about the characters and their struggle to survive nonetheless. It also reminded me of another similarly-set series with a lot of nostalgic value for me (I affectionately refer to SOA as not-hack//SIGN).

The second episode was good overall too, I think, but I couldn't get over two specific events:

Spoiler:
Why did the party leader refuse the potion? He literally killed himself... in real life... to save the party a small vial of health? I mean, I get that he was a beta-tester himself, sure, and that many players' attitudes towards them aren't exactly favourable, but I don't understand why he was so dead set on not accepting the health vial. What did he feel so strongly about that made him choose to die?

A friend of mine who's seen the show before says that he died as some kind of act of repentance because he was just trying to get the good loot for himself or something, but I caught none of that. All I saw was some big heroic act of self-sacrifice with virtually no point.

Spoiler:
At the end of the episode, after Kirito gives Asuna his big "trust other people and let them help you, because no matter how strong you are, you may not be able to take on everything by yourself" speech, he contradicts himself in lightning-speed and dissolves his party then leaves to go take on everything by himself... I mean, he had to get out of there, sure, but she could clearly do some damage, and he kept marvelling at her skill... wouldn't he at least want to keep in touch with her?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't bring myself to believe either of these actions. Sometimes there are just small things like these I get really worked up over.

Apart from that, though, I like the show. I'm uncharacteristically able to look past the flaws in the premise and look forward to future characters and the group dynamic of the party members later on.
Last edited by drego642 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:12 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:10 am UTC

We're slowly working our way through the second season;
Spoiler:
BOOBS! Suddenly, BOOBS!

Which isn't that big of a deal, it's just a little obnoxious, also, a brief hiyo! to tentacle porn, which was just eye roll stupid. But what's really obnoxious;
Spoiler:
Now Kirito's sister is in love with him and he's just sooooo dense he doesn't see it, and the previously epically awesomely powerful Asuna is just a captured princess. The show basically took all the cool character development, and shat all over it all.


So, I dunno, at this point it's just kind of background entertainment now.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:06 am UTC

Well, I hope my warning earlier in this thread was well heeded. Can't say I didn't try to warn ya :D

If you want, I'll give you a quality anime recommendation. IMO, its worth it for the closure to just finish the show at this point, but I'm not going to even try to argue that the plot is decent.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:48 pm UTC

I'm kind of giddy about Otakon, and the director of SAO is actually coming to the convention.

Anyone have questions they want me to ask him? :-p
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby drego642 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:46 am UTC

Spoiler:
So now Kirito is trying to revive Sachi... Who died in front of him? "Died" ... as in, had her brain fried by microwaves and is now completely dead in real life...

How much of its own premise is this show going to forget, exactly?

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:42 pm UTC

drego642 wrote:
Spoiler:
So now Kirito is trying to revive Sachi... Who died in front of him? "Died" ... as in, had her brain fried by microwaves and is now completely dead in real life...

How much of its own premise is this show going to forget, exactly?


Spoiler:
You clearly didn't finish the episode. She's dead, and has been dead for months. However, Kirito hasn't moved on. His attempts to revive her were because of his self-denial and self-delusion. Eventually the truth reaches him.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby drego642 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:06 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
drego642 wrote:
Spoiler:
So now Kirito is trying to revive Sachi... Who died in front of him? "Died" ... as in, had her brain fried by microwaves and is now completely dead in real life...

How much of its own premise is this show going to forget, exactly?


Spoiler:
You clearly didn't finish the episode. She's dead, and has been dead for months. However, Kirito hasn't moved on. His attempts to revive her were because of his self-denial and self-delusion. Eventually the truth reaches him.

I finished the episode, in fact, and I got that.

Spoiler:
Except for the denial and delusion. I mean, he was there when the rules were made clear... Ah well, fair enough. I redirect that rant from the show itself to the character. Get it together, Kirito.

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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:12 pm UTC

I dunno, that episode really touched me personally. But it could be based on my own experiences. When life throws you hardballs, sometimes your brain compensates by trying to bend your perception of reality. Have you never had self-denial and self-delusion because you've come across something too depressing to believe it was really happening? When you've worked so hard on something, but come across failure anyway... sometimes it is impossible for your body and mind to give it up and move on.

Some people call it a "death march". You continue to work towards inevitable failure, because you refuse to accept the reality of your mistakes. When in fact, it would have been much healthier if you "gave it up" long long ago.

Seeing Kirito fall into this trap brings out the humanity in his character. I personally thought that episode was very well done.

Spoiler:
Kirito cannot believe Sachi died, especially when he considered himself a good guardian for the party. She died on his watch, so it is his responsibility to try and undo his mistake. Until the end of the episode, he was unable to come to grips with that reality. It was a beautiful tragedy IMO, one of the better episodes in the whole show.
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Re: Sword Art Online

Postby drego642 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:37 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:I dunno, that episode really touched me personally. But it could be based on my own experiences. When life throws you hardballs, sometimes your brain compensates by trying to bend your perception of reality. Have you never had self-denial and self-delusion because you've come across something too depressing to believe it was really happening? When you've worked so hard on something, but come across failure anyway... sometimes it is impossible for your body and mind to give it up and move on.

Some people call it a "death march". You continue to work towards inevitable failure, because you refuse to accept the reality of your mistakes. When in fact, it would have been much healthier if you "gave it up" long long ago.

Seeing Kirito fall into this trap brings out the humanity in his character. I personally thought that episode was very well done.

Spoiler:
Kirito cannot believe Sachi died, especially when he considered himself a good guardian for the party. She died on his watch, so it is his responsibility to try and undo his mistake. Until the end of the episode, he was unable to come to grips with that reality. It was a beautiful tragedy IMO, one of the better episodes in the whole show.

No, that makes sense I suppose. Knowing that now pretty much excuses the show from that little scrutiny of mine anyhow.

I'd planned on rewatching the episode before seeing tonight's anyway, so hopefully I'll get a different perspective on it this time around.


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