Daredevil (Netflix)

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Whizbang » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:44 pm UTC

RE: Episode 7 - "Stick"

Spoiler:
Shit just got real.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Yakk » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:32 pm UTC

Did you know that Daredevil has descriptive audio?

Well, award:

http://variety.com/2015/scene/vpage/dar ... 201524254/
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Angua » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:38 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Did you know that Daredevil has descriptive audio?

Well, award:

http://variety.com/2015/scene/vpage/dar ... 201524254/

Yeah, though they did forget to have it for the first week or so after it released.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Whizbang » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:43 pm UTC

Just watched episode 11 where
Spoiler:
Karen shot Wesley.
Surprise! Boy, Fisk sure is going to be angry.

In other news, I can't wait for
Spoiler:
Matt to finally get his costume.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Whizbang » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:58 pm UTC

So, watched ep 12 and 13 last night.

The only critique I have was on the final fight scene.
Spoiler:
So, I get that they had to make it seem like it was an even fight, or that Fisk was even the superior, but they did it wrong. For one thing, Matt has dodged bullets on several occasions, and yet he just stands there when Fisk roars and charges from 12 feet away. Likewise, Mat has had no problem dodging knifes and blunt objects when he wore only a black shirt, and yet now he can't dodge when Fisk grabs an iron rod off the ground? It really seemed to me that Matt was just testing out the durability of his new armor, and once he decided enough was enough, he just casually took out Fisk.

Here's how I'd try to portray an even match between Fisk and Daredevil on screen: So, Daredevil is all about agility and speed and skill. Fisk is a cunning behemoth, who likes to smash things with his forehead and double fists. So, have Daredevil flit around, kicking and whacking Fisk from all sides. Fisk, being cunning, just kind of takes the blows, but times his own slower strikes to land effectively. DD is jumping around landing many blows to Fisk that only seem to enrage him, then Fisk punches and DD goes flying and is stunned. Fisk then pummels him and DD gathers his wits and flits away again. This goes on and the two get bloodier and bloodier, Fisk from many, many blows and DD by several well timed and powerful ones. Ta Da, a more believeable fight. I would also have Fisk supported by several minions who keep DD's attention most of the time, or distract him at key moments for Fisk to strike.

'Cuz, I mean, c'mon. Matt has been taking on gangs of fighters the entire season, and when he goes one-on-one, he powns the other guy. Except for Nobu who was a master ninja assassin trained with the same skills as Matt.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Angua » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:12 pm UTC

So, season 2..... (hurray I actually had time off when it was released!!).

Spoilers below for all the things! Read at your own risk.

Spoiler:
It definitely took a much stranger, more mystic turn than I was expecting. I feel more excited for what's been all set up than I do for what actually happened this time though? Like, what the hell is Gao doing? Where's Matt going to work now that Murdoch and Nelson are no more. What is Elektra going to turn into? Are Stick and Matt now friendly? Who was the other kid who was 'black sky' - are there multiple black skies? Are they connected to the inhumans or is this something different? I'm guessing those kids were what makes the immortality juice? WILL WE EVER SEE BETSY?????? Is Murdoch going to send the envelope about Vanessa anyways??
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby maybeagnostic » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:33 am UTC

March Madness just tricked me into reading some season one spoilers. Oh, well, that's what I get for not starting the show immediately.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:12 pm UTC

I had a long response typed up and then chrome crashed and I raegquaat the replying process. But I've given it a while and now I've retyped the gist of what I had down:

Season II:
Spoiler:
I liked The Punisher arc. Especially toward the end.

I was less convinced with the Elektra/Hand/Stick arc. Felt grafted on and I wasn't very compelled to care about the characters involved. I don't understand why Murdock even kept associating with Elektra. Because she has tits? That doesn't seem in line with his character. Yet if she was some random guy from his past, I can't help but feel they probably be enemies. The hundreds of ninjas toward the end also felt sort of out of place. Daredevil is overall a pretty ambitious adaptation, yet Arrow arguably did a better job with the League of Assassins than Daredevil did with The Hand (which is saying something).
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby mosc » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:19 pm UTC

My buddy keeps harping this concept of "urban avengers" where Daredevil+Jessica Jones+Luke Cage+somebody else (Iron Fist?) of like constantly spinning seasons of intertwining shows. They definitely mention each other in passing and cross-over seems inevitable. I'm finding all of them a little dark and violent. The heros aren't killers but there's plenty of killing going on.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Angua » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:21 pm UTC

Isn't that what 'The Defenders' is going to be?
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby mosc » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:25 pm UTC

I guess it's a real thing.

I'm pretty meh on daredevil. I preferred Jessica Jones. The Luke Cage character doesn't seem to work for me either. He's just Jessica Jones with better protection and less brains.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby natraj » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:40 pm UTC

i hated jessica jones so deeply and i kind of despise daredevil too but i love luke cage so i hope his show is not as much of a terrible as these two.

i watched all of season 2 daredevil recently and had a hard time getting through it by the end it was like they wanted to take all the obnoxious racist nonsense they were going with in the first season and just DOUBLE DOWN on it all. the whole season was like the writers just wanking over the idea of white male violence. the show would be like 300x better if it was just about foggy instead he is its sole redeeming value that character is so great. i wish they hadn't been so busy jerking off over how awesome the punisher was to do a better job with elektra cuz she could have been so rad too.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Lucrece » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:26 pm UTC

I love how they grabbed Elektra and

a) Turned her from a Greek assassin to yet another twiggy French femme fatale. I'll never understand how male stars are asked to bulk up for a role which involves combat yet they keep bringing in these starved supermodels under the assumption that sexy = ability to send men twice your body size flying with a kick.

b) Made her kind of a brat mewling the entire time about wanting to be good.

c) She was supposed to be able to kill the Chaste, and yet despite being able to track silent ninja movement all of her recon missions with Matt had him constantly warning her and pulling her out of danger. She was so painfully incompetent for someone who is Stick's successor.

I just wish they would have stuck with the Punisher storyline and didn't derail the whole show with this mess of a Black Sky mumbo jumbo that they clearly ran out of time to cover.

Also, please, this universe is just wonderful for job acquisition and earning a living, because Karen somehow became in a few days some reporter without any training or credentials in what it takes many freelancers with degrees in journalism many years to land a job post on.


Meh, it's sorta pulpy fun and Foggy and Claire (I think that's Rosario Dawson's character?) are the best aspect of a show. But it is a Netflix show and Netflix shows just like Orange Is The New Black are kind of vapid soap operas in the end.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:21 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:I love how they grabbed Elektra and

a) Turned her from a Greek assassin to yet another twiggy French femme fatale. I'll never understand how male stars are asked to bulk up for a role which involves combat yet they keep bringing in these starved supermodels under the assumption that sexy = ability to send men twice your body size flying with a kick.


Honestly it's not that unbelievable. Being huge isn't really a good thing in martial arts. Look at Bruce Lee. Or look at a gymnast. They're strong as living hell without looking like a body builder.

She could have a bit more muscle mass, but I think it's the "huge" stereotype that needs to go if anything. And the series has done a reasonably job at that. Daredevil isn't very big, especially in comparison to The Punisher.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby DanD » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:47 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
Lucrece wrote:I love how they grabbed Elektra and

a) Turned her from a Greek assassin to yet another twiggy French femme fatale. I'll never understand how male stars are asked to bulk up for a role which involves combat yet they keep bringing in these starved supermodels under the assumption that sexy = ability to send men twice your body size flying with a kick.


Honestly it's not that unbelievable. Being huge isn't really a good thing in martial arts. Look at Bruce Lee. Or look at a gymnast. They're strong as living hell without looking like a body builder.

She could have a bit more muscle mass, but I think it's the "huge" stereotype that needs to go if anything. And the series has done a reasonably job at that. Daredevil isn't very big, especially in comparison to The Punisher.


The relevant adage is "a good big man will always beat a good small man".

Yes, a small, wiry, superbly trained martial artist has a good chance to beat an untrained fighter. But if you take two people at the same skill level, and give one of them an advantage of fifty lbs of muscle mass and six inches of reach on the other, you've got a pretty safe bet on the big guy.

Now the caveat on that is that large well muscled individuals frequently don't train as hard because they haven't needed to. Or they focus on, say, weight training rather than a martial art. But if they are trained martial artists, they do have an advantage.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby infernovia » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:26 am UTC

Well, all that said, the first season of Daredevil was still one of the better tv series I have seen. Not as good as the best (Homeland etc.), but still up there. And definitely the most enjoyable thing I have seen Marvel produce. I still like the casting of the extras (sells the violent gang image well), even if Elektra herself looks weak.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Lucrece » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:04 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
Lucrece wrote:I love how they grabbed Elektra and

a) Turned her from a Greek assassin to yet another twiggy French femme fatale. I'll never understand how male stars are asked to bulk up for a role which involves combat yet they keep bringing in these starved supermodels under the assumption that sexy = ability to send men twice your body size flying with a kick.


Honestly it's not that unbelievable. Being huge isn't really a good thing in martial arts. Look at Bruce Lee. Or look at a gymnast. They're strong as living hell without looking like a body builder.

She could have a bit more muscle mass, but I think it's the "huge" stereotype that needs to go if anything. And the series has done a reasonably job at that. Daredevil isn't very big, especially in comparison to The Punisher.


There's a reason we have separate weight classes in fighting. A bigger guy will brutalize a smaller guy given similar training/experience. Look at the recent Connor McGregor vs Nate Diaz fight; Connor was usually able to drop guys in some few punches. But with Nate, he just shrugged those punches off and proceeded to grind Connor into a pulp.

Your best bet for a smaller guy is grappling, but bigger men distinctly have an advantage in fighting, and the requirements go up for a woman fighting men given the massive upper body strength advantage. A woman of Elektra's build simply isn't going to convincingly send men flying around.

I'm just annoyed at how allergic entertainment media seems to be at bringing women in like Ronda Rousey or Holly Holm with strong builds because apparently some "sexy" alternative in a catsuit gains superhuman strength based on conventional attractiveness.

I mean, even casting Gina Carano would have done wonders. She really sold her part as a tough combatant in Deadpool and she's got UFC experience.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby infernovia » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:13 pm UTC

Weight does make a huge difference, but I am ok with the slimmer build in my films as long as it's not egregious (ex. sheer displays of strength). At the end of the day, it's comic book inspired reality.

That said, she could bulk up a bit.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby mosc » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:56 am UTC

In-universe there are "ninja powers" electra's using. They provide strength and healing and people can do things like suppress their heartbeat near zero while exerting themselves in extreme physical activity. This is the same universe that will give us Iron Fist soon enough who can channel his chi into a VISIBLE bundle of energy.

Ronda Rousey may be able to take on fighting men easier than Elodie Yung but Electra has ninja powers and dominates the lot of em.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby infernovia » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:02 am UTC

You are correct, but I still think that one of the strengths of daredevil is how well it sells that violent atmosphere. It would be nice to have her to look more powerful.

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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby mosc » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:13 pm UTC

infernovia wrote:You are correct, but I still think that one of the strengths of daredevil is how well it sells that violent atmosphere. It would be nice to have her to look more powerful.
I'm no expert on fantasy ninja powers or anything but you would have to speculate that Ronda Rousey with ninja powers would pretty easily take Elodie Yung with ninja powers, right? I guess in that regard it's still a valid point. Though maybe "fighting with ninja powers" is just a side job for Electra and her physical appearance is directed towards other goals?
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Wed May 04, 2016 10:09 pm UTC

Bit of a grumble, I've just watched Season 2 episode 'Guilty as Sin'.

This is re Electra and Karen:

Spoiler:
I really liked Vanessa as a character. Who was she? What was wrong with her? Why did she seem so normal? Did I even care? Of course not. She was interesting as fuck and didn't have to do a goddamn thing. She was powerful in her own right and I loved her for that. I hope we never see her again after the mess that they've made with Electra and Karen.

Like, Karen, she's fucking killed a man and they've totally dropped the ball on her character. She was interested in getting justice and at the moment she just sits around crying and not doing very much. She has about zero agency between Foggy and Matt.

Electra. Urgh. The 'I'm sexy and dangerous' characteristic has been DONE TO DEATH. I am bored with it. I don't need to listen to a woman orgasmically groan while she's supposed to be in pain. I'm fed up of the 'I just got critically hurt and the only thing that I could find in your wardrobe was your white shirt that only just covers my ass' (used for gratuitous panty shot while she's getting assaulted later). I'm so fed up of the 'strong independant woman who teases man and then needs to be saved trope'. It was so infantilizing to reduce her character to choosing between a father figure and her boyfriend. Like, Matt being all 'but we have to do this my way' like she's some sort of goddamn child that needs to be lead by the hand. Eurgh, gross.

And the whole 'I was sent to seduce you but my stupid woman feelings got in the way and I fell in love with you' trope. Are we not done with that? Isn't it creepy to have an old man send a younger woman (basically his daughter) off whoring because he's got issues with one of his proteges? Isn't he kind of acting like her pimp? Is that not gross?

I was hoping that they might elaborate on her character/backstory to make her more interesting than spoiled rich girl who is sexy and dangerous (but only in a non-threatening to Matt way). Like, I feel like she's going to hit someone over the head with a frying pan soon or she's going to be abducted or she's going to need to be saved (again). There's no agency in her character. she's not a cool woman acting on her own terms, she's been sent by a man to interfere with another man. Fuck that. Fuck all of that.

Plus side: Wilson Fisk is back because he's the best character in the whole thing. Foggy is also great.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu May 05, 2016 3:25 pm UTC

Curious. I was pretty annoyed with Fisk by the end of season 1, through no real fault of the character or actor, and his role in season 2 felt a little meh to me.

I think Electra's arc is pandery, but I'm curious to hear what you think about some future developments with her. Season 2 definitely suffers from trying to tell like 4 billion different stories, and kind of dropping the myriad balls.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Thu May 05, 2016 6:14 pm UTC

I really enjoyed Fisk because he's so weird? I don't see him like other super villains. He's clearly desperate for control and is absolutely unable to relinquish it and tries to play it off as a suave business man.

His character felt almost all 'show don't tell' which I appreciated. I enjoyed the juxtaposition of his fighting style (smash your face in with a brick or w/e) and his pulled together-ness that he has at all other times. He felt really fleshed out and not in a 'turns out I'm an ice giant kid and nobody ever told me so wah wah wah' way. There's complexity which has to be pieced together. I kind of wanted him to win because he was interesting and fun to watch and Matt seems to either be an entire jerk or really boring.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu May 05, 2016 6:52 pm UTC

I liked Fisk in the first season. In the second season ...

mild spoiler I guess
Spoiler:
he felt really shoe-horned in and they didn't show me nearly enough for me to be able to buy in to him getting control of so many people so fast in the prison.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu May 05, 2016 8:15 pm UTC

Heh, to that -

Spoiler:
I don't have a problem with Fisk assuming control of a prison in short order, because that's his super power. What bugged me was how inane a lot of his plotting seemed/seems. The emotional outbursts I can tolerate because he's still getting his shit together as The Kingpin, similarly to how I can tolerate Matt being kind of a wanker because he's still getting his shit together as The Daredevil.
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Re: Daredevil (Netflix)

Postby AffinityDesigner » Tue May 10, 2016 7:36 am UTC

I'm finding it difficult to know that I only have a few episodes left to watch of Season 2, but I moved to a new apartment right in the middle of finally getting around to watching the new season, and don't have internet yet at the new place. Ugh. Waiting....waiting. Patience has never been my strong suit.


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