Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

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Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:34 pm UTC

This is now the place to talk about where and how the show diverges from the books. Or where you think the show is going based on where the books have been.

Preferably using the following format


Book3/Season3Ep2
Spoiler:
Isn't it weird how Hodor and Stannis are in sync for Jaeger piloting?


And not the following format

Book Spoiler
Spoiler:
Here's things about the book and how the show literally pissed on it, which was weird, as I didn't think HBO could show watersports. Also unrelated show spoilers, followed by six more spoilers.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Difference Thre

Postby Lazar » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:46 pm UTC

What if we merely want to speculate on what might happen on the show, informed by a knowledge of what happens in the books? A conversation of that type isn't necessarily about the divergence between the two; it might well be about things that we expect will be the same. Wouldn't it make more sense to just call this something like "GOT/ASOIAF Combined Discussion Thread", rather than saying it specifically has to be about differences?
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Difference Thre

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:34 am UTC

Do spoiler tags make sense in this thread? Everything discussed should be about new developments in the show and how that relates to the books so everything will just end up in spoiler tags anyway. Also, as Lazar mentioned theories, predicting where the show and/or next book is going would be kind of impossible to tag with appropriate spoiler tags as you are not sure when exactly if at all things would happen.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Difference Thre

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:57 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:What if we merely want to speculate on what might happen on the show, informed by a knowledge of what happens in the books? A conversation of that type isn't necessarily about the divergence between the two; it might well be about things that we expect will be the same. Wouldn't it make more sense to just call this something like "GOT/ASOIAF Combined Discussion Thread", rather than saying it specifically has to be about differences?


That's a good point.

maybeagnostic wrote:Do spoiler tags make sense in this thread?


Yes. Because - and I know how annoying this can be, but it's true - not everyone has done the same things. There's some people only now starting the show who have read all the books. There's people doing it the other way around. For various reasons, they want to share whatever it is they're thinking about, usually couched in language indicating they expect their predictions are already proved wrong, but want to talk about them anyway.

And that's okay. It can be weird to someone who's up to date on both, but there's nothing wrong with that, and I'd like those people to be able to participate... and I'd also like people who click on here accidentally who read quickly to also not find out about Arya getting a pet dinosaur that travels time and skateboards.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Difference Thre

Postby Whizbang » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:12 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Lazar wrote:... not find out about Arya getting a pet dinosaur that travels time and skateboards.


Yes! I was right!

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby ArgonV » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:46 pm UTC

So let's see if I'm doing this right:

Season 5e9/book 5
Spoiler:
Can I now assume Tyrion, Jorah and Daario will rule while Daenarys is away in the show, instead of Barristan and what's-his-name in the books? It also looks like they're dropping Jon Connington and Aegon and Jorah will be playing the role of Aegon, leaving Daenarys as the sole Targaryen pretender?

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Lazar » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:21 am UTC

Spoilers/speculation/rumors for all books and show:

Spoiler:
Yeah, I guess those three will be in charge. I don't know how closely the Meereen plotline will adhere to the books from this point, but casting rumors indicate that the Iron Islanders will have a significant role next season. As for Aegon: I'm rather fond of the theory that show-Trystane will be revealed as Aegon, but I don't know how likely that is at this point. If they're doing it, it will have to come as a shocking reveal in the finale. If, on the other hand, Aegon is cut from the show, then I think that lends credence to the fAegon theory – the idea that book-Aegon is really a Blackfyre. There's some decent book-based argumentation for it, but I'm firmly convinced that it could work only within the book canon – the idea of revealing somebody first as a secret Targaryen, and then as a secret fake Targaryen, would be far too confusing for the show.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby maybeagnostic » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:01 am UTC

ArgonV wrote:So let's see if I'm doing this right:

Season 5e9/book 5
Spoiler:
Can I now assume Tyrion, Jorah and Daario will rule while Daenarys is away in the show, instead of Barristan and what's-his-name in the books? It also looks like they're dropping Jon Connington and Aegon and Jorah will be playing the role of Aegon, leaving Daenarys as the sole Targaryen pretender?

Further speculation on S05E10:
Spoiler:
Thereis a promo shot of Tyrion, Jorah and Daario sitting around dejected at the stairs of Daenerys' throne so they'll get out fo the Arena together at least. They might come to some sort of agreement to work together while they wait for her return but with everything happening next episode I don't expect they'd get more than a few minutes.



Speculation about next season and TWOW:
Spoiler:
It seems impossible to know how close the Mereen plotlines will be going forward and I don't even know if we can really say the one is adhering to the other at this point. The show is already ahead of the books in that respect and it changed nearly all characters. Daario is the only one around that is in a similar situation to the books. I'm sure the outcomes will be similar in some important ways but I expect the show will resolve the whole plotline in the first few episodes of Season 6 while Martin will probably need most of TWOW because of all the characters that have been converging there for ages but have yet to get there.

fAegon's disappearance seems rather problematic to me. What happens to Varys' motivation? He's a long established character that seems to have been working towards putting Aegon on the throne and getting Dany to marry him. Without him the second major conflict of the series (the titular Dance of Dragons that failed to happen in its own book) just sort of disappears. Maybe they'll just omit it entirely since they do need to move the story forward to the final conflict with the Others.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Quercus » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:33 am UTC

Apparently George is planning to finish The Winds of Winter before season 6 of Game of Thrones. I'm glad, because I wasn't looking forward to having to choose between watching season 6 right away, and waiting for the book to come out (I read all of the books before I watched a single episode of Game of Thrones).

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Obby » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:57 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:Apparently George is planning to finish The Winds of Winter before season 6 of Game of Thrones. I'm glad, because I wasn't looking forward to having to choose between watching season 6 right away, and waiting for the book to come out (I read all of the books before I watched a single episode of Game of Thrones).

Well he's made statements about when he hoped to have books completed and been horribly wrong before, so I wouldn't really get your hopes up on this count. Honestly, I kind of feel like waiting for the book to come out before you watch the next season is a bit of a losing game. Can you imagine trying to avoid spoilers for the TV show? It doesn't take much, articles frequently have spoilers right in their headlines, you don't even need to open the link. Even things like casting announcements or "Lena Heady seen filming at such-and-such location!" can be spoilers in their own regard. It'll be nearly impossible.

Plus, at this point the show differs on a large number of plot points, so even watching the show will only give you the broadest of overviews of some of what happens in the 6th book. And the 6th book is supposed to be somewhere around 1500 manuscript pages the last I heard (which will translate to around 1000 published), there's no way they're going to fit any appreciable portion of that into a 10 hour series. They're already writing S6 right now and filming usually starts some time in the fall, so there's no chance that they'll be pulling any material from the 6th book unless it gets published tomorrow.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Quercus » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:52 pm UTC

Obby wrote:
Quercus wrote:Apparently George is planning to finish The Winds of Winter before season 6 of Game of Thrones. I'm glad, because I wasn't looking forward to having to choose between watching season 6 right away, and waiting for the book to come out (I read all of the books before I watched a single episode of Game of Thrones).

Well he's made statements about when he hoped to have books completed and been horribly wrong before, so I wouldn't really get your hopes up on this count. Honestly, I kind of feel like waiting for the book to come out before you watch the next season is a bit of a losing game. Can you imagine trying to avoid spoilers for the TV show? It doesn't take much, articles frequently have spoilers right in their headlines, you don't even need to open the link. Even things like casting announcements or "Lena Heady seen filming at such-and-such location!" can be spoilers in their own regard. It'll be nearly impossible.

Plus, at this point the show differs on a large number of plot points, so even watching the show will only give you the broadest of overviews of some of what happens in the 6th book. And the 6th book is supposed to be somewhere around 1500 manuscript pages the last I heard (which will translate to around 1000 published), there's no way they're going to fit any appreciable portion of that into a 10 hour series. They're already writing S6 right now and filming usually starts some time in the fall, so there's no chance that they'll be pulling any material from the 6th book unless it gets published tomorrow.

Meh, you're probably right unfortunately. That's going to mess up my compartmentalisation between book plot and TV plot something rotten - so far I've been treating the books as canonical and remembering changes from the book to the TV series in my head. Switching to the TV series as primary will be interesting (yes, I know everyone is going to tell me to relax and forget about the details - but it's the details I like: keeping track of all the intricacies and intrigue is half the fun).


By the way, on that score, does anyone know of a good guide to the differences between the books and the TV show? I've become somewhat confused on several points.

Edit: I don't mean some monstrous set of lists like on the wikia page, I mean something ignoring minor trivia and giving a curated summary of the main differences.

Edit the second: this article looks decent (obviously contains spoilers)

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:07 pm UTC

I was just watching Tsipras speaking about Greece's situation and the bail out, and it just struck me how similar Thoros and Melisandre's High Valyrian speech in the TV show sounded ;o
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Whizbang » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:47 pm UTC


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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Lazar » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:41 pm UTC

I'd like to tell y'all why I just unsubscribed from the ASOIAF subreddit (/r/asoiaf), which has been my go-to venue to talk and read about the series. They're a nice, large, reasonably civil community; they have an acknowledged tendency to indulge in fanciful theories ("tinfoil"), but overall I've found it a pleasant and stimulating place. But since the end of Season 5, I – and a lot of other users – have found their spoilers policy to be completely intolerable. The overwhelming majority of threads there are tagged as "Spoilers All", and always have been; most people there have read all the books and watched all of the show, so naturally they want to open most threads to discussion about all the books and all of the show. The "Spoilers All" tag also allows production gossip, but that's okay; most regular fans are fine with hearing about who's been cast, or which filming locations are being used, especially since (until now) the show has mostly been limiting itself to material that we already know from the books. The problem, though, is that Season 6 is treading new ground – and that certain obsessive gossipmongers, chief among them a site called Watchers on the Wall, have devoted themselves to spoiling every last thing about Season 6 (and, by extension, TWOW) before it airs. If you want to seek that stuff out, that's fine – but on /r/asoiaf, the use of a "Spoilers All" tag on a thread (and remember, it's used on almost all threads) means that it's fine to reveal absolutely any piece of ill-gotten espionage. Ah, but couldn't you just use "Spoilers Released", to exclude gossip? Sorry, they don't allow that tag. But what if we combine two existing tags, "Spoilers Published and Aired"? Nope, combined spoiler tags aren't allowed either. On /r/asoiaf, there's literally no way to have a discussion about both the books and the show unless you're open to having the whole damn thing spoiled for you.

And the response from the mods has been totally deficient, verging on intentionally obtuse. They ignore widespread user concern on this issue whenever it's brought up. They imply that it's only diehard book purists who have a problem with set snooping; they fall back on a survey they did in early 2014, in which they found that 91% of the users have read the books and watched the show and thus, supposedly, have no qualms with Spoilers All. Except it's downright disingenuous to take these results – from a time when the show was still behind the books, mind you – and extrapolate that 91% of the userbase currently wants the climax of TWOW spoiled for them by some rando in an unrelated thread. That's blatantly false, and anyone familiar with the community should know that. I've seen numerous users express these worries: that they no longer feel safe clicking on any "Spoilers All" threads, even the ones with seemingly "safe" titles; that they've already had crucial plot elements spoiled for them without warning; that it's a dick move to reveal things like that, and shouldn't be allowed. And for every user who has spoken up, there are likely many more who haven't given the issue much thought, and just naively assume that a "Spoilers All" thread talking about so-and-so's character development in ACOK and Season 2 doesn't pose any threat. People use the "Spoilers All" tag by force of habit, and they use it because the mods have willfully denied them any alternative. But as the rules stand now, I can go into any "Spoilers All" thread (i.e. almost any thread) and reveal to everybody there who dies at the end of Season 6, just for the lulz, with absolute malice in my heart. And the mods are perfectly fine with this.

I've had nothing but pleasant interactions with the mods thus far, and I've even supported some of their more controversial actions in the past. But on this issue they've just gone round the bend, and they're wholly out of touch with the concerns of the community they moderate. I honestly can't explain it. And I wasn't going to go along with this madness by scrounging around, ratlike, for the few rare threads not labeled "Spoilers All". Despite my affection for the community, despite the fact that it's pretty much been my sole resource for ASOIAF news and discussion, I had no choice but to unsubscribe. And since this isn't a personal blog post, my point here is to warn everyone else: Do not visit /r/asoiaf. It's no longer a safe place for any ASOIAF fan who doesn't want the whole thing spoiled.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby maybeagnostic » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:55 am UTC

Well, I am sorry to hear that. I stopped reading r/asoiaf and r/gameofthrones some time in August after the amount of rampant speculation based on casting choices, set leaks and paparazzi shots of actors in their daily lives got totally overwhelming. I hope they'll sort everything out by the time the new season begins because both places have a lot of interesting content during season runtime.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Lazar » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:28 am UTC

Yeah, fortunately I was able to avoid the big season 6 spoilers that people were talking about. Right now the only safe place I know of on Reddit is /r/pureasoiaf, which is purely about the books – but it doesn't see too much activity.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Lazar » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:45 pm UTC

The S6 trailer is out. (And it's gonna be on my birthday!) It looks pretty good; hopefully this season can dispel the somewhat widespread idea that the show jumped the shark in S5.

Trailer and books:
Spoiler:
From what we can see, it looks like Melisandre will try to resurrect Jon and the men of the Watch will try to stop her, with Davos (reluctantly?) taking her side. But there should be a hell of a lot of tension between those two once he learns what happened to Shireen.

We see some shots from the Tower of Joy fight – a welcome confirmation that the show hasn't forgotten about its backstory. And we also see Bran (presumably in a vision) next to the Night's King, which should be interesting.

Also, as a followup to my earlier post, the mods of /r/asoiaf have finally bowed to user concern and implemented a sane spoiler policy that distinguishes between officially released and leaked material. I'm grudgingly resubscribing – but having seen the dismissive and disingenuous way that they treated users who raised these concerns in the past, I still have a bad taste in my mouth about what had originally seemed like a pretty good mod team.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thr

Postby Obby » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:08 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:
Spoiler:
And we also see Bran (presumably in a vision) next to the Night's King, which should be interesting.

Spoiler:
I would say it's definitively a vision/green dream. Bran appears to be standing.

Also, is that Euron? At first I thought it was Theon kneeling down, but when I pause at that particular spot I don't think it's Theon, and someone near him clearly has the Kraken on his breastplate.

Lazar wrote:Also, as a followup to my earlier post, the mods of /r/asoiaf have finally bowed to user concern and implemented a sane spoiler policy that distinguishes between officially released and leaked material. I'm grudgingly resubscribing – but having seen the dismissive and disingenuous way that they treated users who raised these concerns in the past, I still have a bad taste in my mouth about what had originally seemed like a pretty good mod team.

I was also unhappy about how they handled that. I didn't unsubscribe, but I have been tending to skip past most of the content on /r/asoiaf and /r/gameofthrones in my feeds. I'm glad to see they're changing their minds, though I doubt I'll actively start reading much of the subreddits again until the season is closer to airing.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Flumble » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:44 pm UTC

I want to save myself from watching the season 6 trailer (also I haven't read any books), but I'm curious about two characters: Brandon and Baelish. Does the trailer (or the books) hint at continuing their storylines?
I think these are the greatest stories never not yet told and it'd be a shame if they won't progress this year.

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Lazar » Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:59 am UTC

Bran is seen doing something rather notable in the trailer, yes. This season is moving ahead of the books, but all indications seem to be that Bran will be a crucially important character in the later stages of the story.

Baelish isn't shown in the trailer, but I think he'll continue to be significant.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Flumble » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:41 pm UTC

Thanks. Now it's a matter of waiting til the 25th/26th.

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Lazar » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:40 pm UTC

Ugh, I think I'm going to unsubscribe from that silly subreddit once again. The mods just announced that spoilers from the early season premiere in LA, which is tonight, will be freely allowed in threads tagged "Spoilers Everything" – the tag that the vast majority of posters continue to use, despite the act that they now have alternatives to it. At this point I blame both the mods and the users for turning the sub into a hostile environment. The Others take them all.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Mikemk » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:16 am UTC

S6E1 prediction (potentially not a spoiler)
Spoiler:
I predict the Red Woman will die. Not sure how.
Computer specs:
Spoiler:
Intel i5-750 (OC 3.33 GHz)
8GB (OC 1333 MHz) (2GB HDD cache)
NVIDIA GT 740 (OC 1149 MHz) 4GB (OC 841 MHz)
480GB SSD (120 HDD cache)
2x2TB HDD (not RAID)
Windows 10
Linux Mint in VM

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Lazar » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:59 pm UTC

Guh, even my last ASOIAF-related bastion on Reddit, /r/pureasoiaf, has succumbed to its own kind of madness. The mods there just put up a post saying that anyone who mentions anything show-related, even accidentally, will now be subject to an immediate permaban. Lots of people, like me, got into the franchise through the show, and it's absurd to punish people in this manner for making what may well be an innocent mistake. I think this draconian policy is symptomatic of the fact that so many of the sub's users are, frankly, delusional show-avoiders who imagine that they're going to remain unspoiled until TWOW comes out. (Spoiler alert: they won't.) God, I fucking despise Reddit in all its varied manifestations. It's a shame on me that I continue to use that site.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Adacore » Tue May 10, 2016 7:41 am UTC

Season 6, Episode 3; Book 5:
Spoiler:
One thing this season is definitely doing is confirming a lot of the more widely accepted theories. With the extent of the foreshadowing and Bran's visions, R+L=J is almost completely confirmed now (although I've not known anyone who doubted it for a long time). Also, since the end of DWD I've assumed that Mellisandre would resurrect Jon, thus triggering the "inverted Nights Watch Oath" stuff: he died, his watch has ended, and thus he can/will take a wife, hold land, father a child, wear a crown, and win glory.

The dragon-taming stuff also lends credence to the theory that Tyrion is actually Targaryen, and will be the third dragon-rider. I'm not sure I completely buy that one yet, though.

Also, some divergences. I'm really interested to see if the books go in even remotely the same direction as the show for Sansa and Rickon, and whether Arianne actually has major plot-relevance. Those plots really feel like they've been greatly simplified to keep the show more streamlined.

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby LaserGuy » Tue May 10, 2016 5:36 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:Season 6, Episode 3; Book 5:
Spoiler:
One thing this season is definitely doing is confirming a lot of the more widely accepted theories. With the extent of the foreshadowing and Bran's visions, R+L=J is almost completely confirmed now (although I've not known anyone who doubted it for a long time). Also, since the end of DWD I've assumed that Mellisandre would resurrect Jon, thus triggering the "inverted Nights Watch Oath" stuff: he died, his watch has ended, and thus he can/will take a wife, hold land, father a child, wear a crown, and win glory.

The dragon-taming stuff also lends credence to the theory that Tyrion is actually Targaryen, and will be the third dragon-rider. I'm not sure I completely buy that one yet, though.

Also, some divergences. I'm really interested to see if the books go in even remotely the same direction as the show for Sansa and Rickon, and whether Arianne actually has major plot-relevance. Those plots really feel like they've been greatly simplified to keep the show more streamlined.


They also confirmed the completely obvious theory that
Spoiler:
Robert Strong is Ser Gregor


On the Tyrion theory,
Spoiler:
I loathe that theory and will be really disappointed if that's how things play out. FWIW, I'm pretty sure that in the show, at least, the dragon has three heads prophecy was never given.

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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Diadem » Thu May 12, 2016 10:38 am UTC

On the Tyrion theory:
Spoiler:
I agree with Laserguy. L+R makes sense, because it's so well foreshadowed and fits the characters perfectly. Tyrion being a secret Targaryen would just be a lame twist for the sake of moving the plot. It would also be a bit too much of a coincidence.
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu May 12, 2016 5:08 pm UTC

Further on the Tyrion theory:
Spoiler:
I always hated that version- Tyrion is too much like his father. IMO the better version is the one where Cersei and Jaime are Aerys' children. There is a tiny bit of textual support and it also creates plenty of awesome parallels between Jaime and Tyrion (both were despised by their father and ended up killing him for which they are vilified). It also makes Cersei's obsession with being like the Targaryens and her slow spiral into paranoia and cruelty already echo Aerys' downfall.

Of course, neither theory is remotely likely. We already have secret Targaryens coming out of the woodwork.
T: ... through an emergency induction port.
S: That's a straw, Tali.
T: Emerrrgency induction port.

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Adacore
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Adacore » Wed May 18, 2016 11:01 pm UTC

More on the theories various:
Spoiler:
I agree, Jaime and Cersei make much more sense as Aerys' children, if any of them are. That would lend significantly more depth to the characters (including Tyrion and Tywin) than the Tyrion version.

I think the "excess of secret Targaryens" issue isn't really a problem, if I understand the way GRRM writes. He likes the concept of having multiple threads that all parallel each other, or all lead to the same place. The fact that Dany was strongly heralded as the last of the Targaryens, and then was revealed not to be indicates to me that there are likely several remaining.


EDIT: Additional thoughts on Season 6, Episode 4:
Spoiler:
So it seems pretty clear to me that a large part of the reason that Littlefinger's plot feels so poorly developed of late is because Sansa is still meant to be with him. She would presumably reunite with Jon when the armies of the Vale arrive in the north, if she hadn't been moved to Winterfell to fill in for Jeyne.

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Lazar
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Re: Game of Thrones | Song of Fire and Ice | Combination Thread

Postby Lazar » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:50 pm UTC

Exit the vampires' castle.


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