Heroes Reborn

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Chen
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Heroes Reborn

Postby Chen » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:24 pm UTC

Surprised there's no thread on this. It's kinda like watching a train wreck and such, but I can't help it.

This new season seems as inconsistent as the later seasons of the original series. Some of the storylines are somewhat interesting but I definitely found a bunch completely boring. They're also totally ripping off X-men this season and it's only been 3 episodes.

Anyways, has anyone else been watching this?

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Whizbang
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Re: Heroes Reborn

Postby Whizbang » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:38 pm UTC

I watched the pilot and plan on watching the rest, even if it gets bad/worse. I am hopeful that the first few episodes, like many series, are just the first toddling steps and things will get better as the season goes on.

I didn't re-watch the original series to refresh my memory and I was shocked at how much it assumed I would remember.

Also, Suresh as a terrorist? And what's up with the Odessa building getting blown up and then suddenly the world turns against Evos? It seemed like some people, at least, were accepting of them. Blowing up a bunch of them at a peaceful gathering seems like the sort of thing that would prompt people to defend and support them, not villainize them. So, people turn against Evos and yet also call the person who is credited for the bombing a terrorist. How does that work out? That part confused me.

Anyway, I like Mr. Bennet.

Chen
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Re: Heroes Reborn

Postby Chen » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:54 pm UTC

That bombing point is exactly what me and my friends mentioned after watching the first episodes. That said the bombing apparently destroyed the whole town, so that might be why people are "blaming" the Evos. Still it seemed like a hugely wrong reaction when the vast majority of the people who died WERE Evos.

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Totenkindly
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Re: Heroes Reborn

Postby Totenkindly » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:19 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Surprised there's no thread on this. It's kinda like watching a train wreck and such, but I can't help it.

This new season seems as inconsistent as the later seasons of the original series. Some of the storylines are somewhat interesting but I definitely found a bunch completely boring. They're also totally ripping off X-men this season and it's only been 3 episodes.

Anyways, has anyone else been watching this?


I was a fan of the original series but pretty shared the conventional wisdom: Season 1 = great, Season 2 = WTH?!, Season 3 = "I want to trust, but please don't hurt me again", Season 4 = unsure.

So I was guardedly excited about the revisit now a few years later, but after watching the pilot (2 episodes combined) plus episode 3 (2nd aired), I was left feeling kind of "meh" all over again. It's disappointing. I think the most recent episode at least had enough beats to it that was it somewhat interesting / things are happening; but I really hate lazy/dumb writing.

like:
Spoiler:
- tag-team spouses gun down an entire installation of guards/techs firing back at them without a problem, they have no problems with murder; then conveniently merely shoot the conspiracy dude at point blank range in the arm because the plot needed him alive

- thug tells boss that samurai girl is in the lobby and hands over the girl's samurai sword; instead of monitoring via camera, boss lady walks the whole way to the lobby where it's unsafe, WITH the sword in hand, just so girl's sidekick can overhear their conversation and see the sword in their possession, thus helping him decide what to do next

and so forth. Stacking the deck over and over is just uninteresting writing; good writing throws characters into situations where you have no idea how they'll deal, then somehow they get out.


I think some of the characters are interesting, and I like some of the actors, but I don't see that Kring learned anything from past mistakes. There are logic issues too, everywhere. This is just feeling like before: The show I badly want to love, that just repeatedly lobs pies in my eyes.

rmsgrey
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Re: Heroes Reborn

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:53 pm UTC

Totenkindly wrote:Stacking the deck over and over is just uninteresting writing; good writing throws characters into situations where you have no idea how they'll deal, then somehow they get out.


I take it you're a fan of the 60s Batman series then? Lots of Batman getting into a situation where you have no idea how he'll escape, then he pulls the perfect tool out of his utility belt and escapes...

In my book, good writing means the heroes' resources being known and the solution being foreseeable (in principle). The Chekhov's Gun principle, in other words - if the protagonists are going to rely on something to resolve the climax, then that something should be established before then. Of course, in serial drama, that can lead to the trap of one new power per episode - where every crisis has a unique solution that happens to have been introduced twenty minutes earlier, despite never having been used in earlier situations where they would have made sense and often being forgotten afterwards, even if they'd make sense in future situations.

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Totenkindly
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Re: Heroes Reborn

Postby Totenkindly » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:51 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Totenkindly wrote:Stacking the deck over and over is just uninteresting writing; good writing throws characters into situations where you have no idea how they'll deal, then somehow they get out.


I take it you're a fan of the 60s Batman series then? Lots of Batman getting into a situation where you have no idea how he'll escape, then he pulls the perfect tool out of his utility belt and escapes...


I suppose I phrased that badly, as that isn't at all what I meant.
In fact, I don't enjoy the old Batman TV show much at all, unless I'm in a campy mood.

In my book, good writing means the heroes' resources being known and the solution being foreseeable (in principle). The Chekhov's Gun principle, in other words - if the protagonists are going to rely on something to resolve the climax, then that something should be established before then. Of course, in serial drama, that can lead to the trap of one new power per episode - where every crisis has a unique solution that happens to have been introduced twenty minutes earlier, despite never having been used in earlier situations where they would have made sense and often being forgotten afterwards, even if they'd make sense in future situations.


I don't think our expectations are that far apart, despite my badly worded post.

When I look back at the solution the characters came up with, it should have been foreshadowed and more obvious as a viable pathway in hindsight.

however, as I'm viewing or reading through the first time, if it's too predictable, there will be no tension. So I should be thinking, "how would I deal with this? How will they get past this obstacle?" and racking my own brain. This engages the reader to work through the problem along with the protagonists, using the same tools they have.

This is why the "Oh, wait, I had the <Fix-It Tool> in my back pocket all the time," is a pretty terrible plot device, as it breaks faith in the narrative and disengages the audience from investing in the future.

Anyway, that's what I should have said the first time, as it was what I meant.

---

Just finished the most recent episode (#4).... it's better than the pilot, but still possesses the contrivances I don't much like. Maybe I'm just misreading the audience that Kring is aiming this show at, and I am not likely one of those. Probably one of the better moments:

Spoiler:
When Luke and Joanne's relational rift deepens, and there's some honest talk, and finally Luke comes clean, resulting in Joanne walking away rather than killing him. It was a more complex interaction than typical in the show.... they care about each other but have grown apart over a fundamental issue marked by tragedy, and where do they go from here? maybe nowhere...but I doubt it's the end for either, they're bound to run into each other again.

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Yablo
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Re: Heroes Reborn

Postby Yablo » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:41 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:I watched the pilot and plan on watching the rest, even if it gets bad/worse. I am hopeful that the first few episodes, like many series, are just the first toddling steps and things will get better as the season goes on.

I didn't re-watch the original series to refresh my memory and I was shocked at how much it assumed I would remember.

Also, Suresh as a terrorist? And what's up with the Odessa building getting blown up and then suddenly the world turns against Evos? It seemed like some people, at least, were accepting of them. Blowing up a bunch of them at a peaceful gathering seems like the sort of thing that would prompt people to defend and support them, not villainize them. So, people turn against Evos and yet also call the person who is credited for the bombing a terrorist. How does that work out? That part confused me.

Anyway, I like Mr. Bennet.

This is pretty much word for word my assessment.
If you like Call of Cthulhu and modern government conspiracy, check out my Delta Green thread.
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