X-Men: Another badguy

Rot your brains, then rot our boards

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

X-Men: Another badguy

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon May 30, 2016 1:19 pm UTC

Whelp, I felt this was pretty awful, and that X-Men movies have once again departed from DoFP to get back to their banal shittiness, with plot holes, overall bad acting, poorly done fight scenes, lots of cringy teens talking about bravery, etc, etc, etc. Honestly the only entertaining thing in the entire film was Quicksilver once again showing us how Omega Mutant powerful he evidently is for a funny scene that doesn't translate to Omega Mutant powerful later on in the film.

Feh.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue May 31, 2016 7:59 pm UTC

Yeahhh. Quicksilver was awesome. Magneto was fun. The rest? Mostly forgettable.

The overall villain was pretty much just cut and pasted together from boring villain tropes, barely more than a cardboard cutout. The horsemen, other than Magneto, also don't play much of a role. Sure, Psylocke looked cool, but, beyond that...not a ton of contribution to the story.

Why the baddie needs four horsemen isn't really explored or justified, and power jumps all over the chart for a few people, until the end becomes essentially handwavium MOAR POWER.

Xavier is still kind of a dick.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby rmsgrey » Tue May 31, 2016 11:42 pm UTC

I thought Storm got a pretty good arc, even if it was mostly shown rather than expressed as dialogue.

I also liked what they did with Jubilee - just having her there so fans could recognise her, but not expecting non-fans to learn another name and set of powers that are just going to be ignored for the rest of the movie...

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 8256
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby Zohar » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:53 pm UTC

That was such a terrible movie. Like seriously, so bad. If it didn't take itself so seriously, it could have been campy and fun, but with so much Pathos and Gravitas it was really difficult to take it seriously.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:06 pm UTC

When Magneto yelled 'IS THIS WHAT I AM?' I burst out laughing, but NO ONE ELSE IN THE THEATER did, which made my wife burst out laughing, then try to shush me, then we were both giggling, and other people were shushing us.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:11 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:When Magneto yelled 'IS THIS WHAT I AM?' I burst out laughing, but NO ONE ELSE IN THE THEATER did, which made my wife burst out laughing, then try to shush me, then we were both giggling, and other people were shushing us.


I almost did, but I noticed my friends were actually drawn into the movie and didn't want to ruin it for them. But gosh, I almost couldn't contain myself at that part.

Magneto's moral compass (ha ha, magnetism joke) is all over the place in this movie. And while Magneto usually does go on killing sprees to quench his own anger, I don't usually remember him pledging his allegiance to other entities. I guess I expect Magneto to be more of a "Stop calling me a child you insolent false god! GAHAHHAHAHAHAHH" sort of guy.

As opposed to a "I'll destroy the world for you" sort of person.

------------

Quicksilver was ridiculous, and that was fun. Instincts are telling me that Storm's character arc was terrible, but the more and more I think about it I actually can't think of a "mistake". Storm's arc is just so... devoid... of any explanation, dialogue or clearly defined motivations. So its actually very possible to explain Storm's behavior (she sees mutants as a role model. Follows powerful mutant, finds another mutant that she wants to follow).

Just the whole "I'll work for Apocalypse". I mean, Mystique, I mean... I'll join the X-Men now.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:48 pm UTC

Yeah I felt that Magneto's whole arc was pretty sophomoric. I miss the great debates between him and Xavier which were basically absent in these movies. Storm was also pretty boring, considering she was one of the few mutants historically that's out using their super power to actually factually help people, not have teenage existential angst.

Also, in terms of omega mutant powers, I don't know how they managed to do it, but watching magneto tear the world apart somehow just felt meh. Maybe it was because he couldn't scrap metal blast Apocalypse or maybe it was because it all amounted to 30 ft tall I beams making an X. Feh. All around feh.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:01 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Instincts are telling me that Storm's character arc was terrible, but the more and more I think about it I actually can't think of a "mistake". Storm's arc is just so... devoid... of any explanation, dialogue or clearly defined motivations. So its actually very possible to explain Storm's behavior (she sees mutants as a role model. Follows powerful mutant, finds another mutant that she wants to follow).

Just the whole "I'll work for Apocalypse". I mean, Mystique, I mean... I'll join the X-Men now.


Storm's motivation was pretty much all there on the screen (in a bit of a "blink and you'll miss it" way but still, there) - she's a street-rat who hero-worships Mystique (has posters up in her lair and actually says Mystique's her hero at one point) who gets offered power and patronage by Apocalypse, so, lacking any reason not to join him, does so. Then in the big confrontation, she sees her personal hero defying her leader, and sees Apocalypse putting the lie to his pro-mutant rhetoric - he's not doing this to make a better world for mutants; he's doing this to make a better world for himself! - and re-evaluates her choice of side. Then, when Apocalypse is vulnerable, she sees a chance to officially switch sides without it being suicide, and helps finish him off. Finally, she's given the choice between getting to hang out around her personal hero, with 3 squares a day and her own bedroom, or going back to her old life on the streets (once the streets get rebuilt) and, shockingly, she chooses the life where she doesn't have to constantly dodge the law just to survive...

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby KnightExemplar » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:51 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Instincts are telling me that Storm's character arc was terrible, but the more and more I think about it I actually can't think of a "mistake". Storm's arc is just so... devoid... of any explanation, dialogue or clearly defined motivations. So its actually very possible to explain Storm's behavior (she sees mutants as a role model. Follows powerful mutant, finds another mutant that she wants to follow).

Just the whole "I'll work for Apocalypse". I mean, Mystique, I mean... I'll join the X-Men now.


Storm's motivation was pretty much all there on the screen (in a bit of a "blink and you'll miss it" way but still, there) - she's a street-rat who hero-worships Mystique (has posters up in her lair and actually says Mystique's her hero at one point) who gets offered power and patronage by Apocalypse, so, lacking any reason not to join him, does so. Then in the big confrontation, she sees her personal hero defying her leader, and sees Apocalypse putting the lie to his pro-mutant rhetoric - he's not doing this to make a better world for mutants; he's doing this to make a better world for himself! - and re-evaluates her choice of side. Then, when Apocalypse is vulnerable, she sees a chance to officially switch sides without it being suicide, and helps finish him off. Finally, she's given the choice between getting to hang out around her personal hero, with 3 squares a day and her own bedroom, or going back to her old life on the streets (once the streets get rebuilt) and, shockingly, she chooses the life where she doesn't have to constantly dodge the law just to survive...


Ermm.... yeah. Except its fucking Storm.

The first "Black" superheroine. A leader of the X-Men occasionally. She's supposed to have very strong sense of justice, good and bad and morality. She's an icon of the X-Men and was done completely wrong in this movie. Almost to the levels of "Deadpool" wrong from X-Men Origins.

For her to be flippity-floppity and working for evil-bad-guy to help destroy the world and murder innocents casually is completely unlike her.

I do realize that Storm was a street-rat / thief in her origin story. But she wasn't a casual murderer who would actively help bring about the Apocalypse. Storm wouldn't have joined Apocalypse after the first scene: where three men were murdered for virtually no reason by Sand Powers.

-----------------

As I noted earlier: Storm's arc had almost no dialogue of any kind. So of course our minds are able to wander and fill the gaps with our own imagination for her motivations. From a movie perspective, her personality could have been anything we wanted, which is why I'm saying: There's very few mistakes, because there's not enough story or dialogue in the film to even leave room for a mistake.

Its a relatively shallow cop-out. Show things on the screen and then let the audience figure it out. Keep things ambiguous so that the audience sees what they want.

-------------

Speaking of casual murder: the fact that Jean Grey / Cyclops was willing to work with Wolverine after killing dozens (maybe hundreds) of soldiers was also wtf. I dunno if the directors thought that high-body counts was what we liked in Deadpool. But the X-Men are supposed to be forces of good. I'd frankly prefer the cheesy "knockout" stuff that they pull on network television... at least while the "good guys" are on board.

The wanton death-and-destruction was fine for Apocalypse. He's a bad guy. Magneto... it would have been fine if it were filmed better. Like, more philosophically somehow. There's a great story about Cao Cao (a king of China during the three kingdoms era), where Cao Cao commits evils because "Its better for me to wrong the world, than for the world to wrong me". Or maybe something Machiavellian: "Its better to be feared than to be loved". THEN have Magneto go on a killing spree, while the audience grapples with the philosophical question.

IE: Magneto comes home, and tells his family that he's killed everyone in the town to protect them. Then his family leaves him (only to be killed by incoming soldiers). And in that bout of depression, he joins Apocalypse. That would have been a far more Magneto move. Maybe it'd have been harder to connect with Magneto as a good guy in that regards... but he also started to blow up the world so... if they were going to go with the path of "Apocalypse brought about with Magneto's mutant powers", they might as well should have made him full-tilt evil so that we'd grapple with some philosophy or something.

Anyway, the casual murders really, really weren't working for me. Its not like the X-Men to leave a high-body count where they go.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

rmsgrey
Posts: 3451
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:35 pm UTC

Re: X-Men: Another badguy

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:32 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Anyway, the casual murders really, really weren't working for me. Its not like the X-Men to leave a high-body count where they go.


I'm going to bring in the argument that Man of Steel apologists keep coming back to: they're not X-Men yet - these aren't the well-trained, seasoned warriors, confident in their ability to stop the bad guys without incidental casualties; they're a bunch of frightened teenagers, getting to cut loose with their powers for the first time ever ("I can't control [my powers]" "Then don't") and fighting back against better trained, better equipped, better prepared, grown up enemies who ambushed them at the ruins of their safe haven in the wake of their mentor being kidnapped. So, yeah, they unleash Wolverine (without knowing what he was going to do) and then Jean tries to help him recover from his berserk state (which probably saves lives in the long run).

For Magneto and Storm, there's also the question of Apocalypse's influence - at the least, he's superficially persuasive (when he's bothering to try) and may have a specific power backing that up (or it may be a side-effect of his power-enhancing abilities). At worst, he catches Magneto on his worst day ever, and pitches him an idea that's always been close to Magneto's heart - that mutants are destined to rule, and there will be a war before that can happen unless mutants can strike first and hard enough to preempt it.


Return to “Movies and TV Shows”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests