Wander Woman

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Wander Woman

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:40 pm UTC

It's out next summer and here's the first trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lGoQhFb4NM
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:47 pm UTC

Heh, I dig it. Curious to see more.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:11 am UTC

Wait, I'm confused. Because I thought we were gonna get a Black Widow movie, but not a Wonder Woman movie.

Now it looks like the opposite is true, and I have to wonder when and how it was I slipped into this alternate dimension, and what other differences there are between this one and my original reality.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:48 pm UTC

Everything here is normal, from the orange sky, to the goatees we all wear.

Shush now, and enjoy more super serious comic book movies from DC that everyone loves. After all, everyone knows that Marvel could never have done a period war movie about a super soldier killing germans with a shield.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Zohar » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:55 pm UTC

I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here...

For once the trailer doesn't look like it's going to be a deathly serious movie, and in fact it actually looks somewhat interesting.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:18 pm UTC

Mostly sarcasm and silliness.

It seems better than average for DC, but that's a low bar. And I'm twitchy on account of the current track record. Not sure if it'll genuinely be better, or if the humor will be yet another aping of Marvel without really getting what makes it tick. Could go either way.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Zohar » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:30 pm UTC

Yeah I agree. Hopefully it's not terrible. I didn't even bother seeing Batman Vs Superman.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:34 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Yeah I agree. Hopefully it's not terrible. I didn't even bother seeing Batman Vs Superman.


Imagine Captain America: Civil War, but done badly, and you'll probably be reasonably close.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Zohar » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:53 pm UTC

I wasn't a huge fan of Civil War. I mean, it was fine, but not as AWESOME and AMAZING as I felt people said it was.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:52 pm UTC

This was several layers worse.

They literally stop the movie to show you email attachments promoting Justice League. That, and they don't have enough confidence in their matchup, so half the movie is literally them telling you how awesome it is for Batman and Superman to fight. In case, yknow, buying the ticket wasn't enough of a clue that you wanted to see it.

Lex Luthor was a discount Joker.

Just....so, so bad.

WW in it was awesome during the brief moments she was on screen, but she says basically nothing. Which seems to be at least slightly better in this movie. I mean, it has to be right? They wouldn't really make a movie about Wonder Woman in which she mostly doesn't actually say anything. They better not.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Zohar » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:57 pm UTC

I should hope so. Gal Gadot has a pretty heavy Israeli accent, but I think they play play with it.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Weeks » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:26 pm UTC

I play play too sometimes, but I also didn't bother to watch BvS. I'd rather watch another Nolan movie.

I might watch this one though, so I'm skipping the trailer for (hopefully) the best first-hand experience.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:01 am UTC

Anything with Snyder in it is a strict "hell no" to me. And Snyder contributed (albeit in a far reduced role) here, unfortunately.

I'm also so over these goddamn WWI/WWII movies, can we please fucking have some other historical events than these two covered, please?There have been tons of deadly wars with some even having similar body counts, yet it's always the fucking Germans.

This movie will probably see the Warcraft treatment from me. I'll wait for the user (not critic) reviews in Rotten Tomatoes (the popcorn score).

If it turns out to be the pool of mediocirty I expected with Warcraft and my suspicions are confirmed (as they were with Warcraft), I'll just wait till it's On Demand with xfinity for like $3-4 a rent.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:36 pm UTC

Would you prefer another movie set in Sparta instead? I'm joking, I understand what you're saying. There's a good reason they keep making movies about those wars - they're relatively fresh in people's minds, everyone has heard of them, there are clear good/bad guys - it's easy to use the weight of history for emotional impact.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:56 am UTC

Zohar wrote:Would you prefer another movie set in Sparta instead? I'm joking, I understand what you're saying. There's a good reason they keep making movies about those wars - they're relatively fresh in people's minds, everyone has heard of them, there are clear good/bad guys - it's easy to use the weight of history for emotional impact.



Especially funny when that dumbass Snyder put in a line where the Spartans mocked Athenians as boy fuckers when it was actually the Spartans who widely engaged in pederasty while the Athenians did so rather rarely and some even frowned on it.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of painting Athenians as fluttering ponces while Spartans are some Texan action hero jerkoff fantasy material.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby maybeagnostic » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:06 pm UTC

I haven't seen a DC film since the terrible Man of Steel (were there any except for BvS?) but this trailer looks better than anything else of theirs apart from Suicide Squad. It has some color instead of being drab brown-grey, Wonder Woman isn't brooding or trying to speak in a gravelly voice and the action scenes are ripping off Captain America, the only Marvel hero that actually gets interesting fight scenes. The actual story implied by the trailer seems pretty abysmal though- Wonder Woman falls in love with literally the first man she ever sees who is a blond blue-eyed war veteran and goes off to fight in his war because she realized Nazis are bad. Maybe the trailer made it seem more insipid than it actually is.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby sardia » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:58 am UTC

Nazis don't exist yet, it's WWI.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby maybeagnostic » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:28 am UTC

Shows how carefully I watched the trailer, I guess :D
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Diadem » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:05 am UTC

The first world war is a strange conflict to drag your superhero into, unless they are supposed to be morally flawed and ambiguous.

There weren't really and good sides in that war. The entire war was started for stupid, senseless reasons, and all sides committed atrocities on a massive scale.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Zohar » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:48 pm UTC

Well yeah, but one of the sides was Germany, so we know they must have been bad.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:46 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Would you prefer another movie set in Sparta instead? I'm joking, I understand what you're saying. There's a good reason they keep making movies about those wars - they're relatively fresh in people's minds, everyone has heard of them, there are clear good/bad guys - it's easy to use the weight of history for emotional impact.


The only movie set in WW1 I've actually watched "A Little Princess". Its actually... very rare to see a WW1 movie IMO.

WW1 wasn't about "good guys vs bad guys", it was about new weapons of war, alliances and the mentality of "The Great Game" and Social Darwinism led people to war.

The invention of Tanks, Gatling Guns, Trench Warfare, long-range Artillery, Explosives, Mustard Gas and landmines led to widespread Shell Shock. Note that the Radio wasn't being significantly used for military purposes quite yet, so soldiers were often lost, disorganized, and confused on the battlefield. WW1 was when the world learned that War is not honorable... not anymore anyway. The weapons of modern war are too deadly and the injuries are lifelong. Especially those nasty chemical weapons.

Diadem wrote:The first world war is a strange conflict to drag your superhero into, unless they are supposed to be morally flawed and ambiguous.


Wonder Woman's backstory is that she's the Diplomat of the Amazons. The Amazons are the "proud female Warriors" of Ancient Greece. In their thousands of years of isolation, they've been protected by the ancient Greek Gods. Ares and Athena (both are Gods of War) are typically the gods that the Amazons worship, and Wonder Woman is their hand-chosen heroine. (Aphrodite may have made Wonder Woman out of mud and clay IIRC)

Frankly, Wonder Woman appearing during WW1 makes lots of damn sense. She will enter the world of men and see senseless bloodshed. WW1 was the death of "honorable combat" and the start of the modern thinking of "War is bad". This greatly contrasts with Wonder Woman's upbringing as a noble warrior. This would setup conflict between Wonder Woman and her gods Ares and Athena... as Wonder Woman no longer considers war honorable or glorious.

Or, they could go the ambassador / diplomat route. Wonder Woman's gods (ie: Ares and Athena) may see Wonder Woman's report of WW1 and they may give up on humanity. Wonder Woman toughs it out and discovers some greater purpose. This is a relatively common Wonder Woman trope, and WW1 is the ideal war to send the message "The Gods have literally abandoned us".

------------

Considering that Wonder Woman's original backstory is WW2 (oh no! Evil has occurred. Wonder Woman must save us!) and that story has already been "taken" by Capt. Steve Rodgers... WW1 makes for a far more interesting choice. Its the kind of backstory manipulation I fully approve 100%. Whether or not Snyder executes it well is another question however.

Frankly, WW1 has a lot more potential to serve as a foil to Wonder Woman's honorable and god-touched upbringing.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:57 pm UTC

Worth noting that it's not directed by Snyder, though he does have writing/producer credits.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:19 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:The only movie set in WW1 I've actually watched "A Little Princess". Its actually... very rare to see a WW1 movie IMO.
There are plenty of them out there.
There's quite a few.

A serious but recent one is:
Spoiler:
Image

A classic funny one is:
Spoiler:
Image

But I would also like to suggest, for novelty:
Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby jaap » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:27 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:The only movie set in WW1 I've actually watched "A Little Princess". Its actually... very rare to see a WW1 movie IMO.
There are plenty of them out there.
There's quite a few.

A serious but recent one is:
Spoiler:
Image

A classic funny one is:
Spoiler:
Image

But I would also like to suggest, for novelty:
Spoiler:
Image

And if you like a good atmospheric horror film set in WW1, you may want to see Deathwatch.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:29 pm UTC

I had that prepped as well! Still open two tabs to the left, but I cut it down to three and excised that and another...

(E: The other being https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh!_What_a_Lovely_War - where the closing shots have to be seen to be believed.)

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby DavidSh » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:27 pm UTC

Lawrence of Arabia and The African Queen are both WWI movies, although that may not be obvious to everybody. And there must be a slew of WWI aviation movies, going as far back as the 1927 Wings.

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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby maybeagnostic » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:22 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Frankly, WW1 has a lot more potential to serve as a foil to Wonder Woman's honorable and god-touched upbringing.

You're probably right and those sound like some really good themes to explore but nothing in the trailer or the DC movies so far gives me the impression they intend to take anything so seriously or care about telling an interesting and nuanced story.
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Re: Wonder Woman

Postby charliepanayi » Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:34 pm UTC

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Re: Wander Woman

Postby charliepanayi » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:14 pm UTC

Bump - out tomorrow!
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Angua » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:20 pm UTC

I saw it today. Will post thoughts once night shift over.
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Bane Harper » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:25 am UTC

Will watch tonight, expectation are high with gal gadot

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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Angua » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:21 pm UTC

So, I enjoyed it. My partner (who actually liked MoS and didn't mind BvS too much) thought it was better than BvS, but felt it was too predictable to be that great. I'm glad that the final battle scene was pretty creative. Spoilers for spoilery musings:
Spoiler:
1) It super bugged me that when the Germans get to Themiscyra there is a cruiser behind the dinghies that then vanishes never to be seen again. Ball dropped on the continuity of the scene there.

2) Not sure how I feel about Wonder Woman being an actual God in the context of MoS and BvS and Suicide Squad all worrying about how you kill a "god". I feel like they are developing an obsession with this idea, and either way, we now know the answer. Though maybe Ares, Zeus and the Amazons are all just ancient aliens anyways (I doubt they are going to take that angle).

3) What are the Amazonians doing with their lives? They speak all these languages to be a bridge for humanity and then just flake and hide at home. Kind of disappointing imo. Obviously Diana thought so too.

4) The fact that Sir Patrick is Ares was pretty obvious the minute he gave them money for their mission and had the secretary work from his office.

5) I loved Diana's outfit in London. Also thought it was quite funny how Steve kept calling her distracting (which she was for him), also it highlights one of the reasons why women are discriminated against (remember that kerfufle with the guy who said that women shouldn't be in labs?).
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Zohar » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:07 pm UTC

I'm definitely into watching it, but my friends are not, at least so far. Reviews seem to say "it's pretty decent, better than some Marvel movies".
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:06 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I'm definitely into watching it, but my friends are not, at least so far. Reviews seem to say "it's pretty decent, better than some Marvel movies".


Which is actually high praise for DC movies, since the only great DC movie was The Dark Knight.

EDIT: Add V for Vendetta to that list. Apparently that's DC.

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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:18 pm UTC

AC movies are variable.

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Re: Wander Woman

Postby pseudoidiot » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:24 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Spoilers for spoilery musings:
Spoiler:
1) It super bugged me that when the Germans get to Themiscyra there is a cruiser behind the dinghies that then vanishes never to be seen again. Ball dropped on the continuity of the scene there.
For your first point:
Spoiler:
After the dinghies cross over at one point the camera cuts back to them and you can see the cruiser behind them listing badly to one side and looks like it's about to go under. There's no explanation of why. My assumption was it probably hit something underwater that they couldn't detect from the other side of the barrier.

Granted I wouldn't assume all the sailors on board to drown, you'd think some would get away, but we don't see any survivors other than Chris Pine. It's entirely possible the Amazons just mopped up any survivors that came ashore after that.

Either way it definitely could have been handled better.
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Angua » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:59 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Ah, ok, I missed the cruiser tilting to the side.
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

I really enjoyed it.

Spoiler:
I noticed the cruiser listing but still thought it came a bit out of nowhere.

My biggest issue was the final battle between Diana and Ares; it felt a bit overblown and I didn't really feel invested in it somehow? Like it just seemed like the same meaninglessly-casual-destruction-fest that DC movies have suffered from. I still felt the rest of the film carried it though.

My other minor quibble was that the town of Veld clearly has a Flemish name and the woman who first pointed them there was speaking Flemish but then, once they got there, all the people spoke and all the signs were written in French. Like, I understand they didn't want to get a whole town's worth of Flemish-speaking extras, but in that case why have a Flemish town and a Flemish woman in the first place? Just seemed kinda weird
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:30 pm UTC

Angua wrote:So, I enjoyed it.
Same!
Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
4) The fact that Sir Patrick is Ares was pretty obvious the minute he gave them money for their mission and had the secretary work from his office.
Spoiler:
...Really? At that point I was personally hoping there was no Ares and she'd just end the war on a bittersweet note (being lied to, realizing evil is in everyone, but there's hope, etc.) but maybe I was giving too much credit to the movie
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Re: Wander Woman

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:38 am UTC

Re: Week's spoiler
Spoiler:
Yeah, I was also hoping that Ares didn't exist, or if he did she'd find him as ... some random asshole in a town who was pulling a Destruction of the Endless ("I haven't started a war in 500 years - this is all humans") but.... having seen the Lego set based on the movie, I also knew that wasn't going to happen.


General, problematic, spoilery stuff

Spoiler:
There's this article. Now, I can't say that I am in agreement with it, but I also can't say it doesn't have points to make either. Yes, the author appears to admittedly be comic ignorant, sure, and yes - attractive people are attractive and not commenting on it seems worse to me somehow than commenting on it, as it reinforces the idea of "Hollywood Ugly" to a certain extent - where an attractive person is treated as hideous because they're a 7 on a 10 point scale, or as could have been in this case, treated as of average attractiveness when they're not at all. In this film's case, Diana wasn't... but then, Steve kinda was?

The article also mentions the idea of Diana being an innocent, unable to completely consent to a sexual encounter and I don't quite agree with that (or the comment about Diana not understanding why Steve wouldn't sleep beside her - she's aware of fucking, she's not planning on fucking Steve, she doesn't connect the sharing body heat while sleeping to fucking because her cultural background doesn't connect the two, but Steve's does. The comment in the article makes it sound like she's unaware of fucking even though it goes on to describe part of the conversation that was essentially Diana saying "I know all about fucking, at least in theory") but I do agree that her background and Steve's background make for a situation that Steve should have politely excused himself from, without a more explicit "Hey Steve, I don't know what you're hangup is but where I'm from we fuck when we feel like it so if you're down, get in here and if you're not down.... we can play chess?" Only, y'know, better written, consistent with the script's tone and not a Blazing Saddles reference.

I do like the No Man's Land scene, and apparently the producers wanted to cut it as they felt Diana would just go after Ares, and the director had to explain that it's the fucking point of the character to give a shit about civilians and want to protect and defend them first, get the big bad second.

.... but it's also kinda cut by the scene where she's talking to Chief, he mentions how his people have been fucked by Steve's people - a true statement, especially in 191X (8 I presume) and she's sympathetic and.... then does nothing with the information. No conversation with Steve, no attempt at justification or apology on his part, no further explanation from Chief, nothing.

I really want to see the cut scenes for this film.

And the last fight is totally a Snyder thing. Has to be.


Apparently they gave the guy who played Chief more or less free control of his costume (provided the non-Native bits were periodish accurate, I assume) which he found unusual and welcome. Because it is unusual - usually costuming does all that and usually fucks it up but no one outside some Native Americans and scholars notice.

Overall it's a good film, and far better than anything else the "DC Movieverse trying to do what Iron Man/Hulk/Avengers did" has done so far in film (MoS, BvS, Suicide Squad). And it more or less gets the character right - she's not a bloodthirsty warmonger bodyslamming her way through people, she's also not a "Let's talk out your feelings" passive actor, she punches what needs punching and doesn't what doesn't.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.


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