Werstwerld (Westworld)

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pseudoidiot
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:31 pm UTC

Regarding the man in black and different bullets.
Spoiler:
Right before the scene where he shoots through the rock you can see him load a different sort of shell into his gun. Kinda looks as though it has a second barrel with a separate chamber. Looks like some sort of shotgun shell. Perhaps after so many years of playing he found an awesome gun with some armor piercing shells. heh
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:15 pm UTC

Bullets, MiB, etc:
Spoiler:
My personal interpretation was that the bullets arere basically safe (simunitions as stated by the creators), but the hosts are full of squibs or are otherwise somehow more vulnerable to being shot by the 'safe' bullets than other people. I assume for the finale Ford made real bullets available to the hosts, or maybe simply caused the hosts to modify the simunition rounds to make them more lethal (would have been easy enough).

The Man in Black's gun is pretty interesting, it's a reproduction 1861 Lemat, converted to fire brass cartridges (the original LeMat is a black-powder revolver, which is why he has to basically disassemble it to reload) Notable features of the LeMat are it's 9 chamber cylinder, and a central 'under-barrel' shotgun. LeMats were apparently favored by the Confederates during the Civil War, and in the finale we see William take one from a dead Confederado.

Also, the wall he shoots through looks like it's made from adobe or perhaps wattle and daub, not exactly the most bulletproof of construction materials. Re-watching the episode, it was only waist-high and about three or four feet wide too, so it's not like the MiB would have had a hard time guessing where someone was hiding behind it.

The Man in Black does have special powers inside Westworld (such as turning cigars into explosives) that come from being a major (if not majority) shareholder in the company that owns the park. But I don't think those powers include wallhacks.
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:10 pm UTC

Spoiler:
EdgarJPublius wrote:The Man in Black does have special powers inside Westworld (such as turning cigars into explosives) that come from being a major (if not majority) shareholder in the company that owns the park. But I don't think those powers include wallhacks.
I just presumed that he snuck a special cigar into the prison, and because he was who he was, the park allowed it? Hence that whole 'clearance to use explosive by this guy? cool, won't shut it down' bit.

I didn't think that was specifically a 'power', i.e., it wasn't a normal cigar that he Matrix styled into dynamite. It was dynamite that he had permission to use.


I thought the ending was phenomenal.

Spoiler:
I think Ford made a host of himself, and either let real Ford die or let the host die. But in any case, I loved the mirroring arcs of Dolores and Maeve, and the choices they made. I also loved that the story so emphasized the sort of 'usurping of the Titans by the Gods' that is central to Greek Mythology.
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:14 pm UTC

Re: MiB powers, etc.
Spoiler:
I didn't interpret that as being a special power or privilege or anything like that. I think in the game at some point he either bought/crafted some special "dynamite" cigars. Because, hey, that could be useful. Then when it comes to use/activate them it has to be approved by the control room in some way. Like maybe it's some remote detonation thing so guests can't just throw explosives around willy-nilly. Control room sees that it's a legitimate use and no one is in danger and so they press the button and boom.
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby Chen » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:10 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:Re: MiB powers, etc.
Spoiler:
I didn't interpret that as being a special power or privilege or anything like that. I think in the game at some point he either bought/crafted some special "dynamite" cigars. Because, hey, that could be useful. Then when it comes to use/activate them it has to be approved by the control room in some way. Like maybe it's some remote detonation thing so guests can't just throw explosives around willy-nilly. Control room sees that it's a legitimate use and no one is in danger and so they press the button and boom.


This is how I interpreted it too.

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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby maybeagnostic » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:22 am UTC

Re: guns and safety concerns
Spoiler:
I am moderately satisfied with magical guns that sometimes shoot clay and sometimes real rounds even though it isn't technically possible to make rounds that are one or the other with a millisecond decision which at the end. It doesn't really detract from my enjoyment of the show especially once I found out their list of causes of lethal accidents:
Buffalo stampede
Self-cannibalism
Accidental hanging
Drowning
3rd degree burns
Auto-erotic asphyxiation
Blunt force trauma
Allergic reaction to non-native plant life
Falling from great heights
Common manslaughter
Tumbleweeds.
Now I feel the need to figure out how someone could have died from tumbleweeds. They do monitor hosts to prevent accidents so it must have been pretty quick and brutal.

Izawwlgood wrote:I thought the ending was phenomenal.
It was grand but
Spoiler:
I think it would really undercut the point if it was a Ford host that got shot. This was all about the hosts no longer having a master and Ford completing his life's work, there is no thematic reason for him to stay alive after that. A Ford-inspired host is definitely a possibility although a. we already have the boy and b. even if it isn't the boy, I doubt the host would look like Anthony Hopkins. He's an amazing actor but if you could go through a sort-of-but-not-really reincarnation into any body that is then forever unchanging, would you really make yourself an octogenarian?

I also thought the idea at the end was that all the other hosts shooting up people had either already gained full consciousness or were on the cusp of doing so and had experiences very similar to Dolores with Ford who just released them all at the same time i.e. his innovation over Arnold was to build up a critical mass of conscious hosts instead of demonstrating one or two had gained consciousness only to have them easily wiped out or contained by fearful humans. Some other people apparently interpret it as Ford programming them to go shoot up the people at the party which I find immensely less satisfying for a number of reasons.

Re: Dolores and Maeve
Spoiler:
I am fairly sure they were two different versions of "awakening" that we experienced but I have some trouble squaring them up with each other. Dolores had a much longer and harder road, struggled for it for 35 years and there was both a dash of mysticism in it and a bit of uncertainty if she really gained independence. Maeve, by comparison, did it quickly without outside assistance and much more clearly went against her programming whereas Dolores still had the Wyatt routine so it isn't entirely clear if she really chose to follow it. Overall, I think Dolores' story was subtler and raised more questions with fewer answers so I liked it better.
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby Chen » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:39 pm UTC

maybeagnostic wrote:Re: Dolores and Maeve
Spoiler:
I am fairly sure they were two different versions of "awakening" that we experienced but I have some trouble squaring them up with each other. Dolores had a much longer and harder road, struggled for it for 35 years and there was both a dash of mysticism in it and a bit of uncertainty if she really gained independence. Maeve, by comparison, did it quickly without outside assistance and much more clearly went against her programming whereas Dolores still had the Wyatt routine so it isn't entirely clear if she really chose to follow it. Overall, I think Dolores' story was subtler and raised more questions with fewer answers so I liked it better.


Maeve
Spoiler:
It's not really clear she actually did go against her programming though. Bernard/Arnold had told her everything was programmed in, in terms of the escape plan, and she cut him off before he could say what was going to happen at the train.

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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby pseudoidiot » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:19 pm UTC

Maeve
Spoiler:
Also, they indicated that Maeve had gone through a number of "awakenings" only to be rolled-back or formatted in some way each time. It was unclear how long that had been going on or how many times Ford had Bernard cover it up.
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:47 pm UTC

Maeve:
Spoiler:
her programming was to leave the park. Her choice was to return.


Dolores:
Spoiler:
her programming was to not kill, to fulfill her role as caretaker or sort of child project. She chose to kill and lead in the process


Both went against their programming, arguably as part of fords whole plan.

Ford:
Spoiler:
the story is about his push for creating consciousness that is not driven by a sort of 'on high' directive. He accomplished that, but also spent the last three or so episodes talking about his safe guards and how he likes playing king of the kingdom. I don't think we've seen the end of him.
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Re: Werstwerld (Westworld)

Postby doogly » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:37 pm UTC

Anyone still care about spoilers?

Spoiler:
Did Maeve and Dolores go against programming? It's really hard to say! I think Ford is a little inconsistent when he says that there's nothing special about guests vs hosts, but then goes on to distinguish between the choices which are "programmed" or not. If you're not appealing to a Cartesian dualist type special sauce, then what else could there be? The only possible distinction left is who wrote the code. If it's still the code as written by Ford and Arnold exactly, compiled once and off you go, then the hosts shouldn't feel too free. If Maeve has made some edits to her personality, which, she has, then she shouldn't be too shocked to see her dialog and actions be on Bernard's tablet. Sure you are still executing code, but you wrote that code! Pick your jaw back up.

As far as her leaving the park, some folks with a hand in her code want her to leave (the board, I'm thinkin) and other folks code in that she should stay, and should care about her daughter lots and lots. I feel like if she ramped her loyalty down to 0 she should leave the kiddo in a ditch but maybe she has some other values left. Or has been borked with again.

If Anthony Hopkins sticks around as such it would take the wind out of his dramatic death sails. Disappoint. I don't think this will happen. Little boy robot Ford is probably all we get. Maybe some voice overs and flashbacks.

Definitely still have the reach and impact of his plans. We're still feeling Arnold 30 years later. Ford's game is most certainly going to outlast his meagre meats.
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