Fantastic Breasts and Where to Find Them

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ConMan
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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby ConMan » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:11 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Methods and Madness:
Spoiler:
The whole execution thing was wonky, too. Sure, sure, grindlewald's evil. The auror's executing them are apparently not, yes? It's like...what, two people? And it's needlessly convoluted. I don't get what any of that scene was about.

Spoiler:
I think the idea is that while, say, the Killing Curse is fast, it also requires actual killing intent behind it, whereas the people performing the execution in MACUSA are more "doing a terrible but apparently necessary job". Not to mention it's probably painful and undoubtedly has other issues. So instead, they use a magical equivalent of execution by injection - they pull out a bunch of happy memories, and use that to create a bewitching illusion in the pool-o'-death, so the victim technically kills themselves. So it would be more like executing someone by giving them a self-administered heroin drip, or something.

And there may have been some avoidance of due process resulting from the fact that Greaves/Grindelwald realised that leaving Newt alive would be incredibly dangerous for his plans. After all, he had just played his hand to some extent by insinuating that the Obscurus might have a purpose to incite enmity between wizards and No-Majs, i.e. his plan in its entirety.


On the subject of plot holes:
Spoiler:
What was the point of Gnarlack (the gangster goblin) saying Greaves' past was one that was dangerous to look into? Was he the only one in the city to know the truth? Or is there some dark part of the real Greaves' background that was otherwise removed from the film?
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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:20 am UTC

Spoiler:
I mean, yeah, but there's roughly a billion other ways to kill someone in the Harry Potter universe, yes? I mean, that's what all those various light duels that aren't any shade of green are, presumably? I mean, leaving aside mundane execution methods entirely.

It just seems really odd that the aurors don't even blink at the ridiculously guilty looking "execute them immediately" thing, but then use some bond-style death trap. I don't think the aurors are supposed to be portrayed as bad? But they don't come across as terribly nice...

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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby ConMan » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:37 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Spoiler:
I mean, yeah, but there's roughly a billion other ways to kill someone in the Harry Potter universe, yes? I mean, that's what all those various light duels that aren't any shade of green are, presumably? I mean, leaving aside mundane execution methods entirely.

It just seems really odd that the aurors don't even blink at the ridiculously guilty looking "execute them immediately" thing, but then use some bond-style death trap. I don't think the aurors are supposed to be portrayed as bad? But they don't come across as terribly nice...

Spoiler:
I'm quite convinced it's a commentary on the use of "humane" execution methods in areas of the US, and on the fact that the people who administer said methods presumably don't think of themselves as bad people. The actual ethics of such practices being a topic of discussion best left considerably distant from the discussion of the film, of course.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:42 am UTC

I think there are a few different instances of "how folks outside the US see the US", maybe?

Definitely a few bits that came across as some kind of allegory. None of which were terribly subtle, I think.

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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:41 am UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:None of which were terribly subtle, I think.
That's, like, 90% of Harry Potter stuff, really.
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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:11 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Spoiler:
I mean, yeah, but there's roughly a billion other ways to kill someone in the Harry Potter universe, yes? I mean, that's what all those various light duels that aren't any shade of green are, presumably? I mean, leaving aside mundane execution methods entirely.

It just seems really odd that the aurors don't even blink at the ridiculously guilty looking "execute them immediately" thing, but then use some bond-style death trap. I don't think the aurors are supposed to be portrayed as bad? But they don't come across as terribly nice...


My understanding is that most magical duels in the HP world are about incapacitation rather than killing - trip someone up, immobilise them, or make them drop their wand, and you can pretty much do what you want to them, including obliviation to forget whatever you were fighting about...

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Re: Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Postby plytho » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:06 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Never mind the ethics of obliviation, my main problem with the film was that it just wasn't good story-telling. For example, we know the protagonist likes beasties, but are we ever given a clue as to why? Maybe a childhood scene of him playing with the beasties, for example? No, it's just his Thing, and we have to just accept it.


Why wouldn't you accept it? 'Here's a magical biologist/conservationist getting in trouble in New York' is an acceptible premise for me.

SlyReaper wrote:As a spectacle, it's a good movie. As a bit of world-building, it's a good movie. As a story, it's shite.


I mostly agree with this. The story is pretty weak. It didn't bother me too much because I wanted to see a bit more of the HP universe and that's what we got.

Some overthinking about the world:
Spoiler:
How did the immigration of witches and wizards work? There's obviously a similarity to our own history with the speakeasy and the mobster. So when the european withes and wizards arrived in america, what happened with native american witches and wizards? There's an african american witch president. How did that happen? Was there a parallel migration with the slave trade? That makes little sense and I can't imagine a muggleborn slave witch/wizard getting invited to a magical school and accepting non-interference with the muggle world.
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Re: Fantastic Breasts and Where to Find Them

Postby Liri » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:41 am UTC

Finally saw it at a second-run theater. It was a bit much, huh?
Spoiler:
The CGI went way off the rails with the Obscura thing. If I'd seen that 10+ years ago, I'd have been impressed to heck but it's definitely getting beat to death.

Daaaaang that execution was creepy!!!

They'd been referencing Grindewald too much for Colin Firth Farrell to not have been him.

All the plot issues with the movie aside, it was neat to see adult wizards being adults.

The main character witch looked just like my first girlfriend. It was nagging at me until the very end trying to remember who she reminded me of.
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Re: Fantastic Breasts and Where to Find Them

Postby Jorpho » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:10 pm UTC

I too just saw the film at a second-run theater. I found it a bit hard to follow at points; I hope that doesn't just mean that I'm getting old. It was definitely more cohesive than most of the other Harry Potter films, at least.

I took a look at the screenplay afterwards because I was thinking maybe I had missed something, but no – it really is that empty (and I feel sorry for anyone who plunked down funds for the hardcover of said screenplay). Grindelwald's last line wouldn't have made any more sense even if I had heard it correctly the first time. The whole thing with the Obscurus seems like a poorly-plotted excuse to have messy black swirly CG do expensive things. In fact, it's all a bit too uncomfortably reminiscent of the new Ghostbusters film, or possibly even Suicide Squad.

Still, it's the kind of thing where it looks like sufficient thought and hard work was invested in the process that the final product can't be too terrible.

ETA: Also the "we'll disperse the cure throughout New York City with a giant flashy thing" was done in MiB 2 and Spider-Man, and probably also TMNT (though I didn't see that one myself). A rather silly little plot device, really, especially since
Spoiler:
it was never at all suggested that either the thunderbird or the "cure" were supposed to work that way anyway.
Last edited by Jorpho on Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:50 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fantastic Breasts and Where to Find Them

Postby Weeks » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:13 pm UTC

This thread title though
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