Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Rot your brains, then rot our boards

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
natraj
Posts: 1639
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:13 pm UTC
Location: away from Omelas
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby natraj » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:19 am UTC

wow yeah. the idea that portraying same-gender romantic relationships somehow has to be inherently sexualized is pretty gross, honestly. media has looooooooooong portrayed heterosexual romances (sexualized or not) without people immediately going "Oh me yarm sex" just because people are in love.

also @zohar yeeeah the director's statement was an obnoxious copout. it made me pretty irritated. i read it after seeing the movie and was disgruntled.
You want to know the future, love? Then wait:
I'll answer your impatient questions. Still --
They'll call it chance, or luck, or call it Fate,
The cards and stars that tumble as they will.

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Panama

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Weeks » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:23 am UTC

I also got the feeling they were lovers fwiw
Am I gregnant
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Quercus wrote:Agreed, but "constitutional fetishism" doesn't have that lovely alliteration between fetishism, first and fucking
rath358 wrote:I have been replaced D:

Tyndmyr
Posts: 10130
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:09 pm UTC

I think the Uncanny Valley just doesn't apply to everyone. I had moments of "oh yeah, that's definitely CG", but they weren't horribly distracting/offputting. That said, across the hall afterward, Episode one was playing. Looking at that, immediately after seeing Rogue, WAS kind of awful. The amount of plastic-y CGI in there was...high. It's not perfect yet, but I appreciate what they're trying for, and the progress that's happened, I suppose.

Robuts:
Spoiler:
EdgarJPublius wrote:@Tyndmyr
R2 and C3P0 are dicks, having known where the secret rebel base on Yavin was all along.

What makes them dicks for knowing that? Before they were stranded on Tatooine, the next stop for the Tantive IV after picking up Kenobi was Alderaan, not the base on Yavin. Before Scarif, it's likely that Yavin IV was about to be abandoned anyway.


If you think about the movies in chronological order, R2/C3P0 are around for...basically everything, but often do not volunteer information when it would be helpful. This is probably an artifact of not considering the effect of omnipresent robots, and simply not planning out what's going to be in the next movie, and of course, out of order filming. Really, it's little different from them not mentioning to Luke that hey, we were totally at your parents wedding and your birth, and him turning into Vader in Episode IV. After a while, it's a little odd that they're coincidentally at pretty much every important location and event in the entire galaxy, but mostly do not drive plot. If you view *solely* the originals, robots are mostly incidental, but the larger cinematic universe just includes them in so much that it makes the original movies seem odd in comparison.


Murdery:
Spoiler:
The rebellion are dicks, for wanting to kill her father to "stop the superweapon" even though it said superweapon has already been demonstrated to be operational, uncomfortably close to them. Seriously, this whole subplot makes no GD sense as framed.



I dunno, when the general told Kassian the kill order was still on, he didn't know the weapon was operational, he'd only heard that Jedha had been destroyed, which he clearly didn't believe or know what to make of if he did, not by what.
Even if he had known the weapon was operational, he still might have thought killing Gaylan was a good idea, He would have had no idea that Erso had betrayed the Empire by building a flaw into the Death Star, and would have wanted to prevent him from potentially designing new weapons for the Empire.[/quote]

Maybe? But Jedha knows the reasoning for the kill order. And he physically saw the death star blow up the city. It was kind of difficult for him to miss that. And knowing that it's obviously irrelevant should make him at least consider that when struggling with if he should do it or not. And the general probably should have at least stated other grounds for killing people, if he had them. He didn't. Figuring out that the Death Star killed Jedha is...pretty obvious. The Death Star's really hard to miss. And you have agents who were there, and who you are literally talking to. At that point, not knowing is just grabbing the idiot ball with both hands.


Hoverpower:
Spoiler:
Star destroyers hover over cities, now, I guess. It looked cool, but you'd think this would have been really handy in other situations.

I'm pretty sure we've seen hovering Star Destroyers in Rebels, not sure where it would have come up in any of the previous movies though.


Hoth, probably. Though, I suppose one could make an argument for the defensive guns being able to somehow murderize star destroyers, yet not appreciably affect walkers? The star destroyers also appeared pretty ineffective in the Scarif battle. Very little exchange of fire between capital ships. Seemed odd.

Wait, the answers probably shields. Shields in Star Wars appear to do whatever is convenient.

Anyways, there are many places where it would be just as logical to do what they're doing in Rebels, parking close for easy shuttle flights/intimidation. Cloud City, why not?

Backpack laser machine guns apparently also provide ludicrous firepower, but will never be used again.

These we had seen used during the Clone Wars, pretty sure we've seen them used in Rebels too. Other than on Hoth, most of the storm troopers we see in the original trilogy are basically security forces and it makes sense that they'd only be equipped with carbines, and the Rebel troops likewise are lightly armed commandos. On Hoth, and I think on Tatooine, I remember seeing some heavier infantry weapons too, just not this specific one.


They have some Blaster Rifles, which do not appear to be anywhere in this thing's league. There are also turrets and platforms and things, but nothing man portable that's vaguely like this. We've generally had a creep towards more dakka in the movies as they are produced. The older the movie, the slower the pace of fire of hand powered weapons in general.



Diplomacy:
Spoiler:
I like to think her claiming diplomatic immunity was a ballsy move totally in keeping with her character. Honestly, based on what we know of her and the mission she was on even from the original movie, I think her seeming sincere in that particular scene rather than sarcastic is what's sort of odd and inconsistent.


I mean, Wedge Antilles literally dies claiming the same thing, yeah? It seems really odd for them to be so dedicated to such an obvious lie in a scene that's framing them as the good guys, and Vader as evil.

I mean, the stated reason why Vader uncovers her actual motive is "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies." This is kind of like what happened in the movie, but doesn't really fit. There's just the one transmission. And calling them spies isn't quite right. This was a raid, not a spy mission. The conversation just doesn't fit with them literally having just been at the same battle.

User avatar
EdgarJPublius
Official Propagandi.... Nifty Poster Guy
Posts: 3541
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:56 am UTC
Location: where the wind takes me

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:20 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Murdery:
Spoiler:
EdgarJPublius wrote:
The rebellion are dicks, for wanting to kill her father to "stop the superweapon" even though it said superweapon has already been demonstrated to be operational, uncomfortably close to them. Seriously, this whole subplot makes no GD sense as framed.



I dunno, when the general told Kassian the kill order was still on, he didn't know the weapon was operational, he'd only heard that Jedha had been destroyed, which he clearly didn't believe or know what to make of if he did, not by what.
Even if he had known the weapon was operational, he still might have thought killing Gaylan was a good idea, He would have had no idea that Erso had betrayed the Empire by building a flaw into the Death Star, and would have wanted to prevent him from potentially designing new weapons for the Empire.


Maybe? But Jedha knows the reasoning for the kill order. And he physically saw the death star blow up the city. It was kind of difficult for him to miss that. And knowing that it's obviously irrelevant should make him at least consider that when struggling with if he should do it or not. And the general probably should have at least stated other grounds for killing people, if he had them. He didn't. Figuring out that the Death Star killed Jedha is...pretty obvious. The Death Star's really hard to miss. And you have agents who were there, and who you are literally talking to. At that point, not knowing is just grabbing the idiot ball with both hands.


Spoiler:
Kassian specifically says he didn't want to transmit information about the Death Star because they were too deep in Imperial space and I guess he was worried about the signal being intercepted, so he sent a short, vague message. The general didn't have much information to work with and so reiterated the kill order. Kassian was the only one int he loop with ground truth, and he decided not to follow through with the kill order.


Hoverpower:
Spoiler:
Star destroyers hover over cities, now, I guess. It looked cool, but you'd think this would have been really handy in other situations.

I'm pretty sure we've seen hovering Star Destroyers in Rebels, not sure where it would have come up in any of the previous movies though.


Hoth, probably. Though, I suppose one could make an argument for the defensive guns being able to somehow murderize star destroyers, yet not appreciably affect walkers? The star destroyers also appeared pretty ineffective in the Scarif battle. Very little exchange of fire between capital ships. Seemed odd.

Wait, the answers probably shields. Shields in Star Wars appear to do whatever is convenient.

Anyways, there are many places where it would be just as logical to do what they're doing in Rebels, parking close for easy shuttle flights/intimidation. Cloud City, why not?



Yea, Hoth had a shield and a big honking space gun, so hovering directly over the battlefield probably wouldn't have been a great idea.
Cloud City was supposed to be a trap, Vader didn't want to broadcast imperial presence there until it had sprung.


Spoiler:
Backpack laser machine guns apparently also provide ludicrous firepower, but will never be used again.

These we had seen used during the Clone Wars, pretty sure we've seen them used in Rebels too. Other than on Hoth, most of the storm troopers we see in the original trilogy are basically security forces and it makes sense that they'd only be equipped with carbines, and the Rebel troops likewise are lightly armed commandos. On Hoth, and I think on Tatooine, I remember seeing some heavier infantry weapons too, just not this specific one.


They have some Blaster Rifles, which do not appear to be anywhere in this thing's league. There are also turrets and platforms and things, but nothing man portable that's vaguely like this. We've generally had a creep towards more dakka in the movies as they are produced. The older the movie, the slower the pace of fire of hand powered weapons in general.

Spoiler:
Well, there's a couple of possible alternative explanations I guess. Maybe the Empire doesn't issue them for basically the same reason they stick to TIE Fighters, or maybe backpack automatic blasters have some draw-back that is not relevant to it's use in the movie but somehow makes them less suitable for mass adoption? I guess that may be reaching a bit.



Diplomacy:
Spoiler:
I like to think her claiming diplomatic immunity was a ballsy move totally in keeping with her character. Honestly, based on what we know of her and the mission she was on even from the original movie, I think her seeming sincere in that particular scene rather than sarcastic is what's sort of odd and inconsistent.


I mean, Wedge Antilles literally dies claiming the same thing, yeah? It seems really odd for them to be so dedicated to such an obvious lie in a scene that's framing them as the good guys, and Vader as evil.

I mean, the stated reason why Vader uncovers her actual motive is "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies." This is kind of like what happened in the movie, but doesn't really fit. There's just the one transmission. And calling them spies isn't quite right. This was a raid, not a spy mission. The conversation just doesn't fit with them literally having just been at the same battle.


Spoiler:
Fair enough, I had forgotten Captain Antilles told the same story. I'm not sure lying to the evil guy force choking them makes them seem less like good guys though. Also, I think I like my version better anyway.


Holy crap, editing this many separate spoiler tags with nested quotes for proper-quote-sniping format was obnoxiously difficult.
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Zohar » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:44 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:Holy crap, editing this many separate spoiler tags with nested quotes for proper-quote-sniping format was obnoxiously difficult.

It's why I try to keep my quotes short and, if possible, only including the last person who talked.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

Tyndmyr
Posts: 10130
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:14 pm UTC

It really was, I ran into trouble with my previous one as well.

Anyways, this should be spoiler free enough.

I think a lot of those things are a result of sort of walking away from the black and white morality of the originals. In the original trilogy, there's little attention given to portraying the Rebellion as seedy, or similar to the Empire...it's a pretty straightforward white hats and black hats kind of thing. They're pretty obviously trying to shift that for this somewhat, and there's a certain dissonance in the portrayals.

I mean, sure, we all could speculate about contractors on the death star and what not, but in-movie, that wasn't sold as a moral issue.

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1238
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby JudeMorrigan » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:21 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Diplomacy:
Spoiler:
I mean, Wedge Antilles literally dies claiming the same thing, yeah?

Quick, nitpicky note: you mean Raymus Antilles. Wedge Antilles is the fighter pilot who lived through the entire original trilogy. They're different, likely unrelated characters.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 10130
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:48 pm UTC

Ah, crap, yeah, brain fart. Def meant Raymus.

User avatar
Sizik
Posts: 1155
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:48 am UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Sizik » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:35 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Robuts:
Spoiler:
EdgarJPublius wrote:@Tyndmyr
R2 and C3P0 are dicks, having known where the secret rebel base on Yavin was all along.

What makes them dicks for knowing that? Before they were stranded on Tatooine, the next stop for the Tantive IV after picking up Kenobi was Alderaan, not the base on Yavin. Before Scarif, it's likely that Yavin IV was about to be abandoned anyway.


If you think about the movies in chronological order, R2/C3P0 are around for...basically everything, but often do not volunteer information when it would be helpful. This is probably an artifact of not considering the effect of omnipresent robots, and simply not planning out what's going to be in the next movie, and of course, out of order filming. Really, it's little different from them not mentioning to Luke that hey, we were totally at your parents wedding and your birth, and him turning into Vader in Episode IV. After a while, it's a little odd that they're coincidentally at pretty much every important location and event in the entire galaxy, but mostly do not drive plot. If you view *solely* the originals, robots are mostly incidental, but the larger cinematic universe just includes them in so much that it makes the original movies seem odd in comparison.



Spoiler:
C3PO was memory-wiped at the end of Ep. III, so him not knowing anything re: Vader makes sense. R2's a lot better at keeping secrets, especially since he can pretty much only talk through C3PO.
gmalivuk wrote:
King Author wrote:If space (rather, distance) is an illusion, it'd be possible for one meta-me to experience both body's sensory inputs.
Yes. And if wishes were horses, wishing wells would fill up very quickly with drowned horses.

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 25657
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Star Wars: Episode 7: Electric Boogaleven

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:57 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
Flumble wrote:Does it introduce new setpieces (e.g. no death star, millenium falcon) and a plot of their own?

Huh, that actually brings up an issue I hadn't thought about. If a new viewer watched all -eight- movies in SW universe chronological order, seeing the Death Star for the first time in IV is completely spoiled.

My main impetus to have kids is to try out different viewing orders on them.

Yep. The Death Star was revealed in #3, both in plans and a framework. Vader and Palpatine's explicit Master/Servant relationship as well - in Hope you could reasonably assume that Vader is the equivalent of Merlin to the Emperor - Magic Space Wizard-knight who only barely pays attention to the Emperor and only does it 'cause he does what he wants and fighting the Emperor is more trouble than it's worth.

There are a ton of "first reveal" elements that are ruined by watching them in numeric or internal chronological order. That Vader has a (red!) lightsaber, for instance. Not that you'd not know he has it these days, pop culture being what it is, but still.

You're supposed to see Obi Wan, old man, sneaking around and then run in to Vader, red doomblade emerging from the dark of his getup. It's meant to be a threatening first reveal.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

Mambrino
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:45 pm UTC
Location: No we don't have polar bears. Except in zoos.

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Mambrino » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:58 pm UTC

Lovers:

Spoiler:
I just could not see it there. I thought it was a classic comrades-in-arms-friendship thing all the way through until I finally started reading this thread, really. Also, they were a weird cyber-crystal monk and armed guard to the temple of said monks; there might even be enforcing a celibacy rule like the jedi, for what we know.

Then again, I'm socially awkward. I thought that romantic relationships involve, you know, kissing and other similar physical expression. Especially so because as far as I know, the existence of sexual drive in the background and the "falling in love / being infatuated" is the thing that makes romantic relationships different from friendships. Which also have love, at their best, but slightly different kind of.

So expressing any emotion that signs "I care for you", especially in a war flick for dying comrade, or, "I have your back, even if you are a weird jedi mystic who believes that shit", is now reserved as a sign of romantic relationship? What a depressing thought.

As a sign of that, I don't think the captain Andor and Jyn had much anything romantic going on between them, either. When facing a certain death, you just want to hug someone before you die.


Other than that point:

In general, I liked it.

Spoiler:
There were some plot holes, like the pilot not losing his mind (really, he became more focused and less nervous...). And I think Jyn should have had the argument "mission was to kill my father, not to rescue him like you told me!" with the bigwigs at council.

Actually, the spy mission plot was a bit non-sensical. "We heard there is new information from an engineer working on a superweapon, known to be a sympathetic to our cause, trying to get that intel to us via an informant risking his life! We shall kill him!"

Actually, it could have been quite bad without the final act, the operation at the archives on Scafir: against the orders of superiors and without knowledge of any support, we are going to save the rebellion or die trying! It had the right atmosphere, and action was well done as far as I can judge these matters.

And the K-whatever was the bestest droid in the saga.


Re: tie-in to ep IV.

Spoiler:
Yeah that was weird. Why Leia was present in the battle but not doing much until they could escape with the data? I don't think that would have been like her.

In my headcanon, it would have been better if a lone ship would have just jumped to hyperspace, insert dialogue that amounts to "Captain Antilles and Tantive IV are waiting at <insert>! Quick! Lord Vader is at our tails! Transmit the data!"

maybeagnostic
Posts: 600
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:34 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby maybeagnostic » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:54 am UTC

Finally watched it today and still haven't made up my mind how much I liked it. Everything after they decided to go after the plans was cool and exciting but everything before that felt needlessly complicated and drawn out. Especially the first 15-20 minutes felt evenly split between normal scenes lasting about 30 seconds and planet/ship establishing shots which is typical of star wars but got old fast.

How does data transmission even work?
Spoiler:
That's what the whole climax hinges on but we just kept getting new hurdles thrown in the path of success without any warning or proper explanation. "You have to get to the data consoles. Nope, just kidding, data consoles only tells you which physical memory bank to pull then you are done. Nope, just kidding, you have to get to the antenna on top of the tower to transmit the actual message. Nope, just kidding, you have to destroy the shield before you can use the antenna. Nope, just kidding, you have to transmit a message through the shield to someone outside before the shield can be destroyed so you can transmit your original message but you can't just transmit your original message because... hey, look over there! Ok, you did all that? Now someone else needs to burn it to a floppy and get chased by a sith while they physically bring the floppy over to a ship that's docked with the current one.

They really should have cut out a several steps here is what I am saying. Like retrieving the data once they had access to the first data console should have been easy because this is where the Empire stores all their friend Catherine videos and they want to have easy access to them on demand. Then it should have been obvious to the rebel fleet that they need to bring down the shield to receive the transmission instead of them just hovering there waiting for the most obvious instruction ever. And finally, it would have been better if Leia's ship was in a nearby system where the rebel guy transmits the plans to her right before getting killed by Vader- then Vader knows she has them but Leia can still reasonably claim she was on a diplomatic mission and not just docked with a rebel warship during an assault on a major Imperial facility.

Saw Gerrera
Spoiler:
I liked the idea of his character- the broken resistance extremist that even other resistance fighters have broken ties with. However, everything around his story was too bright, pretty and cartoonish for me to take him seriously. I know Forrest Whitaker can play imposing intimading dude in charge but this wasn't it. Him not being scary totally ruins Cassian and his men too because they are supposed to be him-light but even the "worst" version of imperial extremist badass isn't actually scary.

Chirrut & Baze
Spoiler:
The thought they might be a couple never crossed my mind until Chirrut died. Baze's reaction then seemed more like losing a lover than a close friend but with how tight they seemed to be, I can easily see people reading it either way.

Rebellion & Galen Erso
Spoiler:
The assassination order from the start seemed to me like one paranoid Rebellion general going behind the backs of their council to take the "easier" route. I don't think anything in the movie contradicted this but maybe I read too much into him going after Cassian in private after the meeting.

The characters were mostly not very memorable. Good actors sold me on them during the movie but 12 hours after seeing it, I am already starting to forget them and I have look up the names of everyone except Jyn Erso.
T: ... through an emergency induction port.
S: That's a straw, Tali.
T: Emerrrgency induction port.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Liri » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:49 am UTC

I saw it again.

Darth Vader's neck bugged me more this time now that you guys pointed it out!

I have a crush on Mon Mothma.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
mathmannix
Posts: 1401
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:12 pm UTC
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby mathmannix » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:28 pm UTC

I don't think this needs to be spoilered.
Did it bother anyone else that Dantooine wasn't even mentioned, much less shown as the location of the [former] rebel base?
(Unless I missed something; there WERE a lot of planets thrown into the movie and I've only seen it once so far!)
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

Chen
Posts: 5266
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Chen » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:05 pm UTC

mathmannix wrote:I don't think this needs to be spoilered.
Did it bother anyone else that Dantooine wasn't even mentioned, much less shown as the location of the [former] rebel base?
(Unless I missed something; there WERE a lot of planets thrown into the movie and I've only seen it once so far!)


Going by old EU stuff though Dantooine base was abandoned about 1 year before the Battle of Yavin which is still a fair bit back from the timeline in this movie.

I'm curious as to why Leia told Obi-wan and Luke to go to Alderaan instead of just Yavin 4. The fact both R2 and C3PO knew about Yavin 4 is even worse since it means their capture would have been all the worse for the rebels. That said, I suspect the scene with them in it was just a fanservice callout and people didn't really consider the continuity implications of it.

Forgetting of course the fact that R2 could have told Luke at any point in the original trilogy that Vader was his father...

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Liri » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:37 am UTC

Chen wrote:Forgetting of course the fact that R2 could have told Luke at any point in the original trilogy that Vader was his father...

R2 knew he had to discover the truth for himself.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
mathmannix
Posts: 1401
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:12 pm UTC
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby mathmannix » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:59 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Forgetting of course the fact that R2 could have told Luke at any point in the original trilogy that Vader was his father...

(I don't doubt that perhaps someone among you who knows Star Wars better than I may prove me wrong, but...)

I never really thought R2-D2 (or any astromech droid) was really that sentient. They weren't designed to talk to humans, they were designed to fix their ships. They CAN talk to humans through other computers (or droids like C-3PO), but clearly they could have been designed to talk to humans and weren't. They were there to fix ships, and perhaps as physical data transport messengers since that is how Leia uses him rather than just transmitting the message over the galactic subspace / sub-etha / interwebs.

So, my thought is, R2-D2 could absolutely have told Luke that Anakin was Darth Vader (if he managed to pick up on that in the first place, but I haven't rewatched Ep.3 since the first time), if Luke had directly asked him while they were together in the X-wing. Stimulus-Response. AND if his memory wasn't ever wiped, which I would think would be standard procedure from time to time even if it only canonically happens to C-3PO. (I think it makes MORE sense for it to be done to the little guy.) But I don't think R2 would, on his own, come up with the idea, "Hey, I should tell Luke this".
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

Mambrino
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:45 pm UTC
Location: No we don't have polar bears. Except in zoos.

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Mambrino » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:04 am UTC

mathmannix wrote:
Chen wrote:Forgetting of course the fact that R2 could have told Luke at any point in the original trilogy that Vader was his father...

(I don't doubt that perhaps someone among you who knows Star Wars better than I may prove me wrong, but...)

I never really thought R2-D2 (or any astromech droid) was really that sentient. They weren't designed to talk to humans, they were designed to fix their ships. They CAN talk to humans through other computers (or droids like C-3PO), but clearly they could have been designed to talk to humans and weren't. They were there to fix ships, and perhaps as physical data transport messengers since that is how Leia uses him rather than just transmitting the message over the galactic subspace / sub-etha / interwebs.

So, my thought is, R2-D2 could absolutely have told Luke that Anakin was Darth Vader (if he managed to pick up on that in the first place, but I haven't rewatched Ep.3 since the first time), if Luke had directly asked him while they were together in the X-wing. Stimulus-Response. AND if his memory wasn't ever wiped, which I would think would be standard procedure from time to time even if it only canonically happens to C-3PO. (I think it makes MORE sense for it to be done to the little guy.) But I don't think R2 would, on his own, come up with the idea, "Hey, I should tell Luke this".


Well, R2-D2 shows quite much personality and ingenuity during Ep IV. And if I recall correctly, in ep I, the queen personally thanks the droid for saving the ship. So it's not like R2 units are treated as simple tools. (Even more so in TFA.) And for whatever in-universe reasons, technically adept people, pilots etc learn the astromech-beep-language instead of astromech droids having the capability of speaking basic. Maybe protocol droids' translation memory banks are under copyright and so they come with hefty license fees. (Out-of-universe reason is of course rule of funny: the audience has tremendous fun imagining what astromechs say because they have only C-3PO's and other characters' responses to their beeps, and that makes R2's lines better than anything a script-writer could come up with. Same with Chewie talking only in Wookiee grunts and howls and Han still bantering with him.)

edit. My pet theory why R2 didn't tell anything was, well, he said he was Ben Kenobi's old droid, and Obi-Wan probably told him not to divulge their secrets before handing that particular pair of robots to captain Antilles, and Kenobi never had a chance overrule that order.

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 25657
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:22 am UTC

mathmannix wrote:
Chen wrote:Forgetting of course the fact that R2 could have told Luke at any point in the original trilogy that Vader was his father...
I never really thought R2-D2 (or any astromech droid) was really that sentient. They weren't designed to talk to humans, they were designed to fix their ships. They CAN talk to humans through other computers (or droids like C-3PO), but clearly they could have been designed to talk to humans and weren't. They were there to fix ships, and perhaps as physical data transport messengers since that is how Leia uses him rather than just transmitting the message over the galactic subspace / sub-etha / interwebs.

First and foremost, they were designed to be mobile hyperspace computers. The ship repair and secondary pilot/operator bit comes in from being a "They're there, might as well make them more useful" approach.

But yeah, R2's an asshole.

Or...this video floats the idea that Episodes 1-6 are stories being told by R2 to someone else. The short version being that it explains why the same small cast of characters keeps showing up, why R2 has amazing powers and abilities that come up exactly once, and why C3PO - a bot R2 kinda hates - is such a useless jackass
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby ahammel » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:13 pm UTC

Mambrino wrote:And if I recall correctly, in ep I, the queen personally thanks the droid for saving the ship. So it's not like R2 units are treated as simple tools.
On the other hand, a few minutes before that Obi Wan was incredibly blasé about the fact that R2 units were being obliterated by the handful.

Of course Obi Wan personally murdered an army's worth of battle droids and didn't apparently feel bad about it. Maybe he's a biology supremacist? Certainly puts a new spin on the "he's more machine now than man" line.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

Mambrino
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:45 pm UTC
Location: No we don't have polar bears. Except in zoos.

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Mambrino » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:20 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
Mambrino wrote:And if I recall correctly, in ep I, the queen personally thanks the droid for saving the ship. So it's not like R2 units are treated as simple tools.
On the other hand, a few minutes before that Obi Wan was incredibly blasé about the fact that R2 units were being obliterated by the handful.

Of course Obi Wan personally murdered an army's worth of battle droids and didn't apparently feel bad about it. Maybe he's a biology supremacist? Certainly puts a new spin on the "he's more machine now than man" line.


Hey, you might have something there. It's not like it would be in conflict with the Jedi ideology. Remember, the Force surrounds and connects every living thing and so on.

User avatar
podbaydoor
Posts: 7545
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:16 am UTC
Location: spaceship somewhere out there

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:51 am UTC

Lovers:

Spoiler:
I just could not see it there. I thought it was a classic comrades-in-arms-friendship thing all the way through until I finally started reading this thread, really. Also, they were a weird cyber-crystal monk and armed guard to the temple of said monks; there might even be enforcing a celibacy rule like the jedi, for what we know.

Then again, I'm socially awkward. I thought that romantic relationships involve, you know, kissing and other similar physical expression. Especially so because as far as I know, the existence of sexual drive in the background and the "falling in love / being infatuated" is the thing that makes romantic relationships different from friendships. Which also have love, at their best, but slightly different kind of.

So expressing any emotion that signs "I care for you", especially in a war flick for dying comrade, or, "I have your back, even if you are a weird jedi mystic who believes that shit", is now reserved as a sign of romantic relationship? What a depressing thought.

As a sign of that, I don't think the captain Andor and Jyn had much anything romantic going on between them, either. When facing a certain death, you just want to hug someone before you die.


Due to ongoing societal homophobia, there is about a century's worth of filmmakers coding queer/gay/lesbian interactions into their films and characters with dialogue and acting choices that could be plausibly denied to the homophobes, but were intended to be read as queer in the subtext. As such, viewers who are used to reading into subtext for those coded signs - especially LGBTQ viewers starving for positive representation - will read things into subtext.

Spoiler:
In conclusion, Chirrut Îmwe and Baze Malbus have been married for 30 years, pass it on.


Also: Real Asians Portrayed Positively In Space. Asian fans over on Tumblr have been freaking out hardcore since this movie came out, because fucking finally. I adore Chirrut, Baze and Bodhi Rook and I will never apologize for it.
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
noun
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Zohar » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:03 pm UTC

Did anyone ask you to apologize for them? I think in a movie somewhat devoid of meaningful character development, they probably are the most robust characters. Possibly because of the relationships built around them.

Also, hi! Haven't seen you around in a while!
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
podbaydoor
Posts: 7545
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:16 am UTC
Location: spaceship somewhere out there

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:55 pm UTC

Outside of explicitly diverse and progressive spaces, any time a minority celebrates or complains about representation or lack of representation, respectively, there is a near-guarantee that a member of the majority is going to ride into the discussion with responses ranging from openly bigoted to ignorantly privileged to well-meaning but still dismissive. It's been mostly the latter in my circles, but it's still frustrating.

There was an excellent discussion thread on Tumblr talking about the incredibly powerful representation of Bodhi Rook. He's a clearly brown-skinned, clearly Middle-Eastern-coded character (played by a British Pakistani actor), who hails from a thinly-veiled Space Baghdad, which has been occupied by an oppressive imperial force - complete with slow patrols in the streets atop tanks - and this brown-skinned character is portrayed as a hero. In a mainstream action blockbuster. Released in the US. That's amazing.

Hi!
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
noun
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Zohar » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:58 pm UTC

Yeah that's definitely fair. I was also very happy about Rook's portrayal, it's so awesome to see Middle Eastern characters (and actors!) portrayed positively on screen.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby ahammel » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:07 pm UTC

Talking of representation: this story about Diego Luna's accent has been making the rounds.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
podbaydoor
Posts: 7545
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:16 am UTC
Location: spaceship somewhere out there

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby podbaydoor » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:22 am UTC

I saw that post on Tumblr! I think it's so sweet that Diego Luna saw that and retweeted it.
tenet |ˈtenit|
noun
a principle or belief, esp. one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy : the tenets of classical liberalism.
tenant |ˈtenənt|
noun
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.

VgKing
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:05 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby VgKing » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:38 pm UTC

Oh, I love the way it depicts the struggle between good and evil. It's such an electrifying film. I have watched it like three times and I would watch it again.

User avatar
mosc
Doesn't care what you think.
Posts: 5370
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby mosc » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:06 pm UTC

I liked the Dirty Dozen better before they all got put into space.

Just saying...
Title: It was given by the XKCD moderators to me because they didn't care what I thought (I made some rantings, etc). I care what YOU think, the joke is forums.xkcd doesn't care what I think.

User avatar
timrem
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:02 am UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby timrem » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:03 pm UTC

Among my group of friends, anyone who saw Rogue One in 3D had no issue with CGI Tarkin, while everyone who saw the film in 2D placed him firmly in Uncanny Valley territory. It's probably just an anomaly from the small sample size, but I was curious if others' reactions were similarly aligned.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Liri » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:19 pm UTC

I haven't seen a 3D movie in a while, but assuming the tech hasn't been perfected yet, that makes sense.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Zohar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:01 pm UTC

Interesting. I saw it in 2D and definitely felt weird about him, but some of my friends with me had no idea he was cgi.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
pseudoidiot
Sexy Beard Man
Posts: 5055
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:30 pm UTC
Location: Kansas City
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby pseudoidiot » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:03 pm UTC

I saw it in 3D and he was definitely in uncanny valley territory sometimes. Some scenes were better than others. And I thought his cgi was better than Leia's. I'm guessing they spent a lot more time on him because he had more screen time.
Derailed : Gaming Outside the Box.
SecondTalon wrote:*swoons* I love you, all powerful pseudoidiot!
ShootTheChicken wrote:I can't stop thinking about pseudoidiot's penis.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Zohar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:08 pm UTC

I'm surprised for Leah they didn't ask Carrie Fisher to put on a Princess Leah outfit and then photoshopped every single frame she was in to make her look young. Maybe that's what they did, but yeah - she looked a lot weirder.

I was joking with a guy at work that they'll just release another version in five years with better CGI. Which they probably would.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

Drumheller769
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 7:46 pm UTC
Location: ♞♞♞

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Drumheller769 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:27 pm UTC

Wasn't there a statement by Carrie Fisher's estate that they would allow her....um assets to be used in future movies?
The Great Hippo wrote:Arguing with the internet is a lot like arguing with a bullet. The internet's chief exports are cute kittens, porn, and Reasons Why You Are Completely Fucking Wrong.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Zohar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:29 pm UTC

I actually heard the opposite, that the studios said they won't use her in the third movie? All of the filming has been completed for the 2nd film, so that shouldn't be a problem for that one.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

Drumheller769
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 7:46 pm UTC
Location: ♞♞♞

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Drumheller769 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:34 pm UTC

Ah gotcha, I didnt know about the second movie bit.
The Great Hippo wrote:Arguing with the internet is a lot like arguing with a bullet. The internet's chief exports are cute kittens, porn, and Reasons Why You Are Completely Fucking Wrong.

Chen
Posts: 5266
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby Chen » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:21 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I actually heard the opposite, that the studios said they won't use her in the third movie? All of the filming has been completed for the 2nd film, so that shouldn't be a problem for that one.


Yeah I think the studio said they wouldn't, though I imagine that means they COULD if they so wanted to in the future. I gotta wonder what clause in the contract allows that (presumably the same one that lets them sell action figures and the like).

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 25657
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:49 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I'm surprised for Leah they didn't ask Carrie Fisher to put on a Princess Leah outfit and then photoshopped every single frame she was in to make her look young. Maybe that's what they did, but yeah - she looked a lot weirder.

This woman + wig and contacts + CGI = Rogue One Leia.

And I'm pretty sure they CGI'd Tarken because Guy Henry ain't old enough yet
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

maybeagnostic
Posts: 600
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:34 pm UTC

Re: Star Wars Episode 3.5: Roguey One Kenobe

Postby maybeagnostic » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:30 am UTC

The friends I saw it with and I didn't know about the CGI ahead of time and while we realized there was something a bit off about Tarkin, it definitely wasn't all that noticeable. Leia was a lot more noticeable and retroactively made me realize Tarkin was CGI.
T: ... through an emergency induction port.
S: That's a straw, Tali.
T: Emerrrgency induction port.


Return to “Movies and TV Shows”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests