Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

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rmsgrey
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:09 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:As you said, it's not a past relationship, so I think this situation is different. And BTW speising, just because it's a comedy doesn't mean we should expect less from the characters.

Anyway, I haven't seen a ton yet, probably less than ten episodes, but I don't recall him complaining too much about his wife. Might be more later.


Frasier and Lilith get on reasonably well - it's the other characters who have a problem with her. Yes, he mentions their break-up in the first episode (as a way of resolving their relationship from Cheers) but they're at least cordial in person he's generally got other things on his mind when she's not in town. It's Niles who keeps talking about his (current) wife (who gets mentioned in practically every episode of the first few seasons, but never appears).

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Ginger
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby Ginger » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:50 am UTC

Actually, he talked about it more than once, and I've seen over ten episodes. Anyways, just once is enough, and they so distant they might as well be exes. So I don't see why you all hate on my emotions about a comedy show about a bad inappropriate therapist so much? And Niles whine like a barking male dog about Maris.
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Zohar
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby Zohar » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:05 am UTC

We are not "hating on your emotions", we just think differently than you do?
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Ginger
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby Ginger » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:29 am UTC

Zohar wrote:We are not "hating on your emotions", we just think differently than you do?

That's fine sorry if I came off as abrasive in any way. Anyways, I saw the show in the nineties or whatever? So? I may not be remembering everything correctly. I am pretty sure however that he mentions Lilith more than once and not in a good light? Could be mistaken though anyways thanks for reading bye bye. :)
Amy Lee wrote:Just what we all need... more lies about a world that never was and never will be.


Azula to Long Feng wrote:Don't flatter yourself, you were never even a player.

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plytho
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby plytho » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:32 am UTC

I've started watching timeless and I'm really enjoying it. It's about three people (white guy, black guy, white girl) traveling through time to stop the bad guy from changing American history. It really reminds me of sliders. It makes no sense if you think about it, so don't think about it too much and enjoy the antics.
he him his

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Soupspoon
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:08 am UTC

plytho wrote:I've started watching timeless and I'm really enjoying it. It's about three people (white guy, black guy, white girl) traveling through time to stop the bad guy from changing American history. It really reminds me of sliders. It makes no sense if you think about it, so don't think about it too much and enjoy the antics.

I've seen a few of the episodes (I think it was on Channel 4, over here, a year ago, but I didn't watch much regular TV at the time) and it seems to sort of follow its own time-travel consistency, of the 'interfere and rebranch' chronological-tree type (without Marty McFlying the time-travellers themselves, just A Sound Of Thundering things upon their 'return'). The whole journal/whatever and cabalistic power-group/Alias-like artefact trail is arguably more of a stretch, but I hadn't spotted too much in the first few episodes that went beyond an expected degree of disbelief levitation for the premise.

A comparison with Quantum Leap could also be made, except doing their own self-contained Al/Ziggy/Gooshie stuff alongside being the Sam. With…
Spoiler:
…who actually is/are the Sam and who is/are the Evil Leaper being a bone of contention…
…raised within the handful of episodes I saw.

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cephalopod9
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby cephalopod9 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:58 pm UTC

I caught most of an episode, and it looks fun, but I'm over saturated in moving pictures content.

The thing that tends bother me about time travel plots is how often characters are rushing to accomplish something that shouldn't matter how long it takes to do because there's time travel. Of the things I've watched, Steins Gate probably frustrated me the most, and Primer was an over correction.

Another thing that's real weird about time travel movies is that there were two different movies where Rachel McAdams was romantically pursued by a dude with time travel powers, and the dude's actions are played as cute and sentimental, but it's pretty troubling if you think about it.

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Soupspoon
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:55 pm UTC

The urgency of time-travellers can be dealt with several ways. I think (IIRC) this time it's that they have to 'chase' the others as soon as they know where/when to chase them, then have a scenario in the past to play through in real-time with a localised deadline (not helped by not being able to land five weeks in advance and just ambush the others when they arrive, even if that's possible, due to uncertainty).

Other methods include Seven Days's premise of only having seven days of rewind (then returning the 'normal' way, except now with the seven-days-waiting ship/pilot, including fuel 'used' not existing, and supposedly no way of multi-leaping back to give more preparation time at either end of the mission). Then there's "time spent in past running linear with time waiting in the future", with or without obvious 'timequake' revisions of events outside/inside Time Travel Agency HQ as the historic away-team nudges causality about, and that's with or without a continued wormhole for communication or even passing objects back and forth.

The Whovian universe goes all Timey-Wimey about it. Some things always happen, some things can change, but (apart from when specifically avoided, for Plot) you have the Blinovitch Limitation effect and/or paradox-protection modules in all Tardii and related equipment to prevent casually revisiting a personal timeline (though you can benefit/otherwise from your own future actions in the universal past!) and causing Problems (chronovores being just one instantiation).

Though, really, Who is soft-science as far as time-travel is concerned. Most of the other memorable versions either made sure they were consistent or never got so venerable in their popularity that they had writers entirely missing the point about the lore built up along the way. (Also, this Who universe is at least one entirely new version of the old 'remembered' universe, as of the Pandorica episode, never mind the mostly off-screen Time War remoulding things and personal timeline issues arising from Trenzalore, so consistency with its past self should probably be regarded more extraordinary than the inconsistencies.)

rmsgrey
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby rmsgrey » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:57 pm UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:The thing that tends bother me about time travel plots is how often characters are rushing to accomplish something that shouldn't matter how long it takes to do because there's time travel.


Yeah, the standard fictional model of time is that, even if there's not full San Dimas Time (in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, time travel is quantised in days, expressed as "the clock is always running in San Dimas"), there's still a ripple effect where, rather than the timeline changing instantly the moment someone steps into a time machine to go into the past, there's a delay before the timeline catches up - someone can wave goodbye to the time traveler, and continue to exist normally unchanged for minutes, hours, or possibly even days, before ceasing to exist as the timeline changes. This may imply the existence of some sort of meta-time - a time that elapses for an observer external to normal time, in which the changes can be observed to ripple forward - or it might be that it can be made to make sense without any second-order time. Either way, there's some sort of inertia to history, meaning that changes don't happen immediately - and you have a limited window in which to reverse them before the new status quo establishes itself, and you no longer existed to make sure your parents get together after all.

The problem is that thinking about time travel without thinking in terms of some sort of meta-time to provide a "before" and "after" is very unintuitive, so, even people trained in that sort of reasoning have trouble with it. The average writer (even of SF) isn't trained in temporal logic, so tends to just go with what feels right rather than reasoning everything out.

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Soupspoon
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:14 pm UTC

(I realise you probably wrote that as I was writing mine. If only one or other of us could go back in time... ;))

rmsgrey wrote:and you no longer existed to make sure your parents get together after all.

Stupidest part of BttF. Rest of it "makes sense", but a time traveller inserted into their own (pre)history should either exist (where they land) or not exist (because they never came back in this branch). Fading away, as a handy guage at how much you're failing to still exist (yet still giving enough existence to decide to do something that will 'unfade' you).

Future-changes back at HQ, as observed, can be explained by the camera crossing between original and (perhaps several) subsequent interfered-with timelines, to witness what branch of the future is currently active given the actions of the traveller. Unless people notice them happening.

(Then you need to say that HQ, with the chronomatrix-launchpad-thingummy at its heart, is perhaps enveloped inside a Continuity field. That must apply to the guys at the Project Quantum Leap desert base, perhaps related to the aurora effects that Al sees during that first unscheduled Leap activation, and must make Al's decades of marriage ('previously' cut short to him being MIA and his wife assuming him dead) confusing, if he can't resolve pre- and post-leap continuities in his own head, never mind the other things that seem to go our way (the timeline as we remember it), to the pleasure of the team, whereas previously they can only have known of it differently.)

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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:41 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:(Then you need to say that HQ, with the chronomatrix-launchpad-thingummy at its heart, is perhaps enveloped inside a Continuity field. That must apply to the guys at the Project Quantum Leap desert base, perhaps related to the aurora effects that Al sees during that first unscheduled Leap activation, and must make Al's decades of marriage ('previously' cut short to him being MIA and his wife assuming him dead) confusing, if he can't resolve pre- and post-leap continuities in his own head, never mind the other things that seem to go our way (the timeline as we remember it), to the pleasure of the team, whereas previously they can only have known of it differently.)


I forget whether it was explained on the show (it's about 5 years since I rewatched the series) but I know one of the spin-off novels explicitly stated that, because Ziggy is grown from neural cells taken from both Sam and Al (which is also what enables Al to serve as Observer), Ziggy is aware of the changes in history around her, and while Al's in the Imaging Chamber, he's isolated from time changes too - so whenever he comes off shift, Ziggy briefs him on who he's currently dating and any other shifts in interpersonal relations among the project staff that he should be aware of.

For a show strongly linked to Bellisario's Maxim ("Don't examine this too closely"), Quantum Leap does surprisingly well at maintaining philosophical consistency (even if the physics is a bit caca). Under their model, time can be changed, but the time-traveler, existing in the new timeline before the change, isn't affected, though his original time will be - and anything linked with the time-traveler across time is also protected - Ziggy, Al when inside the Imaging Chamber, and, presumably, the Leapee. Though there was that one episode where, once young Al's chances of survival dropped to 0, Al got replaced as Observer in mid sentence, and didn't reappear until Sam changed history far enough to give him a chance of survival after all...

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cephalopod9
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Re: Fleeting Thoughts: Movie and TV Shows

Postby cephalopod9 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:14 am UTC

Soupspoon wrote:Stupidest part of BttF. Rest of it "makes sense", but a time traveller inserted into their own (pre)history should either exist (where they land) or not exist (because they never came back in this branch). Fading away, as a handy guage at how much you're failing to still exist (yet still giving enough existence to decide to do something that will 'unfade' you).

I have to disagree you there,
the dumbest part of Back to the Future is claiming no one can predict a lightning strike.
Soupspoon wrote:Future-changes back at HQ, as observed, can be explained by the camera crossing between original and (perhaps several) subsequent interfered-with timelines, to witness what branch of the future is currently active given the actions of the traveller. Unless people notice them happening.
the audience as subject to the influences of time shifts is a real wild idea.
Applying a strict logic memories, even those of the time traveler, shouldn't be exempt from changes to the time line. That's a lot to think through, and including the audience in that framework is even more ambitious.
... it's weird that I can't think of any terminology that specifies when a show has content that is dreamed or imagined by a character. That kind of seems significant, like the difference between 1st and 3rd person narrative in text.

Anthology movies should be more of a thing. There was some buzz going around about a potential Lord of the Rings streaming/tv series, and while tv/streaming adaptations have been incomprehensibly good in places, I'd so much rather have a Middle Earth anthology with a bunch of 3 to 20 minute clips from a bunch of directors of whatever they think is interesting.


aw dang it, I was the last one to post here and i feel obligated to edit and not double post.

anyway, i'm gettin' over a flu bug and have some low-grade rebound insomnia, and
I'm stuck thinking about this small segment on Last Week Tonight which featured a sort of viral clip of an Info Wars hack trying to get a reaction from a young woman wearing an anime school girl outfit, but John Oliver calls her basically "sassy Pop-eye". It's just real weird to me that was the immediate point of reference. Does John Oliver not know it's an anime thing? Does Last Week Tonight assume it's audience won't appreciate references to anime?
It's also just real weird that Japanese school uniforms were modeled after British naval uniforms, and that action cartoons have popularized that among American nerd people.
I can't come up with a better punchline, but Donald Duck's sailor suit is closer to the anime costume than what Pop-eye wears.
What reads as "a sailor suit"?


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