rmsgrey wrote:And Klaue had a plan for getting away from them that worked.
No, he didn't. He got caught. His only "plan" was "man I sure hope Killmonger bails me out".
rmsgrey wrote:How many fences/buyers are there for several billions dollars worth of vibranium? And it's been a while since I watched it, so I could well be mis-remembering, but was it ever stated that what Ultron purchased was all of what Klaue stole, or was it just what Klaue still had at that point? We know Klaue was still doing business during that time - we see him dealing with a customer complaint - so his not having sold a large portion of the vibranium he stole seems as likely to be a consequence of there not being a market for industrial quantities of vibranium as of him having trouble making sales.
It is quite literally the most valuable substance in the world. He's an arms dealer sitting on a stash of magical metal that can create flying tanks and super-weapons. He had thirty years to sell it -- and couldn't.
In
Black Panther, we see why: He couldn't show anyone what this stuff could do. Because the instant he did, Wakanda would be on him. It's even mentioned they've been tracking him since the Sokovia sale.
rmsgrey wrote:And, let's not forget, following Age of Ultron, he managed to get a prosthetic arm that incorporated Wakandan technology, and Killmonger was equipped with another Wakandan tech sonic weapon. Maybe Klaue happened to steal a couple of sonic emitters from Wakanda 30 years ago along with the vibranium; if not, then he had a source for Wakandan tech more recently - and either way, knew enough about it to retool it as part of his prosthesis.
Having some vibranium tech left over from the last movie in no way indicates that he knows about the Wakandan government or the face of literally every war-dog. This would be like thinking that knowing how to build a miniature nuclear reactor in my garage somehow gives me keen insight into the inner workings of the Department of Defense. Besides: We don't even know if he built it himself or just found someone else to build it for him.
Probably the latter. Again, Klaue is an Adrian Toomes -- not a Tony Stark. He's a blue collar criminal. He doesn't know how the magic space guns work; he just knows if he steals them he can sell them and use them to blow your face off. He's an evil, racist Han Solo -- which is what makes your presumption that he's an expert on Wakandan intel (or vibranium, for that matter) so baffling.
It'd be like imagining Han Solo is an expert on the Empire's high command, or understands the Force. No, Han Solo just knows how to avoid imperial ships -- and that the Force is pretty useful in a pinch.
rmsgrey wrote:As for bin Laden, he managed to survive 10 years as most wanted man on the planet, and I'd expect him to have known more about the US - particularly about their intelligence and espionage operations - than some Americans as a result.
Osama bin Laden survived as the most wanted man on earth by hiding in caves. He wasn't an expert on America's intelligence or espionage communities; I doubt he'd even recognize a CIA agent if he saw one. He didn't survive through in-depth knowledge of the CIA. He survived by knowing it's really hard to find someone hiding in a cave.
You don't need to know the inner workings of the CIA to hide from the US military. You don't need to know much about the Empire to smuggle your contraband past an imperial blockade. And you don't need to know the the faces of Wakanda's war-dogs (or even how their government works) to continue operating despite being their most wanted criminal.
You just need to keep your head down and know where the blind-spots are: In a cave where their drones can't find you. In a clunky old space-shuttle that nobody looks at too closely. In the wreckage of one ship among many, tucked away and hiding.
rmsgrey wrote:Yeah, my point there is that just because Klaue calls them (and thinks of them as) "savages" doesn't mean he underestimates them - it's more the "brand and/or execute criminals" type of "savage" than the "mud huts and spears" type of "savage".
Klaus clearly means "mud huts and spears" savages. This is intended as explicit racism -- by the actor, the screenwriters, the director, etc. One of the themes of this movie is the toxicity of racism; from the museum director's "low-key" racism to Klaue's old school colonial racism. The only one not getting that appears to be you?
rmsgrey wrote:Anyway, I'm going to be offline for over a week, so won't respond further until at least next weekend, if ever.
Cool. Maybe you can use this as an excuse to just drop it and not respond at all?
I don't think you're going to "get" this, and -- unlike your argument about Zemo's plan being credible in
Civil War -- there's something deeply uncomfortable about saying that the racist white analogue to European colonialism is an expert on the African country he tried to exploit. Especially in a movie that is
explicitly about the impact of Western exploitation and colonialism in Africa.
You might not be trying to be racist, but you've picked a really stupid, really racist hill to die on.
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Aside, and point for an actual discussion: I think it's notable that, outside of Agent Ross, every white character with a speaking role in this movie appears to exhibit some sort of racism. The museum director, Klaue, and the UN ambassador at the end
1. The only exception I can think of is maybe one of Klaue's minions, who has a line consisting of "Hey you" to Okoye (when he recognizes her in the casino).
I think that's actually kind of cool -- although I also think it's a little silly that the one person
not being racist is the only character who is clearly American (even the museum director is British). I also remember thinking Agent Ross felt a little bit like the token "Not All White People Are Bad" character. If this was the case, I think it was a wise move on their part to make the movie more mainstream (and I can see how they even play with this, a little -- calling him 'colonizer' and the great scene with M'Baku) -- but also kind of regrettable that we exist in a reality where it
would be the wise move to make.
1 You could argue this wasn't racism, just genuine confusion -- but I think his response was out of line with what you would expect a UN ambassador to say to a country offering to share their resources, especially given that Civil War has already established Wakanda participates in world relief efforts. The comment makes much more sense to me as him going "uuuuuh, country in Africa? ha ha aren't we supposed to be sending aid to you"