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Black Panther

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:57 pm UTC
by natraj
this is coming out in A WEEK and i am THE MOST EXCITED i have ever been for a movie IN MY LIFE

which is counterproductive because i may DIE of excitement before i make it to the premier. it looks amazing and all the reviews say it is amazing and i have been waiting for this movie since the day i was BORN. i have my tickets i am trying to find the perfect clothes i have friends to go with i am ready.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:30 pm UTC
by Zohar
We are also looking forward to it. Slightly tempered by new puppy and having to figure out logistics.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:10 pm UTC
by Angua
It's pretty incredible. The design is absolutely amazing. The women are all strong, well developed characters, as well as background characters as well (all too often do you end up with people making an effort in the foreground and missing out the background). Not afraid of social commentary.

Spoiler:
I was so glad that they didn't kill any of the main women off to act as a catalyst for someone else's growth. I was really expecting it. I liked that they had Klaw being explicitly racist.

I was a bit disappointed that we end up with another marvel villain who has the same skillset as the hero, but at least he was well developed with a relatable backstory. I'm sad they killed him off, but feel like he got a good death.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:21 pm UTC
by Zohar
It's already out in the UK? That's cool. We have our tickets for Sunday. Apparently the local theater only made the expensive formats available for preorder (IMAX, 3D...) and the regular screenings only get scheduled tomorrow. So we got expensive tickets (blech).

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:25 pm UTC
by Angua
Yeah, the UK always seems to get Marvel movies before the US for some reason.

Not that I'm complaining....

We watched it in Imax 3d. Not as great for the fight scenes but great for the scenery.

Edit: Also, at the end liked the relevant twist on the African proverb
Spoiler:
In crisis the wise build bridges and the foolish build walls (dams in the original, but obviously walls as more topical).

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:22 pm UTC
by pkcommando
Zohar wrote:It's already out in the UK? That's cool. We have our tickets for Sunday. Apparently the local theater only made the expensive formats available for preorder (IMAX, 3D...) and the regular screenings only get scheduled tomorrow. So we got expensive tickets (blech).

Yeah, I can (allegedly) see all the scheduled showings for this weekend, but theaters around me seem to be of the mind that popular movies not be shown in Standard format unless it's outside the matinee times, or on the outer edge. Which isn't much good if you have limited funds and have stuff in the afternoon you want/need to do. OTOH - I can get in at 9:30AM for the IMAX 3D showing for just $20/ticket. I have a bad feeling that, like ~90% of movies I want to see, I'm going to end up waiting weeks for an earlier showing and then just not getting around to seeing it until it's either on Netflix, or I watch it On-Demand at my sister's.

Okay, my post is veering off into a general movie rant. Steering it back -->- Without giving anything else away, how many Stingers for this one and about where are they in the credits? I can check TV Tropes, but it's hard visiting that page w/o getting spoilers along the way.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:20 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
pkcommando wrote:Okay, my post is veering off into a general movie rant. Steering it back -->- Without giving anything else away, how many Stingers for this one and about where are they in the credits? I can check TV Tropes, but it's hard visiting that page w/o getting spoilers along the way.


Not seen the movie yet myself, but I've heard 2 - mid- and end- credits.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:07 pm UTC
by natraj
ugh today is finally the day after an entire lifetime of waiting 13 more hours still seems too long to wait i am SO READY.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:10 pm UTC
by OP Tipping
Non-spoiler comments:
Good story, lots of fun, fine performances, funny jokes, exciting action. They did a good job of being non-specific about ethnicity, by including dress-styles and body art of several different parts of Africa. This is accounted for when they give a brief history of Wakanda.

Spoiler comments:
Spoiler:
1/ The main conflict is politcal: the good guys are strict nationalists, Wakanda-firsters. The bad guy is an American born pan-African socialist who wants to use Wakandan resources to aid the oppressed.
2/ There is a bit of a pattern with Raknarok in that unpleasant information comes to light about the lead character's deceased father that by extension casts the nation in a poor light.
3/ John Kani, who played T'Chaka, has a glass eye which is obvious (even in the afterlife) and although it is a performer trait rather than a character trait, it does mean that the three MCU characters with one functional eye have dark secrets (the others being Fury and Odin).
4/ Hey, couldn't they just have kept Ross sedated during his treatment to avoid the CIA finding out about their technology? Shuri exposits like a volcano.
5/ Hey surely Erik's plan only required him to kill Klaue and rock up with the body, which he could have done at any time. He did not need to wait until they stole the axehead... didn't even need to wait for T'Chaka's death.
6/ T'Challa traipses in the illegal casino passed off as a "friend from Kenya". He's a head of state who has recently been in the news because of the dramatic way his predecessor died. Risk of discovery seems high.
7/ The impression that this was a bit Bondish because of the casino fight and cool vehicle tech was enhanced by the fact that T'Challa survived falling into water after receiving what should have been a mortal wound.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:29 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
OP Tipping wrote:Non-spoiler comments:
Good story, lots of fun, fine performances, funny jokes, exciting action. They did a good job of being non-specific about ethnicity, by including dress-styles and body art of several different parts of Africa. This is accounted for when they give a brief history of Wakanda.

Spoiler comments:
Spoiler:
1/ The main conflict is politcal: the good guys are strict nationalists, Wakanda-firsters. The bad guy is an American born pan-African socialist who wants to use Wakandan resources to aid the oppressed.
2/ There is a bit of a pattern with Raknarok in that unpleasant information comes to light about the lead character's deceased father that by extension casts the nation in a poor light.
3/ John Kani, who played T'Chaka, has a glass eye which is obvious (even in the afterlife) and although it is a performer trait rather than a character trait, it does mean that the three MCU characters with one functional eye have dark secrets (the others being Fury and Odin).
4/ Hey, couldn't they just have kept Ross sedated during his treatment to avoid the CIA finding out about their technology? Shuri exposits like a volcano.
5/ Hey surely Erik's plan only required him to kill Klaue and rock up with the body, which he could have done at any time. He did not need to wait until they stole the axehead... didn't even need to wait for T'Chaka's death.
6/ T'Challa traipses in the illegal casino passed off as a "friend from Kenya". He's a head of state who has recently been in the news because of the dramatic way his predecessor died. Risk of discovery seems high.
7/ The impression that this was a bit Bondish because of the casino fight and cool vehicle tech was enhanced by the fact that T'Challa survived falling into water after receiving what should have been a mortal wound.

Selected responses:

Spoiler:
1) That's kinda true, but incomplete. The good guys put preserving Wakanda as their first priority (as their duty) but are also interested in the good of the wider world (though not entirely clear on how best to pursue it). The bad guy wants to use Wakandan resources to aid specific oppressed to become the new oppressors...
3) Thor also only has one functional eye at present.
4) There are a couple of (in character) reasons to let Shuri exposit at Ross - unless they keep him on ice permanently, the CIA is going to know something happened to save a mortally wounded man (and a close medical examination is going to reveal something); and being open and forthcoming with Ross is the best way to get him as an ally in either hiding the secrets of Wakanda, or helping release them in a controlled and responsible fashion. Once the decision was made to treat Ross, the question wasn't "how do we keep him from knowing too much?" but "how do we keep him from sharing what he knows?" And I suspect T'Challa already had it in mind to read him in on Wakanda's secrets before letting him talk to Klaue.
5) His plan didn't just involve getting into Wakanda - he also wanted a vulnerable power structure he could exploit, and to undermine/embarrass T'Challa to let him create his own power base. By doing, unaugmented, what the great Black Panther couldn't (due to his own interference), he immediately gave himself an advantage in securing power.
7) In fairness to the movie, T'Challa was mostly dead and only survived due to being kept too cold for his body to realise it should be dead. It's a lot better than most "never found the body"s that way.


Additional thoughts:

Spoiler:
They're pretty aggressively burning bridges in this movie - both Klaue and Killmonger get killed off, and the supply of heart-shaped herb is destroyed, so, even without Wakanda dropping the veil of secrecy, the traditional way of life of Wakanda is in its final generation. Of course, trying to extend Wakandan tech worldwide may well exhaust the Vibranium supply too. However it shakes out, it's at least moderately world-changing (then again, with Infinity War just around the corner, there could be a fair amount of world-changing anyway)

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:47 pm UTC
by OP Tipping
Great and thoughtful rejoinders, rmsgrey!

Yes, I was surprised by the death of
Spoiler:
Klaue
, not so much
Spoiler:
Killmonger
.
Are we meant to believe that was the entire set of heart shaped herb in the world? Does T'Challa need a regular supply?

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:20 am UTC
by OP Tipping
Fun fact:
the character who plays a young version Forest Whitaker's character is named Denzel Whitaker. He is not related to Forest.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:29 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
OP Tipping wrote:Are we meant to believe that was the entire set of heart shaped herb in the world? Does T'Challa need a regular supply?


We're told at the start of the movie that the heart-shaped herb is specifically created by exposure to vibranium and an unknown period of evolution. Also that it's the secret of the panther-tribe's rule, so it's plausible that it's tightly controlled. If that's not the entire supply, then it's not going to be terribly far off.

As for needing more,
Spoiler:
the only times we've seen T'Challa need more are when he's (voluntarily) had his powers stripped, though that's also when he visits the spirit realm, so more may be needed for that.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:18 pm UTC
by Angua
Can we not discuss spoilers outside of spoiler tags please?

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:50 am UTC
by natraj
having seen this last night i am already ready to go see it again. everything about this was just glorious and oh man the hair, the costumes, the scenery, i want an entire series that is just slice of life set in wakanda so i can drink that world in more.

Spoiler:
it's nice to see a superhero movie where the villain prompts a more interesting conflict from the hero than simply "can i solve this with punching" like obv punching will happen at the climax, that's what happens in a superhero movie and it's great but in this one the villain -- who tbh i would argue at root isn't even killmonger but colonization/white supremacy as a whole -- actually had the hero recognizing that he was right even if going about it horribly and p much the whole future of wakanda will, presumably, change as a result.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:00 am UTC
by Peaceful Whale
:(
Probably won’t be able to watch it for a while, how long until it’s in the $5 theaters?
NO SPOILERS OTHERWISE I WILL LASER YOU HEAD OFF.
Through the earth to wherever you are, so it would be bad.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:34 pm UTC
by pogrmman
I saw it last night with my friends — I quite enjoyed it. Like pretty much all Marvel movies I’ve seen before, I went in to it literally knowing nothing. For the person asking earlier, there are two stingers — one mid-way in the credits, one at the very end (there were quite a few people who left before the first, and even more who left after the first one).

Regarding more spoilery stuff:
Spoiler:
I really enjoyed how the villain had at least decent intentions at heart. Sure, the way he was going to do it was really flawed, but it’s nice to see a villain that doesn’t have just an evil lust to destroy the world. It’s really cool how T’Challa recognizes, at least eventually, that Wakanda does need to go out and do something to help people.

Sure, they are kind of forced to do it by the loss of the heart shaped herb, but I think that T’Challa truly recognizes that they need to do it — why else would he accept the fight with Killmonger in the first place?

I could’ve gone without the Ross character, but they did kind of need somebody to explain who Killmonger was.


Overall, I’m quite impressed. It’s definately one of the better Marvel movies. Like most, it has well done design, but I thought the plot of this one was more interesting than the others I’ve seen. It also had good character development and a decent soundtrack. I’d certainly recommend it.

I’ve got one non-super movie related detail, but I’ll put it in anyway:
Spoiler:
Was the casino the same one in Skyfall? It certainly reminded me of it — what with the subdued, yellowish lighting and the entrance on the upper level that sort of surrounds a pit-like area.


While I haven’t seen all the marvel movies, this one is a strong contender to be the best one (I don’t remember the others all that well).

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:48 pm UTC
by Sizik
Question about the end of movie:
Spoiler:
I don't remember, did Agent Ross make it out alive, or was it supposed to be implied that he dies when the gunship blew up the lab?

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:48 pm UTC
by natraj
Spoiler:
ross does not die in the lab. in the mid credits scene at the un he is there when t'challa is making his speech. i was really glad he did not die too, i thought that was where they were going to go but was very glad they did not.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:13 pm UTC
by Angua
Spoiler:
Yeah, he gives a good smirk when the guy in the audience asks what Wakanda can teach the world.

I'm glad they gave him something to do in the final battle but kept him away from most of the action. Also, I was really glad they had Shuri actually in the thick of it for a while as well, rather than just in the lab. That was really cool.
So much about this movie was so great that I have difficulty putting it into words. I think quite a few white British people so far have only found it ok? I feel like there is a lot about it that is great because it is black that I have a hard time explaining and it reminds me of home, so I can't imagine how much better it is if you are black.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:21 pm UTC
by natraj
Spoiler:
yeah i was glad that he was kind of... there, still competent, but not there to be a white savior in any way at all because this movie didn't need even a hint of that.


and yeah so many things about this movie were just... pure joy. the their central plot dynamic was something that was so important to even see represented. and the way that black women just drove this movie in such a pivotal and well developed way. it was all so, so good.

Spoiler:
i love that killmonger was right -- in concept, but was approaching the problem with the mindset/tools of colonization so his methods were clearly wrong. but fundamentally what he was saying was something wakanda needed to hear and ultimately incorporated -- in their own way, being able to take that and turn it around hopefully in a more whole and productive way as people untouched by colonization who can do so without using that mindset. but the movie never took the approach that either was right or wrong but that they could learn from each other, which i loved.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:50 am UTC
by Zohar
Somewhat related, this made me chuckle.

Watching it tomorrow, can't wait!

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:56 pm UTC
by rmsgrey
Angua wrote:So much about this movie was so great that I have difficulty putting it into words. I think quite a few white British people so far have only found it ok? I feel like there is a lot about it that is great because it is black that I have a hard time explaining and it reminds me of home, so I can't imagine how much better it is if you are black.


I don't know how much is black and how much is US - I get that the issues are real historical/political issues for the US, and particularly for black people in the US, but for me as a white Brit, it comes across as heavy-handed politicking on an irrelevant issue. It's like if a movie set in a hidden kingdom in the Amazon rainforest revolved around industrial relations and was driven by references to Arthur Scargill - it would have real meaning, depth and resonance for people from the UK (particularly anyone old enough to have been paying attention in the early 80s) - but, to the extent it's specific to that time and place in history, it would miss large chunks of the rest of the world.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:20 pm UTC
by Angua
Meh, it's not like Black people aren't subject to racism and lack of media representation in the UK.

We all remember Bongo bongo land from the man who is now our current foreign secretary.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:29 pm UTC
by natraj
yeah i feel like feeling like it is irrelevant has more to do with whiteness, certainly my black british friends have also been excited about this and it isn't like the topics of racism and colonialism/imperialism are not relevant to uk history

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:58 pm UTC
by poxic
Most of the criticism I've read has been from people who don't appreciate how cool it would be to be directly targeted by a major work of entertainment for goddamn once.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:28 pm UTC
by ConMan
Saw this last night. It was a fun film, and I agree that it was good to see the meaningful tension and contrast between the hero and the villain. I could also tell that a lot was going on in relation to black American and English social issues that I'm not so familiar with, so there were layers that I missed out on but that I'm extremely glad were covered (and also glad to hear from places like this that they were being covered with an appropriate amount of respect).

I was slightly worried, going in, that one of two things might happen - one, that the movie would be as goofy as some of the more recent Marvel films (Ragnarok, Guardians), or two, that the producers would be so worried about treading on thin ice that there would be barely any humour. I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was an amount of humour that lines up with some of the earlier MCU films - enough that the film didn't feel dry, but not so much that it felt like it was trying to be a comedy.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:50 pm UTC
by Zohar
Saw it yesterday, it was highly enjoyable. The film was was gorgeous, too, and the soundtrack doesn't sound like every single other Marvel film. Can we have an hour of just T'Challa getting pranked by his sister? Shuri was definitely the best part of the film for me. I found it funny everyone talked really slow just to make sure the audience would understand the accent, but I appreciate pretty much everyone has a non-American accent.

A couple of things made me go "Huh?" though. It's great that the villain had a good point, but I don't feel like the movie necessarily acknowledges it. I also thought the solution they found at the end was a bit silly.
Spoiler:
Opening a science academy and buying your way to equality? Sure, distributing weapons may not be the best idea, but why not give everyone those awesome shield?


Also the hereditary rule system is just ridiculous. Have they never had shitty kings in the past? Have they never considered they might be a better way? I wouldn't have minded it too much if it wasn't such a big part of the plot. I felt similarly about
Spoiler:
the loss of the heart flower. You have the world's only supply stored in a room that has torches on fire? You didn't have any sort of backup?
Maybe they'll bring it back at some point, because that just seems negligent. What if one of the flowers gets some sort of disease or mold or whatever and now you've lost the entire colony forever?


Observation (not complaint), minor spoiler:
Spoiler:
Shuri gave T'Challa those silent shoes but they never came into play. I don't mind it but usually you expect the gadgets the hero receives to be used throughout the movie.


Overall these are relatively minor complaints. And ugh, everyone in this movie is so beautiful too.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:23 pm UTC
by Angua
I really liked Shuri and T'Challa's chemistry. They were great together.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:51 pm UTC
by Zohar
Angua wrote:I really liked Shuri and T'Challa's chemistry. They were great together.

She was such a refreshing character in a film filled with gravitas (not that the gravitas was bad).

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:16 am UTC
by EdgarJPublius
Zohar wrote:Observation (not complaint), minor spoiler:
Spoiler:
Shuri gave T'Challa those silent shoes but they never came into play. I don't mind it but usually you expect the gadgets the hero receives to be used throughout the movie.


Spoiler:
I was definitely expecting it to come into play during the climatic battle with the sonic thingys that disabled the vibranium suits


Did anyone else notice:
Spoiler:
Ross's description of Killmonger reminded me of the 'Winter Soldier' program that Bucky was a part of and Zemo used to lure the Avengers into his trap in Civil War.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:02 am UTC
by Liri
It was so good!

Spoiler:
Yeah, I was afraid Ross would die. And that Okoye would die - she had the vibe of characters that always die nobly.


The music was great.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:39 pm UTC
by Weeks
natraj wrote:yeah i feel like feeling like it is irrelevant has more to do with whiteness, certainly my black british friends have also been excited about this and it isn't like the topics of racism and colonialism/imperialism are not relevant to uk history
Spoiler:
It even has the line "the sun will never set on Wakanda".
Extremely good movie. Apparently since we're entering a new marvel movie phase, some contracts are ending and characters aren't going to show up anymore, like Stark or Cap, so we're probably going to see more T'Challa, which is fricking fantastic. Hope that means more Okoye/Shuri/Nakia as well. They were all marvelous (no pun intended)

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:23 pm UTC
by ConMan
I'm pretty sure that Shuri is going to show up in Infinity War, which I really hope involves more than a quick cameo.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:24 pm UTC
by Zohar
I want an entire movie dedicated to Shuri inventing various gadgets for different heroes and being awesome.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:26 pm UTC
by Angua
I feel like with Thor Ragnarok and Black Panther, Marvel has had a run at imperialism recently. This can only be a good thing.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:41 pm UTC
by charliepanayi
Zohar wrote:I want an entire movie dedicated to Shuri inventing various gadgets for different heroes and being awesome.


She should be the MCU equivalent of Q. Or Letitia Wright should take over from Ben Whishaw when he stops being Q in the James Bond franchise.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:44 pm UTC
by Angua
I can't wait until she meets Tony Stark and every time he tries to be snarky she just stupes at him and then shows him up.

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:50 pm UTC
by Pfhorrest
Finally saw this this weekend and Shuri was one of my favorite parts too.

Where exactly in Thor Ragnarok did they tackle imperialism?

Re: Black Panther

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:10 pm UTC
by Angua
I thought it was pretty obvious with all the talk about Asgard being an empire built by war, but you don't have to take my word for it... (btw I just found these links by googling Thor Ragnarok imperialism because I'm not always great at expressing these things).
Spoiler:


edit: This is another good article that deals with the tag of colonialism rather than imperialism but they're pretty much the same anyways.