Avengers: Infinity War

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mosc
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby mosc » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:36 pm UTC

14,000,605... is it possible this number was on purpose by a mathematician who worked out the combination of possibilities of half of the super heroes getting put in the soulstone and setting it with exactly the right half? N! possibilities plus this or that... I dunno. It's possible that's the right number but it does seem rather round.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:44 pm UTC

mosc wrote:14,000,605... is it possible this number was on purpose by a mathematician who worked out the combination of possibilities of half of the super heroes getting put in the soulstone and setting it with exactly the right half? N! possibilities plus this or that... I dunno. It's possible that's the right number but it does seem rather round.

I did try some things to see if I could reverse engineer the number, but didn't get anywhere.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby OP Tipping » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:44 am UTC

It only just now occurs to me that Thanos actually went backwards because of Loki's exploits on Earth. He gave Loki the scepter containing the Mind Stone so that he could fetch the Space Stone. Loki failed to secure the latter and lost the former!

Given Ebony Maw's comments about there being consequences for failing Thanos, it's a wonder he didn't just kill Loki in A:IW as soon as he handed over the Tesseract.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Sableagle » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:25 am UTC

Possible Doctor Strange stopped looking when he'd found a way to win, rather than keep looking and risk forgetting which one it had been.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:06 pm UTC

OP Tipping wrote:It only just now occurs to me that Thanos actually went backwards because of Loki's exploits on Earth. He gave Loki the scepter containing the Mind Stone so that he could fetch the Space Stone. Loki failed to secure the latter and lost the former!

Given Ebony Maw's comments about there being consequences for failing Thanos, it's a wonder he didn't just kill Loki in A:IW as soon as he handed over the Tesseract.


Yes, he lost control of one Stone, but he also got two Stones into close proximity, which may have helped trigger the others resurfacing. If the Stones want to be unified, then getting enough together is a good way to motivate the others to become more active.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:49 pm UTC

OP Tipping wrote:It only just now occurs to me that Thanos actually went backwards because of Loki's exploits on Earth. He gave Loki the scepter containing the Mind Stone so that he could fetch the Space Stone. Loki failed to secure the latter and lost the former!

Given Ebony Maw's comments about there being consequences for failing Thanos, it's a wonder he didn't just kill Loki in A:IW as soon as he handed over the Tesseract.


Yeah. It makes sense that he views Loki as kind of a worthless failure. Though in fairness, at the time, I don't think he had the gauntlet, so it might have been that the space stone was much more essential to his plans. He does utilize teleportation extremely extensively once he has it, making it a very desirable early stone to acquire.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:27 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
OP Tipping wrote:It only just now occurs to me that Thanos actually went backwards because of Loki's exploits on Earth. He gave Loki the scepter containing the Mind Stone so that he could fetch the Space Stone. Loki failed to secure the latter and lost the former!

Given Ebony Maw's comments about there being consequences for failing Thanos, it's a wonder he didn't just kill Loki in A:IW as soon as he handed over the Tesseract.


Yeah. It makes sense that he views Loki as kind of a worthless failure. Though in fairness, at the time, I don't think he had the gauntlet, so it might have been that the space stone was much more essential to his plans. He does utilize teleportation extremely extensively once he has it, making it a very desirable early stone to acquire.


In the Comics, not that the other stones are weak by any means, but their effects are very limited if you don't possess the Power Stone to operate as a reactor for the rest, to power their abilities and make them greater - moving about a solar system becomes moving about the universe, affecting one person's mind becomes affecting an army's and so on.

Since we never saw him grab the Power Stone nor did we see any of the stones really utilized without it, it's hard to say if that holds true in the MCU.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:05 pm UTC

Spoiler:
what would have happened if Hela, Goddess of Death, hadn't been stopped? I bet she could have beaten Thanos before he had all the infinity stones. Maybe she wouldn't like him killing half the universe that she wanted to rule. Or perhaps they would team up. I feel like she'd be threatened by him though.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:19 pm UTC

Why would they need to fight? I think they'd get along famously.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby SDK » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:24 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:Goddess of Death

Or his love interest.

(This is what I was expecting when she was first introduced in Thor Ragnarok)
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby OP Tipping » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:22 am UTC

Watched again, and on reflection, I think it is kind of a weakness of the film that most of the deaths don't relate to people's involvement in the conflict.

I realise that is a core concept of the plot, but consider: Peter Parker would have died even if he had stayed home eqting chips. His death would have been more impactful if he'd died in combat so that it would have been on Tony's head for failing to protect him.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:51 am UTC

Not 'died' but 'gone', is how I saw it. (With various connotations arising, which could be being written well or as a total get-out, but we've yet to see.)

And the consider (if you know it yet) Scott Lang's situation. Or, if my headcanon is true (though the apparent self-realisation of Nick Fury and a few others works against it), he's just no longer where his mid-credits 'team' are. Maybe or maybe not where the post-credit compatriot is.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby OP Tipping » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:36 am UTC

Fair points.


One other thing that occurred to me:

If someone is engaged to be married, would you normally say "Congratulations on the wedding"? To my mind, that's the kind of thing you'd say _after_ the wedding. Before the wedding, you'd say, "Congratulations on the engagement".

So is Strange in the NY scene coming from the future?

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby cphite » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:18 pm UTC

I thought the whole paging Captain Marvel thing at then end was weird.

If you have access to Captain Marvel via pager, why wasn't she called the previous several times the Earth was in grave danger? Alien army on the verge of conquering New York... nah, let's not bug Carol. Sentient robot wants to wipe out humanity... she's probably busy. Big purple dude wants to wipe out half of all the life in the universe... okay, that sounds serious enough, but let's wait until he actually does it...

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Zohar » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:28 pm UTC

I'm willing to be patient until the Captain Marvel movie to see what that's about. I'm assuming there's a restriction on her availability - she's somewhere very inaccessible or that requires some sort of sacrifice to get from.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:30 pm UTC

Well, all of Infinity War happened in like a day so far as Earth is concerned, and Fury wasn't involved in the earlier bits. So he may not have fully understood what was going on due to being engaged with something else/out of the loop.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:44 pm UTC

I've gathered (not sure where, could be as unreliable as someone else's headcanon or actual feeder publicity) that Cpt Marvel's film will be some-years-prior prequelish, ending with something like "and now I've got to go and do some things to make sure K9 meets with Aslan over at The Mended Drum, before Zephrum Cochrane invents sliced bread, and thus prevent the Goa'uld from stepping on a butterfly so that a Monolith doesn't get uncovered before the plans to its exhaust pipe are smuggled out in Ted "Theodore" Logan's head and one of Valley Forge's biodomes is discovered lying on a sandy beach by Nemo riding a dragon - but if you need me, here's this thing, just whistle…"

Some of that might not be right, though. But I think it's supposed to just be a 'normal' day for Fury (perhaps less gunfire and vehicle destruction), until he realises he needs to dig out the beacon thing that he's had for yonks.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Zohar » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:27 pm UTC

The Captain Marvel movie will be set in the 1990s and include a digitally younger-looking (youthanized?) Samuel L Jackson.
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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:48 pm UTC

Firstly, there's a continuum of threats, so it's not like there's a natural cut-off - for example, aliens invading downtown New York is only a little up from aliens invading a small town in New Mexico - better call in Captain Marvel for that one too. It's just a variation of "why don't they call in the Avengers for every threat?"

Secondly, this is Nick Fury here, who never plays his entire hand (wherever he can avoid it), and always holds something back for emergencies. So far, everything had been handled without needing to call in Captain Marvel. This is the first time something hasn't been handled by regular field agents, or the hero(es) on the spot, or the entire Avengers, or all the available resources on hand. So, here's an emergency where everything short of Captain Marvel has been tried and failed, so it's time to call her.

Thirdly, if there's a non-trivial travel time involved, there's a good chance that whatever's happening will have resolved (one way or another) before Captain Marvel can show up. This time, she'll at least be useful for the cleanup...

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby cphite » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:18 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Firstly, there's a continuum of threats, so it's not like there's a natural cut-off - for example, aliens invading downtown New York is only a little up from aliens invading a small town in New Mexico - better call in Captain Marvel for that one too. It's just a variation of "why don't they call in the Avengers for every threat?"


The invasion of New York was a staging point for an invasion of the entire planet, backed by a Norse god armed with a device known to pose a global threat. The government recognized the threat as serious enough to launch a nuke at the city in order to prevent it from spreading... so it's a bit beyond a single tiny town in New Mexico. And even before the actual invasion begins, the Avengers are falling apart as a team... would have been a perfect time to ping someone.

Secondly, this is Nick Fury here, who never plays his entire hand (wherever he can avoid it), and always holds something back for emergencies. So far, everything had been handled without needing to call in Captain Marvel. This is the first time something hasn't been handled by regular field agents, or the hero(es) on the spot, or the entire Avengers, or all the available resources on hand. So, here's an emergency where everything short of Captain Marvel has been tried and failed, so it's time to call her.


An invasion intended to conquer Earth, and an AI intent on destroying humanity, both seem like candidates for calling in the biggest guns you have.

Thirdly, if there's a non-trivial travel time involved, there's a good chance that whatever's happening will have resolved (one way or another) before Captain Marvel can show up. This time, she'll at least be useful for the cleanup...


Fair point... but if we're following canon, she can get to Earth from wherever pretty dang quick - and Fury would know that. They've already established in the movies that flying across the galaxy is a thing, and not even that big a deal.

Eh, anyway - it'll be fun however they work her into the story :D

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby speising » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:54 pm UTC

Anyway, wherever she is, it's unlikely she isn't aware of what's happening across the whole universe currently. So pinging her seems superfluous.

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:11 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:Firstly, there's a continuum of threats, so it's not like there's a natural cut-off - for example, aliens invading downtown New York is only a little up from aliens invading a small town in New Mexico - better call in Captain Marvel for that one too. It's just a variation of "why don't they call in the Avengers for every threat?"


The invasion of New York was a staging point for an invasion of the entire planet, backed by a Norse god armed with a device known to pose a global threat. The government recognized the threat as serious enough to launch a nuke at the city in order to prevent it from spreading... so it's a bit beyond a single tiny town in New Mexico. And even before the actual invasion begins, the Avengers are falling apart as a team... would have been a perfect time to ping someone.

Secondly, this is Nick Fury here, who never plays his entire hand (wherever he can avoid it), and always holds something back for emergencies. So far, everything had been handled without needing to call in Captain Marvel. This is the first time something hasn't been handled by regular field agents, or the hero(es) on the spot, or the entire Avengers, or all the available resources on hand. So, here's an emergency where everything short of Captain Marvel has been tried and failed, so it's time to call her.


An invasion intended to conquer Earth, and an AI intent on destroying humanity, both seem like candidates for calling in the biggest guns you have.


When it came to the invasion of New York, they did escalate significantly over what they sent to New Mexico. Phil Coulson, Hawkeye, and some nameless agents for the latter; half a dozen extremely powerful individuals to handle the former. And Fury did tell the World Security Council that the nuke was an over-reaction to the situation...

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:06 pm UTC

("We have a Donk Hulk" does already seem like a fair escalation, of course. ;))


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