Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby mosc » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:27 pm UTC

Eh, it's cliche at this point. It was clever and interesting back in season one to have a hero finding his identity against the contrast of a "normie" best friend but at this point, it's more like "Hold on Hero, let's remember that we have this tacky conflict between us that's been going on for four seasons. We are supposed to act like we think powers make us better than other people and have some conflict between us whenever there's the slightest power imbalance." Hero stronger than Ando? Hero's a prick. Ando stronger than hero? Ando's a prick. Their powers in flux? Constant bitching about who's cooler than who. Yawn.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vanguard » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:36 am UTC

Hiro was my favorite character in season 1 (before Noah, or "HRG" at the time, introduced himself) but he's proven to be a complete screwup in everything he does. And now he's being a straight up dick.

"Don't open the safe"
*opens safe*

Sigh.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:17 am UTC

I think Hiro peaked at calling Nathan a villain. From there, it has been screw-up after screw-up. The feudal Japan story was poetic, but way too long, and Hiro was really stupid through most of it. He was great in Season 1 because it was entertaining watching him 'meta-game' while the plot was still building. Now it is getting in the way. An alternate Hiro character development path:
Spoiler:
After averting the stupid "Ando kills me" future, and after getting jerked around by everyone they have ever met, they figure out they can really only trust each other. After Hiro loses his power, he falls back on the whole "I don't need my powers" schtick, and Ando gets to use his powers a bit. They collectively plan to do the whole bait thing from last episode, fully knowing that Hiro's time stop confers them an unbeatable advantage if they need it. Ando gets moved to storage, but Hiro can't make his power work and a lowly grunt doesn't have clearance, so he can't follow him. He changes out of his combat gear and has to save Ando without his power. We would see what he does after that next Monday.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vanguard » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:05 am UTC

Funny how some of us could be better writers for the show than the actual hired, writers.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Mo0man » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:59 am UTC

You know what makes me sad? I thought we would be tasting Bryan Fuller magic, but it seems like that isn't the case
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby lardy » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:27 am UTC

I do feel like things have improved quite a bit in the last few episodes since he's been listed in the credits. Maybe it's a case of attempting to polish a turd with this volume, with how dull it got midway through.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:47 am UTC

The one episode he wrote was pretty good though. At this point I'm hoping that he came back too late to this season to have significant creative control, but will have a bigger role next season.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:51 pm UTC

Bubbles McCoy wrote:The one episode he wrote was one of the best goddamn episodes the series has ever had.

Fixed that for you. One of these days, I want to see Bryan Fuller and Joss Whedon collaborate and write a whole series themselves (for NBC, not Fox).
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vanguard » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

Joss Whedon on Heroes? My god it'd become the best show on earth.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby hideki101 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:17 am UTC

Vanguard wrote:Joss Whedon on Heroes? My god it'd become the best show on earth.

Joss Whedon on Heroes with a decent special effects budget would be the best show on earth. Why must all the cool powers be regulated to the comics?
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Bubbles McCoy » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:41 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:
Bubbles McCoy wrote:The one episode he wrote was one of the best goddamn episodes the series has ever had since the departure of Bryan Fuller.

Fixed that for you. One of these days, I want to see Bryan Fuller and Joss Whedon collaborate and write a whole series themselves (for NBC, not Fox).

In retrospect, I think neither of us went far enough.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Lumpy » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:48 pm UTC

Now that Sylar has that disintegration ability, he doesn't have to leave the body behind. He just needs to turn the body and the blood to solid gold, then snap his fingers and disintegrate it. Except Sylar clearly wants the evidence to be left behind.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby mosc » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:48 am UTC

Sylar can turn things to gold. Damnit, this show sucks for making me forget things like that!
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vieto » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:05 am UTC

Lumpy wrote:Now that Sylar has that disintegration ability, he doesn't have to leave the body behind. He just needs to turn the body and the blood to solid gold, then snap his fingers and disintegrate it. Except Sylar clearly wants the evidence to be left behind.


Why can't he just liquefy the gold into gold bricks, like what he got from that other guy who can liquefy metal? Then he'd have his own fort Knox!

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Torvaun » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:17 am UTC

He lost the liquify power when he got the Shanti virus.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby thatguy » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:33 am UTC

Yeah, power resets are a bitch. We need like a goddamned flow chart.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Aikanaro » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:50 am UTC

Well, if they don't (finally) kill him off entirely or SOMETHING soon, they're gonna have to hit him with another one. Shapeshifting is on the list of powers that it's just too damn dangerous for him to have, letting him get close to almost any target and lure them away from others.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Lumpy » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:02 am UTC

Hey, if Sylar ever met Claude indoors, he could turn the carpet to dust and track his footprints, then make a fist clenching movement (because writers always have telekinesis-users mime their actions) while telekinetically grabbing onto his ankles.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:08 am UTC

Unfortunately, it is unlikely that Chris Eccleston will return to act for Heroes.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Lumpy » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:33 am UTC

Actually...

Spoiler:
imbd says he appears in the next episode as Claude

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Mo0man » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:44 am UTC

Couldn't he just do that whole "telekinesis wave" thing he did against Peter?
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:14 pm UTC

Lumpy wrote:Actually...

Spoiler:
imbd says he appears in the next episode as Claude

FUCK. YES.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vieto » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:34 pm UTC

I like Claude.

He's one of the few characters that uses common sense.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby sugarhyped » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:17 am UTC

Lumpy wrote:Actually...

Spoiler:
imbd says he appears in the next episode as Claude


Spoiler:
goddamn awesome. i've been wanting him back since forever. hopefully he's a main character because the ep is called "an invisible thread"


i maintain that they need more likable girls. i can't think think of one off the top of my head... nope...
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby quintopia » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:02 am UTC

WEEEEEEEAAAAAAK!

(Also: water girl. . .she's the same Tracy right?)

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Torvaun » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:04 am UTC

Unknown if she's Tracy or Barbara.

And I didn't see Claude all episode! Although maybe that's the point...
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby sugarhyped » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:09 am UTC

^goddamn you! its not for a couple hours for me. i guess i wont get my hopes up...
unless you're tricking me into not expecting anything!! :D
I doubt thats true but I hope so!
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Delass » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:06 am UTC

uh how TERRIBLE an idea was that? sylar touched everything in that office, and the new nathan still has all sylars powers, including the memories from touch thing, and now nathan-sylar-thing is touching everything in the office. I get it, they cant kill sylar, but could they atleast stop killing him except not quite because they left or created a stupid or obvious loophole. Atleast chuck was pretty awesome.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:37 pm UTC

I thought it was kinda appropriate after the whole "I am Sylar" thing.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Aikanaro » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:54 pm UTC

Couldn't they have had Peter impersonate Nathan, then had Nathan "vanish?"

Actually, my IDEAL set of steps:
1: Tranq Sylar.
2: Peter copies Sylar's BASE power.
3: Peter does the brain-pokey with Sylar, gets all his OTHER powers. (skip this if he can get all the powers by copying, but it seemed like he couldn't).
4: INCINERATE Sylar.
5: Peter poses as Nathan, meets with the Pres, explains away everything.
6: Have "Nathan" vanish somewhere, or kill himself to atone for what he's done, or whatever. Remove him from the picture.
7: Either Peter copies someone else to wipe away Sylar's base power, OR, since apparently Parkman is a good therapist now, have him mindwipe away the bad urges that come with the base power.
8: PROFIT LOGIC!

EDIT: Almost forgot: EPOCH FAIL for yet ANOTHER major fight shown OFF SCREEN. WHAT THE HELL?!
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vanguard » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:42 pm UTC

I haven't -watched- it yet but I read the entire synopsis.

I don't think the Sylar-Nathan thing is going to work for terribly long.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby rheakith » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:58 pm UTC

The very last scene really leads me to believe that Sylar/Nathan is going to need constant mind wipes by Parkman to suppress any Sylar urges he gets. Either that, or those little Sylar things are what will keep him in Nathan's head, since he didn't talk to Angela for weeks because he "didn't feel like [him]self," and then the clock fixing seemed to make that go away.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Chen » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:38 pm UTC

These people really don't think before they act. At very worst after dealing with the Pres have Nathan/Sylar's plane crash or have a car accident or something and make sure he's dead for good. How ridiculously risky is it to leave him around?

Also how the hell did that fight between Nathan, Peter and Sylar even work? He blasted one of them with electricity as they went in. As far as I know, neither of them had any powers to keep them from just being fried by that. Peter apparently only stole shapeshifting from him (since he wasn't healing) so I really don't see how that fight made any sense. Nathan and Peter should have both been pretty much dead shortly after it started.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vanguard » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:53 pm UTC

Okay, watched it now.

Chen wrote:Also how the hell did that fight between Nathan, Peter and Sylar even work? He blasted one of them with electricity as they went in. As far as I know, neither of them had any powers to keep them from just being fried by that. Peter apparently only stole shapeshifting from him (since he wasn't healing) so I really don't see how that fight made any sense. Nathan and Peter should have both been pretty much dead shortly after it started.


I think that's why they hid it so they could form the end of the battle themselves.

I think the way Nathan died sucked, it should have been a lot more epic. Head smashed into a wall or something.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby aaron » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:08 pm UTC

please note that nathan has "died" at the end of every season, and it's hardly surprising.

(flying up w/peter to get lolnuked, getting shot, getting throat slit)

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Lumpy » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:26 pm UTC

I think this counts as a third Sylar "death" at the end of a volume, too.

So is Matt substituting for the Haitian now? That guy would have been useful for erasing Sylar's memories. It's been a trend so far for Matt to just assimilate the abilities of people that are killed off the show or just stop ever mentioned again, but only after they've already gone.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby VannA » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:39 am UTC

This show has been thoroughly mimicing the worst of the print comics in every detail. (Lack of consistancy, clarity, rebooting of stories, changing character definitions, etc, etc)

Does that mean it has succeeding in its purpose?

I don't even know why I watch it any more.

Nor do I know how a fuck-up like this can still be running, but I lose my T:SCC and Dollhouse.

It doesn't even have the premise of something like Fringe to give it validity.
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Vieto » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:16 am UTC

Noo! They got rid of Sylar :shock: in the most mis-matched way possible.

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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:39 am UTC

They made it clear at the end with the clock that Sylar isn't gone for good.

Nathan probably is though once Sylar comes back, unless they decide Claire's blood can bring other people back from the dead again. (It would be cool if Sylar alternates between being all Sylar and all Nathan for a while after he comes back, but I doubt the writers could pull it of, or would even try.)
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Re: Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby sugarhyped » Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:08 am UTC

i got my hopes up... no eccleston! i was hoping he'd at least be in the volume 5 preview.

@rheakith : i agree that Parkman should be thinking "you are nathan" anytime he sees sylar.

i know there are a lot of things that can be picked at but one of the first that stood out for me is Ando's power... I feel like people(characters, not writers but maybe them too) seem to forget that his real power is amplifying other peoples powers so he maybe could have super-charged Hiro so he wouldn't have had to put much effort. But then that would have taken from the story-line.

I wish it would be practical for the story for the characters to think logically.

I think water girl is Tracy and not Barbara... Just because the liquidity is so close to Tracy's and she has reason to go after those people.

sadly I'll still probably watch next volume... especially since they put it on hulu.
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