Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

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Heroes! (No spoiler tags for episodes already aired in US)

Postby Alisto » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:20 pm UTC

This is the thread in which to discuss the current plot of the show. We will be going off of the US release schedule, so if you're in another country, stay out if you don't want to be spoiled.

Rules

1. You may discuss anything from an episode once it has aired. If you're getting information about future episodes from other sources (e.g. interviews, articles, etc.), place them in a spoiler box. Speculation is ok, but outside information is not.

2. The online comics are also open for discussion since they often give information for the story. If you're not reading the comics on the NBC site, that's your own fault.
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Re: Heroes: Here there be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:29 pm UTC

that's "thar be spoilers" and props to you my good man. I'm now on the first page for post totals, huzzah!
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Alisto » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:37 pm UTC

Ok, let's get this going.

-I am very disappointed with Nathan's return. The fact that he's alive cheapens his "sacrifice" at the end of last season.

-I like the Mohinder/Bennett thing, but I can't see them getting away with it for long.

-I think I'm the only person who likes Molly. The "boogey man" intrigues me.

-I want to know more about this group that's coming after the older generation of Heroes. I wish we had seen what Sulu's power was.

-I like Parkman.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Belial » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:35 am UTC

I'm disappointed with Nathan's return, but....there's something going on there. The scorched face in the mirror* makes me think it's not really Nathan, or that something else weird is afoot.

And I also like Parkman, but I wish he'd stop being such a little bitch.

*Unless that was just a mental image thing, which is sloppy on the part of the director, considering the ever-present possibility of illusions or mind abilities.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Alisto » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:45 am UTC

To me, the explanation I want to jump to is that he was seeing his brother as he last saw him. In the context, it seems like that's what would make the most sense. However, in continuity, it makes NO sense.

1. Peter should not have been harmed by a power he was himself generating.

2. Given some explanation for him being harmed by the blast, how would Nathan have ever seen him that way? How could Nathan have been close enough when the burning and scarring were sustained to see the injuries but still survive?

3. If Nathan saw the injuries after the explosion, why the fuck didn't he bring Peter back with him? ...THAT might explain something. Nathan flies Peter up, Peter makes him drop him, Nathan hauls ass. Nathan goes back to look for Peter and finds him looking like that. For some reason, Nathan leaves him there and it's that act which haunts him.

In other news, who the hell put Peter in that truck and why?
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Jack Saladin » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:50 am UTC

I figured he's just getting depressed and guilty over Peter's death, and the image in the mirror was just a guilty imagination; He helped cause his brother explode, hence he is haunted by images of a horribly disfigured Peter. I don't think there's anything 'superpower' to it.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:15 am UTC

... is there anywhere online I can get this show? I'm in Japan with no TV.
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hī willað ēow tō gafole gāras syllan,
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þā heregeatu þe ēow æt hilde ne dēah.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Nath » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:38 am UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:... is there anywhere online I can get this show? I'm in Japan with no TV.

http://www.nbc.com/heroes

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Jack Saladin » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:11 am UTC

There are plenty of places all over the internet where you can DL HD quality episodes very shortly after they've aired. I'd give you a link, but it doesn't feel very mod-like and they aren't particularly hard to find anyway.

Or you could turn to Teh Torrents.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Okita » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:43 am UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:... is there anywhere online I can get this show? I'm in Japan with no TV.


I hope you aren't missing all the great Japanese tv that's out there in Japan...

Nodame Cantabile! Wooo!
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:54 am UTC

Fearbears?! wrote:I figured he's just getting depressed and guilty over Peter's death, and the image in the mirror was just a guilty imagination; He helped cause his brother explode, hence he is haunted by images of a horribly disfigured Peter. I don't think there's anything 'superpower' to it.
Yeah, the picture was a burned-faced Peter. However, yes, there is NO WAY Nathan did not get burned, it just wouldn't make any fucking sense. UNLESS he got some of Peter's healing power. OR it's nto Nathan. I like the theory that maybe they merged a little from the nuclearosity (a common comic book device). That would explain how Nathan got healed, and why he's seeing Peter's reflection. ::shrug:: Also I think Ma Patrelli's power is a bit of pre-cognition. That's why Peter had it. Also, Sulu isn't dead yet and neither is Ma Patrelli, I'm sure they'll use their powers before they die.

I don't like Molly because she's the same old boring precocious nonsense. I also don't like the South America twins. At least, the girl can't act her way out of a paper bag, and she's just Nikki/Jessica all over again so far.

MAN! I wish you all lived here so we could watch together!
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Okita » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:01 am UTC

CatProximity wrote:
Fearbears?! wrote:I figured he's just getting depressed and guilty over Peter's death, and the image in the mirror was just a guilty imagination; He helped cause his brother explode, hence he is haunted by images of a horribly disfigured Peter. I don't think there's anything 'superpower' to it.
Yeah, the picture was a burned-faced Peter. However, yes, there is NO WAY Nathan did not get burned, it just wouldn't make any fucking sense. UNLESS he got some of Peter's healing power. OR it's nto Nathan. I like the theory that maybe they merged a little from the nuclearosity (a common comic book device). That would explain how Nathan got healed, and why he's seeing Peter's reflection. ::shrug:: Also I think Ma Patrelli's power is a bit of pre-cognition. That's why Peter had it. Also, Sulu isn't dead yet and neither is Ma Patrelli, I'm sure they'll use their powers before they die.

I don't like Molly because she's the same old boring precocious nonsense. I also don't like the South America twins. At least, the girl can't act her way out of a paper bag, and she's just Nikki/Jessica all over again so far.


Technically, Peter could have taken Linderman's power sub-conciously and used that. Or maybe Nathan threw Peter and tried to fly away to avoid the blast?

Anyway, Peter's shown evidence of powers from people we don't know (which kind of makes him a crappy deus ex machina). As for Sulu... I wonder what kind of power allows him to jump from the top a building.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:03 am UTC

Has he? I suppose from being near Sylar and getting powers we don't know Sylar has. I don't know, I don't recall Peter actually pulling out anything we don't even know Sylar has. Also I don't remember Peter ever being near Linderman, was he?

Also I love how Heroes takes the opposite approach from say DUNE, where remembering what you don't have anymore makes you weak, but that's a very modern theme, now that we all live in comfortable surroundings where we don't have much to fear, sentimentality is harmless and generally makes us better people, so long as we don't drown in it.

I like how clear they've made it that killing Linderman, Sulu and Ma Patrelli aren't enough to bring down the whole plan, that the others are still out there, and that killing well manicured man and Betty doesn't mean the company's gone.

Still, Linderman better fucking actually still be alive.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Okita » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:06 am UTC

Well he got energy blast powers because he used that in the premiere.

Y'know... Simone's dad was one of the League of Old, no? So Peter should have gotten a power from him too?
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:08 am UTC

Okita wrote:Well he got energy blast powers because he used that in the premiere.

Y'know... Simone's dad was one of the League of Old, no? So Peter should have gotten a power from him too?
true enough, there is the theory that the premonitions are from him...I'd forgotten.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Alisto » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:16 am UTC

I don't believe Peter was ever near Linderman.

The dreaming premonitions are assumed to have come from Deveroux.

The energy blast could have been a manifestation of Ted's radiation power.

And sorry, Cat, but Linderman is toast.

On the bright side, new episode in 3 days!
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:43 am UTC

Oh come on, they can bring anyone back whenever and however they want. It's Heroes for hqwagads sake.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby william » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:36 pm UTC

CatProximity wrote:Oh come on, they can bring anyone back whenever and however they want. It's Heroes for hqwagads sake.

it's fhqwhgads. And Heroes isn't the type of show to bring people back from the dead. Nathan and Peter however were never shown to die.

Linderman is dead, just as dead as Charlie is. And Peter's energy-blast power was clearly the "burning bright" that Ted Sprague had.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:54 pm UTC

william wrote:
CatProximity wrote:Oh come on, they can bring anyone back whenever and however they want. It's Heroes for hqwagads sake.

it's fhqwhgads.


I know it's fhqwhgads, but I was using it as part of "for gods sake" so I figured "for hqwagads sake" would get my point across a little more clearly.
"for fhqwagads sake" wasn't what I was trying to say, but rather "for hqwagads sake" try it out loud, then maybe you'll get it.

It wouldn't be bringing Linderman back from the dead, just proving that his powers to heal others works on himself, and it's quite possible he chose to go into hiding and decided the world thinking he was dead was A.O.K. All I'm saying is, it's comic book fiction and anything is possible.
DO I BELIEVE they'll bring back Linderman? No. But I DO beleive it is QUITE a possible thing they COULD if they so chose DO.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Yakk » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:58 pm UTC

Nathan could have flown at super sonic speeds, then thrown Peter away...

Or, as you may have noted, Sylar isn't dead (trail of blood leading into a manhole? come on...), and Sylar in the alternate history hid as Nathan. This, however, does not explain Sylar seeing Peter's scarred face -- so throw that one out.

Peter is unlikely to die -- his own nuke wouldn't kill him, and he could probably regenerate any falling damage. I assume Peter blew up because he got the hard to control energy emitting power twice over -- once from Ted, and once from Sylar -- which made him go critical.

Peter has met a number of supers whose powers he has not expressed, including the Haitian. Possibly his memory wipe was caused by that -- or maybe regenerating most of your brain costs you a huge chunk of your memories. How he got in a crate in Ireland marked as iPods...

George Takai's power (Aka, Hiro Sr.) probably has something to do with swords -- he taught Hiro how to use a sword in a ridiculously short period of time, and he said "I need a sword to defend myself".
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Alisto » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:49 pm UTC

Sylar did not get Candice's powers in the current timeline.

I think we simply don't have enough information to make any predictions or reason anything out. I am eagerly awaiting Monday.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Yakk » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:24 pm UTC

Alisto wrote:Sylar did not get Candice's powers in the current timeline.

I think we simply don't have enough information to make any predictions or reason anything out. I am eagerly awaiting Monday.


Hmm -- and he can't fly, which would make faking Nathan tricky.

But 4 months have passed.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Jack Saladin » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:58 pm UTC

George Takai's power (Aka, Hiro Sr.) probably has something to do with swords -- he taught Hiro how to use a sword in a ridiculously short period of time, and he said "I need a sword to defend myself".


I always thought it'd be super longevity, but since this English fellow has popped up who knows what's going on.

On Nathan; I think he just flew up really high (the dude can break the sound barrier here), dropped Peter, and zoomed off. Now he feels guilty for his part in the plot, and for letting Peter explode and, as I said before, now can't stop thinking about badly burnt Peter. I don't think there's more to it than that.

I'm curious to see what power this new villain will have - Peter and Sylar pretty much got the most powerful abilities you can immediately think of. It'd have to be something pretty unique to top that, maybe some other method of combining powers.

Also I predict Sylar to show up again, either as a spanner in the works or as a henchman to the central villain. He's pretty much the only character that can hope to counter Peter at all (and vice versa, they're both pretty overpowered compared to the rest), unless Peters kryptonite turns up this season.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby knight427 » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:38 am UTC

Nakamura-san may have some learning/teaching powers that allowed him to master most any mortal skill and perhaps pass that knowledge on.

One random idea I had was that he staged his death to happen in front of Ando. But that seems unlikely since there is a body to ID splattered in the sidewalk.

Also, the identity of the killer was suggested to be one of the 9. But he seemed to move like a young man.

I've been thinking about that S symbol which has appeared all over the place. It always represents evil except in relation to Kensei. But that symbol seems to belong to the sword maker who originally armed Kensei to defend the village. Some how it makes a transition from representing a great hero to representing an evil unrevealed power. Note that Nathan had it on a necklace.

I'm hoping Hiro gives up on Kensei and takes the mission upon himself.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Jack Saladin » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:54 am UTC

I don't know if it's always represented evil so much as it's just represented the powers being are getting. Maybe the "genetic mutation" or whatever pseudo-science they go for originated in that village where the swordsmith lives. Maybe the swordsmith is the first Hero?

Holy freakin' duh, maybe the swordsmith is Hiro's father.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Belial » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:04 am UTC

Did anyone notice a particular similarity between the way the kamikaze guy (the one who tackled Hiro's dad off the building) was dressed, and the way Sylar dressed in early Season 1? Windbreaker, cap pulled low, hunched shoulders....
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Alisto » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:45 am UTC

I was wondering how he looked so familiar.

More interestingly, what did Nakamura's line mean? "Of all the people for them to send, I never thought it would be you." That's interesting. More interesting is that he recognized the damned Unabomber in his little outfit.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Gadren » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:57 am UTC

Is the reflection of Peter? Looks more like Nathan to me.

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Jesse » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:19 am UTC

http://gregbeeman.blogspot.com/2007/09/ ... s-ago.html

Seventh paragraph.

"Nathan, who was so in control and determined as a political candidate last year, has seemingly lost it all and has no goals. He drinks alone in a bar and is haunted by a disfigured version of himself. Who is this vision and what is the symbolism behind his horrible disfigurement?"

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Alisto » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:42 am UTC

Thanks for that. This makes things interesting.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Torvaun » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:40 pm UTC

Peter's got the Haitian's necklace, there's no reason why he couldn't have provided the amnesia. He did something similar to that football player. Or, Peter used the Haitian's power on himself after he thought he killed Nathan. It seems fairly clear that Nathan got burned while he was getting the hell away from Peter, and Peter probably didn't know that Nathan got away.

Now that someone else has mentioned the swordsmith being Hiro's dad, it does seem overly obvious. He was hanging out in the sword shop when Hiro wanted to reforge Kensai's blade. He's got mad sword skills. And again, there's that symbol.

Now, I have a couple theories on who killed Hiro's dad. The first is that it was Sylar. It occurs to me that he's already killed someone from the same generation as Linderman, et al. Mohinder's dad. Given the sudden revelation of Duveaux, it's not that big of a leap. He almost certainly knew Hiro's dad, if we assume that he is, in fact, the swordsmith. The symbol is on his book, the oldest place we can find it other than on Kensai's relics. The assumption was that Sylar killed papa Suresh because he knew too much about him, but it's quite possible that he was ordered to do so. He is also able to take massive punishment, as seen when Niki hit him, and a newly enhanced Peter beat on him as well.

Second theory was that it was D.L. He was alive at the end of Season 1, he was the guy who killed Linderman, possibly with an alternate motive for doing so, and he'd probably have to worry about falling off a roof less than most people. There is the obvious problem that D.L. has skin a lot darker than the guy who killed Hiro's dad.

Third theory: That guy who could turn invisible. He's old enough to be one of the Nine. If Bennet never mentioned that he wasn't dead to the company, it'd be quite unexpected for Hiro's dad. Obvious flaws abound, including that he was seen falling, while he would prefer clinging to the edge invisible, and that his power doesn't prevent him from being street pizza.

Best theory: Some guy we've never seen before whose power is flight, levitation, telekinesis, gravity control, healing, invulnerability, phasing, or some other power that makes him uniquely suited to surviving his depressed stockbroker impersonation. Maybe a Nameless One style resurrection thing, where death just doesn't stick. Ooh, or possession/mind control, and the young guy was an unwilling husk, that'd be pretty cool.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby marcmagus » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:49 pm UTC

CatProximity wrote:Also I think Ma Patrelli's power is a bit of pre-cognition.


I always thought it was some sort of mind-control, perhaps projective empathy. Something which makes people do what she asks them to. How else did both Nathan's and Claire's wills turn to jelly when she told them it was very important they do things they didn't want to?

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Narsil » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:02 pm UTC

Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?

Just a sudden brain-flash. Now that would be a hell of a twist.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Nath » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:59 pm UTC

Narsil wrote:Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?

...Ick?

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby marcmagus » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:13 pm UTC

Narsil wrote:Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?


You'd think he'd recognize himself. Given his (Hiro's father's) comment to Ando this episode about how he'd always considered Hiro a failure until recently, that seems implausible. I can definitely see Hiro as his own ancestor (and also as being the hero Kensei, of course).

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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby william » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:59 pm UTC

marcmagus wrote:
Narsil wrote:Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?


You'd think he'd recognize himself. Given his (Hiro's father's) comment to Ando this episode about how he'd always considered Hiro a failure until recently, that seems implausible. I can definitely see Hiro as his own ancestor (and also as being the hero Kensei, of course).

If Hiro is his own father, then Kaito isn't Hiro's father. But I think ancestor is more likely anyways.
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby fjafjan » Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:22 am UTC

Narsil wrote:Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?

Just a sudden brain-flash. Now that would be a hell of a twist.

He'd lack the Delta brainwave!
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Sprocket » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:31 pm UTC

Jesster wrote:http://gregbeeman.blogspot.com/2007/09/season-2-episode-2-four-months-ago.html

Seventh paragraph.

"Nathan, who was so in control and determined as a political candidate last year, has seemingly lost it all and has no goals. He drinks alone in a bar and is haunted by a disfigured version of himself. Who is this vision and what is the symbolism behind his horrible disfigurement?"


Hmm. It was the hair that made it seem like it must have been Peter. It still does in that picture...They shouldn't have made the hair so peter-like.

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Anyone in Somerville up for watching tonight?
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Vekter » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:15 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:
Narsil wrote:Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?

Just a sudden brain-flash. Now that would be a hell of a twist.

He'd lack the Delta brainwave!


That's GRANDFATHER, fjafjan. You should know that better than any of us.

Also, what does everyone think will happen if causality kicks in? I mean, didn't Hiro just change the past, ergo the future?
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Re: Heroes: Here thar be spoilers (US Edition)

Postby Okita » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:39 pm UTC

Vekter wrote:
fjafjan wrote:
Narsil wrote:Hey, I just had an idea. What if Hero is his own father?

Just a sudden brain-flash. Now that would be a hell of a twist.

He'd lack the Delta brainwave!


That's GRANDFATHER, fjafjan. You should know that better than any of us.

Also, what does everyone think will happen if causality kicks in? I mean, didn't Hiro just change the past, ergo the future?


Causality don't work that way, bub. Hiro helped prevent the bomb, remember? Technically that's not possible since he went to a future where the bomb did explode (twice). Not to mention Future Hiro comes from a future with a bomb.

Thus, we can safely assume that the writers of Heroes just let Time do it's own thang and go crazy without paying attention to things like Novikov's Self-consistency principle. Then again, I've studied time related stuff extensively because I play Deus City. Go fig.
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