Doctor Whom

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netcrusher88
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby netcrusher88 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:49 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:
Spoiler:
Majora's Mask? How so? Because of Gallifrey in the sky?

Spoiler:
Speeding towards Earth on a collision course only to be diverted at the last minute, even. Yes.

Also, am I the only one who thought the gate resembled the Intrinsic Field Subtractor from Watchmen?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Mother Superior » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:12 am UTC

Spoiler:
Good episode, overall. Weak on certain points, such as:
The time lords being brought back for a full, whopping five minutes.
The rather weird "Kill the 'real' master and everything gets reversed"-thing. Not technically a reset-button, so it's fine, it's just a bit of a flawed plan, really, since he knew his body would die.

I loved the entire time paradox with the Time Lords, especially how the meeting seemed to take place at the same time as the episode, which of course it would. I'd wished the Time Lords could return more permanently, even in some small fashion as it would have been a nice way for them to set up the Doctor gaining a new set of regenerations at some point in the future, but oh well. And I loved "I don't want to go." Amazing. The second he said that, his death was agonizing to watch. I also thought the end goodbyes were fine, a bit drawn out perhaps, but not too badly. The scene with Mickey and Martha was a bit... weird, but what the hell, and the Sarah Jane bit was redundant, I thought. But hey, it was emotional all the same. Rose's scene, despite my deepest horrors, was not gratuitous. I won't give judgement on the 11th Doctor based on what little we saw of him, but I sincerely hope that he doesn't try to be Tennant. Tennant was at his best when he wasn't trying to be hip and cool and goofy.


Dobblesworth wrote:
Spoiler:
Yet another iteration of Tenth being an arse with the timeline. No doubt he goes forward to the lottery draw announcement, then back to purchase a ticket with the exact numbers


Spoiler:
Oh no, changing who wins a randomly given prize.

Spoiler:
Come on Master, you have the entire nuclear arsenal of a planet to use, and you can only launch in waves to have at most 20-30 strafing around the craft of your mortal foe? Try harder...


Spoiler:
Use nukes to destroy a fast-moving spaceship? Why would he try to do something so stupid? And 20-30 missiles is probably a fair amount of missiles to be deployed at the south coast of England at such short notice.

Spoiler:
I'm gonna need a pencil and paper to sort out in my head the chronology, cause and effect and whatever loops are involved with this "Heartbeat of a Time Lord" signal.

Spoiler:
"Events that have happened are happening now." So far as I could track, the whole thing made perfect sense.


Spoiler:
A pistol that has been out of action since, at the earliest, the End of the British Mandate in Palestine 1948. I'm rather sceptical about its capability to be fully operational 60-and-a-bit years later, unless Wilfred did his maintenance...


Spoiler:
Wilfred strikes me exactly as the sort of person who would do his maintenance.


Rakysh wrote:
Spoiler:
+ It all looks awesome
- The angels are coming back
- The Daleks are coming back
- Swords!
- That "Geronimo" thingie might become a catchphrase.


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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MiB24601 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:47 am UTC

Spoiler:
TaintedDeity wrote:I think this has been one of the only times the Doctor knew his death was coming. He had time to worry, think about it and get himself into a state beforehand when, usually, it's all out of the blue.

The Fourth Doctor knew he was going to die all throughout Logopolis (He saw the Watcher at the beginning of the episode, which indicated that he was going to regenerate soon, which goes back to an earlier episode involving the Third Doctor's regeneration in Planet of the Spiders. It's all very silly when you go into it but needless to say, the Fourth Doctor knew he was going to die soon). Even knowing that, he still didn't do anything differently than he normally did.

Oh, and while the Tenth Doctor whined and shouted when he had to sacrifice his life for Wilf's, the Fifth Doctor gave up his life in exchange for Peri's without a second thought. While I'm not a big fan of that*, it can be easily attributed to the idea that the Doctor really likes Earth girls. ;)

*But while I don't like that the character did that, David Tennant acted the hell out of that scene.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby ameretrifle » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:24 am UTC

MiB24601 wrote:
Spoiler:
But that's out the window now. The Tenth Doctor clearly thinks that "he" will be dead and who-ever comes next won't be him. However, this could simply follow along with the idea that the Tenth Doctor has be around far too long and he needs to regenerate and get a new perspective on things. I was a bit disappointed in the Doctor when he yelled at how "ordinary" Wilf was and that it's terrible that the Doctor needs to give up his life for him. Previous Doctors had no problem giving up their lives to save "ordinary" people. That moment seemed out of character but considering how the Tenth Doctor has acted throughout the specials, it's clear that this is who the Tenth Doctor has become. And that's why it's good that he regenerated.
Spoiler:
They went THAT far with it? They made it that goddamn explicit and still no one cares. Jesus. I give up. I've long had my doubts that he was actually the Doctor, and now I'm pretty sure I know who he is:

Young Zaphod Plays it Safe wrote:"The reason," he said, quietly, "why everything else in this room is, I maintain, safe, is that no one is really crazy enough to use them. No one. At least no one that crazy would ever get near them. Anyone that mad or dangerous rings very deep alarm bells. People may be stupid but they're not that stupid....

"The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation was awarded a huge research grant to design and produce synthetic personalities to order. The results were uniformly disastrous. All the 'people' and 'personalities' turned out to be amalgams of characteristics that simply could not co-exist in naturally occuring life forms. Most of them were just poor pathetic misfits, but some were deeply, deeply dangerous. Dangerous because they didn't ring alarm bells in other people. They could walk through situations the way that ghosts walk through walls, because no one spotted the danger.... They are not evil, in fact they are rather simple and charming. But they are the most dangerous creatures that ever lived because there is nothing they will not do if allowed, and nothing they will not be allowed to do..."


But yeah. He died as he lived: a thoughtless, selfish, destructive emo prick. I don't know why I was hoping for anything different. And new boy appears to be taking waaaaaaay too much of that to heart. Whether I'm a hypersensitive overzealous fangirl, or whether they're ignorant, crazed assholes, it's clear that there's nothing for me in this show anymore either way. I'm gone. I'm cutting all ties, this time, because wherever the fault lies, I am never going to like this show again. Thank god.

bigglesworth wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, 9th Dr => 10th Dr was another step away from the one that fought the Time War. This incarnation had the "do no harm" thing set, and he had built his new life around humans, a good life. We'll see what happens in his next life.
Spoiler:
...What? "Do no harm"? This Doctor? "No second chances" Doctor? "I used to have so much mercy" Doctor? "Screw the rules I has a TARDIS" Doctor? "The Lonely God" Doctor? "You wanted to live forever? Well, here you go, assholes" Doctor? I realize that my viewpoint is highly negative and not the only one, but that much seems pretty inarguable. Am I misreading something here, or have we finally proved the existence of parallel universes right here in these fora?
TaintedDeity wrote:
Spoiler:
I think this has been one of the only times the Doctor knew his death was coming. He had time to worry, think about it and get himself into a state beforehand when, usually, it's all out of the blue.
Spoiler:
"The Caves of Androzani" comes to mind... as well as most of the other ones, to varying and debatable degrees... but I'm not able or willing to put up an argument. Someone on this LJ described it as "Planet of the Spiders except with no dignity whatsoever"... so, uh, not that unprecedented, no. It was originally considered more of a pure change in appearance, but that changed over the years, becoming more of a change in persona-- but always, it was supposed to be the same essential person underneath. There were things that could kill him permanently; some came close (see 5->6, IIRC). But regeneration was never quite death. And even two bloody years ago, circa The Sound of Drums, no one thought of it that way. Most of it I really can understand, but seriously, bitching at WILF like that? I'm sorry, no matter how you slice it, that shit's just straight-up emo whinging, whether you somehow regard it as a temporary lapse or not. If you don't think you should die to save one "ordinary" person, then don't do it, jackass. No one's making you. Unless you count those voices in your head, but most people call that a "conscience" and it doesn't really count.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Rakysh » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:25 am UTC

Spoiler:
It did seem a bit much to be whining at Wilf, and he's definitely arrogant, but I'm not sure that constitutes emo-ness. I think this doctor just knows that he can really do anything- I mean doing the stuff he's written to do would give anyone an inflated idea of their own importance.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Link » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:57 am UTC

Spoiler:
Re. the dying for "ordinary" Wilf part, put yourself in his shoes. He has saved the entire universe on multiple occasions and walked away without as much as a scratch. Then a single, ordinary human is in danger, and the only way for the Doctor to save him is to die. At that point, anyone would be thinking such thoughts. The only difference is that the Doctor said them instead of just thinking them. Ultimately, I feel that scene wasn't so much about Wilf being "just an ordinary human" as it was about the unfairness of having to die for one person while he lived saving billions.

And to anyone saying "but regeneration isn't death", regeneration is death. You die and another person walks away with your memories. Your body and your personality are gone; burned away in the blast of regeneration energy. It's like making a video recording of your entire life. Even though the recording lives on after you die, you do not.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:59 pm UTC

As polite as all of you are being to whoever hasn't watched the very latest episode of Dr. Who, does it not strike any of you as a bit silly that all your comments have been in spoilers?
I'd just really really like to put a sign on this thread saying something like 'If you haven't watched the most recent episode, don't look!'
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:02 pm UTC

Fractal_Tangent wrote:As polite as all of you are being to whoever hasn't watched the very latest episode of Dr. Who, does it not strike any of you as a bit silly that all your comments have been in spoilers?
I'd just really really like to put a sign on this thread saying something like 'If you haven't watched the most recent episode, don't look!'


Spoiler:
Agreed, spoiler tags are immensely irritating.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:15 pm UTC

Also, hasn't it been aired on US TV by now? Although maybe a week for those who record these things would be considerate.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:27 pm UTC

Spoiler:
But spoilers are funnn! It's like a little present you unwrap...
Alright, it might be neater is someone puts a spoiler warning in the title...
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MiB24601 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:45 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Link wrote:Re. the dying for "ordinary" Wilf part, put yourself in his shoes. He has saved the entire universe on multiple occasions and walked away without as much as a scratch. Then a single, ordinary human is in danger, and the only way for the Doctor to save him is to die. At that point, anyone would be thinking such thoughts. The only difference is that the Doctor said them instead of just thinking them. Ultimately, I feel that scene wasn't so much about Wilf being "just an ordinary human" as it was about the unfairness of having to die for one person while he lived saving billions.


Except that when this has happened to the Doctor before (and it has, in several classic episodes), he has never complained about it before. Not once. Now, like I said before, the scenes were VERY well acted by Tennant so, I'm not that bothered by them but still, it doesn't match how the character has acted before.

Link wrote:And to anyone saying "but regeneration isn't death", regeneration is death. You die and another person walks away with your memories. Your body and your personality are gone; burned away in the blast of regeneration energy. It's like making a video recording of your entire life. Even though the recording lives on after you die, you do not.


Except that's NEVER how regeneration has been shown before. NEVER. The classic show had characters regenerate the way that people would get new haircuts. Only the Doctor ever saved his regenerations for when he was close to death and that could be attributed to the idea that he lives in a lot more danger than the average Time Lord and he needs to use them sparingly.

And like I said before, the new show made it clear when the Tenth Doctor first appeared that this was the same character. The Tenth Doctor explicitly said that he was the same man as the Ninth Doctor, showing continuity of identity with regards to his personal relationships to those around him.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:40 pm UTC

I attribute it to the 10th Doctor letting himself become far too human. A human might consider the end of one persona and the beginning of the next "death". A Time Lord, however, someone who lives hundreds or thousands of years at a time in one persona (or even just one human lifetime) should consider it a breath of fresh air.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Link » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:15 pm UTC

Spoiler:
MiB24601 wrote:
Link wrote:Re. the dying for "ordinary" Wilf part, put yourself in his shoes. He has saved the entire universe on multiple occasions and walked away without as much as a scratch. Then a single, ordinary human is in danger, and the only way for the Doctor to save him is to die. At that point, anyone would be thinking such thoughts. The only difference is that the Doctor said them instead of just thinking them. Ultimately, I feel that scene wasn't so much about Wilf being "just an ordinary human" as it was about the unfairness of having to die for one person while he lived saving billions.


Except that when this has happened to the Doctor before (and it has, in several classic episodes), he has never complained about it before. Not once. Now, like I said before, the scenes were VERY well acted by Tennant so, I'm not that bothered by them but still, it doesn't match how the character has acted before.
Maybe. Although, take into account that the Doctor isn't too far away from running out of regenerations (he has to be a bit more careful when choosing who's worth dying for), and that Ten has developed a sort of superiority complex to hide the agony he's in.

MiB24601 wrote:
Link wrote:And to anyone saying "but regeneration isn't death", regeneration is death. You die and another person walks away with your memories. Your body and your personality are gone; burned away in the blast of regeneration energy. It's like making a video recording of your entire life. Even though the recording lives on after you die, you do not.


Except that's NEVER how regeneration has been shown before. NEVER. The classic show had characters regenerate the way that people would get new haircuts. Only the Doctor ever saved his regenerations for when he was close to death and that could be attributed to the idea that he lives in a lot more danger than the average Time Lord and he needs to use them sparingly.

And like I said before, the new show made it clear when the Tenth Doctor first appeared that this was the same character. The Tenth Doctor explicitly said that he was the same man as the Ninth Doctor, showing continuity of identity with regards to his personal relationships to those around him.
The Christmas Invasion specifically highlighted that the Doctor didn't really know who he was after his regeneration. He knew he was the Doctor, of course, but not what kind of personality he had - at all.

I agree with aleflamedyud in that it probably has least in part to with him being very human. That, in turn, is probably caused by what he's seen during the Time War, and with him "imprinting" on humanity, since humans are the closest thing to family he has left, now that the Time Lords are gone.

Of course, some of the differences with the Original Series could also be explained simply by the different writers, and even the differences between television and story-writing in the 1960s/70s/80s and the mid-2000s.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:19 pm UTC

Link wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe. Although, take into account that the Doctor isn't too far away from running out of regenerations (he has to be a bit more careful when choosing who's worth dying for), and that Ten has developed a sort of superiority complex to hide the agony he's in.
Spoiler:
How many regenerations does he have left, anyway? What limits it?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:22 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
Link wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe. Although, take into account that the Doctor isn't too far away from running out of regenerations (he has to be a bit more careful when choosing who's worth dying for), and that Ten has developed a sort of superiority complex to hide the agony he's in.
Spoiler:
How many regenerations does he have left, anyway? What limits it?

Supposedly Time Lords have 12 regenerations each, for 13 personas each. I say "supposedly" because that was the Old Series, and I wouldn't blink if the writers had found some way to make the Time War retcon it. The Master, after all, has definitely regenerated more times than 12.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Mother Superior » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:01 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:
Link wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe. Although, take into account that the Doctor isn't too far away from running out of regenerations (he has to be a bit more careful when choosing who's worth dying for), and that Ten has developed a sort of superiority complex to hide the agony he's in.
Spoiler:
How many regenerations does he have left, anyway? What limits it?

Supposedly Time Lords have 12 regenerations each, for 13 personas each. I say "supposedly" because that was the Old Series, and I wouldn't blink if the writers had found some way to make the Time War retcon it. The Master, after all, has definitely regenerated more times than 12.

In the master's case, they've made a big deal about it. He ran out of regenerations before the Television movie, forced himself back into life (or something, been a while and didn't exactly want to re-watch it) and tried to steal the doctor's regenerations. But it seemed to me that because the stated explicitly that the time lords brought back the master to fight in the time war that they intend to keep the 12-limit in.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:05 am UTC

I've come to the conclusion that they need to reintroduce Romana to Doctor Who.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MysteryBall » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:45 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:
Link wrote:
Spoiler:
Maybe. Although, take into account that the Doctor isn't too far away from running out of regenerations (he has to be a bit more careful when choosing who's worth dying for), and that Ten has developed a sort of superiority complex to hide the agony he's in.
Spoiler:
How many regenerations does he have left, anyway? What limits it?

Supposedly Time Lords have 12 regenerations each, for 13 personas each. I say "supposedly" because that was the Old Series, and I wouldn't blink if the writers had found some way to make the Time War retcon it. The Master, after all, has definitely regenerated more times than 12.


Spoiler:
Due to the Series 4 finale, I think he's had 11 regenerations now, 11th Doctor, but he cheated a regeneration when he piled it into his hand. Whether this counts as a full regeneration I don't know, it depends on what the limiting factor is, the body not being able to take changing? Or a lack of regeneration energy? The latter makes sense in this context, the former means that it doesn't count since he didn't really change



Important Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Remember in The Shakespeare Code? What ever happened to meeting Queen Elizabeth the First?

EDIT: Okay, just realised, Good Queen Bess. ;_;


Oh, one more thing:

Spoiler:
Alonso was in Voyage of the Damned.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:26 pm UTC

Spoiler:
You know, while the scene with Wilf felt like rather abrupt whining, it fits perfectly with the mental road the Doctor was going down at the end of Waters of Mars. It's just that they didn't really talk about it much in the hour-and-a-half before that, so when it does happen, it's weird.

Also, what was up with Donna? Why isn't she dead?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:28 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Spoiler:
You know, while the scene with Wilf felt like rather abrupt whining, it fits perfectly with the mental road the Doctor was going down at the end of Waters of Mars. It's just that they didn't really talk about it much in the hour-and-a-half before that, so when it does happen, it's weird.

Also, what was up with Donna? Why isn't she dead?


Spoiler:
"Defense mechanism". Maybe it included a fresh memory wipe.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:31 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Then why did he spend all that time telling her family that "her brain will BURN and she will DIE!"? Wouldn't it have been a bit less stressful on everyone involved to say, "Look, it'll be kind of messy if she remembers, but she'll end up being ok. Just keep her out of all the alien stuff."?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:01 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Spoiler:
Then why did he spend all that time telling her family that "her brain will BURN and she will DIE!"? Wouldn't it have been a bit less stressful on everyone involved to say, "Look, it'll be kind of messy if she remembers, but she'll end up being ok. Just keep her out of all the alien stuff."?


Spoiler:
Maybe it only works once, so it shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:06 pm UTC

Spoiler:
He was still lying to everyone about the situation for no real discernible reason. Bit of a dick move there, Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:12 pm UTC

It went all explodey and quite possibly killed the Master clones going after her.
It then left her unconscious for a rather long time.
I'd be making damn sure that didn't go off unless absolutely necessary and by saying it would kill her you can be sure the only people who would set it off are people who don't care if she dies.
Seems a rather brilliant idea to me.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:22 pm UTC

Spoiler:
"Look, Wilfred. Donna's got a thing in her head that will work like a small grenade if she ever remembers me, but it will save her from going crazy. Stop it from being triggered at all costs, because it's meant as a defense mechanism."

And I certainly hope it didn't kill those clones. They were people, after all.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:45 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Maybe that's why the doctor really didn't want anything exposing her to alien stuff. Because it would kill people.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Various Varieties » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:56 pm UTC

Re: the regeneration limit:
Spoiler:
I've never seen the episode(s) of the old series in which the limit was mentioned, but this is a programme that's just got the Time Lords out of the the time-locked Time War by contriving a series of events involving the sound of drums being embedded in the Master's brain as a child! A mentioned-in-passing-for-then-current-plot-reasons regeneration limit should be comparatively easy to wheedle out of...

SlyReaper wrote:
Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Spoiler:
Then why did he spend all that time telling her family that "her brain will BURN and she will DIE!"? Wouldn't it have been a bit less stressful on everyone involved to say, "Look, it'll be kind of messy if she remembers, but she'll end up being ok. Just keep her out of all the alien stuff."?


Spoiler:
Maybe it only works once, so it shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary.

Spoiler:
In the episode's online commentary, RTD says that he loves the thought that during "The Moffat Years", somewhere in Chiswick there'll be a temp who's forever fainting whenever she encounters something alien. :)

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MiB24601 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:15 pm UTC

Spoiler:
aleflamedyud wrote:Supposedly Time Lords have 12 regenerations each, for 13 personas each. I say "supposedly" because that was the Old Series, and I wouldn't blink if the writers had found some way to make the Time War retcon it. The Master, after all, has definitely regenerated more times than 12.

Cue wrote:Due to the Series 4 finale, I think he's had 11 regenerations now, 11th Doctor, but he cheated a regeneration when he piled it into his hand. Whether this counts as a full regeneration I don't know, it depends on what the limiting factor is, the body not being able to take changing? Or a lack of regeneration energy? The latter makes sense in this context, the former means that it doesn't count since he didn't really change


The extended universe novels state that a Time Lord body will try to regenerate again following the 13th incarnation but that this will result in the body being completely destroyed, which is why there is no 14th incarnation of a Time Lord. Since this is expanded universe material, it's most likely non-canon but that does fit with the idea that the regeneration from Journey's End doesn't count.

Various Varieties wrote:I've never seen the episode(s) of the old series in which the limit was mentioned, but this is a programme that's just got the Time Lords out of the the time-locked Time War by contriving a series of events involving the sound of drums being embedded in the Master's brain as a child! A mentioned-in-passing-for-then-current-plot-reasons regeneration limit should be comparatively easy to wheedle out of...


The limit was mentioned in The Deadly Assassin, a Fourth Doctor serial and was then repeated in The Enemy Within, the Eighth Doctor TV movie. Moffat has stated that he considers the TV movie canon (When asked if the Doctor was half-human, Moffat replied "He certainly said that.") and The Deadly Assassin certainly is canon. However, The Five Doctors shows that the Time Lords certainly think that it is possible to have further regenerations past the 13th, since the High Council offers the Master a new, full set of regenerations in exchange for helping the Doctor in that episode. The Master certainly had a new set of regenerations after he was resurrected by the Time Lords as the Derek Jacobi Master was able to regenerate in Utopia and the Doctor certainly thinks that the John Simm Master can regenerate as the Master is dying in The Last of the Time Lords
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Joeldi » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:03 am UTC

Spoiler:
I was hoping that the timelord/tv lady whatever was Romana. Never saw an episode with her in it, but I remember hearing something about her being made president of the time lords maybe, and eventually she became just an ordinary councillor.??

Yeah, and Mickey? Wasn't she married to some other guy? Drawing a blank on that one.

And we still have a plot hole with River. How oh how are you going to address that one Moffat?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby netcrusher88 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:16 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:
Spoiler:
And we still have a plot hole with River. How oh how are you going to address that one Moffat?

Spoiler:
Plot hole? River knew the Doctor at some point chronologically prior to the Silence in the Library duology but after that in his personal timeline which is for all intents and purposes indefinite. She'll be a companion at some point, though according to the Tardis Index File she's likely to be more of an intermittent companion like Captain Jack. Either way, based on his contribution so far Moffat knows what he's doing.

I expect to see Jenny back, too.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MysteryBall » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:38 am UTC

netcrusher88 wrote:
Spoiler:
I expect to see Jenny back, too.


Spoiler:
YES.
Been waiting quite a while for Jenny.
Also, yeah, River Song doesn't recognise the Doctor, it's in a new regeneration that she meets him.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Random832 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:59 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Huh? River didn't immediately (i.e. before talking to him) realize that the Tenth Doctor wasn't 'her' Doctor, therefore she traveled with the Tenth doctor (or a future regeneration looking very similar). How'd you reach the opposite conclusion?

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:01 pm UTC

Spoiler:
She recognizes him, she just says something like "judging by the face, it's early days". Notably, however, she expected the Doctor to recognize her as well, and was surprised when he didn't. If Ten really never meant River, she would know that he doesn't know her yet.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:15 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Spoiler:
She recognizes him, she just says something like "judging by the face, it's early days". Notably, however, she expected the Doctor to recognize her as well, and was surprised when he didn't. If Ten really never meant River, she would know that he doesn't know her yet.


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Re: Doctor Who

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:20 pm UTC

Maybe Tennant comes back for a special involving her?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Joeldi » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:43 pm UTC

Now that I think about it, I posted this earlier in the thread. He might not have explained to her that he can't go back to previous incarnations.
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby aleflamedyud » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:08 pm UTC

They explained about River Song. When the Doctor walks out of his TARDIS on Oodsphere and recounts his side-travels that took place off-screen he notes that he "[G]ot married... That was a mistake.". I think that referred to River Song, though it's possible it didn't encompass all of their relationship on her time-line. She could go out with the 11th Doctor somewhere along the line, but Ten met her at the start, Ten married her, and she dies with Ten (but earlier in his personal history than he actually met her, hence its being a "mistake").

Remember, guys, being an immortal time traveler means that the Doctor can do quite a damn lot between when the TARDIS disappears from one location and when it reappears in another.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Joeldi » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:10 am UTC

I thought he was talking about a fling with the Queen- this was when he went on the "I'm a lord of time and can do what I want fuck history" rampage. Also, River's appearance showed no evidence of their relationship being a mistake.
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

roc314 wrote:America is a police state that communicates in txt speak...

"i hav teh dissentors brb""¡This cheese is burning me! u pwnd them bff""thx ur cool 2"

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:18 am UTC

Joeldi wrote: fuck history

Literal application of this principle, I see.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Klapaucius » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:33 pm UTC

Spoiler:
But yeah. He died as he lived: a thoughtless, selfish, destructive emo prick. I don't know why I was hoping for anything different. And new boy appears to be taking waaaaaaay too much of that to heart. Whether I'm a hypersensitive overzealous fangirl, or whether they're ignorant, crazed assholes, it's clear that there's nothing for me in this show anymore either way. I'm gone. I'm cutting all ties, this time, because wherever the fault lies, I am never going to like this show again. Thank god.
Spoiler:
The Doctor was reaking out over Wilf being "ordinary" because his A God Am I hubris was coming back to bite him in the arse. He went from "Nobody dies" to "Everyone dies" to "This time, nobody dies" to "You live! You die! You live! You die! I am Chronos, lord of what just happened!" to "Oh god, I think I just killed someone" to "Nevermind, it's okay, I'm Chronos again, for real this time", saving the universe from the End of Time (not time ending, what lived there, which was a neat reversal) and after operating on such an epic scale and winning, he found himself holding the life of one useless old man, and after knowing his own mortality, he truly realized what he had become, and knew that, even after destroying so many lives, that day he couldn't go on living if he let one old man die.


bigglesworth wrote:Maybe Tennant comes back for a special involving her?
[/quote]There should still be another Ten that was exiled in the alsoverse--I'm hoping we see him again.
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