Doctor Whom

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:42 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
The Geoff wrote:
Spoiler:
I'd like to see a few seasons of John Hurt, fill in the McGann->Eccleston gap a bit more than just a special or two.
Indeed, the timing seems just a little bit too convenient.


Spoiler:
Sounds like it'll be pretty dark. Not that I mind that...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:13 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22741493

So who'll be next?

I want a woman. After 12 male doctors it's time for a female one. Though I don't know enough British actresses to give you a name. Well, i know Billie Piper, but I think she already was in a few episodes as a different character :)
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:08 am UTC

It's worth noting that the last two "who's next" discussions by the press/fans haven't guessed the next Doctor correctly. Mainly because of the tendency to go for someone who has had one or two smaller main roles but is as yet "undiscovered" by mainstream media.

Personally I prefer going for the relative unknowns, it gives a feeling of watching "The Doctor, as played by Matt Smith" rather than "Oh look, it's Matt Smith being the Doctor". The focus is on the role rather than the name of the actor.

Also, if we're getting a big name my standard suggestion stands: Hugh Laurie
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:12 am UTC

I agree that Hugh Laurie would be an awesome doctor.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:30 am UTC

Diadem wrote:
charliepanayi wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22741493

So who'll be next?

I want a woman. After 12 male doctors it's time for a female one. Though I don't know enough British actresses to give you a name. Well, i know Billie Piper, but I think she already was in a few episodes as a different character :)


Whilst it is now canon that time lord can change physiological sex on regeneration, the implication is that this s something that the time lord has some degree of control over. Having a female doctor would not merely be a "woop, diversity" thing but would also then retcon genderfluidity into the doctor's character. This could be a good thing but, given current head writers, I feel like it would be handled incredibly badly. Furthermore, having a female doctor would very easily fall into the "we need to appease feminists" type thinking rather than "this actor is the best actor for the job, oh and they happen to be female".
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:40 am UTC

An idea I had and posted on /r/gallifrey on Reddit:

Spoiler:
Ok, first I'm going to preface this with my assumptions:

I'm going to assume that John Hurt is either a very old 8 or the true 9th that they don't count in the Doctor numbering because he did something so against who they feel they are that the Doctors disowned him.
I'm going to assume that the rumour/news that Matt had signed on to be in who in 2014 came from somewhere BBC way but wasn't meant to come out and misunderstood

The idea:

The 50th:
A self encapsulated story where 10 & 11 try and stop Hurt doing bad things. They either realise straight away or later (not important when) that he is a part of them and while they succeed in stopping him SOMETHING is done to 11 by Hurt that effects him. You see hints of the dark side of the Doctor come out, the more manipulative shrewd, controlling parts. Still slightly subtle at this point but you know that SOMETHING is happening and that it's not good.

Fast-forward to...

The Christmas Special:
The Doctor is losing control of himself. Whatever was triggered in the 50th is slowly taking over him. He has Clara more or less guarding him, making sure he doesn't do anything bad until he can figure a way to rid himself of the darker personality. From time to time it fully takes over, it's getting more and more difficult. They then find some sort of device, a PlotDeviceTM if you will. This can be whatever the writers want, a chanting collection of uber-nuns, a genetic altering supercomputer made by apple in the year 3298, whatever. The important thing is that it is to be used to split the dark personality from the Doctor so he can regain himself.
Frantic things happen to get the Doctor into THE DEVICETM a couple of times the darker side takes over and it looks like he is trying to flee. Each time he is put back and finally the device starts, the dark side of the Doctor is pulled away from him. We get some awesome dark glowy cgi to represent the evil personality as it hovers away from the Doctor, we think we've won. Then something happens. Something (an automated defence system, a bribed guard, whatever) comes out and kills the Doctor while he is still in the machine's effect.

Regeneration begins, we see the usual energy flowing out from the Doctor's limbs and head, he's changing into the 12th (or 13th depending on how the 50th screws up numbering). There's just one difference. Instead of dissipating as normal there is a place for the excess regeneration energy to go, there is a Timelord soul hovering above us. The golden energy mixes with the CGI representation of the darker side of the Doctor, it starts to grow and take the shape of a humanoid.

The room starts to go into meltdown as things go pop around the new & still unconscious Doctor as things tend to do in New Who when there's a regeneration. There is some sort of announcement that life support is about to give up or something. We see the new Doctor still motionless in the background as a shadowy figure exits, leaving him for dead. We cut close to the face of the newly created being. The look is smug, evil and determined, the shot pulls away as we see him in new clothes from "plot convenient location", something all in black, it's Matt Smith but not the fun and jovial Matt Smith we've seen before, he's serious and a little scary.

We've just witnessed the birth of the Valeyard.

Edit: of course the new Doctor will be rescued by Clara after MattValeyard has left, I'm assuming that is a given.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:01 pm UTC

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby The Geoff » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:31 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Alex Kingston take over - at the end of NOTD River was chatting away to The Doctor, presumably due to the River->Clara->TARDIS telepathic link being maintained (eg she's now stored within the TARDIS and/or The Doctor's mind. And we know from Let's Kill Hitler that she's capable of controlling her own regenerations (see also Romana "getting changed" into multiple different bodies). Upshot, the Doctor regenerates and she finds her way in there, becoming The Doctor.


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Sacrificing Doctor Who for Firefly is like sacrificing your lungs to make breathing easier. :shock: :P
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:42 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Well, i know Billie Piper, but I think she already was in a few episodes as a different character :)

Never really stopped them recasting someone before. Although by "them" I mostly mean RTD, who seemed to have no problem re-using actors *or* character names.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:14 pm UTC

keozen wrote:An idea I had and posted on /r/gallifrey on Reddit:

<snip/>

Spoiler:
I like this idea. If I'm interpreting it correctly, you're harkening back to some of the seasons of Old Who, where there was one long plot arc with a main villain - usually the Master, but also the Valeyard in his appearance, appropriately enough. I could certainly see them pulling some kind of trick to have the next Doctor taking the risk of crossing streams with himself as the Valeyard to right all the wrongs being caused or at least try to control some of the fallout. Or even better, build up to the Second Time War - both sides gathering their armies, enemies like the Daleks and Cybermen choosing a side but obviously planning to turn on the Doctor/Valeyard as soon as the battle is over, the Doctor doing everything he can to prevent the war but knowing it's inevitable and just hoping that it doesn't destroy all time and space like the first Time War threatened to.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ameretrifle » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:20 am UTC

ConMan wrote:
Diadem wrote:Well, i know Billie Piper, but I think she already was in a few episodes as a different character :)

Never really stopped them recasting someone before. Although by "them" I mostly mean RTD, who seemed to have no problem re-using actors *or* character names.

To be fair, it's not like he started it.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:21 am UTC

The Harsh Truth:
Firefly isn't coming back, get over it. It would actually be a step back for Joss to do it now, he's one of the most wanted Hollywood popcorn flick directors at the moment and pretty much all the rest of the cast have also moved on.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:23 am UTC

It was a joke...?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:12 am UTC

The Geoff wrote:Sacrificing Doctor Who for Firefly is like sacrificing your lungs to make breathing easier. :shock: :P


I think it's more like selling both your kidneys to pay for a heart transplant.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:50 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:It was a joke...?

I know, I still love ya!
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:35 pm UTC

keozen wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:It was a joke...?

I know, I still love ya!

D'awww! <3
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby iamspen » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

I'm voting Patrick Stewart for Doctor.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Game_boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:45 pm UTC

iamspen wrote:I'm voting Patrick Stewart for Doctor.


Moffat will not allow a Doctor who can't be fawned over on Tumblr
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:51 pm UTC

Are you saying people can't fawn over Patrick Stewart?? What universe do you live in?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby iamspen » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:54 pm UTC

Yeah, as I recall, an instagram of Patrick Stewart (P-Stew?) eating a slice of pizza just made the actual news.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ameretrifle » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:55 pm UTC

Game_boy wrote:
iamspen wrote:I'm voting Patrick Stewart for Doctor.


Moffat will not allow a Doctor who can't be fawned over on Tumblr

You say that like it disqualifies him or something.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:40 am UTC

My favourites of the suggestions I've seen are David Thewlis, Helena Bonham Carter, and Robert Carlyle.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Sytri » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:43 am UTC

What about Tilda Swinton? I think she'd be quite cool and she's a good actress too. I really hope it is a woman this time though, I think it's about time.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:30 pm UTC

Sytri wrote:What about Tilda Swinton? I think she'd be quite cool and she's a good actress too. I really hope it is a woman this time though, I think it's about time.

Sod her being a woman FINALLY GINGER!!!
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:56 pm UTC

keozen wrote:
Sytri wrote:What about Tilda Swinton? I think she'd be quite cool and she's a good actress too. I really hope it is a woman this time though, I think it's about time.

Sod her being a woman FINALLY GINGER!!!

Why not both?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:35 pm UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
keozen wrote:
Sytri wrote:What about Tilda Swinton? I think she'd be quite cool and she's a good actress too. I really hope it is a woman this time though, I think it's about time.

Sod her being a woman FINALLY GINGER!!!

Why not both?

Absolutely! And make that the joke - have her dance around the console room or wherever going "Yes! I'm finally ginger!" and then just a brief "Oh, female this time?" in the middle.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:36 pm UTC

Where is it canon that the doctor can become female?
I'd support it, I'd love to see a girl in the role, but I'm /sure/ that The Doctor is canonically male. Unless we're talking about "Argh, long hair, I'm a girl?!" which in my mind was just Smith/Eleven being Smith/Eleven...
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:08 am UTC

ConMan wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:
keozen wrote:
Sytri wrote:What about Tilda Swinton? I think she'd be quite cool and she's a good actress too. I really hope it is a woman this time though, I think it's about time.

Sod her being a woman FINALLY GINGER!!!

Why not both?

Absolutely! And make that the joke - have her dance around the console room or wherever going "Yes! I'm finally ginger!" and then just a brief "Oh, female this time?" in the middle.

Absolutely epic!

Sadly with Steven Moffat at the helm I don't see it happening. I can just barely see Steven Moffat going for a female Doctor Who, but he lacks the subtlety to do something so epic as not making a big deal out of it.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby phlip » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:45 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:Where is it canon that the doctor can become female?

There was a line as an aside in The Doctor's Wife...
See that snake? The mark of the Corsair. Fantastic bloke. He had that snake as a tattoo in every regeneration. Didn't feel like himself without the tattoo. Or herself, a couple of times. Ooh, she was a bad girl!
Other than that, I don't think it's been mentioned either way, to my memory (which certainly isn't complete).

Also: yeah, Moffat is many things, but "subtle" isn't really one of them.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:54 am UTC

phlip wrote:
Joeldi wrote:Where is it canon that the doctor can become female?

There was a line as an aside in The Doctor's Wife...
See that snake? The mark of the Corsair. Fantastic bloke. He had that snake as a tattoo in every regeneration. Didn't feel like himself without the tattoo. Or herself, a couple of times. Ooh, she was a bad girl!
Other than that, I don't think it's been mentioned either way, to my memory (which certainly isn't complete).

The Eleventh Doctor momentarily thought he was a girl after the last regeneration, because he had longer hair than the Tenth Doctor.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:57 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:Where is it canon that the doctor can become female?
I'd support it, I'd love to see a girl in the role, but I'm /sure/ that The Doctor is canonically male. Unless we're talking about "Argh, long hair, I'm a girl?!" which in my mind was just Smith/Eleven being Smith/Eleven...


In the Doctor's Wife, a reference is made to the Corsair having both male and female bodies. There've also been instances in the novels. IIRC the implication has been that this was because of their personality (their inherent personality common across all regenerations that is) and not just luck of the dice. As such, doing it for the doctor could retcon in a genderfluid identity which would be a significant change (and one which would probably lead to widespread outrage from the daily mail et al).

Furthermore I am certain that, given current head writers it would be badly done (even moreso than a newly introduced female timelord).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby shieldforyoureyes » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:48 pm UTC

Tilda Swinton would be amazing. I can easily imagine her being as good in the role as Baker or Tennant.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Dracomax » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:41 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:
ConMan wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:
keozen wrote:
Sytri wrote:What about Tilda Swinton? I think she'd be quite cool and she's a good actress too. I really hope it is a woman this time though, I think it's about time.

Sod her being a woman FINALLY GINGER!!!

Why not both?

Absolutely! And make that the joke - have her dance around the console room or wherever going "Yes! I'm finally ginger!" and then just a brief "Oh, female this time?" in the middle.

Absolutely epic!

Sadly with Steven Moffat at the helm I don't see it happening. I can just barely see Steven Moffat going for a female Doctor Who, but he lacks the subtlety to do something so epic as not making a big deal out of it.

Actually, I can picture this--Ginger! I'm finally ginger!
*looks down* Oh, those are new.
*Looks at hair*
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Zohar » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

I just started watching series 3 (Tennant after Rose left, to clarify). I sort of like it, but I wonder - are there any "good" episodes? Pretty much every single episode up until now has been "See the wonderful universe! Oh no, aliens! They're going to kill us all!!!" (I'm not sure if I should put a period after the quotation marks so I put these parentheses and then it's obvious. See? Period --> ).
The stories are interesting, for the most past. I really liked Rose, I kind of like Martha and hope she stays for a while, but it's all so negative... I mean, the Doctor is always optimistic, but generally it seems to be all about how you should be afraid of travel and weird things and everything's out to kill you.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby sparkyb » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:16 pm UTC

It is hard to really answer your question without giving too many spoilers, but I'll say a few things. "Blink" is a series 3 episode that I think is my overall favorite episode so far. I don't remember too much else about series 3 because it was a long time ago that I saw it. Without spoiling too badly how or when companions leave, we're several companions and a new doctor past Tennant + Martha. Also, the show runner changed after series 4 which was a pretty big change (it is now Steven Moffat, writing of some of my favorite series 1-3 episode like "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances", "Girl in the Fireplace", and "Blink"). So even if you don't like the show right now compared to the first 2 seasons, keep with it because it will definitely change and you might like it more. Also, it seems to be the pattern that after a change of companion there tends to be more lighter one-off episodes about exploring different parts of the galaxy or Earth history. They just want to establish the character and unique relationship with the Doctor before getting back to larger, more serious plot arcs.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:31 pm UTC

Also be sure to not miss the specials, they have some of the best episodes. Plus more or Rose.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:59 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I just started watching series 3 (Tennant after Rose left, to clarify). I sort of like it, but I wonder - are there any "good" episodes? Pretty much every single episode up until now has been "See the wonderful universe! Oh no, aliens! They're going to kill us all!!!" (I'm not sure if I should put a period after the quotation marks so I put these parentheses and then it's obvious. See? Period --> ).
The stories are interesting, for the most past. I really liked Rose, I kind of like Martha and hope she stays for a while, but it's all so negative... I mean, the Doctor is always optimistic, but generally it seems to be all about how you should be afraid of travel and weird things and everything's out to kill you.

There are a few episodes where there's more of a focus on "amazing universe" than on "terrible aliens/people". There are also quite a few where the enemy is defeated by something other than the Doctor being brilliant or taking advantage of their hubris or whatever, including to some extent the series 3 finale (dodgy as it is in places). Series 3 has the problem that Martha is a bit of an iffy companion for the first half or so since it feels like she's playing too much of a "replacement Rose" role rather than getting to be a unique character; by comparison, series 4 has some wonderful Doctor/companion moments because of all the running jokes where they have to keep denying that they're anything but travelling companions.

Some of the episodes you can look forward to are Blink (series 3), Partners in Crime, and most of the last half of series 4, and most of the specials between the series 4 finale and Tennant's exit. I won't say that they break the pattern you've noticed, but they have a lot to offer.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Zohar » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:57 am UTC

I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep watching, just that there's some inconsistencies between the Doctor saying "wow that's awesome!" and everything else saying "exterminate!"

Blink is something I've known about for a while, it's pretty famous and people recommended I just start with that episode and *then* if I like it go back to the 9th Doctor. From the 1st episode of S3, I rather like Martha. She's much more book-smart than Rose, studying to be a doctor herself. I hope they'll make use of that.

One thing I specifically like is how casual people of color and mixed-race couples are in this show. I suppose it has a lot to do with being set in the UK. I remember in the S2 Christmas special when they get to the wedding reception there's a shot of people dancing and one couple was just two guys dancing together, but there was no emphasis on it, it was just part of the scenery, that was great.

I know Moffat took the reigns of the show at some point and a lot of people really dislike it. We'll see how I feel about it then, no need to discuss it right now when I haven't a clue.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:13 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I know Moffat took the reigns of the show at some point and a lot of people really dislike it. We'll see how I feel about it then, no need to discuss it right now when I haven't a clue.


Moffat's taken some aspects of the show back toward what they used to be in the old series, to mixed reviews - it's different enough that some people who see the Davies/Tennant version as the definitive Doctor Who aren't too keen on it, but you'll want to draw your own conclusions...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ameretrifle » Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Moffat's taken some aspects of the show back toward what they used to be in the old series

This is the first time I have ever heard his direction characterized that way. Could I ask exactly which aspects you mean?


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