Doctor Whom

[Sableagle]

I personally love Torchwood a little but more than Doctor who, if you haven't seen it you DEFIANTLY should.

I am not disputing that fans of Doctor Who should see Torchwood at all. I merely wish to enquire: if defiance of whom should they see it?

Also, I wish to post a spoiler: it was Colonel Mustard, in the pantry, with the candlestick.

[Jorpho]

So, was I the only one expecting the plot to be:

Spoiler:

You find out at the end that this whole world and mad scheme was a fantasy world made up by the gemstone which explained why no one recognised him, why no one noticed all the people with massive scars over their faces and why the journalist woman appeared in his life the exact time he'd got the stone in. So he beats the plot, the stone 'passes' and then it finishes off with him meeting a new girl and realising that you can have happiness without the powers.

I was expecting something a little more modest, like

Spoiler:

only the journalist being a creation of the stone

but indeed, there are still chances to revisit this one.

Spoiler:

Also, the squeezing of the toy as an interrogation technique? Ridiculous.

It would not at all be out of keeping with the series if it turns out that

Spoiler:

the toy is in fact a sentient lifeform somehow

.

[Mutex]

Just don't overlap the tags and it should be fine.

As for the episode, did anyone else momentarily think after the doctor said it would "pass", that the guy had been passing and re-swallowing the gem the entire time?

I thought that the plot was going to be the Doctor waiting for the boy to poop out the gem and then going on his merry way. I suppose an entire episode of the Doctor feeding a small child laxatives would have been a bit weird, and not particularly Christmassy.

[charliepanayi]

So, Capaldi is leaving, who will be next?

[HES]

A woman? They've certainly been setting up for it.

Also link

[Flumble]

So, Capaldi is leaving, who will be next?

The new companion (will be the next one to leave).

To me it's useless to speculate, but thanks for bumping the topic, because I totally forgot to watch the christmas episode.

Capaldi shocked fans by making the announcement during a BBC Radio 2 show with presenter Jo Whiley.

What kind of fans don't expect a Doctor to leave after 3 seasons? Or were they shocked to know they were actually listening to an interview on Radio 2?

[rmsgrey]

Capaldi shocked fans by making the announcement during a BBC Radio 2 show with presenter Jo Whiley.

What kind of fans don't expect a Doctor to leave after 3 seasons? Or were they shocked to know they were actually listening to an interview on Radio 2?

What kind of fans didn't already know Capaldi was leaving about the same time as Moffat at the end of the upcoming season? Or were they shocked that it hadn't already been officially announced?

[Liri]

So, Capaldi is leaving, who will be next?

The new companion (will be the next one to leave).

To me it's useless to speculate, but thanks for bumping the topic, because I totally forgot to watch the christmas episode.

Capaldi shocked fans by making the announcement during a BBC Radio 2 show with presenter Jo Whiley.

What kind of fans don't expect a Doctor to leave after 3 seasons? Or were they shocked to know they were actually listening to an interview on Radio 2?

I came into it during David's reign (started at the "top" with Chris). When I got up to David, I kinda expected it to last forever.

I was also super excited for Peter but I only watched his first season because I forgot and I've not gone back to catch up.

[WibblyWobbly]

So, Capaldi is leaving, who will be next?

I haven't been watching as much since Capaldi took over (something seems not quite right, but maybe I just need to give it more of a chance), but I looked at the BBC article on possible successors, and I do think it would be great for a woman to take over. From their list, I'd probably like to see Hayley Atwell (I rather liked "Agent Carter") or Olivia Colman. I admit to having a hard time seeing Emma Watson as The Doctor. Barring a woman, Ben Whishaw seems like an obvious choice, but David Harewood could also be good. And I do like Tim Roth. Richard Ayoade might be fun, but I'm not sure I see him in it.

I think it would be interesting if we could get Idris Elba interested. Imagine John Luther as The Doctor.

[rmsgrey]

I haven't been watching as much since Capaldi took over (something seems not quite right, but maybe I just need to give it more of a chance)

Capaldi's been great as the Doctor, but the stories have been pretty hit-and-miss...

[WibblyWobbly]

I haven't been watching as much since Capaldi took over (something seems not quite right, but maybe I just need to give it more of a chance)

Capaldi's been great as the Doctor, but the stories have been pretty hit-and-miss...

I have to think that's exactly what it is. I've always liked Capaldi, but the stories aren't catching my attention like they used to. Either the writing is stagnating, or I'm aging out of Doctor Who. I think it's the former, because I still love Nine and Ten.

[Liri]

I haven't been watching as much since Capaldi took over (something seems not quite right, but maybe I just need to give it more of a chance)

Capaldi's been great as the Doctor, but the stories have been pretty hit-and-miss...

I have to think that's exactly what it is. I've always liked Capaldi, but the stories aren't catching my attention like they used to. Either the writing is stagnating, or I'm aging out of Doctor Who. I think it's the former, because I still love Nine and Ten.

I think they really amped things up too much with Eleven. They were constantly having to clear higher hurdles of the whole universe being at stake. It didn't leave 12 much room to do anything.

[charliepanayi]

Also, TV shows invariably get stale when they've been running for over a decade. Maybe the new showrunner will help.

[Mutex]

I think they really amped things up too much with Eleven. They were constantly having to clear higher hurdles of the whole universe being at stake. It didn't leave 12 much room to do anything.

They turned it up to 11?

[Jorpho]

By the way, have any of you tuned into Class? Worth watching at all? Eight episodes is a low time commitment, at least.

I wound up watching part of an episode one night and it seemed suitably Who-ish.

[flicky1991]

I liked it a lot. I was thinking it might be too much like "Torchwood with teenagers", considering that I knew it was going to have sex scenes, but it's more like "Doctor Who but not kid-friendly", in my opinion.

[rmsgrey]

I'm in favour of describing Class as "the closest we've yet come to a British Buffy".

[flicky1991]

Information just revealed about the new companion Bill, not sure if it counts as a spoiler since it's everywhere and is apparently going to be mentioned in her second line of dialogue.

Spoiler:

She's gay. In fact, she's being promoted as the first openly gay companion - I guess Jack was more bi/pan than gay, and Vastra and Jenny aren't really companions. And the "openly" in the wording is great, since it acknowledges that characters living in less liberal eras might have been gay without us knowing.

As for how good this will be for the show and the character... we'll have to wait and see. I know some people take issue with the way Moffat writes women and LGBT characters, but he's definitely steering the show into a direction where pretty soon it won't even be unusual for a character to be gay, and I'm happy about that.

[OP Tipping]

Introduction episodes are often a bit awkward. I suspect that the title of the season opener, "The Pilot", is a winking reference to the fact that they are looking to soft-reboot the series. The mystery of Gallifrey has gone and a new maguffin is required.

I don't mind Billy, I dare say she'll grow on me. Nardole? (draws air between teeth) I dunno, he's a bit of a one note opera. The Pilot was entertaining enough but not earth-shattering. There were enough nostalgic references to make one say ooh (Movellans!), and enough sadness to make one say aah (Clara's theme).

As usual they gave too much away in the COMING SOON section at the end! I should know better than to watch them.

[rmsgrey]

I'm hoping Heather will recur, and I'm generally taking a "wait-see" approach to Bill.

[Clix]

I'm going to spoiler this, while I don't think I'm giving anything away for those who haven't seen it yet, better to be safe.

Spoiler:

I liked Bill, a throw back companion that hopefully doesn't become an enigma story arc. I've already seen fan theories thrown about that she is either the granddaughter of, or Susan regenerated. I also liked rather then falling right into "It's bigger on the inside" awe mode she draws conclusions based on her experience. "It's a walk through" If her character growth continues on the same trajectory I think she'll be a great companion.

Nardole, what to make of him? Will he be the interpreter of the Doctor to others? That seemed to be one of Clara's roles. With her off running the space-time continuum with Me did Moffat feel the need to keep someone in that role? I don't know, there might be more. Anyone that River Song would keep as an assistant had to be more then just the comic relief.

The Doctor; can we have just a little bit of the grumpiness back please? And dump the thrash version of Beethoven's Fifth. It's being overworked. Otherwise it was great to see him again. Like coming across an old friend.

I'm tempted to say "Monster of the Week." Liked the time/space traveling ship motor oil aspect. The relationship between Bill and Heather takes it a little out of that standard classification. I thought it jumped from the flirting stage to the full commitment stage without much behind it, but when Moffat wants to get somewhere sometimes he rushes. Maybe a little too many throw backs, but I did go "Awe" when I saw the picture of River and Susan on his desk. All and all I enjoyed it. We'll see how it stands up to a second watching.

edited for word usage

[Soupspoon]

Just seen The Pilot myself.

Thusly, just for those still yet behind my tardi(nes)s...

Spoiler:

On the episode plot:
Had convinced myself at one point that Bill's mysterious mother had been the original Pilot, and the "we have found the Pilot" is the whatever-it-was seeing the daughter as the (lost/misplaced/absconded) mother. Because of this, the taking of Heather as the Pilot and (re)designation of Bill as the Passenger jolted me. Maybe my fault for second-guessing and extrapolating.

Lucas seems to now be firmly ensconced as playing the comedic parts of the K-9 role, without the hyper-efficient aspects of the "laser shooting dog thing". So I'm choosing to consider Nardole as a version of K-9, or perhaps a Red Dwarf scutter (not even pre-repair Kryten level), with the voice doing the job of the two-fingered salute gesture when push comes to shove.

That's one heckuva powerful spaceship engine-oil stuff. Amazing how many time/space traversal methods there are, available to all. Timecops and modern (post-Time War, Galifreyless) proliferations, aside, remember when the Daleks first got their Time Controller..?

On the series/season's promise:
Series arc (potentially multi-series, outlasting the Twelfth incarnation) is that there Vault.

#12 has been babysitting it for (at least) 70 years. He must be happy to have found a companion.

Backing away from the "companion as love interest", again. Rose was rose. Jack a possible side-fling. Martha was a crush. Donna notably just "a mate" (Wilfred was very much her proxy, Jenny was 'family'). Astrid could have been something much more. Amy and Rory were the in-laws, given River became the wife. Clara was made a soul mate due to that timestream thing. With things to be said about Elizabeth I (and X?), that girl in the fireplace, Nefertiti, apparently Marilyn Monroe (staying off-screen, unlike Liz One) and a clearly smitten Osgood (and even Malcolm, come to that), at least to classic-era Sarah Jane levels of the infatuation.
Anyway, I think we're safe to say we're looking at (a less annoying) Donna-like platonic companion, a better and more consistent version to Craig Owens' enthusiasm, but perhaps a bit of a Lady Christina level of intelligence (though not criminality) behind her, like all the better companions (includes uneducated-but-not-unintelligent Rose; Donna has her moments; DoctorDonna is of course cheating) really must have. (Leela, from the classic era, was like Rose. Uneducated, but had the smarts and the moves when it counted.)

I still think Bill's mother is Significant.

In the "in future episodes" epilogistic-prelude at the end, I noticed retro-retro-Cybermen. The Mondas-types (with First Doctor early-installment-weirdness in the costumery), rather than the more classical Telos-types or the post-millenial Pete'sWorld ones.

There's more, but I got distracted, after getting too far into the details. I'll let the above be sufficient comment, for the time being.

[Jorpho]

Did anyone else start thinking of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency? I haven't seen the TV adapations, including "Shada", which is supposedly the Dr. Who incarnation. But so many of the elements are there: the eccentric professor, the impossible furniture, the walkthrough-where-there-wasn't, the sentient leftover spaceship component. Could just be a coincidence, I guess.

[Soupspoon]

I did. But unless Stephen Mangan pops up, later in the series, I am willing to dismiss it as a set of coincident situation tropes.

[OP Tipping]

Well Oxygen was a good episode. The first four eps of season 10 were a bit ho-hum, certainly disappointing after a top-notch season 9.

[flicky1991]

Well Oxygen was a good episode. The first four eps of season 10 were a bit ho-hum, certainly disappointing after a top-notch season 9.

Wow, really? I've thought everything in series 10 has been great so far (although Knock Knock was a little worse than the rest). And it's hard to compete with season 9!

[Soupspoon]

Well Oxygen was a good episode. The first four eps of season 10 were a bit ho-hum, certainly disappointing after a top-notch season 9.

Wow, really? I've thought everything in series 10 has been great so far (although Knock Knock was a little worse than the rest). And it's hard to compete with season 9!

I think it'll depend highly upon the viewer.

Noting that I haven't yet seen Oxygen (but know that it's a ?future?-space setting) and I don't intend to spoil things myself in the following (so vaguer than I want to be), we've seen contemporary-Earth with out-of-place-tech for Pilot, then future-colony-gone-wrong, then historic-Earth-with-bad-humans-and-alien-lifeform, then contemporary-Earth-with-historic-oddness.

It's bouncing around settings and the nature of the threat. Even the reason for sticking with the encounter, with Knock Knock being a "trapped"-type plotline (once initially drawn in), but ?Ice? being a "we don't have to solve this, but I must" kind. I don't yet know if Oxygen will have the Impossible Planet "this is why we have to solve it" reason, the one from Waters Of Mars or it's something of a Smile/Girl In The Fireplace "threat to those not already directly involved. And, depending upon the viewer, some people like the "hey ho, two battling factions in a quarry, to Whom I must brimg peace" story, whilst others favour the "existential threat to humanity at an important juncture" one, and yet others want to see Midnight-type episodes at least once a season, if not alternating episodes!

Personally, I found good points and not-so in all the latest episodes. Nothing 'classic' (old-classic, anyway, Ice was 'new-classic' if anything was, and Smile could have almost been Rose Tyler's early/late jaunt adventures with a few minor updatws, and I imagine they had to try hard to distance the visuals from The Girl Who Waited, though it clearly lacked the timey-wimey depths) I found the bouncing around of the tone of the Vault arc-snippets most disconcerting, so far. Obviously building up to something, but one showing I'm assuming some sort of Cyberised monster is battling to get out, another it seems that the occupant is benign-yet-occasionally-contrary. Half expecting Pandorica parallels, on this latter point alone. Including that it's the next regeneration, somehow sitting there bored out of hisk/her) skull for reasons that will have to be explained. Or the actual solution to why Twelve looks like at least two Earth people...

[Jorpho]

I agree, it's been a bit ho-hum so far. At least there haven't been any more electric gorram eels. Gah.

[Soupspoon]

No comments for Extremis, yet? How about some not-spoilers-until-you-already-know comments, then....?

Someone forgot to create distributive salts. Object identification as part of the mix would have done. And, going back to my vault guesses, I was within touching distance! Not bang on, but there's that near miss you'd clearly have to acknowledge.

Plus bedroom fun... (The following might tip over into five-seconds-into-the-future spoiling. So adding a little extra protection.)

Spoiler:

...if you have truly catholic tastes. But I'm not sure everybody was comfortable with the added pontification.

[Flumble]

No comments for Extremis, yet?

I'm awaiting part two.
It felt like one half of the time was the episode and the other half was the setup for the next episode(s) -both chopped up and interleaved.

near miss

you monster

[Jorpho]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine_escape

A slightly unsatisfying deus ex machina, but hardly the worst offender. (See above.)

[rmsgrey]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine_escape

A slightly unsatisfying deus ex machina, but hardly the worst offender. (See above.)

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a lot of point in allowing a simulation to interact with the external world...

[Flumble]

...unless...

Spoiler:

the simulation was actually created by the Doctor and the only sensible output from the program was the simulated Doctor's recording.

[Soupspoon]

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a lot of point in allowing a simulation to interact with the external world...

If Mr Garibaldi can do it, The Doctor can

...unless...

But does it unerringly reveal if the universe halts?

[rmsgrey]

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be a lot of point in allowing a simulation to interact with the external world...

If Mr Garibaldi can do it, The Doctor can

True - they're both pretty great hackers, but having that facility around in the first place is pretty silly. Why even hook an external communication dev- Okay, ability to scan the internet to gather raw data does make sense...

[Flumble]

But does it unerringly reveal if the universe halts?

I think it would fail if it includes the Master's paradox machine.

[Link]

The Pyramid at the End of the World:

Spoiler:

A couple of really big problems with this one:

• So you're incredibly hung over, and are about to vomit in your hazmat suit. But every other trial has been totally safe to humans, so you decide to take off your hood. Stupid, but believable. Then you see a plant reduced to slime in less than a second. Dam son, what do? Quickly put the hood back on and voluntarily quarantine yourself? Nah! Let's grab a sample -- still not wearing the hood, mind -- and take it outside the bloody containment area in an open container! How did this moron ever make it through university?
• A big point is that this bacterium kills all life, not just humans. I guess Time Lords no longer qualify as life. Hell, even Nardole thought he would be fine because he's not human, but logically having any organic parts should be a reason to worry.
• Next up, the air conditioning. Venting the lab to the atmosphere every thirty minutes is one thing. Continuing to do so when the (highly automated and modern) lab is in lockdown because of a biohazard (which, given the nature of the research, could easily be airborne) is stupid. Additionally having no way to disable the automated system manually in such events is utterly, utterly moronic.
• A blast-proof door that can only be unlocked from the inside, with a nonstandard lock? Let me guess, this was designed by the same guy who made the venting system. OK, so the doors don't unlock automatically during lockdown. That's fine. But then, allowing someone in the dangerous section to break the confinement using only a four-digit code is stupid. And why the fuck would you use a roller system instead of a bog-standard keypad? Again, moronic.
• If I recall correctly, Douglas' gooey remains were outside of this blast area, right?
• "Bill, remember when you asked about regeneration? It's what happens when a Time Lord dies. We don't really die, we just change our appearance. I will be fine, one way or another. Whatever you do, don't consent!" -- what the Doctor should have said, but didn't.

[HES]

To add to that,

Spoiler:

airlock doors that both open at the same time.

No wonder the lab was on a watchlist

[Jorpho]

Yes, there's a lot of wacky fridge logic in that one. Like,

Spoiler:

Shouldn't the lock be operable by a blind person, i.e. someone who just had a nasty accident and got something in the eyes, and/or all over the mask of the hazmat suit?
Why is there a combination lock there in the first place? (Maybe if someone breaks in, and security needs to lock them up somewhere temporarily..?)
Why would the sonic screwdriver suddenly be incapable of opening this particular lock?
Would it really require the Doctor to figure out "We'll solve the problem by making it go boom!"

But eh, they did a good job with the dramatic tension. And it's not like they could include all the boneheaded design decisions in that opening montage.

[rmsgrey]

One that irked me:

Spoiler:

- Luckily for Erica, going into an adjacent room provides full decontamination so it was safe for her to take off her hood.